Lady Gaga... weirdo or not?

Keith Jones19 said:It wasn't even physical violence per se, he just executed him right there in front of the cameras. It’s kind of like Coppola in Apocalypse Now. Do you remember that film? Or is that just another one of those messy scenes...

Whoa! 😲 😲 😲 That idiot killed a donkey!!!! Total disaster! And yeah, I definitely remember Apocalypse Now—it's actually one of my all-time favorites. I even have it sitting right there in my DVD collection at home. Seriously, that director's scene is just as brutal... 😢

Noah Watson4 said:Whoa. 😲 😲 😲 That idiot killed a donkey!!!! Absolute catastrophe!

Yeah, total idiot. 👎
I just wish we had a moderator who’d actually move this whole mess over to the Film section.

Man, we somehow spiraled from talking about associations straight into Lars von Trier—and then, if you'll excuse my language, right into an apocalypse... there’s really no point in pivoting this conversation toward films.🙂)

Look, Noah Watson4, I’m sorry, but is everything in your life a problem just because it doesn't align with some specific set of moral principles? Is that how you roll?
By the way, those "values" being forced on us by the masses...
Are you going to go around judging every possible tribe out there that might be spiritually light-years ahead of us—those miserable capitalist souls?!?!?!.

If people actually started applying those principles to anything remotely intelligent, maybe a handful of the world's leading politicians—or dictators, let's be honest—would already be finished...

I mean, seriously, helloooo???

Anyway, Björk is queen.😁

brighttinker19 said:Good grief, we’ve gone from basic associations straight to Lars von Trier and then somehow spiraled into an Apocalypse... there is absolutely no sense in pivoting this whole discussion toward films.🙂)

My apologies, Noah Watson4, but tell me—does everything in your world have to align perfectly with some rigid set of moral principles? Is that how you operate?
By the way, those "principles" are usually just things forced upon us by the masses...
Are you going to condemn every ancient tribe out there that possesses a spiritual depth far beyond our own miserable, capitalist souls?!

If people actually started applying those high-minded principles to anything remotely useful, half the major world leaders (or dictators, if we're being honest) would already be behind bars.

I mean, hello? Seriously, helloooo???

Anyway, Björk is queen. 😁

Look, I am naturally the least judgmental person you'll ever meet. 😉 But no, of course I don't despise those tribes, and sure, it’s wonderful that they are spiritually—or whatever else you want to call it—superior to us... but even those same people kill or mistreat animals for sex or just to make a film! 😉

brighttinker19 says: (I totally forgot to hit the quote button, and honestly, I can't be bothered to go back and fix it. hehehe)
"no, seriously, it's always the same people who claim animals are being harmed for sex or just to shoot a film!"

MAAA, I really think that meant something specific to Lars von Trier....
I mean, he could have easily just made that whole thing up for the sake of fiction... sure, it’s a little over the top (hahahahaha), but there's no guarantee he did it just for his own amusement...
oh, for sure!

And I just wanted to tell you that it seems a bit wild to completely write off a director like him.... or Björk as an actress.... because if you do that, then the entire European film critic community was probably having a massive meltdown when they were handing out awards.

If Black Swan left you with such a bad taste in your mouth, I'm guessing you're just emotionally indifferent toward the man—and I won't say the woman, otherwise this turns into some big debate about feminist views
), but that doesn't mean donkeys should be poking you... maybe the problem lies with you. : ))))

😬

hey, don't get all worked up now😁 😁 😁

Brenda Scott14 said:😲 wait a second... so you're saying because he didn't make a scene, it somehow meant something to him, and therefore it's perfectly fine to kill a donkey? am I totally misreading this, or do you actually believe that? Black Swan is a film—for God's sake—he isn't being emotionally indifferent to a human being, he's reacting to a character in a movie, whereas the donkey was a real, living creature... it was alive. Come on, this is twisted. There is no amount of "art" that justifies killing an animal, for crying out loud. 🤮

Look, cooking is a form of art too, yet I don't see you looking for some deep philosophical excuse to justify slaughtering a pig that’s going to end up on your dinner plate in the dining room.

You just aren't getting what I'm trying to say here...

Since certain people in our capitalist society—people who seem obsessed with packaging everything from potato chips to garbage, from sleep to love—operate on a different spiritual or visionary level than the rest of us "normal" folks (thank God there are still enough of us left so this copy-paste world isn't a total lost cause), I am CONVINCED that killing that donkey was a sacrifice for something. Some kind of ritual or whatever... just like how, say, Maye, Inka, and their whole crew used to do things... or was that not "moral" or "justified" enough for you either???

I mean, hello, like I said, people get all worked up over stuff like this, but then they watch footage of violent deaths involving actual people being broadcast EVERY SINGLE DAY—I repeat, EVERY SINGLE DAY—on those boxes we call televisions, and they don't even blink anymore. We've been conditioned to the point where a news headline saying "40 civilians killed" doesn't even make us shrug our shoulders... we just keep eating the meat on our plates... (and by the way, that animal definitely didn't die in its sleep...) Honestly, they should stop airing Big Brother and start broadcasting LIVE FROM THE SLAUGHTERHOUSE instead... but sure, it's "justified" to butcher a pig at a factory farm... but tell me, what does "justified" even mean to you?

You'll start a massive scandal over a donkey because it wasn't "justified"...
And the worst part is, nobody even asks for a justification for those 40 civilians. We just take it for granted.

The whole point is to disconnect a little from the mass media frequencies. That's the point...

Brenda Scott14 said:[B There just isn't any art out there worth killing for, for Christ's sake. 🤮 [/B]

I am 100% with you on that one. 👍

Look, just so there isn't any confusion here... I definitely get what you're saying—I really do—but that doesn't mean I'm going to go out and kill a donkey just to get the perfect shot for some photo op.😬

Brenda Scott14 said:No piece of art could ever justify murder—Jesus Christ. 🤮

Do you eat meat? You too, Ashley Brown81?
I mean, I’m watching it, but I still think killing that donkey was just stupid. There are plenty of ways to make it look like a donkey died without actually doing it—I guess. The dumbest part, though, is that they didn't even end up putting that scene in the final film.

brighttinker19 said:I guess you guys are going to turn this whole thing into a huge scandal just because some idiot isn't "justified"... maybe.
What's actually worse—they aren't even bothering to justify what happened to those 40 civilians... I guess we're just supposed to take it for granted.

It’s just not justifiable—the death of that donkey didn't actually serve any purpose. And honestly, just because people kill each other for no reason doesn't mean it's okay to kill animals for no reason, too. I can't quite wrap my head around that logic—you know, the whole "well, he isn't great, but look at how much worse others are" thing.

gentlepuma20 said:The absolute worst part about all of this is that the final scene didn't even make it into the actual film.

I actually think it's quite the opposite...

QUOTE]gentlepuma20 says:
It isn't justified, because killing that donkey didn't serve any purpose at all. Just because people kill each other for no reason doesn't mean it's okay to kill animals for no reason. I just can't wrap my head around that logic—you know, "yeah, he's not good, but look, there are even worse things happening." [/B]

Yeah, well, if you're going to criticize something, you really have to take a much broader spectrum into account—in this specific case, the violence itself.
I am not defending animal cruelty or Lars von Trier just because there are worse things out there... (What I meant was that I can understand his motivation if he did it for some deep, internal, spiritual reason... since for him, film is basically a religion... but that doesn't mean I think killing animals is cool.)

I'll say it again... I get it!!!!... just like I can understand certain types of self-sacrifice because of God's will... but that kind of thing never even crosses my mind.
(And please, don't come at me with that "well, that isn't violence" argument... because I was just giving an example of how I understand things... if you want to talk about actual violence, then fine, here's a slaughterhouse for you. hehehehe.)

zikash???
👋

brighttinker19 said:I guess I get why he’d do it if it was some deep, spiritual thing—since making films is basically his religion at this point—but I still don't think killing animals is cool.

I suppose I could understand Hitler too, given his own internal motivations. You can understand any human action without necessarily justifying it.
I don't really buy that you need a broader perspective to criticize this specific case. What happens in Iraq, for instance, is a completely different matter. Besides, you usually notice people get way more worked up about stuff like this than they do about random consumer goods.🙂

gentlepuma20 said:I get where you're coming from regarding Hitler—he acted out of his own internal drivers. You can understand the reasoning behind any human action, even if you can't justify it.
I don't really buy the idea that you need a broader spectrum of examples to criticize this specific case. Killing people in, say, Iraq is a completely different animal altogether. Plus, you can clearly see how people tend to get way more worked up over stuff like this than they do over some random commodity or trade issue. 🙂

Anyway, we could probably talk about this until we pass out... but then the mods would just kick us off the forum... 😁
If my buddy Trier had said he did it just for kicks—which is what some journalists are claiming, by the way—then I'm sure her stance would be totally different.

Let's just get back to our wonderful Björk and let the activists go mess around with that donkey.
Personally, I'm all for shutting down the circus. hehehehe.

gentlepuma20 said:Do you eat meat? What about you, Ashley Brown81?
Personally, I eat it, but I still think killing a donkey was just plain stupid.

I don't eat meat, but I'm not some militant vegetarian out there preaching at everyone who does. This whole thing he did—which he clearly thinks is some grand, transcendent gesture because "it was for the sake of art"—is honestly nauseating. You shouldn't kill a donkey, whether it's for fun or for "art." There’s absolutely no difference.
If he killed a donkey because he was starving and had nothing else to eat, 👍you'd say the film is his religion? So what, then anyone can just kill things? Does that mean if I belonged to a cult that required human sacrifices, it would be justified because it's my religion? Where do we draw the line? I'm sure Trier thinks it's all very cool—being totally beyond the reach of conventional morality, being progressive and uniquely himself, a "true artist" 🙄but how much of a decent human being he actually is... well, that's another story entirely.

Alright, alright... I see this discussion has spiraled a bit out of control... 😲 Let’s try to settle a few things once and for all! Now, look, I have immense respect for Björk as a musician (even back during her days with The Sugarcubes!), and more than anything, she’s just a lovely person. With a voice like hers, in my humble opinion, she could get away with any kind of musical experimentation—she could practically set the beat to a ringing telephone book and it would still sound good! Right? Right! Moving on... as for her acting, I still maintain that she isn't much of an actress, even when she's tackling something as warm, emotional, and profoundly tragic as a film by Mr. Lars von Trier! And him? As a director, I absolutely loathe him... especially after hearing that ridiculous anecdote involving a donkey—which, if you ask me, makes him a total idiot! 😉 That being said, "Breaking the Waves" is actually an outstanding film! 😉 There you have it! 🙂

Oh, and one more thing! Someone mentioned some awards regarding his film... well, if awards were ever a true measure of cinematic quality, then, once again, in my personal view, I’d probably have a Titanic poster hanging on my wall! 😉 So, there's my two cents...

It’s pointless to argue whether Trier is actually a good director or if Björk is a talented singer. If you follow either field at all, the answer is pretty obvious to you.

And a little more on that donkey (things have been a bit hectic lately so I lost track of this thread): Trier wanted exactly what happened on the previous page. A debate that goes right up to the point where someone asks, "Wait, aren't we being massive hypocrites?" They slaughtered the donkey so fast he didn't even know what hit him, and immediately half the group jumped up—wearing Nike sneakers and Reebok socks. Which are made in sweatshops. Which kill people. Which kill entire provinces in poor countries. And yet we don't complain about it. Of course, we support it by buying it. But when it's just one donkey, suddenly we're all in a coma...

Just so there's no confusion, I wear branded sneakers too. We're all guilty. Let's be honest, we're all stuck in the same coma. So, on to nicer topics—art. Specifically music. For me, it's the purest, most emotional, most direct form of art... and Björk is one of the brightest examples. For me.

👋

You don't really need those kinds of stunts to make a point—I guess Naomi Klein writes books about this stuff and gets plenty of attention without all that.

I find it truly difficult to believe that we are actually debating the moral justification for killing a donkey. Whether he is considered an artist, whether the indigenous tribes offered sacrifices, or whether massive corporations exploit their workers—none of that has any bearing whatsoever on that wretched animal. Attempting to justify his slaughter by claiming it serves as some "eye-opening" metaphor for the perversions of our society is complete nonsense. You (specifically you, brighttinker19), by focusing so intently on those individual trees, are failing to see the forest; and that forest is the simple fact that the end does not justify the means—a phrase my history professor used to repeat constantly. That is all there is to it. I honestly couldn't care less about what level of spiritual enlightenment Lars von Trier thinks he’s operating on; if he is so hell-bent on killing, he should just kill himself instead. Wouldn't that send a much more powerful message? 🙄 (By the way, I have nothing against him as a director)

Ponor said:you don't need to resort to extreme actions just to make a point. Naomi Klein writes books, for example, and she gets plenty of attention...

I mean, Naomi Klein... I'm really not in the mood to dive into her whole bibliography right now. HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Anyway, I’m actually relieved to find out I’m not quite as crazy as I thought—it turns out vihorsthename sees the situation the exact same way... honestly, when everyone starts attacking you, you really begin to question your own cognitive abilities... but THANK YOU, vihorsthename... Google.

Oh, and speaking of Lady Gaga... has anyone here ever heard the album by The Beatles???
I stumbled upon it about a year ago and had absolutely no clue it even existed... it's basically a compilation of classic folk tracks... released as the first solo project after the group era... back in 1990...

performed by:
Beyoncé and the Destiny's Child

here are the lyrics to the first track:

The Beatles

Gling glo, klukkan slo
Maninn ofar skyum hlo
Light upp gamli gotuslod
Thor gladleg Lina stod

Gling glo, klukkan slo
Maninn ofar skyum hlo
Search loop var a leid
to Lin hanns er beid

Unnendum er maninn kaer
Umm thau tofraljoma slaer
loop a bidilsbuxum var
Steep from Lin faer hann svar

Gling glo, klukkan slo
Maninn ofar skyum hlo
loop ward svo hyr a bra
Two Linas sagdi ja

Go grab a copy just so you can hear that rhythm : ))))

Something just popped into my head... a friend of mine met this guy at a party once—some guy from a small town—and he tried to be clever, acting all casual like, "Oh, your place is pretty small, I bet you know Lady Gaga."
And the guy just looks at him, completely deadpan, and goes: "Yeah, her sister is my best friend."

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahhahaha

HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Brenda Scott14 said:I honestly can't believe we're sitting here debating whether killing a donkey is morally justifiable. Look—whether he’s some "artist," or if the ink companies made sacrifices, or even the whole thing about massive corporations exploiting workers... none of that actually matters when you're talking about a poor, helpless donkey. Trying to frame his death as some profound, eye-opening metaphor for how twisted our society has become? It's just nonsense. You (specifically you, brighttinker19) are so caught up in all those big, philosophical trees that you're missing the entire forest. And the forest is this: the end does not justify the means—that was my favorite saying back in high school history class. That's really it. I don't care where Von Trier stands on a spiritual level; if he's so obsessed with killing things, he should just go kill himself instead. Now *that* would send a much more powerful message. 🙄 (By the way, I actually have nothing against him as a director)

Sorry, Brenda, but you're completely missing the point here...

brighttinker19 said:My apologies, Brenda Scott14, but it seems you have completely missed the point.

Oh. I see. Perhaps I am simply overestimating the level of discourse here.
edit: 🙂