It's time to replace the Stinger!

casualmason4 said:So what if it is? I mean, this is a free country where there isn't any censorship... or at least, there really shouldn't be, I guess.

I mean, if someone feels like they need to write, I guess they just... need to write? You know? Just let them do their thing. As long as they aren't being offensive or anything, I don't see why not. That’s really the whole point of a place like Reddit, isn't it? To give people a spot to share stuff, maybe post some photos, or just pass along info... it's fine, really.
Just imagine... what if one person just stopped posting? Or maybe two? Then five? What if fifty people quit? Or ten thousand? What if everyone just... vanished? What kind of forum would that even be? I mean, would it even be a forum anymore? Maybe not. I guess.

Alright man, from what I can gather looking at these messages... you probably aren't cut out for the moderator role, just like the guy who started this thread said. And honestly, it's because:
The way people treat each other... I mean, maybe it's totally fine in Canada or Mexico, but in America? Not so much.
You know, I feel like some of the posts you're putting out there... I don't know, they've got this specific vocabulary, almost like someone from the rural hillsides watching sheep or something. It just feels a bit out of place for the main American forum, I guess. Maybe it’s just me, but it doesn't quite fit the vibe here.
I guess it’s just one of those things... like, constantly getting into arguments with people. It happens more often than I'd like, I suppose.
4. A lack of authority (maybe you had some once? but I guess you lost it...)
Maybe some others could jump in and add to this... I guess.

I've said my piece... I just hope that stepping down from power doesn't end up offending you too much!

Honestly, I was hoping someone calling themselves an intellectual wouldn't spend their time counting blood cells and judging people by where they're from. I thought an intellectual would realize how insulting that is to the members and visitors of this forum outside of America. It's the same deal as when I've tried explaining things multiple times to someone who claims to be an intellectual and asks for help, only to get no response. Now I feel the need to repeat myself just so they get it: Is it that an intellectual can't understand, or just won't? As for the fighting, I only get into conflicts because of people themselves and having to explain the same thing over and over again.

Do you notice how many times I've mentioned "explaining it so many times" or "explaining it endlessly" over the last few days? Do you notice that, Mr. Blood Cell Counter of the region's biggest forum?

mellowotter3 said:1.I could list plenty more, but I'll just say you're arrogant and rude... why does that bother you when everyone already knows that's how you are? It's easy, though—like a beggar holding a stick, pointing out everyone else's business while ignoring your own.👍

2. Right... I could address that "later I clear it out" comment regarding regular users... but then again, those who get provoked by others in a discussion end up getting penalized too... right?
How many warnings have you racked up so far?

None... I've never even been banned from a forum. If I actually messed up, I’d get the hint. Nobody ever had to spell out the rules ten times for me to figure out what's allowed and what isn't, or why.

mellowotter3 said:1.I could list plenty more, but I'll just say you're arrogant and rude... why does that bother you when everyone already knows that's how you are? It's easy, though—like a beggar holding a stick, pointing out everyone else's business while ignoring your own.👍

2. Right... I could address that "later I clear it out" comment regarding regular users... but then again, those who get provoked by others in a discussion end up getting penalized too... right?
How many warnings have you racked up so far?

bro, HE doesn't collect them, he hands them out. And there aren't any polls, NONE. He just needs arguments that he can decide for himself whether they're actually good or not... at least, that's my take.

Megan Cruz2 said:Honestly, it seems like not everyone here is using their head. Grown adults spending their time getting annoyed, picking fights, and wasting precious energy on some online forum—something that isn't even real life—really makes me think you all have way too much free time and not nearly enough sense.👎

You just don't get the vibe of this forum or why people actually show up here... I mean, seriously, would this place even be this popular if we weren't important?
Look, life isn't just about the stuff you can actually get your hands on, you know? It’s deeper than that. Have you ever heard about the Crusades? Seriously. They fought those massive wars over religion—over things you can't even touch or hold in your hand. Just abstract ideas and faith... crazy, right?

Here’s my take on this thread, which I’d probably have started myself if I were one of the old-school members here.

Look, I think it's obvious to all of us that being a moderator comes with a massive amount of responsibility alongside the power you gain. You have to handle it responsibly and impartially—at least most of the time.

But let's be real: the way Michael Lee4 demonstrates his power through his moderation, his sarcasm, and the constant—both overt and subtle—mocking and insulting of users who don't fall in line, is definitely not a textbook example of good leadership.

Let me explain why I say that...

Our local "love him or hate him" figurehead has proven time and again that his actions are driven by pure ego. Honestly, it’s gotten to the point where I can’t tell if we’re dealing with Michael Lee4’s ego or if the ego itself has become its own entity.

I’ll look back at things over the last three years or so...

Back on the car boards, some troll using a handle like Rionero would start a "BMW vs. Mercedes" thread. What began as a total troll thread turned into a virtual hangout for many of us. We'd discuss everything vaguely related to PF, but genuine friendships formed there—offline, of course (to the extent that I actually spent my vacation this year staying with User and partying with User and User). It was all built on banter and casual conversation. Naturally, the popularity and post count grew because of it. If I remember correctly, Michael Lee4 wasn't a mod when the thread started, but he became one later. Basically, during that era, there was very little off-topic chatter elsewhere because everything centered on that one thread, making it the perfect digital lounge.

If you click the link to that thread and read even just the first 10 or 20 pages, you’ll be laughing your head off—and pay close attention to who wrote the very first post after the OP:

Of course, the main roadblock was Michael Lee4. He used to complain about us on other threads regarding that specific discussion. Even if he didn't delete those posts, I really don't have the energy to spend hours digging through archives to prove what he'll just deny anyway—not to mention he called me mentally unstable in a private message.

Then, once Michael Lee4 felt sufficiently empowered by his mod tools, one day the thread just vanished. It disappeared as if it never existed, without any warning or explanation. That was my first real glimpse of his character, which is ultimately the biggest stumbling block and the reason people are calling for a change in leadership.

It wasn't until about a month ago that I received a blunt, baseless explanation via DM: "there's no room for chat on the car boards." I don't buy that for a second. Productive conversations can come from anywhere, including a chat thread.

Anyway, the thread was dumped into the off-topic section—which is a tier below the recycling bin—and predictably fell into oblivion since it was technically part of the automotive PF. I honestly suspect this was a calculated move to make it look like the topic wasn't popular and deserved to die out.

My experience with Michael Lee4 shows someone who can hold a perfectly normal conversation right up until someone presents a solid argument or proves him wrong. Once that happens, the insults start—subtle in a DM, or blatant through deleting posts and handing out warnings. It’s the classic double standard: I call someone an idiot and get a warning, but he calls someone a MORON and gets a pass. And it’s not a one-off thing; it’s chronic, like bronchitis.

That aforementioned game of guessing cars was shut down abruptly and autocratically, without any prior warning. It was bottom-tier moderation. Thank God that out of a dozen or so posts, I managed to nail half of them on other PFs. I've dealt with other moderators before, and their style isn't anywhere near this. I honestly don't know how to describe this level of moderation without resorting to insults or getting a warning myself. Besides, I have no desire to stoop to Michael Lee4's level or give him the satisfaction of handing me a warning or a ban.

I also think a moderator should be able to tell the difference between a new user who’s just struggling to navigate the forum waters and a clone or troll who's specifically here to flame people and cause trouble. The former needs some gentle guidance, not to be immediately met with all guns blazing and handed a ban from the PF.

Real life is serious and difficult enough for all of us; we come here for information and a bit of relaxation and banter. But how are you supposed to relax when you're waiting around wondering if Michael Lee4 is going to jump out from around a corner with a red or yellow card? For God's sake, if this were soccer, fans would have torn him to shreds by halftime...

I know Michael Lee4 will probably start making excuses now through jokes, sarcasm, and provocations—but honestly, his chosen avatar says more about him and his ego than anything else.

I’ll also touch on that Lupo topic and those lukewarm apologies from Michael Lee4 about not being able to make it—look, I don't care if you couldn't make it, but you seem to find time for everything else, and that topic was bumped to the top of the PF for over seven days. Cj7 deserved at least a three-day ban for openly insulting forum members, but he DIDN'T GET ONE. He deserved the topic to be locked, but YOU only did that once the anti-comments reached massive proportions. Honestly, that topic probably would still be at the top right now if you had acted sooner.

I won't call you a shill for certain car brands or a journalist or any of those other nonsense labels, because I know that isn't true. You're simply incapable of being a quality moderator for this PF.

But the fact remains: based on your reactions, it looks like you blindly support one specific brand while refusing to allow any comparisons with other brands regarding design, price, quality, etc., always following up with that weak explanation that "this topic isn't for that." For crying out loud, where are we supposed to discuss it then? On a cooking forum?

This, like any other PF, should be a place where people can't wait to visit to read something new and have a laugh, provided it doesn't cross the line into insults. It shouldn't be a chore to check in.

Michael Lee4—you said yourself that you don't need this moderation in your life and that things would be easier without it, SO WHY DON'T YOU JUST STEP DOWN?

Also, I'm curious why the poll isn't public so we can see how everyone voted.

That's all from me for now. There's a lot on my mind, and maybe it's not perfectly polished, but if I think of anything else, I'll write it down.

Michael Lee4 said:Honestly, I was hoping someone calling themselves an intellectual wouldn't spend their time counting blood cells and judging people by where they're from. I thought an intellectual would realize how insulting that is to the members and visitors of this forum outside of America. It's the same deal as when I've tried explaining things multiple times to someone who claims to be an intellectual and asks for help, only to get no response. Now I feel the need to repeat myself just so they get it: Is it that an intellectual can't understand, or just won't? As for the fighting, I only get into conflicts because of people themselves and having to explain the same thing over and over again.

Do you notice how many times I've mentioned "explaining it so many times" or "explaining it endlessly" over the last few days? Do you notice that, Mr. Blood Cell Counter of the region's biggest forum?

😂😂😂 this is priceless 😂😂

Seriously, man, you’re the one who profiled me based on how and how fast I managed to spam 1,500 posts 🤣🤣🤣 and now it bothers you when someone gives you a taste of your own medicine?

Does it ever click in that head of yours just how inconsistent, hypocritical, and narrow-minded you're being? Is that really how you think? God forbid someone actually calls you out—then it's an immediate landslide of sarcasm, irony, and insults coming at you...

Do you even realize that everything you claim to hate about other users on this forum is exactly what you’re doing yourself? Do you ever just step up and admit it publicly: "Sorry guys, I went a little too far..."

Anthony Lopez5 said:Here’s my take on this thread, which I’d probably have started myself if I were one of the old-school members here.

Look, I think it's obvious to all of us that being a moderator comes with a massive amount of responsibility alongside the power you gain. You have to handle it responsibly and impartially—at least most of the time.

But let's be real: the way Michael Lee4 demonstrates his power through his moderation, his sarcasm, and the constant—both overt and subtle—mocking and insulting of users who don't fall in line, is definitely not a textbook example of good leadership.

Let me explain why I say that...

Our local "love him or hate him" figurehead has proven time and again that his actions are driven by pure ego. Honestly, it’s gotten to the point where I can’t tell if we’re dealing with Michael Lee4’s ego or if the ego itself has become its own entity.

I’ll look back at things over the last three years or so...

Back on the car boards, some troll using a handle like Rionero would start a "BMW vs. Mercedes" thread. What began as a total troll thread turned into a virtual hangout for many of us. We'd discuss everything vaguely related to PF, but genuine friendships formed there—offline, of course (to the extent that I actually spent my vacation this year staying with User and partying with User and User). It was all built on banter and casual conversation. Naturally, the popularity and post count grew because of it. If I remember correctly, Michael Lee4 wasn't a mod when the thread started, but he became one later. Basically, during that era, there was very little off-topic chatter elsewhere because everything centered on that one thread, making it the perfect digital lounge.

If you click the link to that thread and read even just the first 10 or 20 pages, you’ll be laughing your head off—and pay close attention to who wrote the very first post after the OP:

Of course, the main roadblock was Michael Lee4. He used to complain about us on other threads regarding that specific discussion. Even if he didn't delete those posts, I really don't have the energy to spend hours digging through archives to prove what he'll just deny anyway—not to mention he called me mentally unstable in a private message.

Then, once Michael Lee4 felt sufficiently empowered by his mod tools, one day the thread just vanished. It disappeared as if it never existed, without any warning or explanation. That was my first real glimpse of his character, which is ultimately the biggest stumbling block and the reason people are calling for a change in leadership.

It wasn't until about a month ago that I received a blunt, baseless explanation via DM: "there's no room for chat on the car boards." I don't buy that for a second. Productive conversations can come from anywhere, including a chat thread.

Anyway, the thread was dumped into the off-topic section—which is a tier below the recycling bin—and predictably fell into oblivion since it was technically part of the automotive PF. I honestly suspect this was a calculated move to make it look like the topic wasn't popular and deserved to die out.

My experience with Michael Lee4 shows someone who can hold a perfectly normal conversation right up until someone presents a solid argument or proves him wrong. Once that happens, the insults start—subtle in a DM, or blatant through deleting posts and handing out warnings. It’s the classic double standard: I call someone an idiot and get a warning, but he calls someone a MORON and gets a pass. And it’s not a one-off thing; it’s chronic, like bronchitis.

That aforementioned game of guessing cars was shut down abruptly and autocratically, without any prior warning. It was bottom-tier moderation. Thank God that out of a dozen or so posts, I managed to nail half of them on other PFs. I've dealt with other moderators before, and their style isn't anywhere near this. I honestly don't know how to describe this level of moderation without resorting to insults or getting a warning myself. Besides, I have no desire to stoop to Michael Lee4's level or give him the satisfaction of handing me a warning or a ban.

I also think a moderator should be able to tell the difference between a new user who’s just struggling to navigate the forum waters and a clone or troll who's specifically here to flame people and cause trouble. The former needs some gentle guidance, not to be immediately met with all guns blazing and handed a ban from the PF.

Real life is serious and difficult enough for all of us; we come here for information and a bit of relaxation and banter. But how are you supposed to relax when you're waiting around wondering if Michael Lee4 is going to jump out from around a corner with a red or yellow card? For God's sake, if this were soccer, fans would have torn him to shreds by halftime...

I know Michael Lee4 will probably start making excuses now through jokes, sarcasm, and provocations—but honestly, his chosen avatar says more about him and his ego than anything else.

I’ll also touch on that Lupo topic and those lukewarm apologies from Michael Lee4 about not being able to make it—look, I don't care if you couldn't make it, but you seem to find time for everything else, and that topic was bumped to the top of the PF for over seven days. Cj7 deserved at least a three-day ban for openly insulting forum members, but he DIDN'T GET ONE. He deserved the topic to be locked, but YOU only did that once the anti-comments reached massive proportions. Honestly, that topic probably would still be at the top right now if you had acted sooner.

I won't call you a shill for certain car brands or a journalist or any of those other nonsense labels, because I know that isn't true. You're simply incapable of being a quality moderator for this PF.

But the fact remains: based on your reactions, it looks like you blindly support one specific brand while refusing to allow any comparisons with other brands regarding design, price, quality, etc., always following up with that weak explanation that "this topic isn't for that." For crying out loud, where are we supposed to discuss it then? On a cooking forum?

This, like any other PF, should be a place where people can't wait to visit to read something new and have a laugh, provided it doesn't cross the line into insults. It shouldn't be a chore to check in.

Michael Lee4—you said yourself that you don't need this moderation in your life and that things would be easier without it, SO WHY DON'T YOU JUST STEP DOWN?

Also, I'm curious why the poll isn't public so we can see how everyone voted.

That's all from me for now. There's a lot on my mind, and maybe it's not perfectly polished, but if I think of anything else, I'll write it down.

Buddy, from everything I remember, YOU were the one we expected to open this topic...

Michael Lee4 said:None... I've never even been banned from a forum. If I actually messed up, I’d get the hint. Nobody ever had to spell out the rules ten times for me to figure out what's allowed and what isn't, or why.

That is just plain wrong!

Look, please just stop with this whole "10x" thing because you haven't done that to me even once...

All you really had to do was cast a vote in the poll and leave it at that. Even if the results ended up being 300 to 1, it wouldn't matter—you could still start making arguments then. But just look at the results we have right now...

@ HB, I set up the poll as anonymous, thinking maybe more people would actually bother to vote if their names weren't attached to it and everything was private.
Maybe that was a total mistake on my part?

Man, I’ve gotta chime in too.

That little snitch, giving me all that attitude—he actually banned me! I need him back just so I can hang him by his tongue.
A quick thought on what was said above: 😂😂😂😂

Honestly, mad respect.
I don't think I could even last two days.
In a week? Half the membership would be stuck in some group chat full of losers, jerks, morons, idiots, and complete nutcases (not literally, obviously, but you get it...). And first off, Djenan would be getting exiled from everything imaginable—life sentence, permanent, unconditional... just gone.

Good grief, if I were even trying to hold myself back, I’d be five times worse.
There isn't a soul in sight who could actually pull this off. We seriously need to clone him and give ten versions of him the exact same authority.

The real issue here—and I say this with all due respect to the community—is that there are just way too many brown-nosers on this forum, honestly... they’ll do just about anything just to get a little extra attention from the admin.....

coppernomad28 said:@ HB, I set up the poll as anonymous, thinking maybe more people would actually bother to vote if their names weren't attached to it and everything was private.
Maybe that was a total mistake on my part?

It wasn't a mistake... In my experience, I've built similar forums before, and just so you know, you can still see exactly who voted for what...

Hey everyone! So, look, I’m really not calling for Mr. Stinger to be replaced as a moderator. He isn't actually all that bad—though in my head, I picture him as this tiny dictator wielding a stick, just thumping away at his desktop while working on some voodoo doll or something... I've been lurking on this site for ages, even if I haven't been super active lately. Honestly, I couldn't care less about the warning cards. What really gets under my skin is how this particular mod goes direct with people he's "disputing" with, you know, during actual debates over issues. Personally, I’m all for bans, handing out warnings, or nuking posts if someone starts throwing insults or trying to tear down someone else's opinion in a totally toxic way. But if someone is just stating their view without being a jerk about it, then what's the point of a mod jumping in and breathing down their neck?

For instance, back in that thread about the VW Polo, I was just laying out my thoughts on the car, and I didn't insult anyone or drop a single curse word. But man, the mod went ahead and deleted some of my posts and swooped down on me like a hawk eyeing a rabbit in a race...

The mod's general excuse was basically, "I know this thread is going off the rails and you're just trolling." But seriously, threads exist specifically for discussion! I wasn't being a troll or anything like that; I was just sharing an opinion. That's why forums even exist in the first place—because we have the internet, which is supposed to be one of those milestones of human technological progress, right? You know, this whole "artificial" modern way humans communicate... Anyway, I'm not saying fire Mr. Stinger, I'm more saying he needs some personal re-socialization regarding how to run a forum, or maybe some "professional training" in specific areas...

I also feel like a mod should only be deleting posts or handing out warnings when a user is actually insulting someone, attacking their character/dignity, or completely hijacking a topic with stuff that has nothing to do with it. I don't see why a mod gets to say, "this is trolling," or "this thread is heading in the wrong direction"... We're here to debate and exchange ideas, aren't we?

A mod has the power here to delete whatever they want and so on, but there should be a clear list of rules, and they should only react based on those specific conditions. Like, if someone starts swearing at someone else's mother... then yeah, the mod should point out exactly what was posted and then hand out the sanctions. But not just using vague nonsense like "this is going in the wrong direction"... If someone writes something offensive or totally irrelevant, then the mod acts. A mod should actually specify *why* someone got sanctioned, maybe by bolding the offending part. Anything else is just the mod acting all high and mighty... and then they act surprised when everyone starts coming for them.

And honestly, I’m not a fan of the derogatory names Mr. Stinger calls certain members of this community. In real life, I wouldn't even give him the chance to talk to me like that because I'd shut him down immediately, but I guess online he gets a pass. And then they wonder why they get roasted so hard...

Casey Hernandez63 said:Man, I’ve gotta chime in too.

That little snitch, giving me all that attitude—he actually banned me! I need him back just so I can hang him by his tongue.
A quick thought on what was said above: 😂😂😂😂

Honestly, mad respect.
I don't think I could even last two days.
In a week? Half the membership would be stuck in some group chat full of losers, jerks, morons, idiots, and complete nutcases (not literally, obviously, but you get it...). And first off, Djenan would be getting exiled from everything imaginable—life sentence, permanent, unconditional... just gone.

Good grief, if I were even trying to hold myself back, I’d be five times worse.
There isn't a soul in sight who could actually pull this off. We seriously need to clone him and give ten versions of him the exact same authority.

So why isn't THAT you by any chance?

coppernomad28 said:@ HB, I set up the poll as anonymous, thinking maybe more people would actually bother to vote if their names weren't attached to it and everything was private.
Maybe that was a total mistake on my part?

Look, an anonymous poll is just begging for "moderator" interference if they decide to target me...

It’s not like it's public, but you can still see who people are voting for and how much seniority they actually have...

Michael Lee4 said:Because before I got here, this place was a disaster—a total mess, just a pile of garbage... and I was brought in to fix it. Look, if I managed to "survive" my first month after nuking three chat threads despite all the heat people gave me, and now those same people are laughing with me instead of at me, that's enough for me. If a "kid" like Giga figured things out at 19, and people twice his age still can't grasp them, there isn't much else I can say... and no, I'm not a perfect user; nobody is.

So, based on your logic, is the entire car PDF just your personal playground because you "cleaned it up"? Three chat threads? Those were the parts people actually wanted; that's why they were popular in the first place...

And you keep repeating phrases like "some things" or "the same things," which is incredibly vague. Honestly, if I were you, I'd start wondering if there's something wrong with how I'm coming across since so many people aren't taking me seriously. Have you ever actually tried being friendly toward someone instead of acting all authoritative and antagonistic?
Just try it once. Trust me, you might actually be surprised by the result....

Dennis Carter9 said:Buddy, from everything I remember, YOU were the one we expected to open this topic...

coppernomad28 beat me to it, but the point remains the same.👍

Eh, I don't really agree with how this poll is set up... I actually voted for "YES—I agree, I just can't deal with Stinger anymore"—which, honestly, isn't even necessary to state... Look, it's not like I'm fundamentally against Stinger if he actually changes up his ways, and even his role as a mod isn't totally out of the question, but... if he doesn't change, then he really ought to be replaced, because otherwise, what's even the point of having this thread?

John Clark6 said:The real issue here—and I say this with all due respect to the community—is that there are just way too many brown-nosers on this forum, honestly... they’ll do just about anything just to get a little extra attention from the admin.....

Exactly!🙏 🙏
Why did I call this place a total rabbit hole earlier?
Because most people here act just like rabbits, while Stinger is just... well, he's doing his thing.😂