2017 NASCAR Season

Ever since 2014, Mercedes-Benz hasn't really had to sweat the small stuff when it comes to race strategy—I mean, their car was just in a league of its own back then.

But lately? It feels like the cracks are finally starting to show. They’re absolutely shredding through their tires, and when things get intense, their tactical decisions seem to crumble under the pressure.

On the flip side, what’s truly caught me off guard is Ferrari. They've been looking absolutely flawless.

jadeseal7 said:Ever since 2014, Mercedes-Benz hasn't really had to sweat the small stuff when it comes to race strategy—I mean, their car was just in a league of its own back then.

But lately? It feels like the cracks are finally starting to show. They’re absolutely shredding through their tires, and when things get intense, their tactical decisions seem to crumble under the pressure.

On the flip side, what’s truly caught me off guard is Ferrari. They've been looking absolutely flawless.

I wouldn't say that, especially since Vettel's race engineer is Riccardo Adami. 😁
Everyone's known since his days at Red Bull Racing who his engineer was, and back then they already had solid tactics and ran a tight ship. 👍

Plus, I'm sure Jock Clear has settled in by now too, so none of this is really a surprise...

The only weak link is Kimi and his race engineer, David Greenwood. I don't get that kid, honestly...
The two of them are bickering more and more on the team radio, and clearly, he’s just running some copy-paste strategy and nothing else. 🤦

neonfox65 said:Has he still not managed to pull off a win after starting from 3rd or worse? 🙂

Nope. And honestly, I'm not even sure he ever will...
If he actually pulls that off, he’ll probably just retire on the spot.

Think about why I said what I said. Once it clicks, let me know. 😉
But don't bother reaching out before then. ☕

stormybadger8 said:I wouldn't say that, especially since Vettel's race engineer is Riccardo Adami. 😁
Everyone's known since his days at Red Bull Racing who his engineer was, and back then they already had solid tactics and ran a tight ship. 👍

Plus, I'm sure Jock Clear has settled in by now too, so none of this is really a surprise...

The only weak link is Kimi and his race engineer, David Greenwood. I don't get that kid, honestly...
The two of them are bickering more and more on the team radio, and clearly, he’s just running some copy-paste strategy and nothing else. 🤦

If you ask me, race engineers aren't actually calling the strategy; that's someone else's job. Their focus is on the car's condition and what's happening out on the track.

Drew Bennett68 said:If you ask me, race engineers aren't actually calling the strategy; that's someone else's job. Their focus is on the car's condition and what's happening out on the track.

Doesn't sound all that logical to me...

Strategy is definitely set before the race starts—you’ve got Plan A, Plan B, target laps, all that stuff.
But obviously, making mid-race adjustments based on what's happening on the asphalt is up to the driver and the race engineer. Anything else would be way too slow to react in real time.

ruggedhawk20 said:Don't forget—if Antonio Giovinazzi hadn't pulled that stupid stunt in China and caused a safety car, Vettel probably would've walked away with 3 wins in 3 races

And that's something nobody saw coming.

Mercedes-Benz still has the fastest car, but they aren't used to anyone actually breathing down their necks. Once someone starts pressing them, they clearly start tripping over themselves. It's no wonder they've just been coasting for the last 3 years. Get it? They aren't used to the pressure.

We'll see how it all plays out this season.

It's a good thing they have Hamilton. He doesn't necessarily need a lightning-fast car to beat Vettel; he just needs a reliable machine that actually allows him to push.

You all spent the last 20 laps watching a miracle, and yet you still seem confused about what you witnessed. The only issue was that he switched into that "click mode" far too late.

You're going to witness miracles this season. You truly are a privileged generation.

mellowtiger83 said:It's a good thing they have Hamilton. He doesn't necessarily need a lightning-fast car to beat Vettel; he just needs a reliable machine that actually allows him to push.

You all spent the last 20 laps watching a miracle, and yet you still seem confused about what you witnessed. The only issue was that he switched into that "click mode" far too late.

You're going to witness miracles this season. You truly are a privileged generation.

Miracles? What miracles?

He had fresher tires and a completely clear track ahead of him.

Vettel wasn't even pushing hard, he just ran straight into traffic. Once Hamilton closed the gap to six seconds, Vettel stepped on it, and they were either matching times or Hamilton was marginally faster.

It's all smoke and mirrors, really. If it had been Rosberg behind the wheel instead of Bottas, Hamilton would've ended up in third place.

jadeseal7 said:Miracles? What miracles?

He had fresher tires and a completely clear track ahead of him.

Vettel wasn't even pushing hard, he just ran straight into traffic. Once Hamilton closed the gap to six seconds, Vettel stepped on it, and they were either matching times or Hamilton was marginally faster.

It's all smoke and mirrors, really. If it had been Rosberg behind the wheel instead of Bottas, Hamilton would've ended up in third place.

Actually, once he hit that 6-second gap and Vettel stepped on it, Vettel was half a second faster. They definitely didn't have matching times.😉

stormybadger8 said:Actually, once he hit that 6-second gap and Vettel stepped on it, Vettel was half a second faster. They definitely didn't have matching times.😉

The reason is simple: Ham was stuck in traffic during the lap you're referencing. He backed off early because he saw there was no point. If this race had gone five laps longer, we could have looked at comparable split times, and I wouldn't be surprised if he left Vettel sitting right in his diffuser.

Someone mentioned that Ham had fresher tires. Sure, but they weren't significantly newer by lap count. The man carved twenty seconds out of Vettel and Bottas in a single stint. If we set aside Vettel—who likely wasn't even pushing to the limit—we're looking at Bottas, whom Hamilton didn't just beat by ten seconds, but pulled fourteen seconds ahead of by the finish.

Aside from the rubber, someone brought up clear track conditions. He had just as much open air as the two drivers ahead of him.

You all want to watch a spectacle, a full-tilt sprint without worrying about tire degradation or fuel loads. I am telling you, when Hamilton doesn't have to manage his resources, he is the premier driver in Formula 1. In those raw, uncalculated conditions, he is peerless.

Then there is the mention of Rosberg. Of course he’s in a different league compared to Bottas or that erratic Raikkonen. At the very least, he would have secured Pole position without compromising his race setup. I have said this repeatedly: Rosberg was a qualifying alien throughout his entire career. That is precisely where his dominance over Bottas lies, even if they did possess equal race pace—which, let's be honest, they don't.

mellowtiger83, you seem to be getting a bit lost in your allegiances here... It’s funny how the logic works, isn't it? When Hamilton is out there managing his engine and tires while maintaining total control over the race, suddenly he’s a tactical genius. But when Vettel does the exact same thing, we’re expected to act like Hamilton is some kind of alien just because he managed to close the gap, even if he didn't actually overtake him. ☕

William Bennett53 said:mellowtiger83, you seem to be getting a bit lost in your allegiances here... It’s funny how the logic works, isn't it? When Hamilton is out there managing his engine and tires while maintaining total control over the race, suddenly he’s a tactical genius. But when Vettel does the exact same thing, we’re expected to act like Hamilton is some kind of alien just because he managed to close the gap, even if he didn't actually overtake him. ☕

Well, whether Vettel is a genius or an alien, it doesn't change the reality of the situation.

In certain aspects, he's better than Hamilton; in others, he's worse. It's all quite close, really.

When you look at raw pace on track—when there's no need to baby the tires or conserve fuel—he might be slightly behind.

I think you've misread the situation. It would be wise to watch those final 20 laps Hamilton drives. Just because Vettel didn't have to manage things on a particular day doesn't mean he hasn't done it before or won't do it again.

If you look closely enough, the two of them are actually quite similar. Both are immense talents, and both possess massive egos.

You claim Vettel hasn't performed miracles. Go check the history at Spa-Francorchamps and try to guess which year I'm talking about. He didn't win that one, yet he put on one of the most impressive drives out there during a day where he didn't beat Hamilton.

I never claimed Hamilton was a genius simply because he saved his engine and tires. If anything, he used to be rather tedious. He seems to have lost that edge, almost as if he's matured, which isn't necessarily an improvement.

A championship like this is essentially a marathon. Burning through your Power Unit unnecessarily when the rules limit you to four per season—especially when it was blindingly obvious you wouldn't even catch Vettel—was just a massive tactical blunder.

But honestly, I don't think Hamilton will truly wrap his head around that mistake until much later.

At its core, this title fight is a showdown between a reckless driver who risks everything just to snag a single fast lap, and a strategist who knows exactly when to push and when to be calculated in the other segments—it really brings to mind one of those legendary Formula 1 rivalries we all love to talk about.

jadeseal7 said:A championship like this is essentially a marathon. Burning through your Power Unit unnecessarily when the rules limit you to four per season—especially when it was blindingly obvious you wouldn't even catch Vettel—was just a massive tactical blunder.

But honestly, I don't think Hamilton will truly wrap his head around that mistake until much later.

At its core, this title fight is a showdown between a reckless driver who risks everything just to snag a single fast lap, and a strategist who knows exactly when to push and when to be calculated in the other segments—it really brings to mind one of those legendary Formula 1 rivalries we all love to talk about.

😲No comment. I hope you actually understand what you just wrote.

mellowtiger83 said:😲No comment. I hope you actually understand what you just wrote.

Oh, I definitely do. And once the inevitable wave of crying from fanboys all over the country starts rolling in after a car gets sidelined by a dead PU, let it be known—that thing could have gone a few more miles if luck had been on our side.☕

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/vi...s_good_for_F1/

Here is an analysis regarding Vettel's driving capabilities.

Your previous post was nothing more than pure fanboyism.

And I have no idea where you got the notion that Hamilton was destroying his Power Unit; perhaps it was simply because he was fast.

By the way, Schumacher and those legendary years have absolutely no connection to Vettel or this current Ferrari era.

There is a massive difference: Schumacher could still perform even when the car was failing him.

mellowtiger83 said:Well, whether Vettel is a genius or an alien, it doesn't change the reality of the situation.

In certain aspects, he's better than Hamilton; in others, he's worse. It's all quite close, really.

When you look at raw pace on track—when there's no need to baby the tires or conserve fuel—he might be slightly behind.

I think you've misread the situation. It would be wise to watch those final 20 laps Hamilton drives. Just because Vettel didn't have to manage things on a particular day doesn't mean he hasn't done it before or won't do it again.

If you look closely enough, the two of them are actually quite similar. Both are immense talents, and both possess massive egos.

You claim Vettel hasn't performed miracles. Go check the history at Spa-Francorchamps and try to guess which year I'm talking about. He didn't win that one, yet he put on one of the most impressive drives out there during a day where he didn't beat Hamilton.

I never claimed Hamilton was a genius simply because he saved his engine and tires. If anything, he used to be rather tedious. He seems to have lost that edge, almost as if he's matured, which isn't necessarily an improvement.

I mean, Formula 1 has never really been some kind of wild brawl, and honestly, I don't think there’s ever been an era where tire management or fuel consumption wasn't a massive deal.
At the end of the day, the winner is just the person who crosses the finish line first, and usually, that isn't the guy who spent the whole race driving like a maniac without a plan.

mellowtiger83 said:http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/vi...s_good_for_F1/

Here is an analysis regarding Vettel's driving capabilities.

Your previous post was nothing more than pure fanboyism.

And I have no idea where you got the notion that Hamilton was destroying his Power Unit; perhaps it was simply because he was fast.

By the way, Schumacher and those legendary years have absolutely no connection to Vettel or this current Ferrari era.

There is a massive difference: Schumacher could still perform even when the car was failing him.

I think you might have misunderstood which era I was actually referring to.

Hamilton seems to be channeling Senna, who is clearly his idol—whereas while Vettel looks up to Schumacher, I’d argue his calculated style actually reminds me more of Prost. And let's be fair, Schumacher wasn't exactly the "Professor" type of driver—not certainly during those early years in Formula 1.

jadeseal7 said:I think you might have misunderstood which era I was actually referring to.

Hamilton seems to be channeling Senna, who is clearly his idol—whereas while Vettel looks up to Schumacher, I’d argue his calculated style actually reminds me more of Prost. And let's be fair, Schumacher wasn't exactly the "Professor" type of driver—not certainly during those early years in Formula 1.

So, you're saying Hamilton is a superior driver to Vettel?

I have to disagree. Senna and Prost were complete opposites. Hamilton and Vettel, however, share a lot of common ground. Vettel is many things, but he simply isn't a tactical strategist in the vein of Prost.

mellowtiger83 said:So, you're saying Hamilton is a superior driver to Vettel?

I have to disagree. Senna and Prost were complete opposites. Hamilton and Vettel, however, share a lot of common ground. Vettel is many things, but he simply isn't a tactical strategist in the vein of Prost.

Since when did the idea of Senna being better than Prost lead you to that specific conclusion about Hamilton?

We’ll just have to wait and see throughout the season who plays the tactician and who doesn't—we'll see how things unfold, assuming Mercedes-Benz and Ferrari stay neck-and-neck. And if Red Bull Racing decides to join the fray too, well, things are going to get interesting!

Personally, I'm mostly just looking forward to this season; we finally have a genuine fight on our hands. It feels like it's been years since we've seen anything like this.

In my view, Hamilton and Vettel aren't really similar at all. Vettel is such a hard worker—the guy knows almost every single technical aspect of his car, shows up for every single test, stays away from the media spotlight, and so on and so forth.

Hamilton on the other hand...

jadeseal7 said:Since when did the idea of Senna being better than Prost lead you to that specific conclusion about Hamilton?

We’ll just have to wait and see throughout the season who plays the tactician and who doesn't—we'll see how things unfold, assuming Mercedes-Benz and Ferrari stay neck-and-neck. And if Red Bull Racing decides to join the fray too, well, things are going to get interesting!

Personally, I'm mostly just looking forward to this season; we finally have a genuine fight on our hands. It feels like it's been years since we've seen anything like this.

In my view, Hamilton and Vettel aren't really similar at all. Vettel is such a hard worker—the guy knows almost every single technical aspect of his car, shows up for every single test, stays away from the media spotlight, and so on and so forth.

Hamilton on the other hand...

Hamilton is also a hard worker and knows every aspect of the car; in fact, the experts constantly praise him for being an incredibly high-quality development driver with excellent feedback.

Set aside Hamilton's private life; just because he is under the media spotlight doesn't mean it signifies anything of substance.

The whole Senna debate has been discussed for ages. Even if he outperformed Alain Prost in the same car, let's move past point-scoring pedantry and such nonsense. Prost could only have stayed ahead if Ayrton Senna had given up, which happened in very few instances. And no, this isn't myth-making, at least not from my perspective, as I was a supporter of Prost.

Vettel as a tactician? Vettel being exceptionally clever? I could provide twenty or thirty examples to debunk that. Vettel is just as raw as Hamilton and isn't even slightly more calculating than him, nor is he any calmer.