Troy

Maybe it’s just because they’re fictional characters... you know, those Greek heroes.

It ties right back to The Iliad—you've got the Iliad (Troy), Achilles, Hector, Ajax, Agamemnon, the Greeks, the Trojans, the Trojan War, the horse, Odysseus...

Okay, sure, it’s simplified, but wouldn't you love to see someone actually give that massive slog of a book a dignified screen adaptation? Besides, I think these "simplified," Americanized movies can actually pull in smarter viewers; if the themes intrigue them, it might just nudge them toward diving into the core source material.

And honestly, on a psychological level, I actually prefer it this way. It feels more "realistic." I absolutely loathe that sense of predestination that serves as the constant leitmotif throughout all that Greek mythology. Those gods of theirs... I mean, watch how people used to worship them, yet according to their own myths (which are just fictional stories, after all—they could have told whatever nonsense they wanted), most of them turn out to be absolute jerks and total scumbags. Most of them, anyway. Except for Athena. 😍

And I have to disagree that the movie is a joke. *Naked Gun* is a joke. *Airplane!* is a joke. Troy definitely isn't a joke. You can criticize it for not being faithful to the original—though one has to wonder how that original would even function in a film medium anyway. This reminds me of those debates with diehard Lord of the Rings book fans who refuse to respect the differences between mediums, constantly screaming for blood and calling the screenwriters names.

Personally, I enjoy the dose of creativity Petersen had to tap into to craft such a "different" version of Troy, giving it this gritty, pseudo-historical "vibe." Otherwise, we might have ended up with something like Xen, Hercules, or that absolute nightmare, Dungeons & Dragons: The Movie. God forbid!

SPOILERMAN! said:The Achaeans sneak into Troy by building this massive wooden horse to hide a bunch of Achaean heroes inside. The whole city gets leveled, but Aeneas makes it out alive and ends up founding the Roman Empire.

.....to build on what Nancy Kim2 said...

WHAT WAS THIS WRITER EVEN TRYING TO SAY?????

...like, was he supposed to be writing the screenplay for Troy????? 😂

What absolute garbage of a movie.
Watching this, I honestly thought I was looking at some big-budget Hollywood blockbuster.
I have no clue where they spent that $200 million, because there isn't a single trace of production value to be found.
The acting was borderline pathetic, but hey, let's just say it was amateur hour.
Not enough blood and not enough skin to keep me interested.
I ended up just eating my popcorn the whole time—that's how bad it was!

casualotter21 said:Me? What are they saying?

There isn’t anything groundbreaking there, really, though the way it’s framed within the broader narrative is quite intriguing... One of the characters muses on how it seems odd at first glance that Athena is considered a goddess of both war and crafts, given that the Greeks already had Ares for warfare and Hestia for domestic arts; he suggests it might be more accurate to view her as a goddess of technology rather than just wisdom or craft—more specifically, the kind of wisdom and intellect applied directly to solving complex problems, much like you see in the Odyssey with one of her favorites... He draws a parallel to Native American trickster gods like Raven and Coyote, noting the distinction that the Native Americans hadn't quite developed the specific level of technology required to merge that "Trickster with Crafts" archetype into this unique hybrid Technologist god... He also compares her to Loki, though the difference is that Loki is, well, a bit of a jerk who feels closer to Ares in temperament, even if his methods align more with Athena... It’s presented as the root of the American love-hate relationship with hackers—where the trickster was a positive, admired figure among Native Americans, but viewed as malevolent by the Norwegians... Finally, he posits that the Allies won World War II because they possessed superior technology, which they had precisely because they were essentially Athena worshippers, whereas the Nazis were more akin to Ares worshippers.

Of course, since the character speaking wears an Athena medallion and the author spends their time writing about cryptography, cyberspace, and data havens in East Asia, it’s hardly surprising they take such a decidedly pro-geek, brain-over-brawn stance...

But let’s be real, Athena had quite the wicked sense of humor. It always makes me think of that Iliad picture book I mentioned earlier—it’s obvious the guy had a massive crush on Athena too. Now, Aphrodite is just sort of... dainty and soft? Sure, she’s gorgeous, obviously, a total knockout, but whatever. Hera is more like a stuffy, high-strung matriarch (though Zeus is drawn pretty impressively himself), but Athena 😍 ... Athena is breathtaking, majestic, and sublime, yet she still carries this little spark of joy and laughter in her eyes. There’s even an illustration in the Odyssey where she looks so warmly compassionate, showing that deep (platonic) affection for Odysseus. Man... oh man, why did I lose those picture books during my move? Just to be clear, don't go thinking this is some "picture book" for kids like Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs or some nursery rhyme nonsense; it’s more like a collection of fine art. Each page features one large, full-color image that blends into a watermark style beneath the text. Honestly, the graphic design is just top-tier.

Speaking of which, I absolutely love the scene where Athena mocks that hot-headed, aggressive brute of a guy (who, if he survived to today, would probably be a Throwing god or Bald Crimos) just to make him run off the battlefield like a total wimp.

Out of all the gods backing the Trojans, my absolute favorite is—can you guess who?—Skamander! Wheooow, seriously? He's the river god of the Skamander, which flows right near Troy. Apollo is a bit much for me; he’s kind of an arrogant jerk, and I get the feeling the Greeks slighted him because they didn't show him enough respect when they attacked "his" city—excuse me, *his* city?! As if he actually gives a damn about the Trojans. Skamander, though, is so chill. For most of the war, he stays out of the fray, only stepping in with "tactical" magic to help the Trojans when a skirmish breaks out near his river, since he’s technically a lesser god. But you can tell he’s deeply connected to the people's suffering throughout the whole conflict. The only time he truly loses it is when the Grkljans slaughter a massive amount of Trojans right in the river itself... maybe during a festival or something... that's when he stops caring about being a "lesser" god and just unleashes everything he's got on those miserable Grkljans.

Nancy Kim2 said:Athena is gorgeous, sublime, and majestic, yet she carries this subtle sense of cheerfulness and a twinkle in her eye; there are even moments in the Odyssey where she appears so warmly compassionate.

Good grief, Nancy Kim2, you sound like you're describing the Supreme Commander's right-hand man: "A face of beauty and a voice of command, radiating absolute authority over the resistance troops, yet paired with a warm gaze and a mouth that seems perpetually on the verge of a smirk—that was our leader, Josip Broz Marshall."

Personally, I thought Athena was cool when I was a kid because she was the goddess of wisdom and cunning. Nowadays, she’s cool because she’s a total babe in armor!!111one

...

And people claim that with age comes wisdom and maturity.

I read that Brad is starring in this one, so I guess I’ll probably head over to see it... maybe on Monday when the tickets at Cinestar are a bit cheaper... I can already picture him just running around half-naked through the whole movie... 😍

casualotter21 said:Honestly, I loved Athena when I was a kid because she's the goddess of wisdom and cunning. But today? She's cool because she’s basically a total babe in armor!!111one
...
And people actually claim you get wiser and more sensible as you age.

[Leo from the crazy seventies-Anderlonmod]Good grief, please! [/Leo from the crazy seventies-Anderlonmod] 😎

Dammit, that guy always outcompresses me in writing! Not the most difficult of tasks! D'oh!

👍

I'm being totally outwritten!

**SPOILER ALERT**

The movie's actually good. It runs about two and a half hours, and my only gripe was the uncomfortable seats (ever since I started hitting up Cinestar, I've become a total snob about legroom...). We all know that even if that battle actually happened, it wasn't being run by gods. Brad captures that perfectly when his Achilles cuts the head off that statue. It’s like a brighter, more grounded version of Lord of the Rings where you don't have clear-cut heroes and villains—everyone is just somewhere in the gray area, except for the "evil king." There’s no magic involved (huge plus in my book), plenty of strong women, and tons of combat (with heaps of bodies on both sides). If any of this really went down, it probably looked more like this film than *The Iliad*.

My favorite part is right at the start, when Achilles shows up to the fight absolutely livid, crushes it, and then stomps away from that tall guy even angrier than before.👍

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..Brad's backside is just pure softness🙂 😁 😁

I just wanted to touch on a few specific points:

nimblemarlin17 said:there are some good women,

Then there’s Helen, who comes across like your typical All-American high school cheerleader sweetheart, though we don't really get a sense of her actual personality.

Hector's wife is decent enough, in principle, but again, her character is barely explored...

There's Briseis, who isn't quite as "good" as Hector's wife, but she is actually a pretty great character...

It's true, there are good women. It's just that they exist in very small quantities—namely, Briseis, and that's about it...

plenty of babes

For sufficiently small values of "plenty."

I mean, the movie is about the Trojan War. And the war in this film lasts about sixteen days...

Character development for the actresses? Please. 😁 Look, I never said the movie wasn't just mindless Hollywood entertainment for the masses. Just don't come at me with all that talk about "character arcs" or other "artistic" nonsense. For heaven's sake, I paid $10, and I intend to have a good time. 😉

Yeah, one more thing... Am I tripping, or did I spot a few faces from Scotland among those soldiers? Maybe someone already brought this up (and maybe I’m just looking stupid 😁), but I’m genuinely wondering if it's actually them. It's those guys with the beards—I'm positive I've seen them in some other movie before (and honestly, nothing else really compares to that one).

Nancy Kim2 said:I actually feel the same way on a psychological level; it feels a bit more "realistic" this way...

Even if you put quotes around "realism," I still have to protest.
There’s hardly any realism here when the Greek fleet is three times too large, and Troy—which was supposedly the wealthiest, most powerful city of its era—doesn't even exist. 😁
I suppose they got rich because they had a perfect interstate highway system or thousands of heavy-duty semi-trucks at their disposal. 😕
And of course, the first line of defense is set up at sea and along the coast, yet Achilles practically conquers Troy within the first thirty minutes of the war. 🤔

It doesn't matter to me that A and B are the main heroes (a classic Hollywood trope); Odysseus is completely sidelined and reduced to some useless bystander. It's a total fabrication, because Odysseus deserves far more credit for the fall of Troy than a hundred Achilles. 🙂

And if we're talking about realism, we should point out that Helen moving from Sparta to Troy is roughly the same distance as someone moving from Montpelier to Paris today. 👋

I was just going off pure vibes. Look, man to man, this could have been way worse. It could’ve been some Hercules or Xena rip-off with like, a million different myths and legends from 1000 B.C. thrown into a blender—you know, the whole Alan Quatermain type deal where every second person is a wizard or a god, and there's nothing but lens flares flying everywhere. I mean, look at Dungeons & Dragons the movie; having even one Jeremy Irons didn't save it from being a total disaster (man, talk about embarrassing, just look at him 🙂)
.
We could argue about this until tomorrow, but honestly? I love it. I'm going to go watch it again and again and again because, like they say, it's got everything: swords and armor, a solid story underneath, great actors with what I'd call decent—if not phenomenal—characterizations, good extras, and you know, that classic, golden Hollywood historical spectacle feel.

But man, I can never forgive them for how they handled The Odyssey 🙂... especially when I saw that Sean Bean was playing the lead 🙏 🙏 🙏... unbelievable
.
Also, Achilles is alright, but Hector is a much bigger legend in my book. [Pornellomod]Braz is awesome[/Pornellomod].

nimblemarlin17 said:What about the actresses' characters?

I wasn't actually talking about the actresses...

Who cares? 😁 I never claimed this wasn't just a typical Hollywood popcorn flick meant for the masses. Please, spare me the lecture on character development and other "artistic" nuances. Dammit, I paid $10, I just want to be entertained. 😉

Exactly. And that’s precisely where the movie falls short...

nimblemarlin17 said:The film is solid. It runs about two and a half hours, though I found the seating to be quite uncomfortable—ever since I started frequenting AMC Theatres, I suppose I've become a bit of a snob regarding legroom.

Oh, absolutely. I completely get where you're coming from. Jay keeps wondering why he and cp.taru are constantly complaining about that specific chair at the Mall of America near Times Square. There's just nothing like it—honestly, if I could just haul that armchair home, I’d spend my entire day parked right in front of the TV in it.

There is no magic left.

Of course it happens: 50,000 Achaeans land 1,000 ships at Troy and manage to prep for battle in literally one day. D-Day, eat your heart out! That’s the fundamental flaw in those supposedly "realistic" epic films. When stuff like that happens in Lord of the Rings, I just shrug it off and think, "Whatever, it's epic fantasy; that kind of logic is part of the deal." But when they try to pull that nonsense in a "historically accurate reconstruction" of the Trojan War, it just sucks.

Like I said before: the filmmakers are trying to have it both ways—they want to be grounded and realistic while simultaneously aiming for that epic, larger-than-life scale. MAKE UP YOUR FREAKIN' MIND, PEOPLE!

My favorite part has to be that opening sequence where Achilles storms onto the battlefield in a total rage, absolutely dominates, and then stomps off even more furious after clashing with that tall guy.

The rule of the stage! 👍 👍

You can't have your cake and eat it too, but the reality is I usually rewatch average movies about ten times, yet this one? I've barely checked it twice. That alone gives it a 👍 No matter how dumb it is... (and let's be real, it is)

Solid rating! I’m honestly crossing my fingers that short attention span is finally on the mend! 😁I’ve heard through the grapevine that calcium can actually work wonders for that! 👍