Monaco GP 2015

jadeseal7 said:2010-2013 👍

There are still those clinging to the notion that a fraud remains a fraud—someone who was essentially branded as such last year before making what he clearly thought was the most brilliant tactical retreat in his career. He fled the scene only to land right in the arms of the most adored outfit on the planet, where people who previously harbored a deep-seated resentment for him now worship the ground he walks on simply because he’s piloting a red car. It’s quite a spectacle, really. A single victory here and a handful of podium finishes, all achieved without having to contend with an equal teammate in some supposedly "uncompetitive" machine, and suddenly everyone is hailing him as a generational talent. They act as if it’s an impossible feat for Sebastian Vettel to pull off something similar this year, which begs the question: how then should we view what Daniel Ricciardo accomplished back in 🙏

steelmaker83 said:We're right in the middle of the Monaco GP now, and before we know it, we'll be heading toward the Canadian Grand Prix in about ten days.

Yes, but what does that actually imply? Is it truly wise for us to attempt to pass judgment on a driver's actual caliber based solely on the outcome of a single race? I mean, I certainly wouldn't dream of questioning whether Lewis Hamilton is an exceptional driver, because he clearly is, but surely there are plenty of other talented drivers out there—and, if I may offer my own humble perspective, perhaps even some who are superior.

Alexander Gonzalez79 said:Some people are still clinging to the idea that a fraud remains a fraud, even after he was branded as such last year, and then proceeded to make what he considers the most brilliant career move by fleeing to join the most beloved team in the world—where the very people who once loathed him from the depths of their souls now worship him simply because he drives a red car. A single victory and a handful of podium finishes, all achieved without an equal teammate in a supposedly "uncompetitive" car, have somehow transformed him into a legendary driver in everyone's eyes; yet, if we refuse to call what Sebastian Vettel is doing this year a feat, then I must ask, what on earth do we make of what Daniel Ricciardo accomplished back in 🙏
?

is that just as Jenson Button did to Lewis Hamilton in 2011. 🙏
He absolutely tore him apart, didn't he? But does one single moment define a whole season? Of course not. Furthermore, isn't the mere necessity of using the word "fraud" in your opening sentence enough to expose the exact kind of "hater logic" and dismissiveness that you claim to be so allergic to? 🙂

graniteharbor502 said:It’s honestly just like what Jenson Button did to Lewis Hamilton back in 2011—that kind of tactical maneuvering is something else entirely. 🙏
He beat him. So what? One single mistake doesn't suddenly make someone a failure—it’s just one bad day in the grand scheme of things. Honestly, the fact that you felt the need to drop the word "cheating" right in your very first sentence says everything I need to know about this whole "hater" vibe you claim to be so allergic to. It's a bit ironic, isn't it? 🙂

When exactly do you think I should bring up 2011? 🤣 Well, it looks like his little theories just went right down the drain—completely debunked!

The last few pages have been nothing but pure vitriol. It’s getting so intense that people seem to have lost any capacity for objective thought.

I'll put together a proper write-up tomorrow. It's already midnight.

graniteharbor502 said:Sure. And? Can we really judge a driver's talent based on a single race? I'm not questioning that Lewis Hamilton is an elite driver—he clearly is. But there are plenty of other great drivers out there. Some of them are better, if you ask me.

Better?

Jason Campbell70 said:The last few pages have been nothing but intense backlash against the frontrunners—it’s gotten to the point where I think people are losing their ability to think clearly about anything at all.

I'll try to put together a proper little write-up tomorrow; it's already midnight here.

Hey Jason, is "tolerance" just part of your name?

steelmaker83 said:Better ones?

yes 🙂

steelmaker83 said:He’ll always be a lightweight, and any real expert will see right through him as a fraud. The marketing gurus will do their job, sure, but those who actually know the sport will see the truth.

So, is Lewis Hamilton a complete idiot? Yeah. Is there anyone on the track right now who can touch him? No. Not even close.

Honestly, it's probably a good thing he's a bit dim, just to give the rest of them a fighting chance. Imagine if he was actually smart too—would there even be a point in letting him race against these kids? He’d absolutely demolish them all the way to Silverstone, every single time.

Nature eventually finds a way to balance things out. That's why the guy's a bit slow on the uptake. And that's why a mediocre driver like Nico Rosberg actually has a shot at something.

And hey, that's fine. That's just how the world works. It would be ridiculous if it were any different.

If Lewis Hamilton weren't such an airhead, the marketing suits wouldn't be hyping him up so much.🤣
What on earth are you talking about? The marketing guys only hype Lewis; nobody gives a damn about Rosberg.
Actually, B. E. made that pretty clear one of these days.🤣

On the flip side, if Lewis were smarter and wasn't so empty-headed, he’d be more like Jenson Button or Fernando Alonso. He’d have ended up as runner-up in 2010, 2011, and 2012...
But then he wouldn't be such a fan favorite anymore because he wouldn't drive with that wild, aggressive style. Instead, he'd be calm and composed, just like he was in Monaco.
Back in the day, old Lewis would have charged at Sebastian Vettel, regardless of the cost, even on the same tires or with a slower car.
But this new version didn't even try, despite having faster new soft tires, being 30 laps younger, and having the absolute best car on the grid. He didn't even attempt it...

graniteharbor502 said:it's just like when Jenson Button absolutely dismantled Lewis Hamilton back in 2011. 🙏
He handed him his head. So what? One single loss doesn't make a season, much less a career. Honestly, the very fact that you feel compelled to throw around the word "cheating" in your opening sentence tells me everything I need to know about the sheer level of "hater energy" and the constant disparagement you claim to be so allergic to. 🙂

That stands as literally the only defeat in Lewis Hamilton's entire Formula 1 career where he doesn't hold a winning head-to-head record against his opponent, which is precisely why nobody brings it up—there's simply no logical reason to dwell on it.

"The Cheater" is just a nickname at this point, and there is nothing inherently wrong with it. ☕
Whenever I find myself daydreaming about what a direct showdown between Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel might have looked like, my mind always drifts back to this specific moment.

Total domination.🙏

graniteharbor502 said:It’s just like when Jenson Button dominated Lewis Hamilton back in 2011. 🙏
He beat him. So what? One single instance doesn't define an entire era. Besides, the very fact that you feel compelled to throw around the word "cheating" in your opening sentence tells me everything I need to know about the "hater" mentality and the cheap shots you claim to be so allergic to. 🙂

Button crushed Lewis Hamilton, but since I wasn't watching that season... oh, wait, you think it's because he had more points!!!.

The difference is that he didn't outdrive him on pure talent; it was due to other factors.

Ric outdrove Sebastian Vettel on pure merit. That is the distinction.

For God's sake, look at how Button is handling Alonso this year.

Roger Wright94 said:He was so much better he basically left them in the dust.

If he actually was better, he would’ve won. Everything else is just fairy tales...
It wasn't a blown tire or a mechanical failure; it was more like he and his entire crew had a collective meltdown.

Look, you can call someone a world-class sprinter if they crush the first 75 meters of a 100-meter dash, but if they trip over their own feet at the finish line, they aren't the rightful winner.😁

mellowtiger83 said:Jenson Button absolutely crushed Lewis Hamilton, why wasn't I watching this season? Oh wait, I forgot he actually had more points!!!

Well, the distinction lies in the fact that it wasn't a matter of pure driving dominance, but rather due to other circumstances entirely.

If we look at Ricciardo, he truly outclassed Sebastian Vettel on track, and that is where the real difference lies.

I mean, seriously, did you see how much Button was beating Fernando Alonso this year?

Yes, he certainly did. He dominated him. Perhaps you should take another look at that specific season, back when Lewis Hamilton was occasionally driving like he was Pastor Maldonado.🍿

stormybadger8 said:If he were truly superior, he would have actually won; everything else is just pure fantasy...
It wasn't a blown tire or some mechanical failure that cost him, though one could argue he and his entire crew suffered a collective mental breakdown...

In essence, it’s like saying you have this incredible sprinter who absolutely dominates the first 75 meters of a 100-meter dash, leaving everyone else in the dust, only to trip over his own feet at the finish line—suddenly, the winner isn't necessarily the one who deserved it.😁

What kind of comparisons are we even making here?!!!!!😵😵 If I don't vent my frustrations a bit more 😵 😵

Does a sprinter have a pit wall and twenty specialists dedicated solely to managing their stride and pacing? That very same pit wall is tasked with analyzing data and deciding whether to call a driver in for service or stay out. They are the ones responsible for the strategic calls, and in this instance, those decisions proved to be disastrously wrong.

stormybadger8 said:If he actually were better, he would have won. Everything else is just fairy tales...
It wasn't a blown tire or a mechanical failure; it was more like he and his entire crew suffered a collective mental breakdown...

Ultimately, it’s like saying someone is an elite sprinter in the 100-meter dash—he absolutely crushes the field for the first 75 meters, but then he trips over his own feet. Suddenly, the winner isn't the deserving winner.😁

I honestly don't follow your logic. I try to pour some sense into your head, but I simply can't.

Did Ayrton Senna dominate Alain Prost in Monaco? Let's hear this philosophy of yours.

Hello Hamilton had a 20-second advantage. I'm talking twenty seconds before the safety car even came out. I don't know what you're talking about, kid.

Alexander Gonzalez79 said:Total domination.🙏

Even when you mentioned Monza:


Like I said about Lewis— Pure racing essence..

Jason Campbell70 said:Even right from the moment you brought up Monza:

As I was saying regarding Lewis— it truly is the very essence of racing.

And that was back when the cars were actual machines, before all this nonsense like DRS and other modern gimmicks. It’s just tragic, really. 🙏🙏🙏🙏

mellowtiger83 said:Did Senna actually relieve himself under Prost's car during the Monaco race??? I am genuinely curious to hear some deep philosophical insights on this matter.

In what year did this supposedly occur?

mellowtiger83 said:So how on earth was he better than Rosberg? Really interesting, haha.🤣, I honestly don't even feel like responding to this; you're just tripping over your own feet here.

Man, he left him 20 seconds in the exact same car.🤦

Rosberg didn't leave him 20 seconds when you look at the full two-year stretch and the overall advantage.

Who left who 20 seconds where exactly? 🤦
A race lasts from start to finish, not just from lap 1 to lap 62...
I guess you learned that in preschool while they were telling you the story about the tortoise and the hare...☕

Besides, why lie? Hamilton's biggest lead during the actual race was 15 seconds (everything else was thanks to the SC, not his driving), and even half of those 15 seconds happened because of Sainz, Merhi, Stevens, and the rest... actually, before Rosberg and Vettel ran into Sainz and traffic, the gap was only about 7-8 seconds. And I really don't see any connection between Sainz, Merhi, Stevens, Grosjean, and Button holding up Rosberg and how that relates to Hamilton's driving skills. 🙄

stormybadger8 said:Who actually left whom twenty seconds behind? 🤦
A race lasts from start to finish, not just from lap one to sixty-two...
I assume you picked up that concept back in preschool during the story about the tortoise and the hare...☕

Beyond that, why even bother lying? Hamilton's actual advantage during the race itself was a mere 15 seconds. Everything else was simply a byproduct of the SC, not his driving. Even then, half of those 15 seconds can be credited to Sainz, Merhi, Stevens, and the rest of the pack. In fact, the gap before Rosberg and Vettel ran into Sainz and the traffic was only about 7-8 seconds. I fail to see any meaningful connection between Sainz, Merhi, Stevens, Grosjean, Button, and the crew holding up Rosberg and how that relates to Hamilton's performance. 🙄

I have no desire to continue this debate with you. It is becoming an exercise in futility.