Are doctors more prone to "negative careerism"?

When I talk about this "negative careerism," I’m really talking about massive egos, an overwhelming sense of self-importance, and this weird delusion that these people are somehow "special" members of society. Where did this idea even come from—that medical school is somehow more grueling than, say, studying architecture or mechanical engineering at MIT?? I was grabbing coffee with this med student recently, and she actually had the nerve to tell me she plans to aim for a role where she barely has to touch a patient at all, because "that's what nurses are there for."😲
I just don't get where this attitude comes from, whether it's from students or doctors who've already finished their residency.
Take that one politician who specialized in endocrinology—which, by the way, is a sub-specialty you only reach after years of grinding through internal medicine and endless training... anyway, he pivots to politics and then suddenly opens up a construction firm?? 😕 I mean, sure, if you just finished undergrad, fine, go explore. But to finish a whole sub-specialization just to jump into the construction business???? Then you've got the guys who were directors of local clinics and now they're running for office... honestly, there are tons of them. I think there are at least ten sitting in US Congress right now who have zero intention of ever returning to their actual profession despite how much they poured into it. 😬 It makes me wonder: can politics really be a substitute for a field defined by humanity and serving others, when politics is basically the exact opposite?

I’m actually studying medicine right now, and I can say with absolute certainty—like, 95% certainty at least—that almost none of my classmates chose this path just for the social status. And honestly, the status isn't even that great to begin with!

It’s honestly kind of ridiculous that you’re posting such nonsense. I mean, you’d have to be an idiot to pick med school for that reason. Like, imagine spending your time grinding through classes for four hours a day while everyone else is off skiing through the Alps, all just to chase some "prestigious" position that’s so common there are tons of people just like you out there!

This is awful. I really don't get why you people are so bitter toward doctors.
It’s a noble profession, the studies are incredibly grueling, and the actual work is tough and doesn't pay nearly as much as people think. You shouldn't be making these sweeping generalizations based on just a few doctors.

My mom actually had to go to the ER today for something that wasn't even an emergency, and the doctors were more than wonderful!

And yeah, let's be real, finishing med school is way harder than finishing architecture or engineering—if nothing else, just because of how long the program lasts, not to mention everything else involved.

Why are you being so jealous and resentful?

I’m out here struggling because I actually love medicine and I love helping people. And in return, I guess I'll be seeing plenty of people like you in my career. 😕

(And you're sitting here talking about groups of five or six people when, if I recall, only about 230 people enroll in the med program each year?)

Also, I have to ask,

"Where is this attitude coming from, coming from someone who isn't even a doctor?"

Is this how you’re going to act when you desperately need a doctor’s help?

Lawrence Robinson11 said:And yeah, finishing med school is way harder than architecture or engineering, simply because the program is longer. That's not even mentioning anything else.

Arrogant, rude, and plain wrong. I know people who have graduated from—or are still grinding through—those two majors, and I know plenty of medical students and doctors too. I have a real sample size for comparison. You didn't even bother to mention Computer Science at MIT, which is what I studied, and let me tell you, it was incredibly straightforward for us.
You certainly aren't lacking in arrogance or pretension, nor in your tendency to belittle others. Honestly, those traits alone answer all your questions. Consider this my final word on the matter; I’m done talking to you. You possess far too many of the qualities I despise. 🙂

Michael Cox40 said:At the same time, I’m cutting off any further conversation with you because you have just about every trait I can’t stand. 🙂

Well, we'll just have to see if you still feel like saying that when you need me to check over some paperwork or maybe when you're dropping off my coffee! 🙄

And, I don't really see what would be arrogant about pointing out that pulling a six-year degree is definitely harder than finishing up at MIT in four and a half.

Yeah, I suppose telling the truth can come across as arrogant sometimes.

Oh, come on... everyone is stuck in school for six years anyway. It just feels easier for medical students because they spread out the workload over six years, whereas we're cramming the same amount of material into four... Honestly, I’d much rather focus on just one subject for two months and knock it out immediately. Life would be so much easier if we could do that...
And let me tell you, I know plenty of people who finished med school, and most of them don't actually want to work with patients. They just want to collect that massive paycheck they think they "deserve" because they're a prestigious doctor or whatever... it's honestly gross.
Not to mention the absolute state of the healthcare system... you end up waiting years for an appointment, mostly because "the doctor" is busy grabbing coffee until 9:00 AM while people have been sitting in the waiting room since 7:00... it's the same old story...

Ethan Taylor12 said:Oh, please... everyone spends six years in school anyway... it's just easier for med students because they spend those six years covering the same amount of material we cram into four... honestly, I'd actually love to just focus on one subject for two months and pass it right then and there... it would be so much easier for me...

You're just talking nonsense here, unverified nonsense.
If I'm spending two months on a single subject, it's because that textbook is over 1,000 pages long.
I mean, you sound kind of ridiculous. Are you trying to suggest that medical school just "stretches out" four years of content over six? lol

Do you have any idea how much studying is required daily in med school?🤣 I'm pulling seven-hour sessions for some subjects, and don't even get me started on the fact that I can barely afford to miss a single month of classes!

I can tell you, I know plenty of people who finished med school and most of them have zero desire to actually work with patients; they just want to collect a massive paycheck because they feel they "deserve" it as "distinguished doctors" and all that... it's just gross...

HOW many people is "plenty"??? 5? 10? 50? That is NOT a lot.
And what about the people you know who don't want to do ANYTHING at all after finishing med school?
Are professions only valuable if they involve direct patient care? What about a doctor working in a lab researching new drugs—don't they serve humanity too? For crying out loud!

And don't even get me started on the state of healthcare... people wait years for an appointment, mostly because the "distinguished doctor" is busy grabbing coffee until 9 AM while people have been waiting since 7 in the morning... and so on.

And you think doctors are to blame for that "state" of affairs? Maybe it's politics or the economy instead?🤣

Well, bravo on the post, I guess.🤣 👎

Lawrence Robinson11 said:we'll see if you're still talking like this when you need a checkup or if you're just gonna bring me a coffee instead.🙄
and, I don't know what would be so arrogant about saying it's harder to study for six years versus four and a half at MIT.
yeah, truth can be pretty arrogant sometimes.

of course it's harder.

but it's not nearly as much harder as you're making it out to be.

don't talk to me about arrogance; I'd rather you just learn how to distinguish between things when you're writing referrals, I don't know.😁

edit; looks like I'm not even allowed to give you any grief anymore.🤣

Lawrence Robinson11 said:We'll see if you're still acting this way when you need a checkup or if you'll just bring me a coffee instead!🙄

And honestly, I don't see what's so arrogant about pointing out that a six-year program is tougher than doing four and a half years at MIT.

Yeah, sometimes the truth can sound a little cocky...

Come on, let's get real here. Don't turn into one of those doctors...

From what I can tell, they have a pretty sweet setup in society—great salaries, endless trips and conferences paid for by big pharma, better treatment at the banks, and all that.
In our culture, "Doctor" is such a heavy title that nobody really wants to cross them.

BTW, in my opinion, Mechanical Engineering is just as brutal as Med School. But honestly, arguing over which major is harder feels kind of pointless...

Ethan Taylor12 said:And don't even get me started on the healthcare system... you can end up waiting years just for an appointment. Mostly because the doctor is busy sipping coffee until 9 AM while people have been sitting in the waiting room since 7... and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

It isn't just the doctors, either—the rest of the medical staff can be just as bad. They act like they're doing everyone a massive favor just by showing up. Honestly, that's just how it goes at government-run facilities. I know firsthand because I actually work in a hospital... absolutely nothing gets done unless it's absolutely critical. There are exceptions, sure, but they are rare...

Hannah Davis18 said:Of course it’s harder.

But I wouldn't say it's *that* much harder, if you know what I mean.

And honestly, let's skip the whole arrogance thing; I'd much rather you just focus on learning how to distinguish between things when you're writing out those medical referrals, for instance.😁

Edit: I see I'm clearly not allowed to push back without causing a scene here.🤣

Look, I never actually said it was way harder.😕

I'm a bit stuck on something though—is it "I don't know" or "I dontknow"? Is there even a rule for that?😬 ???

Lawrence Robinson11 said:I never actually said it was way harder😕

I don't even know if I should say "don't know" or "dunno"😬 ???

I mean, come on, you've probably read like a thousand pages by now, surely you've seen how to spell that properly
😲

You actually wrote it much worse; plus, this is just your first post in this thread👍

Casey Palmer5 said:Come on, get real. Don't turn into one of those kinds of doctors.

From where I'm sitting, they actually have a pretty solid standing in society—great salaries, tons of paid trips, and all those conferences sponsored by big pharma companies, not to mention getting better treatment at the banks and stuff.
In our culture, a doctor is always "the doctor," you know? It's like nobody ever wants to call them out or hold them accountable.

BTW, if you ask me, an engineering degree from somewhere like MIT is at least just as tough as med school. But, I guess there's probably no point even arguing about which major is harder.

What's the actual problem here?!

Are you serious?!
Is the issue really just that they have a good standing in society? So, what, doctors shouldn't have a good status? Should they have a bad status instead? Is that what we deserve?
And who exactly is supposed to have the high status...?! Go ahead, tell me your hierarchy.🙄

The one thing that’s actually decent about med students—especially the freshmen—is this:

a) they actually grow up eventually...
b) most of them end up just writing scripts and basic instructions for antibiotics (you know, your typical GP)

People like Lawrence Robinson11 usually don't even make it through the program.

Like I've mentioned a few times before, I honestly believe the majority of doctors here in the States are capable, skilled, selfless, and truly dedicated to helping their patients.
Unfortunately, there's always that certain group that isn't, and they just end up giving everyone else a bad name...

Lawrence Robinson11 said:and yeah, finishing medical school is way tougher than grinding through architecture or engineering

So, just don't go looking for any deep wisdom in my rambling...

Lawrence Robinson11 said:so you think you deserve this huh?

Seriously though—what year are you even in? You actually think you're some kind of doctor already?...

Casey Palmer5 said:Come on, get real here. Don't end up being one of those kinds of doctors.

From what I can gather, they actually have a pretty cushy spot in society—great salaries, endless paid trips, and all those conferences sponsored by big pharma, not to mention getting better treatment at banks and stuff like that.
In our culture, a doctor is always treated like "Mr. Doctor," and honestly, nobody really wants to cross them.

BTW, if you ask me, an engineering degree is at least just as brutal as medical school. But, I suppose there’s really no point in arguing about which major is harder.

...so, what you're trying to say is that doctors have a great standing in society, yet they actually deserve a bad one? Is that it?
Or are they lower on the ladder than we think?! Good grief, and here I am being called an arrogant doctor.

Regarding which college is tougher, it would be wonderful if you had just studied both so you could actually compare them. But since there's no point in debating the difficulty of a degree, I guess that's why you haven't done it, right?

Anyway, let's talk about bad engineers.
Or bad professors...

I had some lady recently teach English so poorly that she probably thinks she has a high social standing just because she's a "Miss Professor."🙄

Jose Miller3 said:Seriously, what year are you in? Do you actually think you're a doctor already?

No, I am a god, not a physician.😕

Jose Miller3 said:b) most of them end up just being glorified prescription pad writers and recipe bookers for antibiotics (your average GP)

🤣 🤣 🤣 Well, bravo. Just... bravo. That was actually quite a fair point.

Lawrence Robinson11 said:...so you're saying doctors have this high status when they actually deserve a much lower one? Is that it?
Or are they just lower on the totem pole?! Good grief, and here I am being an arrogant doctor.

Why are you twisting my words? They shouldn't have "low" status, they should just be more level with people who earned it just as much. No reason for them to be pulling such a massive lead compared to everyone else today.

Regarding which major is harder, it would be great if you'd studied both so you could actually compare. But since debating college difficulty is pointless, I guess you didn't go, right?

Joe Biden, you were the first one to claim it's way harder to finish med school than engineering or architecture. Did you study both, or what?

Carol Jackson45 said:Why are you twisting my words? I mean, they shouldn't get special treatment just because of their degree, but they really ought to be on a more level playing field with people who worked just as hard for their spots. There isn't any logical reason for them to be pulling such a massive lead over everyone else right now.

Haha, okay, so who exactly deserves the same status? A Bachelor's in Engineering? I don't know, maybe once he finishes his PhD, he can jump ahead of me in line at the Chase Bank.

Joe Biden, weren't you the first one to say that it's way harder to finish med school than it is to study something like mechanical engineering or architecture? Since you studied both, I guess you're qualified to compare, right?

Actually, no, I didn't... but I definitely wasn't the one saying we shouldn't even be having this debate...

And yeah, obviously it's way harder to spend six years in school instead of four. I'm not sure why that seems so confusing to some of you.

4 + 2 = 6...