2017 NASCAR Season

Wait, where's Max Verstappen in this poll? You guys didn't seriously write off Red Bull, did you?

silverviper44 said:I'm going with Vettel.

I also think if Vettel ends up winning the championship, Mercedes-Benz will absolutely crush Hamilton and kick him out of the team regardless of his contract just to bring in Fernando Alonso. I’d honestly bet ten bucks on it.

🤣

No way!

neonfox65 said:Wait, where's Max Verstappen in this poll? You guys didn't seriously write off Red Bull, did you?

Nothing from Red Bull this year. Maybe a podium, but I'm not holding my breath for a win.

Just wait until Canada 😉

Sure, Red Bull might take the win, but I honestly think debating whether they can actually clinch the driver's championship at this stage is just a waste of breath. Even though he's significantly less talented, I’d argue that Valtteri Bottas actually stands a better shot at securing this year's title than Max Verstappen. And that's not just because neonfox65 is rooting for him.

neonfox65 said:Wait, where's Max Verstappen in this poll? You guys didn't seriously write off Red Bull, did you?

We didn't write them off. They wrote themselves off with this year's car...

Right now, Red Bull Racing is just dreaming of a podium. A win isn't even on their radar, let alone the championship. They can forget about the title entirely.
Whatever happens in Canada doesn't mean much. Even if they somehow stumble into a podium or pull off a miracle win, they'll still be too far behind in the standings to care. And if they actually do improve enough to fight back, there will be way too many other contenders for those podium spots for them to grab them consistently.
Plus, I highly doubt Christian Horner is going to pick a favorite driver and bend everything to suit him. If anything, they'll just end up stealing points from each other. No chance at the title.

stormybadger8 said:We didn't write them off. They wrote themselves off with this year's car...

Right now, Red Bull Racing is just dreaming of a podium. A win isn't even on their radar, let alone the championship. They can forget about the title entirely.
Whatever happens in Canada doesn't mean much. Even if they somehow stumble into a podium or pull off a miracle win, they'll still be too far behind in the standings to care. And if they actually do improve enough to fight back, there will be way too many other contenders for those podium spots for them to grab them consistently.
Plus, I highly doubt Christian Horner is going to pick a favorite driver and bend everything to suit him. If anything, they'll just end up stealing points from each other. No chance at the title.

The Development race is just getting started 😉

Red Bull Racing is practically living on the podium right now

Honestly, if his brakes hadn't failed, Max Verstappen would've been on that podium in Bahrain.

neonfox65 said:The Development race is just getting started 😉

Red Bull Racing is practically living on the podium right now

Honestly, if his brakes hadn't failed, Max Verstappen would've been on that podium in Bahrain.

You aren't kidding me.

neonfox65 said:The Development race is just getting started 😉

Red Bull Racing is practically living on the podium right now

Honestly, if his brakes hadn't failed, Max Verstappen would've been on that podium in Bahrain.

Not exactly for Red Bull either...
First they need to actually catch up to Ferrari, then maybe they can worry about Mercedes.
And just like that, they enter the development race. Honestly, though? It’s a massive question mark whether they can even finish this first stretch of the season, let alone pull off a second one.
There’s basically zero chance Ferrari and Mercedes are just going to sit there sleeping while Red Bull tries to hunt them down.

neonfox65 said:The Development race is just getting started 😉

Red Bull Racing is practically living on the podium right now

Honestly, if his brakes hadn't failed, Max Verstappen would've been on that podium in Bahrain.

Where exactly are you getting that from, and why are you so damn sure? 🙂
Ricciardo barely scraped into fifth. And let's be real, he wasn't just fifth—he was about 40 seconds behind the winner and roughly 20 seconds behind a totally indifferent Kimi, who wasn't even in the conversation for a podium spot.

Sure, Max might have had a better race than Ricciardo, but I seriously doubt it would have been that much of a difference.
Based on how that whole mess unfolded, it looks like they might have actually been holding Max back with a three-stop strategy just because he pitted so early.
One stint at Homestead—10 laps.
Two stints on softs (he actually pulled it off) — ???
Three stints on softs? Yeah, he’d have to pull that off.
Maybe we're looking at a potential four-stint run at US Grand Prix...

And let’s not forget, unlike Sebastian Vettel, he ended up stuck behind a slow team and had to fight his way through a massive traffic jam.

Ricciardo burned through that first 14-lap stint, so his tires were shot by the end of both stints anyway. He barely had enough rubber left to even make a two-stop strategy work.
I'm not exactly holding my breath thinking Max's tires will hold up. Honestly, he'd probably be stuck out there even longer than Ricciardo was.

In my estimation, they’d be lucky to secure a fifth place at most. Quite simply, they lacked the raw pace required to compete with this field, particularly when running on soft tires.

stormybadger8 said:Not exactly for Red Bull either...
First they need to actually catch up to Ferrari, then maybe they can worry about Mercedes.
And just like that, they enter the development race. Honestly, though? It’s a massive question mark whether they can even finish this first stretch of the season, let alone pull off a second one.
There’s basically zero chance Ferrari and Mercedes are just going to sit there sleeping while Red Bull tries to hunt them down.

Where exactly are you getting that from, and why are you so damn sure? 🙂
Ricciardo barely scraped into fifth. And let's be real, he wasn't just fifth—he was about 40 seconds behind the winner and roughly 20 seconds behind a totally indifferent Kimi, who wasn't even in the conversation for a podium spot.

Sure, Max might have had a better race than Ricciardo, but I seriously doubt it would have been that much of a difference.
Based on how that whole mess unfolded, it looks like they might have actually been holding Max back with a three-stop strategy just because he pitted so early.
One stint at Homestead—10 laps.
Two stints on softs (he actually pulled it off) — ???
Three stints on softs? Yeah, he’d have to pull that off.
Maybe we're looking at a potential four-stint run at US Grand Prix...

And let’s not forget, unlike Sebastian Vettel, he ended up stuck behind a slow team and had to fight his way through a massive traffic jam.

Ricciardo burned through that first 14-lap stint, so his tires were shot by the end of both stints anyway. He barely had enough rubber left to even make a two-stop strategy work.
I'm not exactly holding my breath thinking Max's tires will hold up. Honestly, he'd probably be stuck out there even longer than Ricciardo was.

They're basically the same...

And then they actually enter the development race—though honestly, it's anyone's guess if they can even pull this first one off before the season ends, let alone anything else...
There’s just no way Ferrari and Mercedes are going to sit around sleeping while Red Bull is breathing down their necks to catch up...

It’s just like last year—Red Bull started out trailing behind Ferrari, but then they went ahead and overtook them as the season rolled on... ☕

Where's this coming from? And honestly—what makes you so sure about that... 🙂
Ricciardo only managed to grab 5th place—and not just any 5th, but he was about 40 seconds behind the winner. Plus, he was trailing Kimi Räikkönen by some 20 seconds, and honestly, Kimi wasn't even really in the hunt for a podium spot...

Ricciardo... 🤦 What a joke of a driver...

Just look at Max... that guy is doing absolute magic... 😉

neonfox65, you have quite the penchant for betting, don't you? I wonder, would you be willing to lay a wager on whether any of the Red Bull drivers will actually be in the hunt for the championship this season? ☕

neonfox65 said:They're basically the same...

And then they actually enter the development race—though honestly, it's anyone's guess if they can even pull this first one off before the season ends, let alone anything else...
There’s just no way Ferrari and Mercedes are going to sit around sleeping while Red Bull is breathing down their necks to catch up...

It’s just like last year—Red Bull started out trailing behind Ferrari, but then they went ahead and overtook them as the season rolled on... ☕

Where's this coming from? And honestly—what makes you so sure about that... 🙂
Ricciardo only managed to grab 5th place—and not just any 5th, but he was about 40 seconds behind the winner. Plus, he was trailing Kimi Räikkönen by some 20 seconds, and honestly, Kimi wasn't even really in the hunt for a podium spot...

Ricciardo... 🤦 What a joke of a driver...

Just look at Max... that guy is doing absolute magic... 😉

Are we really certain they're actually equal? I mean, I want to believe it, but I have my doubts. 🤣

neonfox65 said:They're basically the same...

And then they actually enter the development race—though honestly, it's anyone's guess if they can even pull this first one off before the season ends, let alone anything else...
There’s just no way Ferrari and Mercedes are going to sit around sleeping while Red Bull is breathing down their necks to catch up...

It’s just like last year—Red Bull started out trailing behind Ferrari, but then they went ahead and overtook them as the season rolled on... ☕

Where's this coming from? And honestly—what makes you so sure about that... 🙂
Ricciardo only managed to grab 5th place—and not just any 5th, but he was about 40 seconds behind the winner. Plus, he was trailing Kimi Räikkönen by some 20 seconds, and honestly, Kimi wasn't even really in the hunt for a podium spot...

Ricciardo... 🤦 What a joke of a driver...

Just look at Max... that guy is doing absolute magic... 😉

It’s not that they actually overtook them on pure merit—to be honest, Ferrari’s strategic blunders were just catastrophic, and those mistakes likely cost them at least two wins over the course of the season. By the end of last year, things seemed pretty much even between the teams, but this year? Well, Ferrari is an absolute rocket compared to Red Bull Racing. At this point, Red Bull can only really put up a fight if they have a completely checked-out Kimi Räikkönen behind the wheel, and even then, it’s only during the opening phase of the race. Once the rhythm settles in, it’s all about Ferrari's superior race pace—which, even with Kimi's legendary napping tendencies, is enough to leave Red Bull in the dust.

neonfox65 said:They're basically the same...

And then they actually enter the development race—though honestly, it's anyone's guess if they can even pull this first one off before the season ends, let alone anything else...
There’s just no way Ferrari and Mercedes are going to sit around sleeping while Red Bull is breathing down their necks to catch up...

It’s just like last year—Red Bull started out trailing behind Ferrari, but then they went ahead and overtook them as the season rolled on... ☕

Where's this coming from? And honestly—what makes you so sure about that... 🙂
Ricciardo only managed to grab 5th place—and not just any 5th, but he was about 40 seconds behind the winner. Plus, he was trailing Kimi Räikkönen by some 20 seconds, and honestly, Kimi wasn't even really in the hunt for a podium spot...

Ricciardo... 🤦 What a joke of a driver...

Just look at Max... that guy is doing absolute magic... 😉

Hold on a second there—you really shouldn't be talking like that about a man you were busy praising to the heavens just fifteen days ago!

Yeah, Red Bull didn't actually overtake them; they were just 70 points ahead of Ferrari. Even if Ferrari had somehow managed those two imaginary wins, they still wouldn't have pulled ahead, but yeah, they haven't been surpassed.

northerncobra31 said:Yeah, Red Bull didn't actually overtake them; they were just 70 points ahead of Ferrari. Even if Ferrari had somehow managed those two imaginary wins, they still wouldn't have pulled ahead, but yeah, they haven't been surpassed.

And they haven't. It’s pretty simple—during the second half of the season, Ferrari completely shifted their focus toward making this year count. I mean, look at Sebastian Vettel; he's a completely different driver this year compared to last—night and day, really. Points alone don't tell the whole story; you really have to look at the race-by-race progression to actually analyze what's happening.

Red Bull wasn't actually faster during the race itself. But then again, a race is about more than just raw car speed—you have to know how to read between the lines.

Every single point counts when you're looking at the final standings.

Looking back at the races since Spain, Red Bull was clearly faster than Ferrari, which is why they finished ahead of them.

But we have to stay objective, right?

It's not like Spain was the end of the season.

Now, what exactly are we discussing here? Last year, Red Bull managed to catch up to and eventually overtake a mediocre Ferrari. This season, Ferrari seems stuck trailing behind Mercedes, while Red Bull is lagging just about as much as they did last year. Does anyone—aside from neonfox65—actually believe they can develop their car quickly enough to close the gap on the two frontrunners and rejoin the title fight?

William Bennett53 said:Now, what exactly are we discussing here? Last year, Red Bull managed to catch up to and eventually overtake a mediocre Ferrari. This season, Ferrari seems stuck trailing behind Mercedes, while Red Bull is lagging just about as much as they did last year. Does anyone—aside from neonfox65—actually believe they can develop their car quickly enough to close the gap on the two frontrunners and rejoin the title fight?

They will certainly develop faster, there is no debate there. But by the time they actually catch up, it will already be too late.

William Bennett53 said:Look... while my love for the sport and my heart as a Ferrari fan would make me jump if the Scuderia took the win, I have to give Hamilton a bit more credit. His raw pace is undeniable, and frankly, I find myself trusting the Mercedes-Benz trajectory over Ferrari's progress this season. Then again, last year he was outclassed by Nico Rosberg in that exact same car, and I won't let anyone convince me that Rosberg is actually better than Sebastian Vettel. It seems Hamilton just isn't always that lethal when his mental game isn't at its absolute peak.

Here are the results from the off-season poll. I’m going to start a new one now, since it’s become blindingly obvious that this whole thing has boiled down to just two drivers.

It’s pretty decent watching this unfold so far, but I’m sticking to my guns on this one. ☕

William Bennett53 said:Now, what exactly are we discussing here? Last year, Red Bull managed to catch up to and eventually overtake a mediocre Ferrari. This season, Ferrari seems stuck trailing behind Mercedes, while Red Bull is lagging just about as much as they did last year. Does anyone—aside from neonfox65—actually believe they can develop their car quickly enough to close the gap on the two frontrunners and rejoin the title fight?

They’re definitely going to develop the car way faster than Bear or Ferrari, and with way more progress too. Not really a huge debate there...
When you're running a full lap behind, it's pretty logical that you have way more room to improve. I mean, damn, McLaren could find two seconds in qualifying during the season and they still wouldn't be fighting for pole, even if everyone else stayed frozen in place...

But whether they can even catch them, let alone pass them... that's the question.
And even if they do overtake them in raw speed during the season, it doesn't mean they'll finish ahead in the standings. By then, the points deficit will be massive.