When aspiring musicians Lars and Sigrit are given the opportunity to represent their country at the world's biggest song competition, they finally have a chance to prove that any dream worth having is a dream worth fighting for.
I guess Americans just love making fools of themselves with Eurovision, though I suppose it’s a bit surprising it hasn't crossed their minds until now... 😁
I need to dig up an old post from Vajti's archives—it’s over a decade old now—where I laid out all the essential details regarding this film.
Vajti:
Heaven's Gate (1980) Just one week after sweeping the Oscars for Best Picture and Best Director for his masterpiece, *Deer Hunter*, Michael Cimino jumped straight into production on *Heaven's Gate*. At the time, he had the massive backing of United Artists—the legendary studio co-founded by Charlie Chaplin back in 1919. After the triumph of *Deer Hunter*, Cimino basically had his pick of any project in Hollywood. Instead of playing it safe, he chose to chase his own vision, aiming to craft what he believed would be the greatest Western ever put to film.
Heaven's Gate certainly wasn't the greatest Western ever put to film, and that was obvious to everyone after the very first screening. However, I’d go as far as to say it remains one of the most significant pieces of cinema in Hollywood history—not just within the Western genre, but across the board. So much transpired during and after the production of that movie that it will be etched into history forever:
After the film’s catastrophic failure at the box office, United Artists went under and was eventually swallowed up by MGM.
Despite his Oscar wins, Michael Cimin's directorial career effectively hit a dead end. He hasn't made anything since 1996, leaving him with a total of only four films to his name.
The collapse of that particular film definitely signaled the definitive end of the New Hollywood era.
The downfall of cinema was also hastened by the end of an era where studios actually gave directors any semblance of creative freedom. You can see the direct fallout today in the endless stream of teen comedies and other mindless drivel being shoved down our throats in multiplexes. These days, the studios pick the projects based on marketability rather than vision; that level of artistic liberty has essentially vanished, unless you're working in Independent film.
There are three different versions of the film on record: The 1st version probably doesn't exist anywhere anymore; that was the cut Michael Cimin showed his bosses after finishing the edit, and it ran for about five and a half hours. The second version currently available on DVD—which I proudly added to my own collection—was the one shown at the grand premiere and later released for a relatively brief theatrical run, clocking in at 210 minutes. The third version clocks in at just under 150 minutes. United Artists released it theatrically at the request of Cimin himself, after he realized his film was essentially bombing at the box office and decided to trim it down even further. Finding this specific version today is incredibly difficult—nearly impossible, actually.
Back in the mid-80s, some cable network dug up a 210-minute version of Heaven's Gate, branded it "Heaven's Gate: The Uncut version," and started airing it. Looking back, you could argue that this was really the moment the term "Director's cut" entered the mainstream lexicon. Nowadays, we see it all the time with major directors who, when they can't get their full vision onto the big screen, decide to serve it up on smaller screens via DVD releases instead.
Back in 1985, Steven Bach—who was an executive at United Artists at the time and ultimately lost his job following the film's absolute disaster—published a book titled "Final Cut: Dreams and Disaster in the Making of Heaven's Gate." If you're interested in the deep dive, there is also a TV documentary from 2005 called "Final Cut: The Making and Unmaking of Heaven's Gate," which is available for anyone curious to watch on YouTube.
Even though the American Humane Association had been overseeing film productions since the 1940s, they weren't actually allowed on set. This lack of oversight led to direct accusations that animals were being intentionally harmed or even killed just to make certain scenes feel more realistic—claims that were actually backed up by some of the crew members involved. Ever since those scandals broke, every single movie has been required to include that standard disclaimer in the credits: "No animals were harmed during the making of this motion picture..."
- Aside from the "vegetarians" (as I like to call them), access to the set was strictly forbidden for journalists. This is widely considered one of the primary reasons the film faced such intense negative publicity even before its release. It actually led one reporter to pose as an "extra"—which worked—giving him an exclusive look behind the scenes. A few weeks after his stint ended, he published a scathing exposé in his American newspapers regarding Michael Cimin's behavior on set, his obsessive perfectionism, and the aforementioned treatment of animals;
- Legend has it (and Wikipedia corroborates this) that by the sixth day of production, the film was already five days behind schedule. In the end, Cimin shot over 200 hours of footage, with daily costs estimated at roughly $220,000. While the approved budget was $7 million, the final price tag ballooned to $44 million. At the US box office, it failed to pull in even $3.5 million.
When you factor all that in, along with Cimin's extreme perfectionism (one day, nobody was allowed to eat lunch because the entire crew had to wait for the sun to hit a specific angle for a single shot; "Lunch? There will be time for lunch—what we are doing right now will last forever!" Cimin reportedly remarked. They didn't get a single second of footage that day), and the fact that the scene where immigrants beat a drunken Kristofferson—who swings his whip at them in a stupor—was repeated 52 (fifty-two) times, it isn't hard to see why Heaven's Gate became one of the biggest box-office flops in history.
HOWEVER (here comes the big "BUT")... ...once you actually sit through the movie (I just finished the three-and-a-half-hour viewing), you truly cannot find a single fault with the technical aspects. Every frame displays that specific directorial "touch" Cimin was striving for; there is simply no room for criticism there. In fact, if one were looking for technical errors, this film would likely rank among those with the absolute fewest. The film suffers from a different, second major issue: the screenplay. Cimin's characters are utterly hollow and empty. There is no foundation for characterization, which is a massive flaw for a 210-minute film. I don't recall ever seeing a movie with emptier characters, and I believe that fundamental void is why American critics tore it apart. Europeans were much more lenient, with some considering it a very good film, though perhaps that's because we Europeans view it through a slightly different lens than Americans (the plot itself might play a role). Regardless, it's us (Europeans) who end up suffering in the film. The final battle at the end (one studio executive who watched the five-and-a-half-hour version remarked that the battle "lasted longer than an average movie") is indeed masterfully directed and utterly brutal. It’s a shame it occurs at the 170-minute mark, by which point more than 70% of the audience has already checked out.
To wrap things up, I can only hope that everything that transpired with Heaven's Gate will one day inspire someone to make a film about it (books and documentaries already exist) and sweep up some awards, because there is certainly enough material for it.
Richard Wilson4 said:Americans really love this kind of movie. I mean the original; we'll see how this one turns out.
What original? The book came out in 2018. It might borrow some vibes from Rear Window, but calling it a remake is a stretch.
The book is fine—decent enough to read—but it feels like a blatant attempt to ride the coattails of The Girl on the Train. I expect the movie will follow suit: something forgettable that fades away quickly.
Daniel Wells said:It’s become a bit of a trend in Hollywood lately—casting Black actors in roles originally written for white characters. Apparently, they're taking that same approach with the upcoming Dr. Sleep film. So, does that officially fall under the category of "blackwashing"?
I might be in the minority here, if not completely alone, but I just couldn't get on board with Mark Rylance's performance. That cold, detached indifference he brought to the role felt so forced and artificial that it was actually painful to watch.
That said, the movie itself is decent enough popcorn fare.
The Swedes have officially given Stefan Löfven his mandate. On the third attempt, no less.
This time, the Left-wing threw their support behind him too. It wasn't exactly a smooth ride, though:
The deadlock was finally broken when the Democrats and Greens reached an agreement with the Centrists and Liberals, who will allow the two former parties to govern in exchange for slightly more right-wing economic policies.
I suppose nobody has the patience for a "deadlock" anymore.
The Democratic Party is seeing massive momentum in Scania, where they managed to sweep 21 out of 33 municipalities during the local elections. Even in Hobby, they pulled in over 35% of the vote.
Here is an interesting bit: the Moderate Party in Malmo is just one seat away from ousting the Social Democrats, and they might find that seat sitting right within the Democratic Party. To prevent this, the Social Democrats actually offered to let the Moderates join their coalition, but the Moderates turned them down—they didn't want to be stuck in a "minority role."😁 They'd rather hold their own, even if they end up needing a single vote from the Democratic Party, primarily because the Democratic Party doesn't demand any concessions in return. It turns out everyone is looking for a way to kick the Social Democrats out of power in Malmo for the first time in 24 years.
That said, it looks like the Moderate Party might not even need that extra help from the Democratic Party; analysts are suggesting that seat will likely fall their way once the overseas votes are tallied.
Morgan Cook10 said:If those standard political parties just started acting like actual, functional parties—like you see in Denmark—there wouldn't even be an opening for the Social Democratic Party to seize power. It's the same story everywhere else.
The thing is, that boundary they can't cross? It gets pushed back a little more every single year.
The exact same thing happened in the Netherlands. It wasn't until Mark Rutte adopted some "Wilders-esque" rhetoric that his party actually gained momentum while the PVV began to slide.
As for what’s happening with the Swedes, I can't say for certain, but Stefan Löfven and the migration minister cooked up some new migrant policy that apparently caused Sara Karlsson to resign, calling it anti-migrant. Whether it was just political theater for the voters remains to be seen, but if it was, it likely worked.
On another note, you have to hand it to the Swedes for that 85% turnout. I suspect it might even top the Netherlands, where they also saw numbers north of 80%.
dustyjackal10 said:After two weeks in Seattle, I’ve moved on to Austin for a week. Work stuff. By worldview, I’m a conservative, Catholic, right-winger. I’ve been watching the situation in Sweden for a while now, and naturally, seeing it from an American perspective is pretty jarring.
But after this brief stint here, I wanted to jot down a few observations.
I look at the whole LGBTQ ideology with total disdain, and honestly, the following is just fascinating: Swedish patriotism isn't unknown, you can even see it in the colors of some road signs—where they'd be red and white elsewhere, here they're blue and yellow. On the flip side, the most dominant flag in Sweden is the rainbow one. It’s absolutely mind-boggling; in front of every business, corporation, public institution, or transit vehicle, you mostly see three, sometimes more, rainbow flags flying. Hardly any Swedish flags to be seen. Just now in Austin, a guy in his private apartment hung up a Swedish flag when he realized my colleague and I were visiting. I have to admit, that relaxed me a bit. We're staying in an immigrant neighborhood, so it's good to see some Swedes around here too.
As for the immigrants;
Like that article in the morning paper said, things are worst in Miami, so I was actually surprised by what I saw in Seattle.
Last Sunday, I went to church for Mass, thinking based on what I read online that there would be a Mass in American. Sadly, there wasn't. Instead, I had a once-in-a-lifetime experience attending a Mass in Arabic with a full church of people from the Middle East. Since I've been watching a lot of videos of former Muslims on YouTube lately, I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by the situation in Seattle. Traffic in Seattle is a nightmare right now (lots of construction and a new bridge being built, so the tunnels are jammed), so I spent a lot of time staring at other cars and drivers. Plenty of them are Black or from the Middle East, and they aren't living off welfare—they certainly couldn't afford those cars on social assistance. A pleasant surprise. Swedes, as Swedes, are very professional and polite, though I get the impression the politeness is somewhat superficial. One unpleasant surprise? In these two weeks, I haven't seen a single attractive Swedish woman. That really caught me off guard.
General impression: Sweden is one massive construction site, with heavy industry and jobs everywhere. With that much work available, they don't seem to have a choice but to import even more migrants.
I recalled an article describing Seattle as an incredibly divided city. Here is the link: https://www.thelocal.se/20161028/stu...ist-sympathies
A huge number of Sweden's "sensitive areas" are located right there in that city.
Here is a related academic study for those interested:
I'm just wondering if we’ll hear from the top-tier domestic analysts—like that one pundit over at USA Today who insisted Sebastian Kurz essentially lost the election because the Freedom Party of Austria and the SPÖ would team up to oust him.
rapidhawk2 said:1) Why have the Greens collapsed so spectacularly? It’s quite simple: they did a terrible job, particularly in cities like New York; they completely mismanaged their relationship with Pilz; and most importantly, the vast majority of voters who fear the rise of the Republican-Libertarian coalition chose the Democratic Party just to mitigate the damage as much as possible.
2) Regarding the American youth: the fact that they lean toward the FPÖ or generally right-wing politics is almost entirely irrelevant (!!!) because the tide is shifting in a massive direction. Why is that? Because in places like New York, there is an enormous population of older migrants who may not hold citizenship themselves, yet their children do (specifically various Muslim communities in New York); these families are having many children, and once those children reach voting age, they will be voting Democratic, which will exert a profound influence on the American youth—an influence that is becoming impossible to ignore when you consider the demographic shifts in New York over the next 10, 15, or 20 years. This trend is absolute; one can practically feel it every single day.
I say this as a conservative who grew up in New York.
PS: The Democratic Party is much like the Republican Party; you can criticize them all you want, but they possess a core base of loyal voters that remains unshakable, much like the damn Republican Party.
How many children are we actually talking about here? I looked up some statistics showing that Muslim women in the US had a fertility rate of 3.1 back in 1981, which dropped to 2.3 by 2001 (and it’s probably even lower today). While Muslim women certainly have more children in their home countries, those rates tend to decline with each passing generation within Western nations—and that isn't unique to the US, but happens across the West. They still have higher birth rates than the average American woman, but it's nowhere near as extreme as the media portrays it to be.
Could someone give me a quick rundown on why the Green Party's numbers are tanking this hard? Part of the issue is definitely the split in Pittsburgh, but even then, this drop feels extreme. Is it possible it's because the president—who's supposed to be one of their own—is such a total disaster?
A fire broke out at a refugee center in Vänersborg, 62 miles just outside of Seattle. A few people were injured, including two who actually jumped out of a window to escape the flames. Local police are currently treating it as arson.
P.s. I can't seem to copy the link from my phone for some reason.
Gregory Nguyen2 said:Hey everyone, I was hoping I could get a little bit of advice from you all.
I'm curious about what my actual options are regarding my pension fund over in Sweden? I moved to Sweden back in 2010, worked there for five years before moving again for work, and since then, quite a bit has accumulated in my pension account during those working years. I would honestly love to just leave those funds sitting in Sweden if I can, so I'm wondering if that is even an option and what kind of guidance you might have for me?
You can find information regarding these types of inquiries in the diaspora PDF.
