Doctors' strike

slyviper47 said:Look, I still think I’ll get in without making a huge scene, because once I'm there... I'm not going anywhere.😳

Like I said, everything went super smooth without any drama. He showed up right on time and didn't even bother asking for my referral.

👍

Hmm... things seem to be running pretty normally over at the Mayo Clinic.

I went in for my checkup this morning.

It wasn't anything urgent, though.

Gary Jones10 said:One of the most glaringly obvious examples is that case involving the mother who passed away at Holy Spirit. You wouldn't believe the sheer amount of bureaucratic hoops her family had to jump through just to get an investigation started. It’s exactly this kind of systemic exhaustion that discourages people, driving them toward the "path of least resistance"—whether that means bribes, kickbacks, or whatever else they call it...

A bribe wouldn't have done that mother any good at Holy Spirit. People generally die from the very things that a bribe can't fix. I don't know the specifics of what the family had to endure to trigger an inquiry, and my heart goes out to them, obviously. However, I really don't see medical malpractice being the issue here.

Things are running as usual over at the Mayo Clinic, at least regarding the department I was asking about; so, if you have any upcoming appointments or tests scheduled, don't just go ahead and cancel them without thinking it through.

The strike's wrapped up before the next round even starts.😉

Betty Bennett10 said:Bribery wouldn't help a mother at the Mayo Clinic. People die from medical complications, plain and simple. I can't imagine what that family had to endure just to get an investigation started, and my heart goes out to them. But I don't see this being a case of medical malpractice.

I wasn't even bringing up bribery; I was talking about medical accountability. If I recall correctly, the Department of Justice opened an investigation—though only after the media made enough noise to force their hand. I forget the specifics, but I believe the issue was a uterine rupture during labor that went unnoticed for hours until she fell into a coma and passed away.

Medical accountability? Non-existent. It’s the same story as when my father’s doctor "overlooked" a biopsy report that clearly showed cancer, telling him everything was perfectly fine.🙄

magriz said:Fine, let’s just equalize the salaries of doctors and judges. But what about educators? Don't they carry a unique weight of responsibility? They shape young minds, guide them through life, and teach the next generation, yet they earn roughly $1333. What about any other specialized profession?

In my view, the level of accountability required from physicians, commercial pilots, and similar roles simply cannot be compared to the responsibilities held by other professions—not even judges, since the abolition of the death penalty means there is always a path for legal recourse.

We are talking about individuals who must often make split-second decisions where the outcome is quite literally life or death; you can't draw a parallel there to people who have weeks to weigh a professional decision, consult academic literature, or seek peer reviews, especially when the consequences aren't nearly as fatal. That specific caliber of pressure isn't present in education.

After all, a student isn't going to die if a teacher gives them the wrong amount of material to cover or assigns problems that a kid is "allergic" to. 🙂

That being said, I am certainly not suggesting that teachers shouldn't receive higher pay.

Gary Jones10 said:I wasn't actually bringing up that specific case to talk about bribery, but rather to touch on medical negligence. If I recall correctly, the Department of Justice launched an investigation into the matter, though it only happened after the media started breathing down their necks and things got messy. I don't remember all the specifics, but I believe it involved a woman suffering a uterine rupture during childbirth that went unnoticed for several hours until she fell into a coma and, tragically, passed away.

Of course, there was no legal accountability found, just as there was none in my father's case, where a doctor conveniently "misplaced" a pathology report that clearly indicated cancer and told him he was perfectly fine. 🙄

Hmm, yeah, my mistake; I skimmed through your post a bit too quickly. I'm not entirely sure how that investigation concluded, but again—my point is that there was no actual liability established there, which obviously doesn't mean an investigation shouldn't happen in the first place.

I'm honestly just glad things have cooled down a bit and the conversation has moved into slightly calmer waters, I guess.

It seems like there's a bit of a misunderstanding about how the healthcare system actually works here, and yeah, there's definitely a need to fix things so that a handful of parasites don't end up ruining it for the honest majority—you know, the people who, believe it or not, actually rely on a steady paycheck...

And just one more thing that maybe people don't quite realize: when someone hands a nurse or a doctor a little gift or buys them a coffee, that’s still money leaking out of the system, I suppose.

I'm pretty sure half those users giving out little gifts would probably lose their minds if they were told they had to pay full price for an exam or a checkup (like $50-$20) just because they gave a tip; they’d immediately start complaining about how expensive everything is... even though they might not realize they’ve already indirectly paid for it by not contributing to the actual fund that pays for the services and all those doctors' salaries in the first place...

Betty Bennett10 said:Yeah, my bad. I skimmed your post way too quickly. Honestly, I have no clue how that investigation actually wrapped up, but still—I don't think there was any actual medical malpractice involved here, though that doesn't mean an inquiry shouldn't happen.

There was definitely medical negligence and failure in this case, plain and simple.

Larry Ortiz2 said:There was certainly medical malpractice and negligence involved in that situation.

I wouldn't go that far, though I have no interest in dragging this out any further. Honestly, I regret even weighing in on the matter; it was uncalled for of me.

Casey Cook10 said:I am certain half those users offering such little gifts would revolt if told they actually had to pay for the search or review they just "gifted" (50-$20). They’d immediately complain about the cost, completely oblivious to the fact that they've already paid indirectly by failing to fund the very system providing their care and paying the doctors' salaries.

You are oversimplifying and generalizing, Doctor. You are equating a simple gesture of appreciation—like a nurse receiving a gift after a patient spends ten days at the Mayo Clinic and wants to show gratitude for their care, kindness, or even just a smile—with a Chief of Medicine demanding an envelope of $500 upfront as a prerequisite for service.

loneowl45 said:I feel like you’re oversimplifying things and making some pretty broad generalizations here, Doctor. You seem to be equating a simple gift—perhaps just a small gesture of appreciation from a patient who spent ten days in the hospital—with something more calculated. In my view, it could easily be a way for someone to say thank you for the genuine care, the dedication, and perhaps just a kind word or a smile from the nursing staff. Sometimes, a patient might even leave an envelope with a few hundred dollars as a sincere token of gratitude, especially when dealing with a high-ranking Chief of Medicine or a specialist who expects that level of recognition as part of their service. I guess it isn't always as black and white as you're making it out to be.

I suppose you're making a bit of a generalization there as well, aren't you?

I suppose one might look at this from an a priori perspective. I don't think that’s quite right. I happen to know plenty of doctors and surgeons who are absolute top-tier experts in their fields, yet they would never dream of asking for a single cent for their "service."

I find myself fully supporting this strike. When you consider the sheer amount of time required to complete those advanced specializations and sub-specialties, these professionals end up undergoing some of the longest training periods in the entire country. It honestly feels quite unfair that they receive such meager salaries for the level of expertise and responsibility they carry every single day.

No, I'm certainly not a doctor, nor am I some medical student grinding through rotations.

loneowl45 said:Medical malpractice suits? Please. They don't even exist here. It’s just like what happened with my old man—some doctor "misplaced" a PHD Software biopsy report that clearly showed cancer, then looked him straight in the eye and said he was perfectly fine. 🙄

And honestly, why on earth should doctors be perfect? They’re just people. Why shouldn't they mess up sometimes? Besides, how do you even know it was the doctor who swapped out the PHD Software results instead of, say, a lab tech? Pathology isn't just one guy in a white coat; it's a whole team working together.

.........

The truth is, doctors in America get paid peanuts compared to their colleagues in places like Western Europe. And considering everything they had to grind through just to get where they are... it's rough. Even after they graduate, they're basically struggling to stay afloat. Not to mention, from what I've seen, the level of expertise here is way higher than in some Western European countries where doctors make a killing, work in much better facilities, and frankly, know a lot less. Just my two cents. Zato Doc and Studentica. 👍

Look, I'm against corruption. Plain and simple. Once everyone is actually making enough money and getting paid what they're worth, the corruption will dry up. But when is that going to happen? When pigs fly.

I think one farmer put it best.
He said:
"I feed my cows first, then I go on strike."
If doctors actually had a decent average salary, they wouldn't be striking against patients—who aren't responsible for their pay, their rights, or any of that...
Instead, they’d be striking against a system that undervalues them—assuming it even bothers to value them at all.

By the way, I disagree with some people on this forum who act like certain jobs carry less responsibility than others.
Every single profession carries weight. It’s a lie to claim nothing happens if a professor misses a few key points in a lecture. Things *do* happen. Just a few days ago, a young man jumped out of a window. Regardless of whether the blame lies with the professor, the psychologist, or the kid himself—someone is responsible.
I’d love to hear someone tell me which profession is "less important."

mistyhound2 said:Why exactly should doctors be perfect? They’re human beings, after all. Why shouldn't they be allowed to make mistakes? And besides, how can you be certain that replacing PHD Software is solely the responsibility of a physician rather than, say, a technician? In pathology, it isn't just one pathologist working in a vacuum; it's a full team made up of more than just a single individual.

.........

Generally speaking, doctors in America are paid far too little compared to their counterparts in Western Europe. Especially considering everything they endured to reach their current standing. On top of that, even after graduation, they aren't exactly in an enviable financial position. Not to mention that the level of expertise here in America is significantly higher than in some Western European countries where colleagues earn much more, work in vastly superior conditions, and yet possess less knowledge. (My own observation and experience.) Zato Doc and Studentica.👍

I am against corruption. Once everyone is earning enough and being compensated adequately, corruption will vanish. And when will that happen? When pigs fly.

There is a distinction to be made: one thing is a mistake, which can happen to anyone. That is precisely why we have diagnostic analyses—to determine what went wrong so such errors don't recur. The second thing is when someone clocks in and spends the entire day resonating with, "my pay is too low, why should I bother doing this, I couldn't care less." If you spend any time waiting in the lobby of a local clinic, you might notice that even among the nurses handling intake, there is someone who feels underpaid, so she lets others do her job—she doesn't file patient charts alphabetically, she's rude to patients, and suddenly it looks like everyone is rude... You find the same among physicians—someone decides their salary is too low to actually perform a task, so someone else has to pick up the slack. Then again, there are responsible people who understand that the essence of medicine isn't about status or a paycheck, but about a field where at any moment, you or someone dear to you could end up on the receiving end, and the system must function regardless.
Furthermore, I fail to see why doctors from Western Europe would necessarily possess more knowledge than our doctors, unless you are comparing a resident from a mid-sized American city to a department head who was among the first to perform a specific surgery in this part of the world. Our doctors are more motivated, partly because, especially in the past, there was such a massive disparity in living standards between Western Europe and this part of Southeastern Europe, and our people didn't even dream of seeking treatment in the "West."
And as for "adequate pay"—if we are measuring ourselves against the West, nobody here has an adequate salary. If the healthcare percentage is carved out of the American average, then you simply cannot expect to reach a Western European average for medical salaries.

steelsailor17 said:The most telling remark came from a local farmer.
He put it this way:
"I feed my cows first, and only then do I go out on strike."
If doctors actually had some sort of baseline standard to live by, they wouldn't be striking against patients—who aren't responsible for their pay scales, rights, or whatever else...
Instead, they would direct their frustration toward the system itself, assuming the system even bothers to respect them at all.

😕 I hear you, but how exactly is one supposed to strike "against the system"? Though, I suppose it’s common knowledge that farmers rarely bother with strikes anyway. 🙄

Transit workers don't run the buses, teachers aren't teaching, yet somehow doctors are expected to just sit there and take it? 😕

Pardon the tangent, but I wanted to point out another issue that isn't directly about the strike itself... if you head over to the Medicare website and click on "review of Medicare's paid obligations," an Excel sheet will pop up. If you scroll down to the OUTPATIENT SPECIALIST CONSULTATION HEALTHCARE section—which basically covers any clinic operating under a Medicare contract—you'll see that the payment deadline is sitting at 100 days (despite the Secretary of Health repeatedly insisting it's 60 days 🙂). You'll also notice they are already two weeks behind on payments (even though they are supposed to pay weekly), and the last payment was made back in week 51—meaning they haven't even caught up to the current year yet 😠. Of course, these providers can't really afford to strike, because Medicare can simply choose not to renew their contracts 🙄
And honestly, it might be better for your blood pressure if you didn't look into how late they are paying the pharmacies 🙄

It seems like doctors aren't actually striking against the system much anymore, considering they’re still seeing patients most of the time. During the last major walkout, I ran into an acquaintance of mine who works at a hospital, and when I asked if he was actually participating in the strike, he just gave me this deadpan response—he said they were basically just wearing their badges and playing pretend.

FedEx said:Why should doctors be perfect? They're human beings too. Why shouldn't they be allowed to make mistakes? And how can you be certain a doctor—not some technician—is actually responsible for replacing an HP? In pathology, it isn't just one person working; it's a whole team.

Look, this wasn't a simple breakdown in communication between the pathologist and the physician. The diagnosis was sent over, clearly dated, with the exact findings included.
When my father called, he was told over the phone that everything was fine and the results weren't positive for cancer. Meanwhile, the report explicitly stated that adenocarcinoma was found in three out of the six samples taken. So, he stayed silent for an entire year, until he finally went in for a second biopsy. Only then did last year's results "suddenly" reappear. What part of that is unclear?

I'm human too, and when I screw something up at work, I take responsibility. Here, nobody took ownership. Barely anyone even bothered to apologize.

FedEx said:Let's be honest: doctors in America are vastly underpaid compared to their peers in Western Europe. That’s despite everything they endured to reach this level. Even after finishing their degrees, they aren't exactly thriving.

Generally speaking, Americans are paid much worse than their counterparts in Western Europe. You have scientists with Master's degrees or those nearly finished with their PhDs earning next to nothing $1667.
When looking at the American landscape, we can all compare ourselves to Western Europe. In my own field, given my education, experience, and years on the job, someone in Western Europe earns three times what I make here. Am I expected to go on strike over that? I could easily pack my bags and head to Germany; nobody is holding me hostage. But while I am here, I have to be pragmatic and work within the constraints of the American standard.

No one is disputing that they are underpaid, but they aren't being paid any worse than other highly educated professionals in America.