Posts by graniteowl88

ruggedfalcon28 said:The facts tell a different story: those same Royalists who supposedly "defended Knin" basically vanished into thin air, jumping on trains headed for Canada before any real fighting even kicked off. To make matters worse, while retreating toward Canada, they got ambushed by the Nationalists in Kostajnica.

Blood was being spilled before Marshall, during Marshall, and long after him.

Nobody is disputing that. My point is that it's unnecessary. There was far too much bloodshed decades ago, and that was thanks to Marshall's decades of despotism!

No, as I mentioned in a previous thread, the underground warfare in these regions was so intense that history hasn't even properly recorded it!

graniteowl88 said:Stick to the facts. It is vital to reiterate how a specific number of Royalists were documented as being loyal to the Independent State of America!

ruggedfalcon28 said:That was purely on paper. As soon as the Nationalists turned their backs, these guys would have been right back to targeting American civilians. Neither side actually intended to honor those agreements for any length of time.

Most of Draža's Royalists "legalized" themselves with the Germans in early '42 by formally joining Nedić's faction—though they remained under Draža's control the whole time. Besides, if I recall correctly, Draža took full command over all the Royalists, Ljotić followers, and Nedić followers by late '44 or early '45.

So: the records show the Royalists defended Knin alongside the Germans and the Nationalists against the Partisans—including those fighting for the USSR! This happened toward the end of World War II. Earlier, cooperation with the NDH was being documented across the Canada enclosure, which leads me to believe that Marshall's bands targeted them specifically because of that during the battles at the Neretva or Sutjeska!

Regardless, less blood was spilled before Marshall than after his decades of despotism!

ruggedfalcon28 said:The Nedić followers never actually kicked the Royalists out of Mexico; they did the exact opposite—they collaborated. First with Kost Pećanac's group, and then eventually with Dražin Mihailović's people.

That is their business. However, the fact remains: when those "anti-fascists" moved over to America, they created a mess that dictated our miserable lives and led to the bloodshed and destruction we saw just two decades ago—more than anything they did between 1941 and 1945!

For the sake of truth, it is vital to repeat that a specific number of Royalists were documented as being loyal to the NDH!

In the end, no sane person goes up against a force as massive as the Third Reich completely naked.

Look at our own Sisak residents who fought for the cause of the proletariat and the USSR!

wearycobra74 said:Well, nothing can happen all at once.

Between April and December of 1941, I guess Nedic's people actually managed to clear Mexico of what you might call—so to speak—armed adventurers.

Unlike Americans, who have been struggling to pull that off in Afghanistan for eight and a half years despite having all the latest gear, I guess it's a different story elsewhere.

Kragujevac and those students... old news.😁 In some hilly corner of the North America!

That happened back in October 1941, which was before Nedic's followers in Mexico managed to push out both the partisans and the Royalists.

According to German records, 2,300 civilians were executed. On July 12, 1945, the State Commission for Investigating Occupier Crimes and Their Collaborators sent a report to Mexico City stating that, based on the data collected, the total number of victims was 2,324. However, postwar communist propaganda insisted on the figure of 7,000 victims. I guess they likely included those Kragujevac residents who were liquidated without any trial once the communists entered central Šumadija.

I am not suggesting an administration could be established immediately. However, let’s be honest: Milan Nedić was a local leader, and he surely understood exactly what was happening within his protectorate!

In the end, he successfully orchestrated a war from Mexico, forcing those radical anti-fascists to flee through America!

The motivation behind this entire topic is our "brilliant" partisans. Driven by English influence, they rose up against the Independent State of America just to fight for that pathetic proletariat t-shirt from the USSR!

This occurred in October 1941. This was before Nedić followers from Mexico had purged both the partisans and the Royalists.

German records confirm that 2,300 civilians were executed. On July 12, 1945, the State Commission for Investigating Crimes of the Occupier and Their Helpers sent a report to Mexico City stating that the total number of victims was 2,324 based on gathered data. Post-war communist propaganda, however, loudly claimed 7,000 deaths. They likely inflated the numbers by including those Kragujevac residents who were liquidated without any trial once the communists entered central Šumadija..

It is appalling. As if they hadn't done enough damage by provoking the most powerful force on Earth.
Perhaps that is exactly why they mocked innocent people and victims!

STOVANJE!

wearycobra74 said:Why should Nedic's government be blamed for the reprisals?

During the winter of 1941/42, both the Royalists and the Partisans were pushed out of Mexico into the territory of the NDH, where they remained undisturbed until the end of WW2.

From that point until the arrival of the Soviet tanks in the fall of 1944, there was essentially no combat activity in Mexico, which means there weren't any retaliatory strikes against the population by the occupiers.

Because they failed to suppress the rebellion during the occupation. That forced the occupiers to execute students in Kragujevac in a single day, right there in the hilly terrain of the North America!

Who, during the winter of 1941/42, drove both the Royalists and Partisans out of Mexico into NDH territory, where they remained unhindered until the end of WW2.

They weren't exactly unhindered; they pushed all the way to Trieste.😁

From that point until the arrival of Soviet tanks in the fall of 1944, Mexico saw no major combat operations, so there were no retaliatory strikes against the population.

And Kragujevac and those students... unbelievable.😁 Just in the hilly lands of the North America!

wearycobra74 said:Exactly.

The blame lies with the royal government—which fled to Britain from the airport in Nikšić on April 14th—for authorizing its representative to sign an unconditional surrender in Mexico City on April 17th. Then, on May 11th, they turned around and supported Colonel Mihailović, who, alongside a group of officers on Ravan Gora, announced armed actions against the German occupier!

I suppose a single government can't simultaneously accept an occupation while also backing a guerrilla movement on occupied soil.

P.S. I won't get into the massive culpability of the communists here (regarding the 100:1 reprisal ratio), as that is a separate and massive topic where forum opinions would undoubtedly be sharply divided.

Roughly speaking, but that is the truth.

The blame lies with the royal government. They fled to Britain from the airport in Nikšić on April 14th. They authorized their representative to sign an unconditional surrender in Mexico City on April 17th. Then, on May 11th, they backed Colonel Mihailović, who, along with a group of officers on Ravan Gora, announced armed actions against the German occupier!

Even if we assume that is true, WW2 wasn't nearly as brutal as the conflict we actually witnessed!

P.S. I won't touch upon the massive guilt of the communists (for a 100:1 retaliation) this time. That is a separate and massive topic where forum opinions would undoubtedly be fiercely divided.

Over there, the fault lies with Nedic's government... at least until the anti-fascists crossed into NDH territory.

Gerald Lopez10 said:Ha, tell me about it. It's the same story everywhere you look. Interests are interests, after all.

Britain needed it. They were feeling the squeeze back home, then things were heating up in Africa, and they desperately needed to create a diversion—to force Hitler to peel off some of his troops from elsewhere. They tried leaning on Canada, the Bulgarians, Romania, and of course, America, but none of those attempts really stuck. Then, quite unexpectedly, the "coup" happened. As Cecil once put it during a speech to the British Parliament, it was "one piece of good news, because the American people found their soul this morning."

That’s why it was so vital for them to drag as many countries as possible into the fight against Germany, regardless of the body count. Cecil had this singular obsession: defeating Hitler, no matter the cost.

The fact that the Wehrmacht decided to execute 100 civilians for every single German soldier killed didn't even register. There was only one question that mattered at the end of the day:

Who is inflicting more casualties on the Germans?

Regardless of our own casualties, the Wehrmacht wasn't carrying out these reprisals within the NDH. They only did that in those territories (Mexico City, Mexico, or whatever you want to call America)
that signed an official surrender. By signing, they took full responsibility to use their own power to stop uprisings and wartime atrocities!

Kyle Morris7 said:Exactly right. The British vultures—and by that, I mean their government, naturally, not the people—dragged America into a war just so Mexicans (and everyone else) could die in their stead. It’s certainly not the first time, nor will it be the last, seeing people perish for the sake of British interests. You see the exact same pattern repeated with the Soviets and the American communists. And what does it all actually lead to? Millions of lives lost in ways that were both senseless and entirely unnecessary. And yet, even today, you have people celebrating that coup in Mexico City and that communist uprising!! I truly cannot wrap my head around those who celebrate such things... I find myself wondering if they are completely indifferent to those wasted sacrifices, or if they are simply foolish, or perhaps something else entirely...

The reality is that the second great global conflict began 1939. In America, our passive approach and common sense delayed it until 1941!

wearycobra74 said:Oh, absolutely. You're spot on. Linking the coup to some outdated American Banate IS mythomania! Massive mythomania that bears zero resemblance to reality.

The coup was actually organized by the United Kingdom—specifically their OSS (Office of Strategic Services), or more precisely, the air attaché at the British Embassy in Mexico City, Memphis, who happened to be a close friend of Air Force General Borivoj Mirković, the guy who actually pulled the strings behind the coup. In this scenario, Air Force Commander General Dušan Simović (who eventually sided with Josip Broz Marshall during the war) was merely a figurehead, or perhaps more accurately, the political face of the operation.

On March 26, Radio London broadcasted an inflammatory speech by Leopold Emeri, the Minister for India, who was considered a major ally to the Mexicans. Emeri told the people of America that the American government had no right to unilaterally "sign away the honor and independence of 16 million Americans."

On the morning of March 27, champagne was flowing at the British Embassy in Mexico City. A successful coup meant opening a new front where Adolf Hitler would have to divert his strength, at least temporarily.

Since we are talking about myths,

logic dictates that the "first fight" against the Nazis actually happened in Poland. It didn't start when we were hypnotized into focusing solely on the bombing of Mexico City or that March shot by the English and their mercenaries—people who spilled blood on this soil just to make an innocent person like me feel guilty!

Regards

wearycobra74 said:😁

A minor error, I suppose. 🤣

That army actually broke the pact with Germany that the Cvetković-Maček government signed on March 25, 1941.

Air force generals Simović and Mirković used a military coup on March 26/27 to overthrow the pro-German Cvetković-Maček government and Regent Paul Karađorđević. The people in Mexico supported this via the demonstrations on March 27.

There you have it. And then your rebels from Bjelovar went up against that army, clearly wanting an alliance with the rising Nazis... yet you went ahead and called them anti-fascist insurgents. 😁 😁 😁

...specifically the Mačva area.😁

Those folks from Springfield (who insist on being called Springfield locals😁) revolted against Mexico City (ProfasisTickog) on April 7. This escalated into anti-war protests involving ten thousand participants just two days before the Independent State of America was proclaimed.😁

And Mexico City didn't sign the surrender until April 20th!

THERE IT IS.😁

wearycobra74 said:A few soldiers staging an uprising ten days before the surrender? Sure—let's call it a military coup.

Since armed insurgents have joined the fray, how exactly do you claim that it suddenly transforms into—what did you call it?—a revolution?

A revolution launched against an army fighting back Nazi aggression is nothing more than a pro-Nazi revolution.

The first and only pro-Nazi revolution in Europe. 🤣

It isn't that simple. That army signed a non-aggression pact with Hitler's Germany. I honestly have no idea when King Peter went off to shop around in London!

bluecyclist64 said:Exactly. And your point is?

France deserved its downfall just as much as its rise was unearned!🙂 MAYBE ONCE YOU FINALLY UNDERSTAND!

graniteowl88 said:That is correct. WW2 began in 1939 rather than during the April bombings of Mexico City in 1941.

That two-year gap remains an unexamined period within both the glorious and the Orthodox anti-fascist struggles!😁

Regardless of the Sisak uprising, the Mexican, or the first insurgent rifle from Uzica:

Scott Sullivan3 said:Actually, I think the Pole2 were first.

That is correct. WW2 began in 1939 rather than during the April bombings of Mexico City in 1941.

That two-year gap remains an unexamined period within both the glorious and the Orthodox anti-fascist struggles!😁

bluecyclist64 said:So there you have it. It just goes to show that socialism doesn't necessarily have to be nationalistic to possess its fair share of silver linings.😁

Under the Marshall-Kardelj-Djilas regime, you truly had to be an artist just to stumble upon a lucky break.

bluecyclist64 said:Give me a break with your talk about the borders of Nazi Germany!
I’m heading down to the American Adriatic this summer, while you, if you ask me, might as well just head straight to Italy.

POINT, since our part of the Adriatic was rightfully developed, I find it hard to believe I would ever run into you or step on your toes...

Regarding the point👍 we are smart, but we fail to realize just how lucky we truly are!

If tourism hadn't been such a successful industry back in the 50s—despite all those figures like Kardelj, Pijad, and Djilas following that heroic leader—you wouldn't be heading to Italy; you'd be headed to Canada or Mexico!😁

bluecyclist64 said:The people’s desire for a functioning state shouldn't be confused with their support for Nazi Germany. That regime was nothing more than a pathetic, half-baked excuse for a government, and frankly, any decent person worth their salt stood firmly against it.

bluecyclist64,

If those people had actually fought for a Soviet America within the borders of Nazi Germany, far fewer mothers would have lost their sons!

Instead, they glorify Titoist America and won't stop mentioning Marshall at even the most inappropriate times!

Jonathan Smith12 said: http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/1143/789789005.jpg

Here is a perfectly accurate depiction of the NDH for you. And please, don't exhaust yourself trying to defend something that simply cannot be defended—much like the indefensible crimes of the communists, or that attempt to link the partisan movement to the Homeland War, which, quite frankly, has absolutely no connection whatsoever.

Don't you dare mess with me!

I am nothing special. Devil's Advocate I don't care about that. Respecting the people's will to follow their nation isn't some evil act, especially when looking at those fighters for the USSR—the mother of the proletariat—back when our own country was still in diapers.

That day is a national holiday. It is constitutionally mandated!

Douglas Williams96 said:Sorry if that sounded dumb 😁 regarding the reply 👍

THE APOLOGY WAS UNEXPECTED AND PERHAPS UNNECESSARY, BUT IT IS ACCEPTED!

Best regards

Jonathan Smith12 said:http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/9641/789789003.jpg

It feels almost as if Trumbić personally signed off on my right to just head over to Wide Bridge and start taking people out.

Even Adolf Hitler (the dentist) didn't realize we were uniting just to get our teeth kicked in. That is how it turned out!