CheckEmoji Community · the emoji forum
🏠 Home 🆕 What's new ❓ Unanswered 🔥 Popular 📡 RSS Members 👥 0 online
log in · register
Home › Lifestyle › Health › Doctors' strike

Doctors' strike

Started by Benjamin Rivera4 · · 👁 16 views · 121 replies

📡 Subscribe to replies

Participants Benjamin Rivera4slyviper47Peter Taylor63Samuel Lewis3Scott Allen10Gary Jones10Amistybear4Casey Cook10Eric Newman65Susan James42Henry Gonzalez67Amanda Diaz80Betty Bennett10Edward GreenFrank Alvarez8Carl CoxKevin White5Zachary Thompson8Megan Morales5goldengull3Hannah Davis18redbadger99Larry Ortiz2 …
Betty Bennett10 Betty Bennett10 Active Member
92 messages
joined May 2005
#41 ·
I’m a firm believer that there are corrupt doctors out there, and sure, some definitely have a set price tag for an operation, but I’ve realized more often than not that people talk about bribing physicians far more frequently than it actually happens in reality.
Zachary Thompson8 Zachary Thompson8 Newcomer
3 messages
joined May 2003
#42 ·
Kevin White5 said:Regarding bricklayer, I’m positive he’s a pro and does an incredible job. Even if what you're describing actually happened, your friend should have reported it... there are a billion paper trails out there. Look, I know there are corrupt doctors, but they're the minority, and they make everyone else look like idiots. Seriously guys, if you see something wrong, report it! It’s just that health is the one thing that actually hurts when things go south.

It happened. It really did. And who is she supposed to report it to? What evidence does she have? I told her she was being stupid for paying him after the surgery, and her response was: "Who am I even supposed to turn to if my condition gets worse?" She shut down.

I'll say it again: I know not everyone is the same. There are surely wonderful people, but they seem to be the minority. I had my daughter born at Mayo Clinic. Everyone—doctors, nurses, even the janitors—was incredibly kind and helpful. On the flip side, my mom had surgery about 10 years ago with Skenderovica at Mayo (she paid Kurjak🙄) and 👎
If anyone is from San Francisco, can you list a few cardiologists who basically sell beds? The price used to be like $5,000 back in the day.

Complain to whoever you want. The people you vent to are just as useless as the ones taking your money. The honest ones are rare and just do their jobs.

Betty Bennett10, I believe you when you say you found good doctors. But I also believe those who haven't (based partly on my own experience before moving to Germany, and the experiences of relatives and close friends who have zero reason to lie to me).

Kevin White5, you're probably still an optimist (I hope you stay that way🙂), but something is seriously rotten in the American healthcare system.
Zachary Thompson8 Zachary Thompson8 Newcomer
3 messages
joined May 2003
#43 ·
Betty Bennett10 said:Look, I know there are corrupt doctors out there who have set prices for surgeries, but honestly, I’ve realized people talk about bribing doctors way more than they actually do.

That’s exactly what I thought back when my social circle was still healthy.

A friend of mine gave cash to that bricklayer, and first, she was turned away from the hospital because—get this—they claimed there was no way to get an operation that simply. (I can't remember the doctor's name). By the way, Prof. Latin had already scheduled her two months prior, but since the professor was already retired by then, she couldn't do a thing. So, she went to the Kuva clinic, paid for all the tests and ultrasounds all over again... and then Kuvacic recommended her to his buddy, the bricklayer.🙂

And we're talking about high-level doctors here—the big shots running their own hospitals.

Since I live abroad, I feel bold enough to say this: some people stay quiet because they don't want to rock the boat until they're the ones who need a favor...

Ugh, I'm done with this thread. I just needed to vent.
Megan Morales5 Megan Morales5 Active Member
86 messages
joined Dec 2004
#44 ·
I work in IT, and it's the same story—we're constantly training and investing in ourselves (honestly, I can't think of a single profession where that isn't a requirement) and when we screw up, we pay penalties to the client. I haven't heard of anyone in American hospitals being held accountable for anything. In the hospital over in Seattle, I couldn't say for sure, but they certainly make plenty of mistakes...

I'm not sure if you own your own firm, because if you don't, the company picks up the tab for those penalties. Otherwise, I agree with you.
As far as my own experience goes—which unfortunately has been frequent lately—I actually have nothing but good things to say about American healthcare workers. Two members of my family were hospitalized recently, and they were both satisfied with the care. I didn't bribe anyone, though I know some people in my position would have reached for an envelope long ago. In a way, maybe that’s what keeps patients going—if nobody was willing to pay, they wouldn't even bother showing up to collect. I know how it is... nobody wants to fight for justice when it comes to the lives and health of their loved ones.
When this is all over, I'm thinking of bringing some flowers for the nurses and a bottle of wine for the doctor—not as a payoff, but just as a symbol of what they did...
Kevin White5 Kevin White5 Active Member
96 messages
joined Mar 2006
#45 ·
Zachary Thompson8 said:I thought the same thing back when my circle was actually healthy.

The friend who gave the bricklayer money was first struck by bad luck—as if she were cursed. I mean, how does someone even qualify for surgery like that? I can't recall the doctor's name. Anyway, Professor Latin had already ordered it two months prior, but the woman was already retired, so there wasn't much she could do then. Eventually, she went to the Kuv clinic, paid for all the tests and ultrasounds again, and that's when Kuvacic recommended her to his buddy, the bricklayer.🙂

There are two paradoxes here. Your friend gave you some... $267 Just for review and then some. $333 So, she’s probably getting stitches from a private clinic, and then she gets burned by some doctor’s recommendation—someone who only takes the easy cases because surgery is too expensive for him. Now she’s expected to shell out five times more money for an operation just because he suggested it? Please.

Second thing... if that doctor was actually asking for bribes, why did she even bother going to him? I still have my doubts about whether Professor Bricklayer would ever pull something like that, but regardless, it doesn't matter. She could have just grabbed her things and walked into any other gynecologist's office that wasn't looking for a kickback. That part shouldn't be an issue.

I remember my grandfather needing surgery once. It was an emergency—he was literally dying. My father didn't hesitate to pay whatever it took to ensure the best surgeon on staff handled the case. He wanted top-tier care, and he was happy to pay for it. Personally, I’d do the exact same thing. If you know who the best specialist is for a specific field, you pay them. We chose that surgeon ourselves and gave him what we felt was a fair amount. That isn't corruption; it's just paying for quality service.

If my father needs surgery, I want the best surgeon available. Since I know exactly who excels in which field, I'm not leaving it to chance. At the end of the day, the healthcare system is supposed to provide care for everyone. It should actually work that way.
If someone has special requests, they should just pay for private services and be done with it.

Here's to my aunt who actually gets a paycheck. $667 The mechanic charged me for that window regulator seal and the labor to install it. $667Is that humane? I don't even need to say it. She didn't have the cash for the repairs, and now her window is completely busted.

So you guys aren't even embarrassed to drop that much on cigarettes every month? $133 Or maybe even more?

I’ll say it again: everyone deserves access to healthcare. But if your friend went out of her way to see a specific gynecologist by bypassing the official referral system and using a private connection instead, then I don't know what to tell you.
When you go through a referral for surgery, you don't get to hand-pick your surgeon. You get the one who's available and knows what they’re doing. Some people have more expertise than others; some are top-tier specialists while others are just average. Personally, I’d prefer the best of the best to handle my case, but let’s be real—there aren't enough elite surgeons to go around. Under our current healthcare system, you're assigned based on what the insurance covers, not based on your personal preference for a specific doctor.
If you want options, go with private insurance. A buddy of mine works at GEICO. It'll cost you about... $667 Annual budget. Take your pick. You want private rooms and your own TV? The state we live in and the amount of tax money being allocated won't make that happen. Do you people have any idea what medications actually cost? Medicare covers them, but that's about it.

Let’s look at the math. Immunoglobulins cost about $1,100 a month. Right now, our social safety net doesn't cover it, whereas in a country like Germany, they would. Why? Because there isn't enough cash in the system. We simply can't keep up with global medical trends when we don't have a GDP anywhere near the level of Germany or, obviously, the United States.

Does anyone actually know what percentage of the Democratic National Committee's budget goes toward healthcare here in the US? Is it around 20%?
What about in America?

The scale of this problem is massive. Until we restructure the entire healthcare system using the funds already on the table, nothing changes—not for the patients, and certainly not for the doctors.

Both sides need to make adjustments if they actually want people satisfied.

For instance, I waited six weeks just for a gynecologist appointment at the campus health center!!! I could have easily gone to a private clinic tomorrow and paid $167. Honestly, I would have done that if I were actually facing an emergency. You’re looking at a two-month wait for a Pap smear. It isn't life-threatening, so I'm not rushing, but there’s always the private option if anyone is in a hurry.

That’s just my take on it. But again, if someone is doing something illegal, take it to the courts and settle it there. There's always another doctor available.
Megan Morales5 Megan Morales5 Active Member
86 messages
joined Dec 2004
#46 ·
I honestly think I’d probably do the same thing—since I actually know which specialist is best suited for which field... I'd just go ahead and pay that doctor directly.

The point is, even the top performers get paid what they're paid. And honestly? They should just deal with it—or find a new company, or maybe even move to a different state... It’s pretty simple. Just like my clients aren't responsible for how much I make or whether I'm happy with my paycheck, patients don't get to dictate terms to their doctors either. Imagine some hair stylist telling you, "Look, this is the standard price list—which, by the way, is roughly what my insurance covers for medical services—BUT, I'm the best in town, so you need to slip me an extra fifty under the table, otherwise I might just give you a terrible haircut." It hasn't occurred to anyone to act like that, has it?...
Am I really supposed to walk up to a client and tell them that if they want this project delivered on schedule—you know, actually meeting a deadline for once—they need to cut me an under-the-table deal? Because if I pull that "pay me extra under the table or I won't work because I'm a PROFESSIONAL" move... well, then I’m not a specialist at all. Honestly, I wouldn't be much of a professional, let alone a decent human being...

So, I guess it isn't technically corruption—since we were the ones who picked the surgeon and decided to pay him whatever amount we felt was appropriate... regardless of the official rate.

If your grandfather was paying into his health insurance and that service was actually billed—but the doctor in question never handed over a receipt... well, that’s just plain old corruption. Simple as that...

My dad needs surgery, and since I actually have a decent idea of how things work in different parts of the country—who’s reliable and who isn't—I’d much rather he be operated on by the absolute best...

By supporting bribery, you’re basically rooting for the exact opposite of what you claim to stand for...

So, you guys don't feel any shame about dropping that much on cigarettes every month... honestly... $133 Or maybe even more than that...

Now you’re really just feeding him nonsense. What on earth does smoking have to do with bribing doctors? Look, if I have extra cash, I might buy my girlfriend an expensive designer perfume—and yeah, maybe I feel a little guilty about it—but why on earth would I take that money and shove it into the pocket of some struggling surgeon who’s supposed to operate on her? And honestly, why shouldn't the surgeon feel the shame of charging double for the exact same service... whether she’s paying through her insurance or paying out of pocket privately...
Megan Morales5 Megan Morales5 Active Member
86 messages
joined Dec 2004
#47 ·
Does anyone actually know what percentage of the DNC's budget goes toward healthcare here in the US? Is it around 20 percent?

Do you even understand how the American healthcare system works? I think you could have picked a much better example... 😁 Over there, you can pretty much drop dead if you aren't paying out of pocket—say, if you're unemployed—so they might actually envy the US by that standard.
Kevin White5 Kevin White5 Active Member
96 messages
joined Mar 2006
#48 ·
I wouldn't call it bribery. My grandfather could have been operated on in Chicago by the top surgeon in the country, but they told us he wouldn't survive the procedure, so they didn't even want to try. The only guy with enough guts was a specific surgeon in New York. He didn't ask for a dime; we were the ones hunting him down and begging him to take the case because nobody else had the skill to handle what my grandfather was dealing with.
That doctor didn't demand anything. But if we had waited even a few more days, my grandfather would have been dead. Emergency services facilitated the transfer from Chicago immediately, and we sought out the only man brave enough to operate.
My father gave that money because he wanted to, not because anyone asked. He felt that a man who gets up in the middle of the night—when he wasn't even on call or scheduled—is doing a good deed by helping if he can. It wasn't even a massive amount of money. It was an expression of gratitude toward people who are decent and actually want to help. People who don't ask for anything, but you feel the need to give something. My father thought that was enough.

On the other hand, while my grandfather was in the hospital, a nurse couldn't even be bothered to show up when the call bell rang. I was in high school then, and I’ll never forget it. An old man handed her $100 and said, "Just show up when the bell rings." That same night, I saw her at a nightclub, smiling away. I promised myself that once I finished med school, I’d work on her unit for at least a year just to remind her of certain things. And to keep an eye on her performance. To make sure no one ever experiences that again.
Kevin White5 Kevin White5 Active Member
96 messages
joined Mar 2006
#49 ·
I’m done writing about this. It’s pointless.
Some people think doctors are scumbags, others don't.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I believe in justice. But in this country, justice is a myth.
It's happening in every single sector...
But healthcare hits hardest because it's what people care about most.

Corruption is everywhere and it needs to be wiped out.
Where are you now, goldengull3?
Megan Morales5 Megan Morales5 Active Member
86 messages
joined Dec 2004
#50 ·
Look, besides the fact that we don't see eye to eye on your specific situation or how corruption works, nobody—certainly not me—has claimed that every single doctor is on the take. Some are, sure. I’ve had my own positive experiences (did you miss that part when you were reading?), but that doesn't mean everyone else gets lucky... It’s not good to hold this kind of grudge, either. Are you really planning to land a job in her department just to keep tabs on her because she didn't show up when your grandfather rang the bell a few years back?
I honestly think this attitude does more damage to you than it does to that nurse. You can't claim to be all about justice while you're busy handing out bribes to doctors yourself.
goldengull3 goldengull3 Regular
260 messages
joined Nov 2007
#51 ·
I honestly don't understand why every discussion regarding physician salaries inevitably devolves into a debate about bribery. Both the one offering the bribe and the one accepting it bear responsibility. Those matters fall under the jurisdiction of the FBI, not something to be hashed out on a Forum. Besides, you run the risk of being sued for defamation if you start throwing names around. You should also keep in mind that you aren't actually anonymous here—if presented with a court order, the Forum would be forced to hand over your IP address, and your service provider would then turn over your actual identity.

If anyone—be it a doctor, an official, or any other individual—ever asks you for cash, report them to the FBI immediately. A significant portion of corruption in America persists simply because people accept it as a normal part of life.

But let's get back to the actual topic; this isn't about ethics violations.

As far as I am concerned, physician salaries should be aligned with those of judges. These are two professions that carry unique legal statuses and specific responsibilities, so they ought to be equalized. For instance, a junior resident should earn what a magistrate earns, a specialist with some seniority should match a county judge, and a top-tier surgeon should be at the level of a Supreme Court Justice. And that’s without even factoring in on-call shifts or overtime—those should be treated as entirely separate from standard working hours.

What truly needs to be demonopolized is the health insurance system. If I'm dissatisfied with the care I receive, I should be able to threaten my insurer with switching to a competitor, which in turn allows the insurer to pressure the hospital by threatening to withhold funding. That is how things should work. Imagine when an insurance provider tells a hospital: "We are losing policyholders because of your service, so from now on, we're sending them elsewhere." And then there's no government money left for salaries...

Instead, we have a monopoly on insurance and a monopoly on service. Furthermore, we need a precise definition of what is covered under public healthcare, and then people can opt for high-end private insurance if they wish. Of course, we must ensure that those who cannot afford it or have disabilities receive adequate coverage, while everyone else can decide whether they'd rather have a nice car or premium health insurance.
Zachary Thompson8 Zachary Thompson8 Newcomer
3 messages
joined May 2003
#52 ·
Kevin White5 said:Hmm... there are two huge contradictions here. Your friend paid about $267 just for an exam and maybe $333 for swabs at a private clinic, and then she followed some doctor's advice—who basically sticks to easy stuff because surgery isn't profitable enough—only to end up paying five times more for a surgery based on his recommendation?!

The second thing is... why did she even see that doctor if he was asking for bribes? (And again, I doubt a professor like the bricklayer would do that, but whatever). She could have easily just walked away and found a gynecologist who doesn't play those games. So that's not really the issue...

What part of this don't you get? She was desperate to fix a problem she couldn't live with anymore, and that was her only option. Plus, they didn't even tell her the actual price until after the surgery was already done.
Zachary Thompson8 Zachary Thompson8 Newcomer
3 messages
joined May 2003
#53 ·
goldengull3 said:I don't get why every conversation about doctor salaries immediately devolves into bribery talk. Both the person paying the bribe and the one taking it are equally on the hook. That’s an FBI matter, not something to be gossiping about on a Forum—where you could actually get sued for libel if you start dropping names. And just so we're clear, you aren't anonymous here. If there's a court order, the Forum hands over your IP, and then your service provider hands over your actual identity.

She wouldn't have any issues with that.😉 Because it isn't libel. She has all the records and paperwork, plus her husband was right there when the cash changed hands.
Betty Bennett10 Betty Bennett10 Active Member
92 messages
joined May 2005
#54 ·
I don't quite grasp the logic behind these arguments regarding bribery either. It’s as if people assume that kickbacks and illicit gifts are just standard operating procedure, essentially treating them as a legitimate component of a physician's salary rather than corruption 😕 Just the other day, I was watching a segment on T. Ladišić's show on TV, and some guy actually argued that doctors shouldn't be striking since they're already making money through bribes. That is essentially telling doctors to just settle for their meager official salaries and keep taking under-the-table payments to stay quiet 😕

The whole argument about being on call doesn't make sense to me either. Anyone working shifts—whether it's afternoons or overnight—gets paid extra for that time. Even at my company, we have people working afternoon and night shifts who get their differentials, and their total take-home pay ends up being higher than mine.
Kevin White5 Kevin White5 Active Member
96 messages
joined Mar 2006
#55 ·
Betty Bennett10 said:The whole myth argument makes zero sense to me. It’s like people assume bribes and gifts are just standard operating procedure, treating them like a regular part of a doctor's salary. 😕 I saw some guy on a T. Ladišić show the other day arguing that doctors shouldn't bother striking since they're already getting kickbacks. That’s basically telling doctors to just be happy with their tiny base pay and supplement it under the table. 😕

And that point about on-call shifts is equally confusing. Anyone working afternoon or night shifts gets extra pay for it. At my company, people working those hours get their differentials, and their total take-home pay ends up being higher than mine.


👍
goldengull3 goldengull3 Regular
260 messages
joined Nov 2007
#56 ·
Zachary Thompson8 said:That wouldn't be an issue for her😉 because it isn't libel. She has all the documentation and receipts, and her husband was right there when they handed over the cash.

There is no final court ruling yet—and since only a judge can determine if a crime actually occurred—what you’re saying technically qualifies as defamation.

If someone actually solicited a bribe from you, then you need to take that straight to the police, the Department of Justice, and the FBI.

Otherwise, by airing these grievances publicly, you're putting yourself in a position where you could face heavy fines, jail time, and potentially tens of thousands of dollars in damages.
goldengull3 goldengull3 Regular
260 messages
joined Nov 2007
#57 ·
Betty Bennett10 said:The whole narrative surrounding bribes doesn't make sense to me either. It’s as if people view kickbacks and gifts as standard practice, treating them like they're just a regular part of a doctor's income. 😕 Just the other day, I saw someone on that T. Ladišić show on TV arguing that doctors shouldn't even go on strike since they're already getting bribed. That's essentially telling doctors, "Just be happy with your meager official salary and keep taking side payments on the low." 😕


I find the logic equally flawed. It reminds me of when I mention on the political forums that the real issue with government administration is the difficulty of recruiting high-quality assistants—since most talented people head to the private sector where they can earn more than those $9,500-$3.25 entry-level roles and enjoy much greater job security—only to be met with comments like, "Well, then you should just take under-the-table payments." This line of thinking only serves to reinforce the idea that corruption is somehow acceptable, almost like leaving a tip for a waiter.

On a legal note, it’s worth remembering that the person offering the bribe can face the exact same penalties as the one accepting it. In the eyes of the law, the giver is considered an instigator of the crime.

Quote:
I don't follow the argument regarding on-call shifts, either. Anyone working afternoon or night shifts gets compensated extra for that. At my company, we have people on the evening and overnight rotations who have basic benefits, yet their total take-home pay ends up being higher than mine.
I agree. I have a friend who works at a processing plant—meaning there's no sleeping on the job—and he makes more than I do if he pulls five or six night shifts in a row. But I don't envy him for it; that kind of grind isn't for everyone.

It's the same way I don't envy anyone, regardless of their profession, for the extra pay they get for working through Christmas, New Year's Day, or any other holiday....
Hannah Davis18 Hannah Davis18 Active Member
170 messages
joined Sep 2008
#58 ·
Kevin White5 said:I mean, I personally remember when my grandpa had to have surgery, and my family just... they threw money at it. It wasn't even a question because he was literally dying. My dad just wanted the absolute best surgeon available, and honestly? He didn't care about the cost—he was happy to pay extra just to know he was getting the top guy. I guess I’d probably do the exact same thing if I knew which specialist was actually the best for whatever situation we were facing. I'd just pay the doctor.

this feels kind of opposite to this:
goldengull3 said:I
Just so you know—the person offering a bribe can get hit with the same penalty as the one taking it. In that scenario, the first person is basically an accomplice to the crime.
Gary Jones10 Gary Jones10 Active Member
61 messages
joined Feb 2004
#59 ·
Vojko said:There is no final verdict—and only a court can determine if a crime was actually committed—so what you're saying is defamation.

If someone solicited a bribe from you, then the police, the Department of Justice, and the FBI are the ones who handle that.

Otherwise, by speaking publicly, you could find yourself facing fines or even prison time, not to mention paying tens of thousands in damages.

The fact remains that this entire situation could have been described without mentioning the doctor's specific name and surname—provided she was willing to testify in court or file an official report.

Then again, once one of your own is in mortal danger or you are watching them suffer through an illness, rational decisions become rare. I am referring to those famous "under the table" payments.
One becomes willing to do anything, strike any deal, or turn the whole world upside down just to "pay" for a favor to get them out.

We are dealing with sensitive matters and unimaginable emotions here; people regularly act with their hearts rather than their heads. The last thing they need is judgment or being told, "Whose fault is it?" or "Why don't you just report him?"

Reporting corruption in a time and a country where all living structures are saturated with it is nothing short of a utopia.

On the other hand, just try suing a doctor for malpractice because someone's health was permanently damaged; you will surely face a debacle. Doctors stick together like the Mafia.

One of the most glaring examples is the case of the mother who died at the Holy Spirit hospital. You wouldn't believe everything her family had to endure just to get an investigation started. All of this discourages people, leading them to opt for the "painless" route—bribery, a "gift," whatever...
slyviper47 slyviper47 Active Member
97 messages
joined May 2009
#60 ·
slyviper47 said:, I still think they’ll let me in without any drama, because honestly? I'll just be there... and I ain't moving.😳


Like I said, everything went totally smooth. No big deal at all—they didn't even ask to see my referral.

👍

You must log in or register to reply here.

Log in Register

🔗 Similar threads