Sanctions on Russia

I’ve been reading urbanotter, and I honestly can't wrap my head around his logic. I can't pin down his stances, his biases, or even where he actually stands on anything...
Maybe he's just a troll.

urbanotter said:If he weren't such an off-topic nut, he’d probably give you a full rundown of everything that ended up on the American market during the Gulf War.

I remember hearing people brag about how Ukrainians managed to seize howitzers and tanks from the Russians and then used them to strike back.

Honestly, one single howitzer like that is worth more than two massive shipments of wheat.

That didn't seem to bother you much back when things were happening in the Middle East, nor did it seem to catch your eye.

Maybe it’s because they were just handing the ammunition right back to them.😁

Anyway, moving on.

Let us know if there's any news regarding the new round of sanctions; I heard they had another meeting today.
Hopefully, they actually came up with something useful instead of just sitting around sipping champagne.

🤣

You are completely missing the point. I find terms like "war booty" or "looting" absolutely repulsive, yet you seem to champion them. That alone speaks volumes about your lack of character.

To top it all off, you’re comparing the blatant theft by Ural-Asian hordes—who snatch grain, furniture, vehicles, farm equipment, even toilets and radiators—with the seizure of Russian weaponry by Ukraine.
Not only are you morally bankrupt, but it's clear you aren't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed either.

feralhawk45 said:I’ve been reading urbanotter, and I honestly can't wrap my head around his logic. I can't pin down his stances, his biases, or even where he actually stands on anything...
Maybe he's just a troll.

For crying out loud, how have you people not figured this out yet?🤦



lp

George Robinson43 said:🤣

You are completely missing the point. I find terms like "war booty" or "looting" absolutely repulsive, yet you seem to champion them. That alone speaks volumes about your lack of character.

To top it all off, you’re comparing the blatant theft by Ural-Asian hordes—who snatch grain, furniture, vehicles, farm equipment, even toilets and radiators—with the seizure of Russian weaponry by Ukraine.
Not only are you morally bankrupt, but it's clear you aren't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed either.

Maybe you should step back into reality and stop acting like a moral authority; remember that during our own American Civil War, we relied heavily on the weapons and equipment we reclaimed from the US Army.

Anyway, is there any news regarding the sanctions?
I ask you a simple question, and all you give me are these condescending moral lectures.

From what I can see, the only people truly feeling the sting of these sanctions are the folks in our Congressional halls and our highly efficient Cabinet.

They slap sanctions on Russia, and suddenly gas hits $5 a gallon, bread jumps to $6.75, flour goes up to $8, milk reaches $3.25 per gallon... it's a never-ending list of "successful" measures.

When our own citizens are struggling this much, I can only imagine how much the Russians are hurting.

The sanctions have been designed so brilliantly and meticulously that our esteemed Congressional leaders and our capable Cabinet haven't felt even a single ripple of discomfort.

In the government cafeteria, the soup, the schnitzel with sides, and the dessert $8.75 remain exactly the same as they were before the sanctions ever kicked in.

P.S.
I'm just not sure if that $8.75 includes a coffee from $1.00 or if that's an extra charge.🙏

That is what I call successful sanctions—not when you sanction Russia and they end up making more money than ever before.
They say they've made up to 100 billion dollars more than they did before the sanctions were even implemented.🙏

I’m genuinely struggling to wrap my head around how a country with such lagging tech infrastructure can claim to be self-sufficient (Mario Lugorec on n1). Aside from vodka, what exactly are they producing entirely on their own? Even their nuclear weapons with modern guidance systems aren't truly homegrown.

hollowdriver13 said:Alright, since you're always making fun of sanctions while claiming you're neutral—saying you aren't pro-Russia and you're against the invasion—what would urbanotter from the forums suggest we use as actual leverage to stop Russia in this war?
What exactly? Give us some concrete ideas so we can actually debate it, especially if you think economic sanctions aren't the way to go (though I think we can all agree that sanctions are a hell of a lot cheaper than sending Western troops directly into Ukraine).

urbanotter said:Maybe you should step back into reality and stop acting like a moral authority; remember that during our own American Civil War, we relied heavily on the weapons and equipment we reclaimed from the US Army.

Anyway, is there any news regarding the sanctions?
I ask you a simple question, and all you give me are these condescending moral lectures.

From what I can see, the only people truly feeling the sting of these sanctions are the folks in our Congressional halls and our highly efficient Cabinet.

They slap sanctions on Russia, and suddenly gas hits $5 a gallon, bread jumps to $6.75, flour goes up to $8, milk reaches $3.25 per gallon... it's a never-ending list of "successful" measures.

When our own citizens are struggling this much, I can only imagine how much the Russians are hurting.

The sanctions have been designed so brilliantly and meticulously that our esteemed Congressional leaders and our capable Cabinet haven't felt even a single ripple of discomfort.

In the government cafeteria, the soup, the schnitzel with sides, and the dessert $8.75 remain exactly the same as they were before the sanctions ever kicked in.

P.S.
I'm just not sure if that $8.75 includes a coffee from $1.00 or if that's an extra charge.🙏

That is what I call successful sanctions—not when you sanction Russia and they end up making more money than ever before.
They say they've made up to 100 billion dollars more than they did before the sanctions were even implemented.🙏

It looks like you completely ignored my point, even though I posted before George Robinson43 did. So, I'll ask again: if you’re truly neutral, against the war, and not rooting for Russia (which is what you claim in your posts), what would urbanotter do instead of sanctions? What kind of leverage would you use to force Russia to stop the war and pull back? Give me some direct suggestions so we can actually have a discussion and see if they’d be more effective than what we're doing now.

feralhawk45 said:I’ve been reading urbanotter, and I honestly can't wrap my head around his logic. I can't pin down his stances, his biases, or even where he actually stands on anything...
Maybe he's just a troll.

He really is that unpredictable,

especially when the mob starts shouting "hang them all" while urbanotter argues we should at least hold a trial to determine individual guilt before jumping to executions.

I feel like I’ve made my position clear several times now; my view aligns perfectly with what Pope Francis has said in full, rather than the butchered versions you see played out in the media.

Anyway, I'm done talking about him because the real issue here is the sanctions on Russia.
If you actually have something meaningful to contribute regarding those sanctions—since that is the actual subject at hand—then let's talk. This isn't about urbanotter's personal leanings.

feralhawk45 said:I’m genuinely struggling to wrap my head around how a country with such lagging tech infrastructure can claim to be self-sufficient (Mario Lugorec on n1). Aside from vodka, what exactly are they producing entirely on their own? Even their nuclear weapons with modern guidance systems aren't truly homegrown.

Easy. Just revert back to feudalism and adjust the timeline. They’ve already got the Tsar and the nobles ready to go.

urbanotter said:He really is that unpredictable,

especially when the mob starts shouting "hang them all" while urbanotter argues we should at least hold a trial to determine individual guilt before jumping to executions.

I feel like I’ve made my position clear several times now; my view aligns perfectly with what Pope Francis has said in full, rather than the butchered versions you see played out in the media.

Anyway, I'm done talking about him because the real issue here is the sanctions on Russia.
If you actually have something meaningful to contribute regarding those sanctions—since that is the actual subject at hand—then let's talk. This isn't about urbanotter's personal leanings.

You're lying.

feralhawk45 said:I’m genuinely struggling to wrap my head around how a country with such lagging tech infrastructure can claim to be self-sufficient (Mario Lugorec on n1). Aside from vodka, what exactly are they producing entirely on their own? Even their nuclear weapons with modern guidance systems aren't truly homegrown.

They might achieve self-sufficiency, but the real question is the quality of that technology. If they intend to rely on "tried and true" methods inherited from the USSR era, one has to wonder how much is even viable today. Most of those old factories have either shuttered or integrated into global supply chains just to stay afloat. Furthermore, much of that industrial capacity was spread across various former republics; now, it's simply out of reach for the Russian Federation (even Ukraine was a more technologically advanced republic within the USSR). I suspect their first move will be to patch things together through smuggling and whatever stockpiles they have left. If this becomes a long-term necessity, they'll be forced to substitute imports with domestic alternatives. That is inherently irrational—you end up with products that are more expensive and significantly lower in quality.

hollowdriver13 said:It looks like you completely ignored my point, even though I posted before George Robinson43 did. So, I'll ask again: if you’re truly neutral, against the war, and not rooting for Russia (which is what you claim in your posts), what would urbanotter do instead of sanctions? What kind of leverage would you use to force Russia to stop the war and pull back? Give me some direct suggestions so we can actually have a discussion and see if they’d be more effective than what we're doing now.

The issue here is really about the sanctions on Russia, rather than urbanotter's specific approach or actions.

Regarding those "leverages" mentioned,
I personally believe in listening to the advice people have been giving us for years, sitting down at the table, and reaching an agreement so that a conflict never even starts in the first place.
Every single war eventually concludes through negotiations at a conference table, not through endless battlefield combat or economic sanctions, so I don't see why this one should follow any different path.

Because despite ten or twenty different rounds of sanctions, there remains a very real possibility that Russia won't just capitulate, and that Zelenskyy won't set terms he's willing to discuss
unless he is explicitly ordered to do otherwise by someone else.

crimsoncyclist71 said:You're lying.

It feels like an insult to everyone else participating here, and I honestly think the moderators should step in, because attacking people personally is a much bigger violation of the rules than anything else

So, you can just consider yourself on my ignore list from here on out, since I have no interest in engaging with this kind of debate or this specific way of talking.🕺🕺🕺🕺

urbanotter said:The issue here is really about the sanctions on Russia, rather than urbanotter's specific approach or actions.

Regarding those "leverages" mentioned,
I personally believe in listening to the advice people have been giving us for years, sitting down at the table, and reaching an agreement so that a conflict never even starts in the first place.
Every single war eventually concludes through negotiations at a conference table, not through endless battlefield combat or economic sanctions, so I don't see why this one should follow any different path.

Because despite ten or twenty different rounds of sanctions, there remains a very real possibility that Russia won't just capitulate, and that Zelenskyy won't set terms he's willing to discuss
unless he is explicitly ordered to do otherwise by someone else.

Look, the whole point here is the sanctions. You’re claiming they aren't working, so I’m asking you: what’s your better idea? You haven't answered me. I'm not trying to pick a fight with you personally, I'm just asking what you propose instead of the current sanctions.

And they *were* at the table, but Putin decided to invade anyway—right after lying to the entire world about what he was up to. In fact, based on the latest reports regarding the conversation between Macron and Putin, he straight-up lied to Macron just two days before the invasion. He was on the phone sounding totally cool and collected, saying the exercises would wrap up on schedule and his legal team would draft a proposal to keep the Minsk process going.

So now I’m asking you: the war has started, and it's obvious one side has zero intention of negotiating. What do we actually do to try and force that side to stop the aggression? How else are you supposed to try and stop Russia if not through sanctions? Are we supposed to send Western troops into Ukraine?
Don't just throw platitudes at me; if you're against sanctions, give me some actual, concrete alternatives. Tell me, "Instead of these specific sanctions, we should have done X, Y, and Z because it would have been more effective without the blowback." Give me something real to work with.
Or are you suggesting we should have just kept doing business with Russia like nothing was happening and ignored everything going on in Ukraine?

urbanotter said:It feels like an insult to everyone else participating here, and I honestly think the moderators should step in, because attacking people personally is a much bigger violation of the rules than anything else

So, you can just consider yourself on my ignore list from here on out, since I have no interest in engaging with this kind of debate or this specific way of talking.🕺🕺🕺🕺

I'll say it again: you keep lying. If you had any shame, you wouldn't keep dragging the Pope into this. The Pope has condemned Russia's aggression against Ukraine on multiple occasions. You claim to agree with his stance, yet you haven't once actually condemned that aggression. Claiming to align with the Papal position is just a shameless lie.

urbanotter said:Maybe you should step back into reality and stop acting like a moral authority; remember that during our own American Civil War, we relied heavily on the weapons and equipment we reclaimed from the US Army.

Anyway, is there any news regarding the sanctions?
I ask you a simple question, and all you give me are these condescending moral lectures.

From what I can see, the only people truly feeling the sting of these sanctions are the folks in our Congressional halls and our highly efficient Cabinet.

They slap sanctions on Russia, and suddenly gas hits $5 a gallon, bread jumps to $6.75, flour goes up to $8, milk reaches $3.25 per gallon... it's a never-ending list of "successful" measures.

When our own citizens are struggling this much, I can only imagine how much the Russians are hurting.

The sanctions have been designed so brilliantly and meticulously that our esteemed Congressional leaders and our capable Cabinet haven't felt even a single ripple of discomfort.

In the government cafeteria, the soup, the schnitzel with sides, and the dessert $8.75 remain exactly the same as they were before the sanctions ever kicked in.

P.S.
I'm just not sure if that $8.75 includes a coffee from $1.00 or if that's an extra charge.🙏

That is what I call successful sanctions—not when you sanction Russia and they end up making more money than ever before.
They say they've made up to 100 billion dollars more than they did before the sanctions were even implemented.🙏

That is exactly how an American mindset works.
We didn't steal anything from anyone. We simply reclaimed a small portion of what was rightfully ours after the US Army seized it to prepare for war.

I’ve come to the conclusion that the most effective sanctions were actually cooked up by our "Parliamentary elites" and our highly successful Government.
They hit Russia with sanctions, yet for our citizens, oil is $20 a barrel, bread is $6.75, flour is $8, milk hit $3.25/l—it's a long list of incredibly successful sanctions.
Since our own citizens have been hit so hard, I can only imagine how much the Russians are struggling.
The sanctions were designed so brilliantly and meticulously that our "Parliamentary elites" and this successful government haven't felt a single bit of it.
In the cafeteria, the soup, schnitzel with sides, and dessert $8.75 remain exactly the same as they were before the sanctions were ever introduced.

I don't know why you're so concerned. You spent years preaching about how life was best when the shelves in America were half-empty. Now, suddenly, prices are an issue for you?
Good grief, Americans just aren't what they used to be.

urbanotter said:Maybe you should step back into reality and stop acting like a moral authority; remember that during our own American Civil War, we relied heavily on the weapons and equipment we reclaimed from the US Army.

Anyway, is there any news regarding the sanctions?
I ask you a simple question, and all you give me are these condescending moral lectures.

From what I can see, the only people truly feeling the sting of these sanctions are the folks in our Congressional halls and our highly efficient Cabinet.

They slap sanctions on Russia, and suddenly gas hits $5 a gallon, bread jumps to $6.75, flour goes up to $8, milk reaches $3.25 per gallon... it's a never-ending list of "successful" measures.

When our own citizens are struggling this much, I can only imagine how much the Russians are hurting.

The sanctions have been designed so brilliantly and meticulously that our esteemed Congressional leaders and our capable Cabinet haven't felt even a single ripple of discomfort.

In the government cafeteria, the soup, the schnitzel with sides, and the dessert $8.75 remain exactly the same as they were before the sanctions ever kicked in.

P.S.
I'm just not sure if that $8.75 includes a coffee from $1.00 or if that's an extra charge.🙏

That is what I call successful sanctions—not when you sanction Russia and they end up making more money than ever before.
They say they've made up to 100 billion dollars more than they did before the sanctions were even implemented.🙏

And how are we supposed to know they're making 100 million more? Are we just taking the Russians' word for it? 😛 Besides, they aren't even publishing reports anymore. How much did their production drop? What kind of discounts are they offering? Without Western parts, I doubt they can even maintain pre-war production levels. I think you're just a closeted communist, but ExxonMobil, Chevron, and the rest are actually private companies listed on global stock exchanges. Theoretically, high oil and gas prices should benefit them more than Russia (which makes less than $20 per barrel), but that's Russia for you. Banning ExxonMobil dividends and potentially confiscating them 🙂 will send massive shockwaves through business circles, and they'll be begging for foreign investment once the sanctions end and their production looks like Venezuela's.

Linda Adams said:And how are we supposed to know they're making 100 million more? Are we just taking the Russians' word for it? 😛 Besides, they aren't even publishing reports anymore. How much did their production drop? What kind of discounts are they offering? Without Western parts, I doubt they can even maintain pre-war production levels. I think you're just a closeted communist, but ExxonMobil, Chevron, and the rest are actually private companies listed on global stock exchanges. Theoretically, high oil and gas prices should benefit them more than Russia (which makes less than $20 per barrel), but that's Russia for you. Banning ExxonMobil dividends and potentially confiscating them 🙂 will send massive shockwaves through business circles, and they'll be begging for foreign investment once the sanctions end and their production looks like Venezuela's.

Your hatred is honestly quite pathetic, and frankly, it shows a massive lack of understanding regarding how this works.

The Wall Street Journal is a serious, reputable news organization, not some trashy tabloid or a random YouTube pundit.

Russia earned $93 billion from fossil fuel exports during the first 100 days of the war in Ukraine. Most of those fossil fuels were sent to the European Union, with average export prices sitting about 60% higher than they were this time last year, according to a new study.

https://www.wsj.com/market/energy/analysis-of-war-impact-4341210

And yet, you all continue to spout nonsense and ignore the facts right in front of you.

@George Robinson43... I used to get more action in a single day back in the old days than I do in an entire year now. God, those were the days.
Now, on a serious note... how are we supposed to live without microchips? How do you maintain all this electronics embedded in basically every product we own (I don't think there's one in my toilet, though)? If 40 million Russians are living like they're in the Middle Ages, then 70 million Russians are interacting with some kind of electronic device every single day.

Linda Adams said:And how are we supposed to know they're making 100 million more? Are we just taking the Russians' word for it? 😛 Besides, they aren't even publishing reports anymore. How much did their production drop? What kind of discounts are they offering? Without Western parts, I doubt they can even maintain pre-war production levels. I think you're just a closeted communist, but ExxonMobil, Chevron, and the rest are actually private companies listed on global stock exchanges. Theoretically, high oil and gas prices should benefit them more than Russia (which makes less than $20 per barrel), but that's Russia for you. Banning ExxonMobil dividends and potentially confiscating them 🙂 will send massive shockwaves through business circles, and they'll be begging for foreign investment once the sanctions end and their production looks like Venezuela's.

urbanotter simply doesn't grasp the concept. It's far too complex for him, which is why he resorts to such hateful replies to your post.
He fails to realize that state revenue comes from oil business royalties, concession fees, and taxes, whereas the actual profit from selling oil and gas belongs to the companies themselves.

But there is a catch in Russia—Putin can dip into ExxonMobil, ExxonMobil, or Chevron whenever he pleases, and if anyone dares to tell him "no," their lifespan will likely be limited to 24–48 hours. This applies not just to these specific firms, but to any company under his thumb.
So, will investors lose money? Absolutely. But who is to blame for investing in Mafia-linked KGB companies that have nothing to do with legitimate market operations?

feralhawk45 said:@George Robinson43... I used to get more action in a single day back in the old days than I do in an entire year now. God, those were the days.
Now, on a serious note... how are we supposed to live without microchips? How do you maintain all this electronics embedded in basically every product we own (I don't think there's one in my toilet, though)? If 40 million Russians are living like they're in the Middle Ages, then 70 million Russians are interacting with some kind of electronic device every single day.

They don't even need all that stuff. They are completely self-sufficient.
The real issue right now is that they've printed new Dollars, but the ATMs won't recognize them, so they're struggling to get the currency into circulation quickly.
This is just the beginning of America's regression back to the 1970s and 80s.