Forgiveness vs. Ego: How do you let go?
in Spirituality ·
dustyraven26 said:
My focus here was intended to address more subtle issues—the kind of problems that don't quite qualify as "crimes," yet can still trigger immense stress, drive people apart, or lead to fractured relationships (all of which can stem from an inability to forgive or, conversely, from being too subservient to a bruised ego). In this light, I find myself at odds with Mr. Voltaire.
When discussing more heinous crimes, I am not necessarily asserting that Voltaire is correct, but such cases certainly invite a much deeper discussion.
Alright, fine, because based on what you just said—that "it’s not their fault, it’s just their environment"—it sounds like you're basically arguing that nobody is actually responsible for their own actions.
I’d really like to emphasize the word "responsibility" here, rather than "guilt."
Personal responsibility isn't some level playing field. It’s impossible to compare someone who grew up surrounded by trauma and toxic motives to someone raised in a healthy, spiritually grounded environment where they were actually taught values like empathy and tolerance. I know I'm just looking at two extremes here, but the point still stands. At the start, we all begin on level ground—just humans with the exact same baseline potential. We try our best to live by values like love, tolerance, empathy, and understanding, genuinely believing they're worth cultivating within ourselves—but let’s be real, the environment we grow up in and the way we're raised inevitably corrupt those ideals, more or less, as we evolve.
I honestly think personal responsibility kicks in somewhere around that same age for everyone—roughly at the same time, regardless of how you were raised or what kind of environment you grew up in.
The moment we actually realize that our actions carry consequences, that’s when we finally become responsible for every single choice we make.
People who grew up in toxic environments or just never had the right upbringing tend to lack basic empathy—it’s like they aren't even capable of taking responsibility for their own actions.
Even if you strip away their humanity, they still know exactly what they're doing and the fallout they'll cause. At the end of the day, it's their own choice.
I honestly believe our primary responsibility lies in the environment we build and the legacy we leave behind for those following us, specifically through how we shape and raise the next generation.
You’re talking about being responsible for others, but I was actually asking about personal accountability. People lean on their circumstances way too often just to dodge the consequences of their own mistakes or bad behavior.
I guess you could say this doesn't have much to do with forgiveness, but still...
What does it actually mean to forgive?
Is the ultimate goal really just to make yourself feel good?
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Look, I’ll put it this way... instead of constantly talking about forgiveness, maybe we should focus on mindfulness—both toward ourselves and everyone else. It's more about actually accepting and understanding why people mess up in the first place.
To me, the word "forgiveness" just feels like a polite way of saying you're discarding someone—like you're erasing them or just canceling out what happened entirely. Personally, I’ve never been able to stomach that kind of logic.
I don't buy this whole idea of having sins wiped clean. You can't just erase them; you have to live with them, whether they're your own messes or someone else's. I think true peace comes from finding a way to carry that weight, not from pretending it never happened.
This thread was always more about those smaller, nagging issues—the kind that don't quite reach the level of actual crimes but still mess with your head. We’re talking about things that trigger stress, drive people apart, and leave relationships a total wreck, usually because someone's nursing a bruised ego instead of just practicing a little forgiveness. In that sense, I have to say I disagree with Voltaire.
When it comes to the most heinous crimes, I’m still not saying Voltaire is absolutely right, but there is definitely some room for debate in those kinds of situations.
It’s honestly ridiculous how people take Voltaire's words and use them to justify some of the most heinous crimes you can imagine.
If you look at things through a slightly more flexible lens, isn't every single action that ultimately triggers stress... a "crime"? 🤷
The way I see it, he’s basically saying that if you close your eyes, you're just clearing the path for more "crimes" to happen.
Most people find comfort in the delusion that they are merely reacting to their surroundings, a convenient mental shortcut that allows them to shift the weight of personal responsibility onto the world at large.
If one assumes that human beings merely react to their surroundings, then the very concept of agency evaporates; if we are nothing more than mirrors reflecting our environment, we must ask where true action originates, especially when that environment is constructed by the collective presence of other people.
The answer lies in the simple fact that human agency is fundamentally driven by our attempts to reshape the world around us to suit our needs; every such endeavor constitutes an act of will. It is within this continuous process of adaptation and intervention that our true responsibility resides.
Actually, I would argue that we might find more value in shifting our focus; rather than dwelling on the concept of forgiveness, perhaps it is more productive to speak in terms of mindfulness—specifically, maintaining a sense of consideration toward both ourselves and those around us through a genuine acceptance and understanding of flawed actions.
To me, the word "forgiveness" carries a certain weight that feels more like rejection or erasure—as if one is simply canceling out an action or deleting a debt—which is a concept I find personally quite unappealing.
I don't subscribe to the notion of erasing sins; one simply learns to live with them, whether they are our own or those of others. It is within that acceptance, rather than through forced forgetting, that a true sense of peace and composure is eventually found.
Understanding is everything. When true understanding is achieved, there is no sense of being wounded, which effectively eliminates the need for forgiveness. Injury only creates a conflict within oneself: whether one should forgive or not.
To truly grasp the nature of other people, one must first achieve a profound understanding of oneself. This isn't about indulging the ego or crafting convenient justifications; rather, it requires an honest investigation into the specific conditions that have shaped who we are. In uncovering that truth, one realizes that everyone else is similarly conditioned by their own unique circumstances. Ultimately, our varying reactions to the world are merely reflections of our individual, subjective perceptions of reality.
Well, that's not quite right.
I can see how and why—what kind of motives or lack thereof led you to do something—and I accept that, just as much as I accept the fact that it hurt me.
But you're going to have to understand and accept that last part too.😁
It shouldn't be one without the other... otherwise, the whole thing is pretty much pointless.
To me, forgiveness feels totally hollow if that's the case.
