Russia's invasion of Ukraine: Part 5

Lisa Jackson7 said:All five, sure—but you can't just tear down the rules whenever it suits you. I mean, you *can*, but then you can't complain about wanting the stability of the geopolitical order established after WWII.
Like that saying goes about the Americans: "We aren't going to rule the world, we're just going to own it."
Even if we view global capital as international (which is a whole other conversation), the fundamental problem still stands.

You can't just erase competition or ego. It's baked into human society, and honestly, it's present in the animal kingdom too.

The best you can do is set some boundaries. Instead of hacking each other to death with swords or brawling in the streets, we compete via corporations and play games on the lawn.

Expecting a world where powers don't try to assert dominance is delusional—and maybe even undesirable. This applies to everything from local neighborhoods to the global stage.

The frameworks and rules of engagement put in place after WWI are significantly better than anything we've had before. What Russia is doing now isn't improving things; it’s actively tearing those structures down.

Since most people don't benefit from chaos—except for a tiny minority profiting from the mess—it seems Putin's actual goal is to disrupt everything and send a blunt message that there are certain lines you simply do not cross.

bluemason3 said:There’s no such thing as a perfect, flawless system. Distrust in democracy is really just a byproduct of:

- inconsistency
- the kind of relativistic propaganda we've been talking about
- having too much prosperity for too long, which makes people forget how much worse the alternatives actually are

Democracy and the "Western system" aren't facing any unique crisis compared to any other era in history.

And let's be real, Putinism isn't even a real alternative system. It doesn't have one. It's mostly defined by a total lack of actual values. That's why Russian propaganda always focuses on being negative—you know, pointing fingers at what the West is doing or acting like Ukraine is some kind of disaster—instead of trying to highlight anything positive about Russian achievements.

The Russian governor of Crimea, Aksyonov, is making quite the claim: apparently, there’s no need for referendums in the newly occupied territories of Ukraine. His reasoning? He argues that nobody is going to recognize them anyway—much like how the world refused to recognize the referendum held in Crimea, which he insists was conducted in an entirely honest and legal manner.
🤦

When it comes to America, despite all their imperialist nonsense, we’re incredibly lucky that this country—with its massive capacity, unique blend of natural resources, tech, talent, sheer scale, secure geography, and connectivity—was built and maintained on democratic foundations.

They have enough potential to break international rules three times harder than China and thirty times harder than Russia, acting way more aggressive than they actually are. If they were a classic quasi-empire instead of a modern one, they could get away with much more, but thankfully, a solid internal democracy keeps them in check.
Until things settle down in Russia and China, I have zero interest in their "multipolar world"—which is really just a fancy phrase used to mask some pretty shady maneuvering.

hollowdriver13 said:Honestly, that's one of the worst little phrases humanity ever cooked up.

To some people, it might sound deep or wise, but it couldn't be further from the reality of things. If "truth" was just whatever any single one of us perceived to be true, then truth wouldn't actually exist as a concept. Truth only exists because it stands in direct opposition to what is false. Think about it: if there were no lies, if everything were just inherently true, the whole distinction falls apart. You wouldn't have the contrast between good and evil, light and dark, or right and wrong. There would be nothing to define a "true" path. You wouldn't even need a preacher to preach or a teacher to teach.

So, I think all the ignorance we see in the world stems from this massive misunderstanding—we forget that our perceptions are basically just a gamble. We see something, we believe it, and then we fall in love with our own interpretation of it. Most of the time, we don't even realize we're interpreting anything; we just assume it’s objective reality.

Humanity also came up with the idea that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." Claiming that truth is also in the eye of the beholder is just a fast track to total nihilism—it sounds like something someone says when they've completely lost any sense of meaning in their lives.

Jessica Peterson2 said:The Russian governor of Crimea, Aksyonov, is making quite the claim: apparently, there’s no need for referendums in the newly occupied territories of Ukraine. His reasoning? He argues that nobody is going to recognize them anyway—much like how the world refused to recognize the referendum held in Crimea, which he insists was conducted in an entirely honest and legal manner.
🤦

I read somewhere that there might be referendums coming up on November 4th—or maybe they'll get pushed back because of the security situation. It’d be a shame if they did, though—people are honestly itching to join the Russian Federation. There was a link on the previous page regarding this specific date for the referendum, just so we don't have to keep circling back to it.

analogbear5 said:Humanity also came up with the idea that "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." Claiming that truth is also in the eye of the beholder is just a fast track to total nihilism—it sounds like something someone says when they've completely lost any sense of meaning in their lives.

👍

I’m 100% with you on that first part being true, but that second bit? Yeah, that’s pretty much rock bottom.

rowdytiger13 said:I'm sure they'll try, but Putin has been setting the stage for years.
It isn't going quite according to his playbook, though, since the goal was a quick, decisive win. He got tripped up by the classic pitfalls of authoritarian regimes—cronyism, nepotism, and rampant corruption. He clearly underestimated how much backbone Ukraine actually has and how little support they had internally, not to mention miscalculating his own military's weaknesses.
As for the rest... he’s effectively strangled any critical thinking in Russia that might reach the public eye. Literally. In an environment like that, you can pretty much get away with anything (except crossing certain lines).
He made the EU dependent on Russian energy—not every single nation, but certainly Germany, which is the economic engine of the continent. European politicians looked Putin right in the eye and fell for his logic. They were convinced he wouldn't start a war or use energy as leverage... they were wrong on both counts.
A huge number of politicians have also become beholden to Russian money, making them easy targets for blackmail.
He isn't on his knees by any stretch, but the EU is definitely feeling the squeeze. Starting with Viktor Orbán.

So, what's next for Europe? This winter looks tough. There's plenty of Orbán-style influence scattered across the EU.

William Anderson5 said:That isn't the only issue. The real problem is that most laypeople simply don't grasp the laws of history or geopolitics. Most people lack the historical perspective required to understand how to navigate geopolitical shifts. There hasn't been enough effort to explain that the world Russia is trying to build would be far worse than the one we currently inhabit. People don't truly comprehend what the collapse of NATO or the European Union would actually entail, nor do they have any inkling of the domino effect that would follow. Most can't draw parallels to past eras to recognize the looming dangers. Very few people know anything about Europe in the interwar period or how the world stumbled into WW2, so they can't see the patterns necessary to prevent a repeat today. To the average person, these concepts—much like the war in Ukraine—remain abstract until it’s already too late.

In my view, that's the most dangerous part of all...

👍. What kind of world does Russia want? We're getting a front-row seat. They want to drag us back three centuries. Regardless of all the wars the USA is responsible for, Russia is looking to set a precedent right now. They are the textbook definition of "give them an inch and they'll take a mile." That's their whole MO. They took Crimea, fought in the Donbas, established a status quo, and now they're back for more. Now they've arrived with this idea that everything from Kharkiv to Odessa should be annexed to Russia. Even Denis Pushilin mentioned wanting some kind of 300-kilometer buffer zone between the DNR and NATO. Basically, they'd just come back in a few years to grab the rest—Kyiv and whatever else they can get—just to maintain that buffer. And if they had just maintained the status quo, Ukraine would never have joined NATO. I mean, who would ever give up territory? Look at how Mexico hasn't budged on Mexico for 20 years. Ukraine would have to surrender massive chunks, like Crimea and the Donbas.

You only have to look at who they worship—just check the murals. Back in 2014, Stalin murals started appearing in the Donbas. At the time, they claimed he was there because he was a great statesman and leader who defeated fascism. People were mesmerized. But they weren't celebrating his actual achievements; it was something else entirely. In the Stalin era, anyone could be branded an enemy or a traitor, convicted without evidence, sent to a gulag, or simply killed. That’s exactly what those people in the Donbas wanted, and that's what they achieved. That's what the DNR and its counterparts have become. Anyone can be labeled a traitor or a spy, sentenced without an investigation, or thrown into "underground prisons"—you name it. In environments like that, having a different opinion is a dangerous game.

An interview with Pavel Filatyev, a Russian soldier who defected to France

It’s pretty much what we saw over in Russia—politicians, journalists, and all sorts of people getting arrested, convicted, or even killed. It happened in the DNR too. Usually, it was because they wanted to do things differently, missed their mark, or maybe just tried to grab more than their fair share.
I won't even get into the countless ordinary citizens who lost their lives—and I'm not talking about those caught in bombings. I mean the regular folks whose homes were raided and who were executed simply because someone labeled them a traitor or a spy... though sometimes, it was just because some person decided they felt like killing that day.
I guess this is just the "new world order" in action—this multipolar setup meant to act as a barrier against a decadent West.

wanderingmaker3 said:The EU definitely has its hands full dealing with Orbán because the guy is just straight-up unpredictable.

But when it comes to being hooked on Russian energy? Honestly, it’s pretty simple: they were just the cheapest option on the market.
+ Plus, there was massive investment poured into the infrastructure, like those pipelines.
+ And let's not forget a little bit of grease in the wheels.

Because what else are you supposed to do? Dragging gas in on tankers from Ukraine, the USA, or God knows where else is a massive headache.

For some people, Russian gas was a bargain, but for us, it wasn't.

http://www.twitter.com/nexta_tv/stat...Cy8dnp4MErAAAA

So, here’s the call for a peace deal. The Mediators? Berlusconi and Angela Merkel 🎉.

Kate Cook27 said:http://www.twitter.com/nexta_tv/stat...Cy8dnp4MErAAAA

So, here’s the call for a peace deal. The Mediators? Berlusconi and Angela Merkel 🎉.

You've got Berlusconi acting as Putin's buddy and Merkel playing the neutral party—except she's already admitted she hasn't been able to move the needle with Putin for ten straight years. Why would she suddenly be successful now?
The Ukrainians shouldn't agree to these mediators. All respect to Merkel, but she’s failed when it comes to Putin, and she’s the one who admitted it. As for Berlusconi, there's really nothing to say.
Macron would be a better bet... even if he doesn't seem like it, the man comes from the banking sector and actually knows how to negotiate, plus he isn't exactly leaning toward Putin.

Kate Cook27 said:http://www.twitter.com/nexta_tv/stat...Cy8dnp4MErAAAA

So, here’s the call for a peace deal. The Mediators? Berlusconi and Angela Merkel 🎉.

Even if it's tasteless, I really hope this is just a joke ☕

rowdytiger13 said:You've got Berlusconi acting as Putin's buddy and Merkel playing the neutral party—except she's already admitted she hasn't been able to move the needle with Putin for ten straight years. Why would she suddenly be successful now?
The Ukrainians shouldn't agree to these mediators. All respect to Merkel, but she’s failed when it comes to Putin, and she’s the one who admitted it. As for Berlusconi, there's really nothing to say.
Macron would be a better bet... even if he doesn't seem like it, the man comes from the banking sector and actually knows how to negotiate, plus he isn't exactly leaning toward Putin.

Maybe if they just handed over parts of Italy and Germany to the Russians, things would finally quiet down.

Maybe Orban will step up and offer to help negotiate soon. But what could they actually bring to the table? A new Minsk agreement or just another war in a few years?

Sandra Harris2 said:Even if it's tasteless, I really hope this is just a joke ☕

The Russians are coming to save the day—since they clearly can't handle the front lines.

James Phillips92 said:Maybe if they just handed over parts of Italy and Germany to the Russians, things would finally quiet down.

Russia all the way to Berlin🎉.

James Phillips92 said:The Russians are coming to save the day—since they clearly can't handle the front lines.

A whole new status quo 😠.