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Home › Society › Politics › War in Ukraine › Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Started by Charles Ross3 · · 👁 756 views · 9.2K replies

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Participants Charles Ross3rowdytiger13electrichawk94nimblemoose2Noah Ward2George Robinson43Larry Wilson25Larry Walker24Amanda Allen4Noah Sanchez2Paul Thomas46Jessica Peterson2Nancy Gomez26Nathan Evans78William Anderson5electricsurfer47gentlestag15wiredseal7Thomas Nelson25Donna Harris11Nicholas WatsonJack Kelly5Carol Johnson21Kate Cook27 …
Kate Cook27 Kate Cook27 Regular
557 messages
joined Jun 2022
#4881 ·
Jessica Peterson2 said:It was precisely because of Gorbachev that he went on to trigger all those subsequent conflicts and wars.

Armed conflicts in the Baltic states following their declarations of independence (ethnic Russian uprisings followed by Soviet military intervention).

1989. Uzbekistan within the USSR. Massacres of ethnic Meshetian Turks and their subsequent expulsion.

It’s been constant. Armed clashes in Kyrgyzstan vs. Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan vs. Tajikistan, along with continuous ethnic strife in those regions.

- 1987-... Azerbaijan vs. Armenia. Ethnic cleansing in both countries. The creation of the unrecognized Republic of Nagorno-Karabakh, the occupation of parts of Azerbaijan by Armenia, and the ongoing de-occupation efforts regarding the "Republic of Nagorno-Karabakh."

- 1989. Uzbekistan within the USSR. Massacres of ethnic Meshetian Turks and their subsequent expulsion.

- 1989-1992. Moldova vs. the self-proclaimed PNR: Russians, Russian "volunteers," and the Russian military. The creation of the unrecognized PMR.

- 1990. Massacre of Uzbeks in Osh (Kyrgyzstan within the USSR).

- 1990-1997. Civil war in Tajikistan. A ceasefire was eventually signed.

- 1990-1992. Moldova vs. the ethnic Gagauz and "volunteers" from Transnistria. It ended relatively peacefully.

- 1991-1996. Russia vs. Chechnya. The creation of the unrecognized Chechen Republic of Ichkeria.

- 1992. Armed internal conflict in Ingushetia vs. South Ossetia.

- 1992-2008. Georgia vs. the self-proclaimed Abkhazia: Abkhazians and Russian "volunteers." The creation of the unrecognized Republic of Abkhazia.

- 1992-2008. Georgia vs. the self-proclaimed Abkhazia: Abkhazians and Russian "volunteers." The creation of the unrecognized Republic of South Ossetia.

- 1999-2009. Russia vs. Chechnya. Chechnya's return to the Russian Federation, though in reality, the conflict persisted until 2017.

- 2008. Russia vs. Georgia. Russia occupied about 20% of Georgian territory and subsequently recognized the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

- 2014. Russia vs. Ukraine. Occupation and annexation of Crimea by Russia. The creation of the unrecognized LPR and DPR in the Donbas region of Ukraine.

2022-... Russia vs. Ukraine. Still ongoing.

Great post. Honestly, I wasn't even aware of some of these conflicts. It seems like the biggest mistakes made by the West were regarding Moldova and Georgia. I was watching this program recently where a guest was tearing into Europe—basically asking how they could act so shocked when Vladimir Putin launched the war in Ukraine. Meanwhile, you have these breakaway states sitting right there in Moldova and Georgia. It’s not even about whether anyone besides Russia recognizes them or not; they exist, they function, and they're a reality on the ground. The issue is that the actual sovereign states don't have control over their own territory. Then you look at Crimea and the DPR—it's the same pattern. The West reacts by calling for a ceasefire, but they never actually solve the underlying problem. You end up with a country in Europe that has lost control over its entire territory, and yet everyone acted completely blindsided on February 24th. I remember someone commenting on this: "I don't get why they're so surprised, considering they've had several breakaway states around for thirty years or more."
Sure, calling everything that’s been happening in Ukraine since 2014 just a "civil war" was a massive mistake—but hey, whatever. It happened.
Look, there was so much confusion back in 2014—everything felt incredibly murky. You had the authorities in Kyiv launching these "anti-terrorist operations," while the folks fighting for the LPR LNR Novorossiya were pushing for goals that weren't exactly clear to everyone. Then you had the Russians claiming they only had volunteers on the ground, yet actual soldiers were showing up complaining that their leave had been canceled—some guys even mentioned having their honeymoon plans completely trashed. It was total chaos. And honestly, the brainwashing was real; I remember later on, those DPR militias weren't even trying to hide the fact that they were shelling occupied areas, yet people just seemed to tune it out entirely.
Whatever the case, they’ve created this massive divide—one that’s become even more obvious since February 24th. I remember back when people were being sorted by whether they were loyal to Moscow or Kyiv. People were being killed for no reason at all. There are huge rifts within families now, too; this whole war has basically turned brother against brother. I actually know brothers who are fighting on opposite sides. How does anyone heal from that? I honestly don't know. If things had just stayed as they were, life would be better for everyone. We'd have some kind of peace, but here we are. In my opinion, the biggest blame lies with the local traitors—specifically those folks in the Donbas holding official positions. They are the ultimate traitors and the ones most to blame.
boldotter2 boldotter2 Active Member
156 messages
joined Mar 2020
#4882 ·
Jessica Peterson2 said:It was precisely because of Gorbachev that he went on to trigger all those subsequent conflicts and wars.

Armed conflicts in the Baltic states following their declarations of independence (ethnic Russian uprisings followed by Soviet military intervention).

1989. Uzbekistan within the USSR. Massacres of ethnic Meshetian Turks and their subsequent expulsion.

It’s been constant. Armed clashes in Kyrgyzstan vs. Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan vs. Tajikistan, along with continuous ethnic strife in those regions.

- 1987-... Azerbaijan vs. Armenia. Ethnic cleansing in both countries. The creation of the unrecognized Republic of Nagorno-Karabakh, the occupation of parts of Azerbaijan by Armenia, and the ongoing de-occupation efforts regarding the "Republic of Nagorno-Karabakh."

- 1989. Uzbekistan within the USSR. Massacres of ethnic Meshetian Turks and their subsequent expulsion.

- 1989-1992. Moldova vs. the self-proclaimed PNR: Russians, Russian "volunteers," and the Russian military. The creation of the unrecognized PMR.

- 1990. Massacre of Uzbeks in Osh (Kyrgyzstan within the USSR).

- 1990-1997. Civil war in Tajikistan. A ceasefire was eventually signed.

- 1990-1992. Moldova vs. the ethnic Gagauz and "volunteers" from Transnistria. It ended relatively peacefully.

- 1991-1996. Russia vs. Chechnya. The creation of the unrecognized Chechen Republic of Ichkeria.

- 1992. Armed internal conflict in Ingushetia vs. South Ossetia.

- 1992-2008. Georgia vs. the self-proclaimed Abkhazia: Abkhazians and Russian "volunteers." The creation of the unrecognized Republic of Abkhazia.

- 1992-2008. Georgia vs. the self-proclaimed Abkhazia: Abkhazians and Russian "volunteers." The creation of the unrecognized Republic of South Ossetia.

- 1999-2009. Russia vs. Chechnya. Chechnya's return to the Russian Federation, though in reality, the conflict persisted until 2017.

- 2008. Russia vs. Georgia. Russia occupied about 20% of Georgian territory and subsequently recognized the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

- 2014. Russia vs. Ukraine. Occupation and annexation of Crimea by Russia. The creation of the unrecognized LPR and DPR in the Donbas region of Ukraine.

2022-... Russia vs. Ukraine. Still ongoing.

Looking at everything listed here, I think we could totally fit this one in there too, if you look at it from today's perspective...

- 1990-1999. Former America.

The outbreak of open war in America happened right as the USSR was falling apart. Maybe the rise of nationalism in Mexico and the violence in Mexico during the 80s also fits perfectly into the story where the USSR loses its grip in Afghanistan and globally, and then tries to make up for it by ramping up influence in America after Marshall passed away.
The way Slobodan Maddox and the American People's Army operated seems scary similar to Russian methods—it feels like more than just a coincidence!
Matthew Young35 Matthew Young35 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Jan 2018
#4883 ·
boldotter2 said:Looking at everything listed here, I think we could totally fit this one in there too, if you look at it from today's perspective...

- 1990-1999. Former America.

The outbreak of open war in America happened right as the USSR was falling apart. Maybe the rise of nationalism in Mexico and the violence in Mexico during the 80s also fits perfectly into the story where the USSR loses its grip in Afghanistan and globally, and then tries to make up for it by ramping up influence in America after Marshall passed away.
The way Slobodan Maddox and the American People's Army operated seems scary similar to Russian methods—it feels like more than just a coincidence!

Post-1948, Russia had virtually no influence in America.
They don't have much today either, aside from some media support over in Mexico City.
brightheron64 brightheron64 Regular
408 messages
joined Apr 2016
#4884 ·
Matthew Young35 said:Post-1948, Russia had virtually no influence in America.
They don't have much today either, aside from some media support over in Mexico City.

Well, that explains why we went with the MiG-21 instead of the Mirage III...
"Because it was cheaper!"
Jessica Peterson2 Jessica Peterson2 Active Member
214 messages
joined Sep 2008
#4885 ·
Here’s the latest verbal sparring from the modern-day American version of Joachim von Ribbentrop: if Moldova doesn't stop playing these geopolitical games to favor the West, we might just have to start addressing the "protection" of endangered Russian speakers. 🤦
Thomas Nelson25 Thomas Nelson25 Regular
582 messages
joined Jan 2021
#4886 ·
So, visas are happening after all... though getting that deposit through is proving to be a total pain.
And then you've got those guys starting their announced, bear-market nonsense—just messing around with the valve on the NS1
Nancy Gomez26 Nancy Gomez26 Regular
787 messages
joined Jan 2018
#4887 ·
steelheron25 said:It honestly seems more like Gorbachev simply lost his grip on the situation entirely.
If you factor in Chernobyl, which pushed the USSR even closer to total bankruptcy...
Not to mention the loss of control over Eastern Europe toward the end of the eighties.

We were lucky it ended the way it did. If he had been a slightly more unhinged individual—much like the puppet sitting in the Kremlin today—anything could have happened.

On the contrary, he didn't lose control. He simply realized that any military or other presence of the USSR within Warsaw Pact nations had become obsolete. He understood those relationships needed a total overhaul and a move toward entirely different frameworks. That led to the withdrawal from Europe; he essentially gave the political leadership in those countries a free hand to chart their own course toward a better tomorrow, letting them negotiate their own futures with their citizens. Everything else is just history. This man was looking at the future through a lens fundamentally different from his predecessors or those who followed him. Regarding that—all of Eastern Europe owes him a debt, and I expect several major streets in their cities to be named after him. That’s the view from Eastern Europe, anyway. We can also credit him with nuclear disarmament and the easing of the Cold War, though that's a separate discussion, even if both topics provide ample material for a Nobel Peace Prize. One could write volumes here, but we're drifting off-topic.
Now that we see how much suffering, pain, destruction, and death can result from the decisions of one small, narrow-minded, secret police bureaucrat in power—the life and work of Mikhail Sergeyevich seem even more monumental.
James Phillips92 James Phillips92 Active Member
216 messages
joined Aug 2013
#4888 ·
Matthew Young35 said:Post-1948, Russia had virtually no influence in America.
They don't have much today either, aside from some media support over in Mexico City.

Actually, they still hold significant weight in America—mostly through what's left of their economic ties and certain political circles.
silvermarlin56 silvermarlin56 Member
25 messages
joined Jun 2022
#4889 ·
This is gonna be a wild ride to watch. You gotta remember, about 30% of Estonia's population is Russian.
In places like Tallinn, that number jumps up to over 40%, and Russian is basically a second language there.
Honestly? I think they’ll stick by Putin way before they ever give up their lifestyle in the European Union, especially since their standard of living has skyrocketed over the last decade.
Brian Cruz63 Brian Cruz63 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Dec 2017
#4890 ·
Nancy Gomez26 said:On the contrary, he didn't lose control. He simply realized that any military or other presence of the USSR within Warsaw Pact nations had become obsolete. He understood those relationships needed a total overhaul and a move toward entirely different frameworks. That led to the withdrawal from Europe; he essentially gave the political leadership in those countries a free hand to chart their own course toward a better tomorrow, letting them negotiate their own futures with their citizens. Everything else is just history. This man was looking at the future through a lens fundamentally different from his predecessors or those who followed him. Regarding that—all of Eastern Europe owes him a debt, and I expect several major streets in their cities to be named after him. That’s the view from Eastern Europe, anyway. We can also credit him with nuclear disarmament and the easing of the Cold War, though that's a separate discussion, even if both topics provide ample material for a Nobel Peace Prize. One could write volumes here, but we're drifting off-topic.
Now that we see how much suffering, pain, destruction, and death can result from the decisions of one small, narrow-minded, secret police bureaucrat in power—the life and work of Mikhail Sergeyevich seem even more monumental.

Signed. Gorbachev understood that change was necessary and handled it without bloodshed or repression. He actually grasped the concept of republics within the USSR, unlike Putin, who is stuck in the Stone Age with that "wherever there are Russians, there is Russia" mindset.
casualcrane20 casualcrane20 Member
47 messages
joined Jan 2021
#4891 ·
steelheron25 said:A nuclear plant isn't exactly a light switch you can just flick off, is it? Even when a reactor is "shut down," you still have to keep cooling it for a very long time. And to maintain that cooling, you need electricity, which means you simply cannot detach it from the grid. Diesel generators are a last resort and have extremely limited capacity, especially for a massive facility like this—one with six reactors (by comparison, a site like the one near the Crater might only have one).
Similarly, you can't just plug it into a different grid; you need somewhere to send all that immense power being generated by so many reactors. If the only transmission lines available run toward Crimea and Russia, that's almost certainly nowhere near enough capacity.
Furthermore, the energy demands in Crimea are likely far too low to absorb everything that plant produces; they’d probably need to reroute the power into the Russian grid, assuming such transmission lines even exist in the first place. The plant and its surrounding infrastructure were designed specifically to feed the Ukrainian grid, not to export electricity to Russia, 186 miles let alone anything further afield.
There is no doubt that the long-term goal for the Russians is to divert power from the plant toward Crimea and into Russia, but achieving that requires an enormous amount of complex rerouting and switching. And how on earth are they supposed to pull all that off in the middle of a war zone while shells are flying everywhere?

It is madness, undeniably. However, I suspect the actual danger might be less severe than it appears at first glance. The reactors themselves are heavily fortified within concrete containment structures, and it would take quite a few direct hits to actually breach them. Besides, I assume the objective isn't to blow the reactors sky-high, but rather to disrupt operations and effectively force the plant to remain tied to the Ukrainian electrical system.

A reactor doesn't actually produce electricity; it produces steam to spin turbines. So, technically, stopping power production isn't the issue—you could just disconnect the windings, letting the turbines and generators spin idle. Then again, that's just my layman's take; an actual engineer could probably explain it better.
Donna Harris11 Donna Harris11 Active Member
164 messages
joined Oct 2018
#4892 ·
silvermarlin56 said:This is gonna be a wild ride to watch. You gotta remember, about 30% of Estonia's population is Russian.
In places like Tallinn, that number jumps up to over 40%, and Russian is basically a second language there.
Honestly? I think they’ll stick by Putin way before they ever give up their lifestyle in the European Union, especially since their standard of living has skyrocketed over the last decade.


Inflation in Estonia is hitting 25%, and you’ve got all these companies practically begging for exemptions from the sanctions against Russia.

Real life happens on the ground, while politicians just wander through the woods.
Noah Sanchez2 Noah Sanchez2 Member
33 messages
joined Jun 2022
#4893 ·
casualcrane20 said:A reactor doesn't actually produce electricity; it produces steam to spin turbines. So, technically, stopping power production isn't the issue—you could just disconnect the windings, letting the turbines and generators spin idle. Then again, that's just my layman's take; an actual engineer could probably explain it better.

It isn't quite that simple. If you kill the excitation, sure, the generators spin freely like you said, but you lose the load. For instance, if you have a 500MW generator, it needs a turbine capable of maybe 550MW (accounting for losses, these are just rough numbers), and that turbine needs steam at specific pressures and temperatures—say, delivering about 600MW of energy from the reactor to the turbine. Here's the catch: if you cut the excitation and the generator starts spinning idle, you still have 600MW of energy sitting in that superheated steam. That massive amount of energy has to go somewhere; it doesn't just vanish. You can't shut down a nuclear plant (or a coal or gas plant) just by flipping an "electrical" switch. You shut them down from the source where the energy is actually produced—by reducing the fuel consumption in a boiler or, in a nuclear plant, by inserting control rods made of boron steel to soak up free electrons and stop the fission process. Once thermal production drops, the steam pressure and temperature drop, the turbine slows down, the generator slows down, and eventually, the whole system settles enough to safely cut the excitation.

In the event of a major system failure, the generator does get disconnected immediately (excitation is cut and it's isolated from the grid), but at that exact same moment, all that superheated steam has to be vented into the atmosphere. It’s a deafening, violent event—something I've witnessed firsthand several times. Simultaneously, you have to cut the fuel to the boiler or, in a nuclear scenario, rapidly drop those control rods to halt fission while cooling systems kick in to bring the reactor temperature down over several days.

So, shutting down a standard fossil fuel plant is a complex operation, and with nuclear, the process is even more dangerous and significantly more complicated.
Noah Sanchez2 Noah Sanchez2 Member
33 messages
joined Jun 2022
#4894 ·
Saw this on the news. If it's true—and it probably is—it’s pretty grim. One day, someone's going to crack that concrete and see everything they tried to hide underneath.

https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/...ih%2F220831121
silvermarlin56 silvermarlin56 Member
25 messages
joined Jun 2022
#4895 ·
Donna Harris11 said:Inflation in Estonia is hitting 25%, and you’ve got all these companies practically begging for exemptions from the sanctions against Russia.

Real life happens on the ground, while politicians just wander through the woods.

Don't sweat it—I bet the Russians are also begging them to stop the invasion of Ukraine.
They aren't exactly thrilled either; imagine dealing with a massive 15% hike in John Deere equipment prices because of their own inflation.
And don't worry, nobody in Estonia is looking to pack up and leave... they’re perfectly happy staying in the EU even with this mess. Besides, they aren't exactly rushing to help their neighbors in Ukraine like some of the backwater towns here do. You've got places where 95% of the people speak Russian, yet they still go out of their way to honor Red Army monuments.🎉
Jesse Sanchez4 Jesse Sanchez4 Member
39 messages
joined Jul 2022
#4896 ·
I’m genuinely conflicted about this Ukrainian Sign my Rocket service (leaving out the link on purpose).

While some aspects might seem acceptable in a vacuum, other parts are nothing short of macabre:

You can commission a video featuring a VOG-17 grenade being dropped via a Mavic 3 drone.
They even let you slap a sticker on the grenade so it's clearly visible mid-air.
The footage captures everything: the custom text and image being mounted to the drone, the takeoff, and finally, the impact on a Russian Soldier.
They basically guarantee that your personalized VOG will find its mark; the operators will keep running the mission until they capture a direct hit on video.
Kate Cook27 Kate Cook27 Regular
557 messages
joined Jun 2022
#4897 ·
Jesse Sanchez4 said:I’m genuinely conflicted about this Ukrainian Sign my Rocket service (leaving out the link on purpose).

While some aspects might seem acceptable in a vacuum, other parts are nothing short of macabre:

You can commission a video featuring a VOG-17 grenade being dropped via a Mavic 3 drone.
They even let you slap a sticker on the grenade so it's clearly visible mid-air.
The footage captures everything: the custom text and image being mounted to the drone, the takeoff, and finally, the impact on a Russian Soldier.
They basically guarantee that your personalized VOG will find its mark; the operators will keep running the mission until they capture a direct hit on video.

Personally, I think this whole thing is totally unnecessary. It feels a bit like burning books by Russian authors—just pointless. Still, I get it—war changes your perspective. There are probably better ways to face reality without going down this route.

The real disaster seems to be looming, though. We're looking at massive food shortages in the occupied territories. They've actually already started seeing issues there 😢.
Jessica Peterson2 Jessica Peterson2 Active Member
214 messages
joined Sep 2008
#4898 ·
Putin's media outlets are constantly churning out these ecstatic little prophecies claiming Europeans are going to be shivering in frozen apartments next winter because they've lost access to Russian gas. It’s quite a spectacle, really. Yet, curiously enough, they don't seem to give a single damn about the fact that 40% of rural households and 30% of urban homes across the entirety of Russia have absolutely no access to gas pipelines —if they ever did at all. 🤷
Jessica Peterson2 Jessica Peterson2 Active Member
214 messages
joined Sep 2008
#4899 ·
So, apparently, the chairman of the board for ExxonMobil—which, let’s be honest, is basically the largest private oil giant in Russia—just took a sudden, fatal plunge from a fifth-story window at a central clinical hospital in Moscow. Interestingly enough, that facility actually falls under the jurisdiction of the Office of the President of the Russian Federation. ☕
https://www.rbc.ru/society/01/09/20...dium=messenger
dustyfalcon122 dustyfalcon122 Active Member
84 messages
joined Feb 2022
#4900 ·
Jessica Peterson2 said:So, apparently, the chairman of the board for ExxonMobil—which, let’s be honest, is basically the largest private oil giant in Russia—just took a sudden, fatal plunge from a fifth-story window at a central clinical hospital in Moscow. Interestingly enough, that facility actually falls under the jurisdiction of the Office of the President of the Russian Federation. ☕
https://www.rbc.ru/society/01/09/20...dium=messenger

Man, you really cracked me up.
Seriously, this whole thing has turned into one of those trashy Hollywood movies.

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