Posts by redheron12

feraltrucker5 said:Well, baby Felipe is plenty smart too. 🤷 It's just that once they told him Alonso was moving faster, he basically decided to clear a path on his own initiative (🤣) and get out of the way. 👍

True, but if that were actually the case, he wouldn't have acted like an insulted bystander during the press conference. 🙄

If Massa was going to let Alonso pass, he should have just taken it on the chin at the podium—or better yet, not yielded at all. Instead, he did what he felt he had to do, but ended up throwing the whole team under the bus.

Edward Howard2 said:It’s pretty rough when even the blind folks can see that Button is totally out of his league.😁

It all comes down to raw ability, I suppose.🤷

Except at Ferrari—it feels like everyone there lacks basic competence, which makes me think they must be hiring based on some other, much stranger criteria.😉

Good grief, this guy is absolutely dreadful—it honestly feels like someone just smacked him right in the face with a frying pan.🤣

cosmicridge5 said:I guess it's more like McLaren makes us look like idiots by being "subtle" about it, pulling these masterclass maneuvers to cloud our vision, when it's actually quite clear what's happening... rather than Ferrari, who doesn't even attempt to pull any nonsense to mislead us.😍

😁

Come on, cosmicridge5, please don't mess this up.

When was the last time a driver at McLaren was actually ordered to let someone else through?

If I recall correctly—and I try to keep my facts straight—Coulthard was sensible enough to know when to yield without being told.

Kovalainen was painfully slow back then; I doubt anyone even needed to give him orders.

Then there was Alonso, who essentially wrecked the team's chances—yet he was never ordered to move for Lewis, and we lost the title by a single point because of it.

It seems pretty clear to the drivers themselves where things stand—who holds the better position—and they should be able to make those calls on their own.

Take Kimi, for instance—he let Massa through once, but nobody panicked about it, mostly because it's understood that Kimi is intelligent enough to handle things without being micromanaged.

So, just STFU!

cosmicridge5 said:How many posts did you guys manage to pump out while I was busy making my way through the Metro? 🙂 😁

Anyway, I agree that banning team orders is a complete joke. That rule is basically just dead ink on paper at this point. Nobody actually enforces it, nobody can realistically enforce it, nobody actually wants to enforce it, and I doubt anyone here is under any illusions about how that works. 😁 So why the sudden shock today, then? 😁 What have you guys seen lately?

Does it bother anyone else that there was just so much going on? I guess I'm wondering if it felt a bit overwhelming to everyone else too. Obviously.Yeah, I agree. It looks ridiculous, honestly. It’s just embarrassing to watch the drivers being forced to act like idiots for no reason.

Everyone involved—including us—is well aware that team orders and strategic decisions aren't going anywhere. They exist in every single garage on the grid. It's common knowledge that in Formula 1, the team's overall interest takes precedence over any individual driver's ego. Personally, I think that’s actually quite reasonable given the circumstances, and it’s honestly how things have to work if you want to win.

It’s pretty obvious that within McLaren (and even outside of it), Lewis is treated as the clear number one driver. Even though he's technically officially labeled as number two— The current world champion.😲 Even though he definitely still has a shot at the title. 😉 Lewis might have that slight edge in raw pace, but if you ask me, Button makes up for it with other qualities. Honestly, though, if we’re being real about it, the biggest injustice here has to be at McLaren. I guess if anyone deserved to be number two more than anyone else on the grid, it probably wasn't Button.

When you look at the numbers, Massa was clearly outclassed by Alonso. There’s really no debate about who the more complete driver is when you weigh everything up. Honestly, given the massive gap in points between them, I guess Ferrari's move was pretty much the only logical step left. The reasons behind it are obvious and have been discussed to death already.

Someone mentioned that this isn't quite the same situation as when Kimi took his title, arguing that back then it came down to the final race and whether he could clinch it or not. I guess it’s not all that different here, though. Massa doesn't really have a realistic shot at the championship anymore, whereas Fernando still has a path if everything aligns perfectly—assuming he drives flawlessly and gets a decent bit of luck on top of it. From where I'm sitting, Ferrari was facing a real dilemma today: they could either play this hand and stay in the hunt for the title, or just throw in the towel entirely. And apparently, this is all because of some supposed "moral code" regarding avoiding team orders? We all know those exist; honestly, teams don't even try that hard to hide them, let alone anyone else.

In my opinion, the only way Ferrari actually messed this up was by ignoring what everyone else is doing—something we all know for a fact is working. Everyone’s getting to work. He didn't exactly make it "less obvious." I guess it’s a massive blunder once you actually take a closer look. wow. 😁It’s pretty obvious Ferrari knows the Formula 1 fanbase isn't stupid, so there's really no point trying to insult our intelligence by hiding or using some nonsensical camouflage for things everyone already knows are happening. 😁 It's standard practice for basically every team on the grid.

I agree this was laughably transparent, but it just proves how unenforceable this ban is—given how much people use coded language anyway—and how ridiculous it is. They should just scrap it.

Now, if we want to talk about the moral side of things, which seems to be what everyone here loves to lecture one another about, then from a purely ethical standpoint, it makes zero difference whether something "immoral" is done overtly or subtly. 😁

It doesn't make an act any less immoral if, for instance, Kimi wins a title because of the exact same reasons, it just happens that Kimi is everyone's favorite, so we all happily cheer him on. Meanwhile, if Alonso does it, it's suddenly seen as more immoral simply because he's the easiest target for people to hate. 😁

It's funny how our little forum sweetheart is suddenly so concerned about Button.😍

Button was never a "number two" driver; nobody ever actually said that or ordered him to let Hamilton past. The only thing was that he wasn't permitted to engage in those foolish, risky, and completely unnecessary battles against his teammate. We saw exactly how that plays out over at Red Bull.

By using a smart, disciplined approach, a team with only the third fastest car can actually lead both the constructors' and drivers' championships.

They managed to stretch their lead from 17 to 21 points in the championship—all despite having a car that was running about 25 seconds slower than the competition👋

Ferrari has officially entered the fray

Jason Campbell70 said:Double standards?

Let's be real: Hamilton won his only title largely because of team orders.

Especially on this track, during that championship season.

Total nonsense. No one cares.

But sure, let's just keep trashing Ferrari instead.

Come on, Jason Campbell70, don't be so harsh—where was this energy when McLaren pulled something equally clumsy and obvious, broadcasted live for everyone to see, only to act completely unapologetic at the press conference?

I never said McLaren doesn't do it, they just tend to be much more subtle about it. 🤷

Edward Howard2 said:Webber straight up admitted that the second driver in the squad is 😉
and you could practically see who the real number one was at McLaren just by looking at Lewis Hamilton's face during that Turkey press conference—especially after that race where Button wasn't even allowed to finish ahead of 😉

At least the guy looked embarrassed—he definitely wasn't out there crying about it, though.😁

cosmicridge5 said:I’d have to agree with 😳. Actually, they’re pushing him way more than they push Ferrari Alonso. You can see it clearly now... if Hemić were trailing Button (just like Nando is behind Massa right now) and still had this many points in the standings, things wouldn't look like this. There's no way they'd let Button have a shot at this 😳

And honestly, the gap between Button and Hemić (in terms of skill, points, and the fact that Button is the reigning world champion!) is much smaller than the massive gap between Nando and Massa when you look at everything else 😳

🤣 honestly, you should be kicked out

your friends over at Ferrari are a total joke

I imagine Kimi is somewhere out in Finland right now—probably laughing his head off 😁

It’s not right—let them have their say, I suppose—but maybe everyone does it, just nobody acts this incredibly rude and insulting. Now they can deal with the fallout. I’m not necessarily expecting some massive hammer to drop from the World motorsport Council, but the atmosphere and relationships within the team are going to be completely trashed because of everything that went down today.

McLaren was slapped with a $100,000,000 fine for violating Article 151c—and they didn't even have Santander on board as a sponsor at the time.😁

Christian Horner is waiting on the stewards' verdict

"I have to say, that was probably the most blatant team order I've ever witnessed—especially when you see a team actually apologizing to their own driver," Horner told the BBC.

"It’ll be fascinating to see how the officials rule on this, because everything about it was as clear-cut as back in 2002, when they had to overhaul the regulations specifically because of situations like this."

"The rules are quite explicit—team orders are prohibited—and what we saw there looked exactly like a team order."

This could end up being a real setback for Ferrari😁

It’s all great, but let’s not lose sight of the reality—McLaren is currently running a significantly slower car, yet they’ve somehow managed to widen the gap over the rest of the field. Eventually, that new diffuser is going to click into place.

In the meantime, the goal should be damage limitation and staying consistent—which actually works in our favor, given how much Mark Webber, Fernando Alonso, and Sebastian Vettel are busy taking points off one another.

Megan Alvarez3 said:What would even happen if Formula 1 was moved out of the Sports subforum?😁

Yeah, they really ought to move that over to television—maybe even package it as a reality show. 👍

Morgan Murphy7 said:That's exactly how PAto works!

If you ask me, these bans are completely pointless.

If everything had been played fair back in 2007, Kimi Räikkönen would never have been champion because he wouldn't have had to yield to Felipe Massa.

Of course the team is going to order someone to let another pass when even a fool can see that 25 points are far more vital for Alonso than for Massa, given that the latter still has a shot at the title.

Yeah, but like I said before—if they're going to do it, they shouldn't make it so incredibly blatant—otherwise, with the statements being made, it just makes us all look like idiots.👎

Edward Howard2 said:Jenson Button let Lewis Hamilton back past and then he was gone, totally out of reach. 😉
They were saving fuel. 🤣

I didn't see it as him being let through—it felt more like one of those classic, impulsive moves from Lewis, where Button actually made the only sensible call in the situation.

Nancy Scott5 said:The race was 🙂, so here’s a little something for all the McLaren fans out there
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epI6u6uA8hM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9Sai_jLQG4
😁

I mean, hello? In both instances, Kimi Räikkönen just kept losing ground—he was significantly slower than Lewis Hamilton. Even if he had just missed him once, it wouldn't be an issue, but this... he was absolutely disastrous in both races.

Maria Nelson2 said:Look, if Jenson Button ends up crashing out and Lewis Hamilton slides right into his spot, people are going to start crying foul again, claiming they’re just falling back on that old Renault playbook where they pick a favorite and run with it.
Wall of Victory!!!! 🤣🤣

Honestly, it was a decent enough race for us, I suppose.👍It’s not a bad start, considering the whole system is still running at half-capacity anyway.☕

I don't know—I mean, Button is still sitting in second in the standings despite having a weaker car, which I suppose speaks volumes.