Round 15: Singapore Grand Prix

rustystag7 said:Look, man—I’m telling you this straight, and I’m asking you to look at the situation objectively, not just through fan goggles...

Lewis Hamilton was fairly stripped of that win because he simply didn't have the guts to wait for a clean pass....
Just to be clear—the kid is great, honestly one of my favorites, but that doesn't change the fact that he messed up and has to pay the price....

You know as well as I do that if things had played out normally, he would've emerged behind the car after the turn—like any standard exit—but instead, he was already pulling alongside on his way out. That's an unfair advantage, plain and simple....

This isn't about Ferrari or McLaren anymore; it's just about his own nonsense...

I should mention that the FIA let him slide on those antics in Monza, probably because he's such a master driver and they felt he deserved a break, but I'm starting to worry he'll just become a total loose cannon—which is completely unnecessary....

Blocking a line while overtaking or failing to leave room—that stuff isn't allowed in recent seasons. I'll just point out that people didn't used to drive like that; sure, there were instances, but looking back at old racing footage, the true masters always left space for the car passing them....

Regarding Robert Kubica and Felipe Massa at Monza—if you're talking about that shove, Massa let him through because he cut the chicane, so I think that settles it.🤷

As for Kimi and hitting Adrian Sutil, in my opinion, there shouldn't have been a penalty there, nor for Hamilton hitting Kimi in the pits...

If you recall, I was actually the biggest advocate for not penalizing Kimi in the pits since he couldn't avoid him—you could tell he tried. Look, I'll admit it honestly: there's injustice in those two cases, but nothing more...

And that off-track excursion ahead of Sutil? That wasn't Massa's fault—it was the mechanics. From what I read on an American news site regarding the last race, the issue was dangerous driving through the pit lane, not the excursion itself....

It would be fundamentally unfair to penalize a driver for the crew's mistake. Fine, hit the constructors' championship points or squeeze their wallets, but don't punish the driver for something he didn't cause.🤷

That's my stance, and it's staying that way—this has nothing to do with Ferrari right now, it's about basic logic....

I'm reading these posts and seeing all this garbage claiming Massa is to blame because of pit errors, yet when I look at the whole season, I don't see a single actual mistake made by Massa.

Ugh, and again—I maintain that everything falls on the driver. If you spin five times on a wet track, that's on you. But the pit crew offers zero help with strategy, and frankly, whatever Ferrari's strategy is, it's a joke.

McLaren is absolutely tearing them apart here.

Oh, and what about Kubica and Massa last year at Fuji?

lonebison19 said:Wait, wasn't it Robert Kubica and Felipe Massa at Fuji last year?

Honestly, I can't quite recall... that was all going down last year.🤷

Man, I just watched it... honestly, I have no clue what anyone would’ve even done in that spot. Robert Kubica shoved him out twice and Felipe Massa did it twice too, but you gotta hand it to them—they kept it pretty clean despite the chaos...

I'm telling you, trying to keep that car under control in that absolute downpour had to be freaking brutal. 🙏

rustystag7 said:Look, I checked it out—honestly, even I couldn't say what should happen there. Robert Kubica shoved him twice and Felipe Massa did the same once, but I have to admit—they all drove pretty clean....

I'm guessing it was damn near impossible to keep that car on the track in that downpour. 🙏

Yeah, but still... By the FIA's own standards regarding McLaren, both cars probably should’ve been penalized for safety violations. It makes me wonder how things would've gone down if, say, Fernando Alonso had been in Massin's spot back then!

stormybadger8 said:The rule is just stupid. It couldn't be any dumber if they tried.☕ I don't get the logic behind banning pit stops while the SC is out. Probably "safety" reasons,🙄 because apparently it's way safer to pull in and out of the pits while everyone else is crawling along the track at a measly 186 miles/h compared to when they're all stuck behind the SC doing ☕
.

The rule makes perfect sense. If you pit while the SC is out, you gain a massive advantage over anyone who pitted during green flag conditions. It’s not the same thing when your rivals are doing 155 miles/h or 81 miles/h.

By the way, the track was great. Felt like a massive go-kart track. Pretty sure every driver had a blast.

Edward Howard2 said:It seems you failed to grasp the point I was attempting to make—which I had already emphasized in my previous response to ensure clarity--🤣
Let me reiterate for the sake of absolute certainty... this occurs in virtually every single race. No one is ever penalized, nor are they forced to surrender a position for cutting through those first two chicanes immediately following the start; it is never even subjected to an investigation.

P.S. Is that BMW cutting right behind Fernando Alonso not bothering you at all?🙄

Oh, come now—"every single race"? Really?
🙄
If that were actually the case, why don't we just see everyone cutting that chicane then? 🙄
Clearly, everyone else is incompetent while Fernando Alonso is the sole genius in the field...
You can claim he’s a master strategist—his opening move was clearly brilliant—but the car cutting the chicane directly behind him wasn't even half as aggressive as his own maneuver... and incidentally, it was Piquet's Renault, not a BMW, so it stands to reason; they're running with the same crew.🙄

nimblemarlin17 said:The rule makes perfect sense—it’s basic math. Pitting under the SC gives you a massive advantage over anyone who had to pit during green flag racing. It’s hardly a fair fight when your rivals are crawling at 155 miles/h or 81 miles/h.

The track itself was actually decent—felt like one giant, high-stakes go-kart circuit—so I suppose even the drivers found some enjoyment in it.

Everyone seemed desperate for it to wrap up sooner or later—though apparently, Kimi Räikkönen didn't quite make it to the finish line...🤣

dustyhound said:Come on—every single race? Give me a break 🙄
If that were actually the case, why didn't everyone just cut that chicane 🙄
Clearly everyone else is clueless while Alonso is the only one with half a brain...
Sure, you can claim Alonso is some master strategist—his start looked solid enough—but the car cutting the chicane behind him wasn't even half as fast as his... besides, that was Piquet's Renault, not the BMW, so it makes sense—they're all running from the same crew 🙄

Can someone drop a link so I can see this for myself?

lonebison19 said:I think everyone used to be counting down the seconds until it was over. But look at Kimi—he couldn't even wait.🤣

They were waiting because the track was littered with debris, bits of rubber everywhere, and the fact that the race got stretched out by that SC. Then you've got engines, tires, all that stuff coming into play. As for Kimi, he's an idiot. Don't even try to group him in with normal people. What kind of sane person slams into a wall MULTIPLE TIMES in a single season just because they felt like it?

pathetic race—track was a joke, honestly felt like they designed it specifically to stop anyone from actually overtaking... two full hours of pure misery in high humidity, blinding lights everywhere, and those walls lining the runoff areas where safety should be... nothing happened except for one crash because you couldn't pass the absolute snails out front. just as bad as Valencia. commentary was a disaster too. everything is always the old man's fault—honestly, maybe he should just stick to driving on ice surrounded by minefields, might actually impress some idiots for once... sorry, Blazick, but yeah...

rustystag7 said:Look, man—I'm gonna be straight with you and ask you to look at this realistically, just not through a fan's lens...

Lewis Hamilton was robbed of that win because he didn't have the guts to just wait for things to play out fairly....

And right there—your credibility just hits zero. You actually have the nerve to tell others they're being biased?

Felipe Massa can only be considered a legitimate champion if he’s got a 7-point lead over Lewis Hamilton—or maybe a 6-point gap plus two extra wins. Anything else is just another championship rigged by the FIA.

lonebison19 said:Wait, are we really talking about Robert Kubica and Felipe Massa at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway last year?

Honestly, I can't believe someone actually tried to frame that as a success story given how things played out. It’s a bit ridiculous—would they have been better off just talking about who gets first dibs in the cafeteria line instead? 🙄

rustystag7 said:Look, man, I’m gonna be straight with you. Do me a favor and look at this objectively, not just as a fan...

Lewis didn't get robbed. He just didn't have the guts to wait for a clean pass....
Just so we're clear, I like the kid. Honestly, I probably like him more than anyone else, but that doesn't change the fact that he messed up and has to pay for it....

You know as well as I do that if he had come out of that corner normally, he would've been behind the car like any sane driver. Instead, he was already alongside while exiting, which is just an unfair advantage....

This isn't about Ferrari or McLaren anymore; it's about his own nonsense...

I'll point out that the FIA let him slide on those stunts in Monza because they felt he deserved a break since he's a master driver, but I'm starting to worry he's going to become a total loose cannon, and that's just unnecessary....

Blocking someone on a pass or failing to leave space—that stuff isn't allowed in modern seasons. I should mention that people didn't used to drive like this back in the day; sure, it happened, but if you watch old racing footage, the real pros always left room for the car passing them....

As for Monza, regarding Kubica and Massa—if you're talking about that shove, Massa let him through because he cut the chicane. I think that settles it.🤷

And regarding Kimi and the hit on Sutil, in my opinion, there shouldn't have been a penalty there, nor for Hamilton hitting Kimi in the pits...

If you remember, I was one of the biggest voices saying the pit error shouldn't be penalized because he couldn't avoid it; you could tell he tried. Look, I'll admit there's injustice in those two cases, but that's it...

And that incident where he went off track ahead of Sutil? That's not Massa's fault, it's the mechanic's. According to some US news site I read, the penalty last race was actually for dangerous driving in the pits, not for going off track....

It’s unfair to penalize a driver for a crew mistake. Fine, dock the constructors' points or hit their wallets, but don't punish the driver for something they didn't do.

That's my take, and it stays that way. It has nothing to do with Ferrari right now; it's about basic logic....

I'm reading these posts and people are acting like Massa is to blame because of pit errors. But looking at the whole season, I don't see a single actual mistake made by Massa.

Again, I'm telling you, the driver does everything himself. If he spins five times on a wet track, that's on him. But the pit crew has zero impact on strategy, and what Ferrari did with their strategy was just laughable.

McLaren is absolutely destroying them here.

First off, please just follow your own advice.😉 I'm telling you, I don't care about Ferrari or McLaren, but the point is that everyone gets penalized except for Ferrari. They don't just hand out questionable, stupid penalties to McLaren and Hamilton. Tell me one single penalty Ferrari has actually received.🤷 Forget all that talk about $10,000 fines; that's nothing. Hamilton and McLaren would gladly trade those six points from Belgium for a $100,000 fine. And even if we aren't talking about Monza but Japan 2007, I'm not saying Massa is the only one at fault—both he and Kubica are to blame. But by your logic, since both were cutting chicanes, no one gained an advantage. By that same logic, Hamilton didn't gain an advantage either, because Kimi didn't finish the race—he crashed into the wall. So, no advantage there.🤣
Look, you're right about Lewis Hamilton and Monza, Hamilton earned a penalty at Monza . If he’s ever deserved a penalty in his entire career, it was at Monza—except they didn't give him one. 👎 You're just blaming the refs and the FIA and talking about compensations 🙂

A driver drives for a team, and the team gives him a fast or slow car. The crew can nail a pit stop in 6 seconds or take 15 minutes. If a driver has to deal with the consequences of a great pit stop, he has to deal with the consequences of a terrible one too. Honestly, they should just scrap pit stops and refueling entirely. And hey, if Massi’s crew at Ferrari isn't up to par, he can always just move to Force India and win a championship there; at least they don't mess up in the pits. 😬

What actually gets under my skin is punishing someone for breaking a rule that doesn't even exist . They just make it up on the spot after a controversial moment to penalize a driver 🙄. And it's not just Hamilton; Heidfeld 🤔 was caught up in that mess with the slow driving at the end of qualifying too.

It's basically like you're cruising down a highway in Los Angeles and see a sign that says 50 miles mph limit. You cruise along at 50 miles mph and a camera catches you. Two days later, they start roadwork and change the sign to 19 miles mph. Suddenly, the cops show up at your door with a photo showing you doing 80, even though you were following the 80 limit, and slap you with a $1000 fine and suspend your license for 6 months because apparently, the limit is now 19 miles mph 🙄.

dustyhound said:come on, not every single race, give me a break 🙄
If that were true, why wouldn't everyone just cut that chicane every time 🙄
Clearly everyone else is clueless and Alonso is the only genius in the room...
You can claim Alonso is some master strategist, and yeah, his start looked solid... but the car cutting that chicane behind him wasn't even half as fast as what he pulled off... plus, that was Piquet's Renault, not a BMW, so it makes sense since they're basically the same crew 🙄

Alright, fine, if you really want to go there... at Monza, those start situations didn't happen because they all lined up behind the safety car...
🙄

Piquet cut less, but check out this photo—take a good look at the BMW (Heidfeld) cutting through that chicane with all four wheels before Alonso even gets there. 🤣

Also, look at how many cars were crowded on Alonso's right side and right behind him. He couldn't have avoided cutting the chicane if he wanted to. Any other move—just staying straight, veering right, or slamming the brakes—would've wrecked his car and probably someone else's too. So, Alonso's move was totally justified, just like Heidfeld's, who would've smashed right into Vettel if he hadn't cut the corner.
But hey, I guess you're just blinded by your Alonso grudge 🤣
You can't seriously be looking at this one single win and acting like he's the biggest threat to your favorite driver's title run this year, can you?

So, even the Ferrari boss thinks the SC rule is total nonsense☕. And honestly? He’s right. I mean, how else do you describe this? You have one driver who enters the track a lap before the SC and somehow cruises to a 19-place victory in what is objectively a mid-field car. Meanwhile, the runner-up only lands in second because they pitted under the SC, coming out ahead of those sluggish True and Physics cars that even a car four seconds faster per lap can't catch. Then, after a few laps—thanks to the stewards' call plus three extra laps—they pull such a massive gap that even a Stop and Go penalty leaves them sitting in 2nd place. Meanwhile, the guys in the actual fastest cars on track can't make up any ground at all. It's ridiculous.😵

Don't get me wrong, hats off to both Alonso and Rosberg🙏. But realistically, without that stupid rule and the pure luck of hitting the pits at that exact moment, they’d be fighting for 4th or 5th, probably even lower. That's one thing when it starts pouring rain and a driver handles it like a pro, or the crew nails a perfect tire change—that's skill and calculated risk from the driver and the team. This? This is just pure luck. It has absolutely nothing to do with racing.☕

stormybadger8 said:What kind of loophole? Everything was totally by the book. Lewis Hamilton just exploited a gap 😬 in the pits, reported it to Nelson Piquet, and like, "hey, go ahead and kiss the wall" 🤣 and then Ford takes first place . Honestly, the tactics were insane—just pure genius at finding those tiny loopholes in the rules. 🙏😬

Wait, correction... Ford takes second place ☕

Edward Howard2 said:Correction... Ford takes second on the podium☕

😵 You're right, 😬 Lewis Hamilton takes first on the podium😁

Did anyone catch the sports segment on CNN just now?
They’re saying the FIA is looking into rumors that Nelson Piquet intentionally crashed into the barrier just to trigger a Safety car!

Has anyone seen any official confirmation on this yet?
What kind of nonsense is this?!

FOX is reporting that the FIA is launching an investigation following those rumors that Briatore told Pike to intentionally spin out just to clear a path for Lewis Hamilton to move up through the field...🤷

EDIT: actually, scratch that... not FOX, it was CNN...😵

Dana Grant7 said:FOX is reporting that the FIA is launching an investigation following rumors that Flavio Briatore told Pike to intentionally crash so that Lewis Hamilton could move up in the standings....🤷

EDIT: actually... not FOX, it was CNN....😵

Aha... so someone else saw this too, I'm not just hallucinating. 😲