Jonathan Wright2 said:I’ve been talking to some colleagues—names I won't drop because I've got a PDF for the History section to worry about.
The consensus was basically what was said.. Oštrić is way too intense.
If you cross him, he doesn't let it go.. He doesn't forgive.
You have to write exactly how official history dictates, stripping away any personal opinion, impression, analysis, or conclusion.. And all this on a forum where the whole damn point is having diverse perspectives.
Sure, falsifying, fabricating, and forging things happens everywhere, but the criticism aimed at me concerns a controversial topic, which resulted in Mr. Oštrić putting my name on his "unwanted" list.
But look, I’m inviting you—and anyone else interested—to read the book (which I cited immediately) and decide for yourselves if changing certain terms actually alters the context..
It doesn't.
I called this unknown unit that was gathering strength and falling apart in the summer of 1941 the HNAP, because that’s literally what it was.. It was an American national force belonging to the Anti-fascist Movement.
But apparently, I wasn't allowed to say that because I had to use the "standard" term—Partisans.
And seriously, why would Oštrić ban someone if there isn't any insults or belittlement involved?
Or any other moderator for that matter?!
What I write might be true or false to some, but a forum is a place for criticism and debunking; it's a place to drag someone who's intentionally misleading people into a debate or a mockery, depending on their character..
But Oštrić relentlessly deletes posts because he can't stand anything that deviates from the "official" line..
To me, that weakens the forum because it stops people from writing what they want and expressing their own opinions..
What’s the point of a debate if we’re all forced to think exactly the same way?
I provided the topic and the source..
The one thing I messed up on, and what Oštrić used as an excuse to pivot the conversation, was using the term HNAP..
Just imagine—even the title was changed from the Royal Government to the Yugoslav Government.. This same book was written during the era of the USSR with specific rules and censorship, where they frequently avoided using the term "Royal Yugoslav Government."
Here, let me give you another example.
The official name for the armed forces of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia was the Yugoslav Royal Army / JKV.
In the thread I was posting in, I used the term JKVO / Yugoslav Royal Government in the Homeland, and Oštrić warned me that I shouldn't do that because the term used should have been JVuO / Yugoslav Army in the Homeland...
How does that change the actual facts? Where is the loss of context?
Is it like asking whether I should write FBI or CIA?
There—those are my "fabrications" that I'm being accused of.
Do you really think those things mess up the context?
Besides, am I even allowed to express myself, at least on this forum, in the way I deem correct?
And again... everyone reads, and anyone who finds something they don't like has every right to criticize it..
Look, Oštrić is a valuable member of this forum, no doubt about it.. He's a brilliant expert, but he’s not cut out to be a moderator.
Moderating takes a certain skill set.. He doesn't know how to allow freedom of expression.
He injects this unnecessary rigidity, when a forum should be a place of freedom..
So, let’s have an open discussion, rather than one held under threat of sanctions..
It’s honestly messed up. Especially since I don't even know what they call "official history" anymore. ☕
And you can't even have a damn opinion, an impression, or a single shred of analysis? On a Reddit thread meant specifically for different perspectives? Give me a break.
Seriously? You think if we actually agree on something after a debate, it somehow ruins the whole point of this Reddit? 🤔
Fake news, fabrication, and straight-up fraud happen everywhere you look, but the crap people are throwing my way specifically targets... That controversial topic again.
The topic isn't even controversial. I only changed the title because yours was way too broad. In the moderator note on the first post, I already said the subject is totally fine, but the way you're handling it is just wrong.
Look, readers need to be careful here. The OP is basically turning this into an "essay" instead of just giving us the straight facts from Boban's book. He's throwing in his own little inventions rather than dropping a direct quote first and then adding commentary. Take everything he says with a massive grain of salt.
Unbelievable. You still haven't figured out what an "actual quote" even means. Seriously? 😵
You totally made up those abbreviations like AFP and the IRS, man. You wrote them so convincingly I actually thought they were legit terms from some document you were citing. It wasn't until I did my own digging and started asking around that you finally admitted, "Yeah, I just made that up."Post #41That kind of "inventing" stuff in History isn't allowed. Not happening.
...after which Mr. Oštrić basically tossed my name right into the blacklist.
I don't even know your real name. Just some handle. Your nick is totally fine; it's just your writing style that's a total mess.
I’m backing some obscure unit that was basically just scrambling to pull itself together back in the summer of '41. I called it the IRS, because that's exactly what it was... just a bunch of local forces fueled by national pride and the Anti-fascist Movement.
There it is. The catch is that point 21 isn't even about some "unknown unit" (which was just some intel guy in Washington, D.C. chasing rumors), but the 3rd Battalion of the Primorsko-Goranski Partisan Detachment—I figured that out myself after digging into one officer's name. post #39 in this thread (check out posts #46, 47, etc.). You basically "invented" some term that doesn't exist in any actual records and makes zero sense. Any American who wanted to fight the occupiers and their lackeys joined the National Liberation Movement or the NOVJ, which were founded and ran by the Communist Party. There weren't any other units. It doesn't matter what your personal feelings or sympathies are—that's just how it happened.
Where I messed up—and where lonetrucker4 could have steered me away from it, I'll admit—was using the term IRS.
You already tripped up by passing off that acronym like it actually shows up in some official document. Even when I pointed it out, you just casually admitted you made it up and kept doubling down. You "invented" the idea that the term AFP is somehow "more precise" than just saying "Partisans." (post #4) And here you are, a year later, doing the exact same thing.
And look, once again, you're proving you just refuse to grasp the basics.
The official name for the armed forces of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia was the Yugoslav Royal Army. In this specific thread, I used the term JKVO / Yugoslav Royal Government in exile, and lonetrucker4 warned me not to because the term used was YVA / Yugoslav Army in the Homeland...
So what? How does that change anything? Where am I losing the context?
It changes everything, because the official name of that military was the "Yugoslav Army in the Homeland" (and by the way, it's "Yugoslav," not "Jugoslav"). Look, you can't just cook up your own names. It isn't "unnecessary rigidity" like you're complaining about. It's necessary precision. You stick to the facts; you're allowed to interpret them however you want.
Anyway, am I even allowed to express myself on this Reddit how I see fit?
No, not if you're just spreading confusion and making stuff up.