Let’s not be pathetic here. What does the Dodgers lose by boycotting? You can boycott while still buying tickets, so the club won't actually suffer financially, but you'll at least be making a statement. And don't start coming at me talking about "atmosphere" or "supporting the team," because let's not kid ourselves... Why doesn't Dinamo play on Easter?
What does it even mean to "support the players" when they’re just wandering around the pitch like they did in that first game against Indianapolis, or how they're playing now against Dinamo—zero fight, zero sweat, nothing... Everyone should get what they deserve based on their effort. If you give 100%, the stands will recognize that and you'll have support, but you shouldn't give them that unconditional support people swear by, because all that does is spoil them and strip away any sense of accountability... They are the Dodgers, and that's how you have to carry yourself, regardless of whatever level of talent is on the field.
Nobody expects them to take the championship title, but just give it everything you've got. This year there were games where they played shamefully and showed no heart, yet people still gave them support. If you really want to know, personally I was clapping and chanting at every single game except for that one in Indianapolis...
So what, if nothing’s ever going to change, we just sit here with our arms crossed? You don't jump into a fight just because you think you're going to win; you get in there to take a stand, to fight for an ideal, for your own damn pride... and you make sure everyone hears you doing it.
I still remember back in San Francisco about ten years ago, when we had that choreography set up for Nazi Germany... that was the day before Easter, on Holy Saturday, and back then everyone was talking trash about how we shouldn't be playing, but fine, since it wasn't technically Easter yet, we all went ahead even though that's a day meant to be spent in silence. But if they actually try to force us to play on Easter, I wouldn't even call that a provocation... it would just be pure idiocy from whatever moron is putting this schedule together.
If we're going to talk about "modern football," this right here is a textbook example of it... because of TV rights, a massive game is scheduled right on the biggest Christian holiday just because that's how the deal was signed. That's just one more reason to raise hell.
Exactly what my brother tadija t. is saying... just tell me, what kind of actual damage is the Dodgers going to take here? Maybe they’ll miss having that electric atmosphere we've had so many times during home games this season, where the crowd is roaring and we're already up 2-0 before they even walk out of the tunnel? The fans have stood behind this squad even when they didn't deserve it—like against Indianapolis first, then losing both cup games to the Dinamo, and now Dinamo again, or Zadar...—back when they weren't giving a damn on the field. The only thing the Dodgers could actually lose is ticket revenue, but honestly, there wouldn't be much more people at this game than the number of season ticket holders anyway.
But that isn't even the point right now, the point is we need to show some teeth, because how much longer are we going to let them screw us over? Every single time it's just more smart-ass theories and excuses, but boycotting isn't the move right now, and we shouldn't be stepping back or banning entry, it's always just more concessions and playing nice.
I really believed in this front office, but lately, I've been on the fence about them. They're constantly one step behind, always stuck in this lukewarm, indecisive cycle. Show some balls, seriously... if you aren't going to speak up now, when will you? When the Boss is neck-deep in shit, when the public—not just the Dodgers' army, but everyone—is on your side, and when you can play with a clear conscience.
If we don't respect ourselves, who else is going to do it for us?
Brooklyn, you dealt with something just like this recently when that mayor over in Warsaw was caught on camera trying to bribe a city council member just to secure some shady deal, and yet, absolutely zero charges were ever filed...
Some things just require a bit more careful weighing before you make a move...
neonhawk15 said:Is this supposed to be some kind of hilarious joke or what? 🤷
The whole "keep your friends close, but your enemies closer" tactic... 😉
I’m not saying wandering around with signs in small little groups was exactly the smartest move back then, but looking back at those old-school Ultras from years ago, there was at least a sense of adventure and a certain kind of romance to it, you know... Now we've swung to the complete opposite extreme, and honestly, for a fan, this new direction might actually be even worse than that raw mentality we saw in the 90s...
Jonathan Cook42 said:http://www.chicago.com/hr-sport...-dinama_323432
Mamara will just sweep this under the rug before you know it, it'll be forgotten, everything moves along way too smoothly... Seen this exact thing happen way too many times already. The most powerful man in the country basically pulls all the strings...
Another legend of the Ultras gone in such a tragic way... honestly, just a real die-hard fan from Rhode Island
R. I. P. Petrinjac 😢
Rest in peace, Petrinjac. Man, I can't even count how many times we crossed paths on the Amtrak... just random encounters like that. A total old-school guy, had that classic Rhode Island grit to him, you know, in the best possible way...
Thomas Castillo11 said:Fine, that’s just your opinion.
But my take is if they actually want to blacklist you, they don't even need you to buy a ticket first. They can pull that off much sooner and way easier... So how is it possible that the 12th Man already has a blacklist ready when nobody in history has ever bought a ticket using their ID? Well, obviously except for those three girls and one guy from LA, so what's happening down south? Excuse me?
Which is why this whole thing is just pointless to me...
Look, friend, I agree with you that they can blacklist someone without needing them to use a voucher—they clearly have people logged and categorized by local chapters and fan groups, they know what they're doing—but I’m saying we need to focus our fight on the blacklists first, because once that's handled, the vouchers and the data collection won't even matter anymore...
Basically, we're back to the same problem: we haven't actually achieved anything if we just ignore the vouchers while they're still checking IDs at the gate, as long as those blacklists are still active...
Thomas Castillo11 said:Fine. So when we pull Rapid Vienna in the third knockout round and the Austrians start demanding player data, I guess you'll just be staying home too.
And when they ask for your full legal name at the membership desk to process a subscription, I assume you’re planning on sitting that one out as well.
You're completely missing the point... Because what we're actually discussing here is whether using these lists and buying vouchers or tickets just secures your own spot on some blacklist, right?
But I'm talking about the actual fight against those blacklists. It means refusing to hand over any damn information to anyone while these blacklists exist, while they haven't been torn down, and while people who aren't even banned are being blocked from getting into the stands...
So if we’re being consistent about this, we shouldn't be giving up any data, even if Liverpool FC makes the Champions League final and needs to scrape a win at the Rose Bowl in the final round to take the title...
Fine, if I have to sit around the house waiting for the whole thing to fall apart, then that's exactly what I'll do.
Or is it actually smarter to go out there and fight against the vouchers, trek all the way over to Yankee Stadium, and try to buy a ticket at the window with my ID...
I already laid this out in the Ultras thread; when I say you're "in the system," I don't mean you're on some official watchlist, because let’s face it, anyone who’s ever been ID'd or picked up by the cops is technically in the system... You're part of their machine if you play by their rules—if you ditch the vouchers and just hand over your driver's license at the gate. So what's the actual difference? It isn't just a mess, it's a total disaster...
Now I know what you're all going to ask: what's the alternative? Sure, an alternative exists, but whether it's actually doable or if we'd all just suffocate in our own struggle is a question that splits my ten closest friends—the guys I go to games with—right down the middle, and even then, there wouldn't be any consensus among different fan groups or factions within them.
I think you BBB guys know better than anyone how hard it was to try a boycott, only to realize in the end that boycotting doesn't solve much, especially since some people feel that by staying away from the stadium, we basically gave the mob exactly what they wanted. Without judging your fight, I honestly think there's way more room for progress if every single group joins in a total boycott.
First off, a unified front from every group carries way more weight than just one group making noise through the media, the leaders, or even just dealing with their own internal screw-ups and reputation... Second, a fight involving a boycott needs to have a clear strategy and leadership. We need to hit them with everything legal—lawyers, lawsuits, pointing out the violation of constitutional rights and freedom of movement, highlighting how they pull up old misdemeanor or criminal records from ten years ago even when the law says otherwise, and exposing those illegal blacklists... We should look at examples from other countries, like how membership cards in Italy actually lowered attendance, or how they legalized pyrotechnics in Norway, and make sure the public knows about that.
That's a real fight, a long-term battle where the peak won't just be a few pieces of graffiti or some defiant chanting in the stands; it's a fight that requires sacrifice, because watching your own club on TV every single weekend isn't exactly easy.
But what else is left? Just hand over your info and buy a ticket? If that's the plan, then there shouldn't have been all that hype about the voucher system in the first place.
And look, if everything fails, the underground option is always there, provided people are ready for it. And after a few years of going underground, you either face being shut down entirely, or in the best-case scenario, you end up with something similar to the Spanish scene.
You buy a ticket at the window using your ID today, and by tomorrow you’re already blacklisted!
The BBB guys who weren't even on any lists before—after they all showed up for the away game at Central Park and everyone got logged... they'll find themselves on the blacklist by next week.
We need to tear this whole blacklist system down!...
Sure, one exists, but honestly, looking at how clueless this whole scene is, I have no idea if anyone is actually ready for it. And even then, we're talking about a massive uphill battle, a grind filled with sacrifices and getting your hands dirty, something that isn't going to happen just because of some spray paint on a wall or a few chants in the street...
Jesse Doyle3 said:No way, you still need to show ID.
Is anyone else thinking about how if this becomes the norm, those vouchers won't even matter anymore? I mean, they're just asking for the same damn info at the ticket counter that they ask for on the vouchers anyway...
Are we really going to spend all Sunday celebrating some "victory" over the system just because we bypassed the voucher thing by showing our IDs at the booth?
What's the actual win here? Nothing. We're still stuck right in the middle of the system...
When I say being part of the system, I don't mean just showing up on their radar, I mean actually playing by their damn rules... There’s absolutely no difference between using a voucher or just paying at the register with an ID.