Should we let go of our feelings?

bluemason3 said:Most shameful religions don't even bother with a creation myth—they just assume existence is either eternal or completely unknowable.

Look, I wasn't talking about how the universe started, I was talking about why we're actually here.

Are you absolutely sure they're claiming humans were born without any purpose or reason?

rustymaker5 said:And what, you think Bog is some kind of jukebox? Like, you just drop a coin in and eventually it plays whatever tune you wanted... unless the power goes out, I guess? 🤣

So what exactly is "spiritual planning" and what kind of rules are we even talking about here?

Exactly—God is just a giant jukebox meant to grant everyone's wishes. 👍

The real question is whether you're such an idiot that you wish for something stupid—which, let's be honest, happens way more often than people wishing for anything smart.

Joseph Bailey41 said:People say all sorts of things. But this take you have about control is actually a pretty rare perspective. Besides, if we wanted to get into religious fantasies, there's another subforum for that.

What do you mean "niche"?
The whole concept of having to surrender control and your entire self to some higher being who takes over—that’s not rare at all. You see that everywhere, from major mainstream religions to basic shamanism.

neonmarlin39 said:Like what, for example?

Remember when you tried to explain to me that theology isn't about gods and deities? That really stuck with me. 😁I just happened to be well-mannered enough not to laugh in your face.

David Vaughn75 said:Look, I wasn't talking about how the universe started, I was talking about why we're actually here.

Are you absolutely sure they're claiming humans were born without any purpose or reason?

Exactly—God is just a giant jukebox meant to grant everyone's wishes. 👍

The real question is whether you're such an idiot that you wish for something stupid—which, let's be honest, happens way more often than people wishing for anything smart.

What do you mean "niche"?
The whole concept of having to surrender control and your entire self to some higher being who takes over—that’s not rare at all. You see that everywhere, from major mainstream religions to basic shamanism.

Remember when you tried to explain to me that theology isn't about gods and deities? That really stuck with me. 😁I just happened to be well-mannered enough not to laugh in your face.

What are you even talking about? You gotta drop a link because I have zero clue what this is about. It’s way too easy to take things out of context or just totally misread the situation like this.

David Vaughn75 said:Look, I wasn't talking about how the universe started, I was talking about why we're actually here.

Are you absolutely sure they're claiming humans were born without any purpose or reason?

Exactly—God is just a giant jukebox meant to grant everyone's wishes. 👍

The real question is whether you're such an idiot that you wish for something stupid—which, let's be honest, happens way more often than people wishing for anything smart.

What do you mean "niche"?
The whole concept of having to surrender control and your entire self to some higher being who takes over—that’s not rare at all. You see that everywhere, from major mainstream religions to basic shamanism.

Remember when you tried to explain to me that theology isn't about gods and deities? That really stuck with me. 😁I just happened to be well-mannered enough not to laugh in your face.

If there's no Creator and no act of creation, then what defines the purpose of anything beyond its own existence?
Not to mention Buddhism, where there isn't even a soul—just a collection of elements and karmic traces.

The mere possibility of escaping Samsara doesn't necessarily mean that was the intended purpose of creation.

goldenjackal6 said:There goes that massive ego of yours again with the whole "you can't" routine. Honestly, how incredibly arrogant do you have to be to tell someone you don't even know what they can or can't do?

I can, I am, and I damn well will in the future, because I possess these data-input devices known as senses—specifically sight and hearing—which, when paired with my information processor known as the brain, give me the ability to draw logical conclusions from the world around me.

And here’s another incredibly stupid and totally inaccurate mantra. Most of the evil in human history was actually committed by believers acting in the name of their own authority.
Religious groups don't actually help people distinguish right from wrong; they just force their own specific ideological version of what they want you to believe is good or bad.

Yet another piece of nonsense. Religion preaches love and unity exclusively among its own kind, while simultaneously judging and persecuting anyone who thinks differently—which you just practically demonstrated with your next statement:

Look, we all know how to practice believing; it's one of the most primitive cognitive processes in humans, present from birth. Little kids who don't know anything yet definitely know how to believe.

The problem is that a good portion of people, due to their own intellectual shortcomings or emotional baggage, never actually mature. They stay stuck in that primitive way of functioning well into adulthood, and when they run into more mature individuals who don't play along, they think they're somehow special or misunderstood.

It’s honestly hilarious watching believers act like faith is some unsolvable cosmic riddle. Like, man, it’s not that deep—faith is about as complex as breathing. We all know how to believe in something; the only difference is that some of us actually take the time to choose what we're putting our trust in.

Just relax.

First, take a breath. Go back to your own post. Read it again. Analyze the impression you actually left. Then, connect the dots and explain exactly why my post hits just as hard as yours.

Your perception is one thing. Someone else's reality is quite another.

Which religion condemns those who disagree? 🤔

Faith doesn't actually accomplish anything. It is the people that get the work done.

bluemason3 said:Yes.

You can find people like that on both sides.

That's exactly the point.

The way you view faith is just so lifeless, hollow, and purely factual.

The fact that religions are based on claims doesn't bother me.😁

What specifically turned you off from faith?
Science, people, or something else entirely?

Can you write it?

I am a traveler on the road. Constant motion defines my existence. I move through the landscape, observing the asphalt stretching toward the horizon. There is a certain stillness found in the transit itself. It is not about the destination. It is about the rhythm of the journey. says:
For most atheists out there, this just isn't true.

Atheists and theists—though if you ask me, we’re all believers in something—share a certain commonality. Earthly authority sits above all else.
For theists, there is a distinct advantage in being able to relativize and challenge that earthly power through absolute authority.

Atheists (for the most part) lack that recourse.

bluemason3 was once a believer and remains one at heart; he simply swapped faiths. Now he identifies as a positivist, a physicalist, a naturalist, a scientist... some sort of blend of those things.

When you speak of earthly authority, are you referring to the government, the Constitution, or the legal system?

From my perspective, an atheistic way of life appears meaningless, depressing, and aimless. This isn't an insult, just my perception.

James Miller2 said:Just relax.

First, take a breath. Go back to your own post. Read it again. Analyze the impression you actually left. Then, connect the dots and explain exactly why my post hits just as hard as yours.

Your perception is one thing. Someone else's reality is quite another.

Which religion condemns those who disagree? 🤔

Faith doesn't actually accomplish anything. It is the people that get the work done.

What specifically turned you off from faith?
Science, people, or something else entirely?

Can you write it?

I am a traveler on the road. Constant motion defines my existence. I move through the landscape, observing the asphalt stretching toward the horizon. There is a certain stillness found in the transit itself. It is not about the destination. It is about the rhythm of the journey. says:
For most atheists out there, this just isn't true.

Atheists and theists—though if you ask me, we’re all believers in something—share a certain commonality. Earthly authority sits above all else.
For theists, there is a distinct advantage in being able to relativize and challenge that earthly power through absolute authority.

Atheists (for the most part) lack that recourse.

bluemason3 was once a believer and remains one at heart; he simply swapped faiths. Now he identifies as a positivist, a physicalist, a naturalist, a scientist... some sort of blend of those things.

When you speak of earthly authority, are you referring to the government, the Constitution, or the legal system?

From my perspective, an atheistic way of life appears meaningless, depressing, and aimless. This isn't an insult, just my perception.

Don't try to project your emotional meltdown onto me just to justify some cheap ad hominem attack. It’s a low-rent tactic, and frankly, it isn't working.

James Miller2 said:Just relax.

First, take a breath. Go back to your own post. Read it again. Analyze the impression you actually left. Then, connect the dots and explain exactly why my post hits just as hard as yours.

Your perception is one thing. Someone else's reality is quite another.

Which religion condemns those who disagree? 🤔

Faith doesn't actually accomplish anything. It is the people that get the work done.

What specifically turned you off from faith?
Science, people, or something else entirely?

Can you write it?

I am a traveler on the road. Constant motion defines my existence. I move through the landscape, observing the asphalt stretching toward the horizon. There is a certain stillness found in the transit itself. It is not about the destination. It is about the rhythm of the journey. says:
For most atheists out there, this just isn't true.

Atheists and theists—though if you ask me, we’re all believers in something—share a certain commonality. Earthly authority sits above all else.
For theists, there is a distinct advantage in being able to relativize and challenge that earthly power through absolute authority.

Atheists (for the most part) lack that recourse.

bluemason3 was once a believer and remains one at heart; he simply swapped faiths. Now he identifies as a positivist, a physicalist, a naturalist, a scientist... some sort of blend of those things.

When you speak of earthly authority, are you referring to the government, the Constitution, or the legal system?

From my perspective, an atheistic way of life appears meaningless, depressing, and aimless. This isn't an insult, just my perception.

People with actual faith act this way, and honestly, you just proved that point all over again with your own example:

James Miller2 said:Just relax.

First, take a breath. Go back to your own post. Read it again. Analyze the impression you actually left. Then, connect the dots and explain exactly why my post hits just as hard as yours.

Your perception is one thing. Someone else's reality is quite another.

Which religion condemns those who disagree? 🤔

Faith doesn't actually accomplish anything. It is the people that get the work done.

What specifically turned you off from faith?
Science, people, or something else entirely?

Can you write it?

I am a traveler on the road. Constant motion defines my existence. I move through the landscape, observing the asphalt stretching toward the horizon. There is a certain stillness found in the transit itself. It is not about the destination. It is about the rhythm of the journey. says:
For most atheists out there, this just isn't true.

Atheists and theists—though if you ask me, we’re all believers in something—share a certain commonality. Earthly authority sits above all else.
For theists, there is a distinct advantage in being able to relativize and challenge that earthly power through absolute authority.

Atheists (for the most part) lack that recourse.

bluemason3 was once a believer and remains one at heart; he simply swapped faiths. Now he identifies as a positivist, a physicalist, a naturalist, a scientist... some sort of blend of those things.

When you speak of earthly authority, are you referring to the government, the Constitution, or the legal system?

From my perspective, an atheistic way of life appears meaningless, depressing, and aimless. This isn't an insult, just my perception.

It’s all just pointless, depressing, and aimless, right? That's what you think. But seriously, look around. Do you actually see how massive this world is? Look at the sheer scale of society, the endless variety of people, and the infinite amount of opportunities out there. And yet, you honestly believe that billions of lives are just meaningless, depressed, and directionless simply because they don't subscribe to your weird, hyper-fixated belief in something that doesn't even exist? Give me a break.

I honestly can't even wrap my head around how arrogant and hypocritical you are. Seriously, you’re just a straight-up terrible, fundamentally rotten person.

rustymaker5 said:But how can you possibly claim that this urge to manage things and grab control is the sole reason we even exist in this physical realm? 🤔
What if that’s just one facet of how God exists? I mean, if God is truly absolute—existing within everything and containing everything—then man’s individual desires would have to hang on nothing at all unless they were fundamentally part of God's plan. Unless, of course, you're operating under the assumption that humans are somehow separate or detached from God...?😲

There is no such thing as human desire being outside of the divine plan. Period. Nothing exists outside of it. The whole point is that all conscious beings possess the power to create. And they do! The only real difference is how aware they are of that power and the massive Consequences of Creation.
Nowadays, most people are just creating a day dictated by their own karma and their past baggage. But it doesn't have to be that way. 🙂

goldenjackal6 said:Don't try to project your emotional meltdown onto me just to justify some cheap ad hominem attack. It’s a low-rent tactic, and frankly, it isn't working.

People with actual faith act this way, and honestly, you just proved that point all over again with your own example:

It’s all just pointless, depressing, and aimless, right? That's what you think. But seriously, look around. Do you actually see how massive this world is? Look at the sheer scale of society, the endless variety of people, and the infinite amount of opportunities out there. And yet, you honestly believe that billions of lives are just meaningless, depressed, and directionless simply because they don't subscribe to your weird, hyper-fixated belief in something that doesn't even exist? Give me a break.

I honestly can't even wrap my head around how arrogant and hypocritical you are. Seriously, you’re just a straight-up terrible, fundamentally rotten person.

If I were feeling emotionally charged, I would probably dive headfirst into your correspondence with total intensity.
If you intend to continue provoking me in this manner, expect nothing but silence. I will simply ignore you. There won't be any further depth to my response.

The way I see your argument is that, as a believer, I shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion of my own.
I shared my honest thoughts on the atheistic worldview. That doesn't mean I harbor any hatred toward you all.
Some atheists are out there writing things about us believers that are even worse than usual. It’s relentless. Yet, I don't recall any single believer—aside from perhaps myself—ever actually inviting that kind of vitriol.

Being a believer doesn't mean I have to sit there and take insults from others. It certainly doesn't mean I have to tolerate any kind of psychological abuse. There is no requirement in my faith to accept being mistreated.

Thanks for the "compliments."
My advice is simple. You need to heal yourself first. Fix your own wounds and tend to that broken soul of yours that's screaming for help. Only once you've done that should you even attempt to communicate with the rest of the world.
If you don't change your mindset, you'll just keep running into nothing but trouble. You’ll end up attracting all sorts of toxic people and messy situations. It happens.

James Miller2 said:If I were feeling emotionally charged, I would probably dive headfirst into your correspondence with total intensity.
If you intend to continue provoking me in this manner, expect nothing but silence. I will simply ignore you. There won't be any further depth to my response.

The way I see your argument is that, as a believer, I shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion of my own.
I shared my honest thoughts on the atheistic worldview. That doesn't mean I harbor any hatred toward you all.
Some atheists are out there writing things about us believers that are even worse than usual. It’s relentless. Yet, I don't recall any single believer—aside from perhaps myself—ever actually inviting that kind of vitriol.

Being a believer doesn't mean I have to sit there and take insults from others. It certainly doesn't mean I have to tolerate any kind of psychological abuse. There is no requirement in my faith to accept being mistreated.

Thanks for the "compliments."
My advice is simple. You need to heal yourself first. Fix your own wounds and tend to that broken soul of yours that's screaming for help. Only once you've done that should you even attempt to communicate with the rest of the world.
If you don't change your mindset, you'll just keep running into nothing but trouble. You’ll end up attracting all sorts of toxic people and messy situations. It happens.

Wait, I'm the one who needs "healing"? You're out here judging people you don't even know based on a single label like "atheism," acting like their lives are just meaningless, aimless, and depressing.

It's pretty obvious you've got a massive grudge against atheists; otherwise, you wouldn't be carrying around these kinds of biases.

David Vaughn75 said:Evagrius Ponticus basically argued that knowing God isn't some emotional high. He claimed that visions, voices, and all those religious "feelings" are actually just distractions from true realization. When people mistake an emotional rush for actual spiritual truth, they end up totally losing the rhythm of their inner life.

What's your take on this?

If emotions are like a river—this wild current just tossing us around left and right without any say in the matter—does that mean we aren't even in control of ourselves?
Maybe the whole point is supposed to be surrendering to God and relying solely on Him... but is that union with God meant to be quiet contemplation, a state of Nirvana, total nothingness, or just a massive explosion of feeling?

Look, your thread title makes zero sense, and honestly, it's not even the first time, so I'm left with two possible conclusions here:

- You're misinterpreting things.

- You're just messing around on this forum.

There is no such thing as "clearing away emotions." A human being is an emotional Bice by nature.

What exists are proper interpretations, assimilations, and transformations of emotion—where the feelings don't run the show, but rather the person feeling them does.

bluemason3 said:If there's no Creator and no act of creation, then what defines the purpose of anything beyond its own existence?
Not to mention Buddhism, where there isn't even a soul—just a collection of elements and karmic traces.

The mere possibility of escaping Samsara doesn't necessarily mean that was the intended purpose of creation.

logos, Tao, Brahman

David Vaughn75 said:logos, Tao, Brahman

You don't find that concept in Buddhism. I doubt you'll find it in other Shramana traditions either—though some might claim otherwise. Even those with an idea of essence, like the Jains, seem to focus on individualizing it rather than connecting it to a universal like Brahman.

Quote: around the forum

hollowpuma762 says: Your thread title is total nonsense—and honestly, it’s not even the first time you've pulled this—so I'm looking at two possible conclusions here: - You're just bad at judging things - You're just Operiras

How can a question be "nonsense"? I didn't even include any kind of judgment in the title

Quote:Bice.

There's no such thing as "clearing away emotions." Being emotional is part of being human, it's

That’s exactly why—because we're emotional—we actually have the potential to become the complete opposite.

goldenjackal6 said:Wait, I'm the one who needs "healing"? You're out here judging people you don't even know based on a single label like "atheism," acting like their lives are just meaningless, aimless, and depressing.

It's pretty obvious you've got a massive grudge against atheists; otherwise, you wouldn't be carrying around these kinds of biases.

Yes, to heal. 👍

You probably have your own set of prejudices about how my life should look or who I should be. I don't hold it against you.

Boldano—yeah, I hate you enough to actually give you some advice on what to do next. 🤣
You clearly have no idea what hatred actually is. Goodbye.

James Miller2 said:Just relax.

First, take a breath. Go back to your own post. Read it again. Analyze the impression you actually left. Then, connect the dots and explain exactly why my post hits just as hard as yours.

Your perception is one thing. Someone else's reality is quite another.

Which religion condemns those who disagree? 🤔

Faith doesn't actually accomplish anything. It is the people that get the work done.

What specifically turned you off from faith?
Science, people, or something else entirely?

Can you write it?

I am a traveler on the road. Constant motion defines my existence. I move through the landscape, observing the asphalt stretching toward the horizon. There is a certain stillness found in the transit itself. It is not about the destination. It is about the rhythm of the journey. says:
For most atheists out there, this just isn't true.

Atheists and theists—though if you ask me, we’re all believers in something—share a certain commonality. Earthly authority sits above all else.
For theists, there is a distinct advantage in being able to relativize and challenge that earthly power through absolute authority.

Atheists (for the most part) lack that recourse.

bluemason3 was once a believer and remains one at heart; he simply swapped faiths. Now he identifies as a positivist, a physicalist, a naturalist, a scientist... some sort of blend of those things.

When you speak of earthly authority, are you referring to the government, the Constitution, or the legal system?

From my perspective, an atheistic way of life appears meaningless, depressing, and aimless. This isn't an insult, just my perception.

It’s irrelevant to the discussion, and I have no interest in derailing the topic with useless tangents.

There’s also this excessive obsession with personal anecdotes—everything from seminar testimonies to "proof" of miracles or canonization processes. It's a hallmark of indoctrination propaganda and a major flaw in logical argumentation. You see the same thing with other religions, obviously.

That happens because

1) stories (like personal testimonies), whether they are individual accounts or myths, capture the imagination and emotion more easily. They bypass critical, rational analysis, making them perfect tools for indoctrination or maintaining belief, but they are useless when trying to grasp factual reality. Only logic and data matter here, and even then, an individual is far too small a sample size for any meaningful sociological or psychological analysis.

2) at the level of individual data ("evidence" or "miracles" involving saints and canonizations), without a proper sample size and analytical framework, it’s just a pseudo-scientific attempt to create an illusion of objective proof for people who don't quite grasp how the scientific method works.

James Miller2 said:Yes, to heal. 👍

You probably have your own set of prejudices about how my life should look or who I should be. I don't hold it against you.

Boldano—yeah, I hate you enough to actually give you some advice on what to do next. 🤣
You clearly have no idea what hatred actually is. Goodbye.

I might have biases, but I don't let them run my life because I’m not some self-righteous zealot.

James Miller2 said:Yes, to heal. 👍

You probably have your own set of prejudices about how my life should look or who I should be. I don't hold it against you.

Boldano—yeah, I hate you enough to actually give you some advice on what to do next. 🤣
You clearly have no idea what hatred actually is. Goodbye.

"Go get treated" is such top-tier advice, isn't it? Totally hasn't been used as a massive insult since the dawn of time, right?

James Miller2 said:Yes, to heal. 👍

You probably have your own set of prejudices about how my life should look or who I should be. I don't hold it against you.

Boldano—yeah, I hate you enough to actually give you some advice on what to do next. 🤣
You clearly have no idea what hatred actually is. Goodbye.

Maybe I don't know how it works in practice since I don't feel hatred myself, but I can spot it in other people from a mile away.

Dismissing people as worthless or empty just because you don't get them—simply because they don't share your narrow-minded delusions—is a textbook example of arrogance and xenophobia. It's a huge red flag that something is fundamentally broken with you. No one with a shred of common sense would reach the conclusions you're drawing.

When was the last time you actually had sex?

Maria Parker77 said:There is no such thing as human desire being outside of the divine plan. Period. Nothing exists outside of it. The whole point is that all conscious beings possess the power to create. And they do! The only real difference is how aware they are of that power and the massive Consequences of Creation.
Nowadays, most people are just creating a day dictated by their own karma and their past baggage. But it doesn't have to be that way. 🙂

Exactly. But that carries this massive weight of responsibility to actually shape your own existence, and honestly, most people just aren't ready to face that kind of reality. It’s much easier to just drift along and let someone else take the wheel, because then when things fall apart, you can just blame them instead of looking in the mirror... It's a kind of spiritual laziness that lets people play the victim role forever without ever having to grow.
And when you deny that creative force within yourself—when you hand over your agency to other people who claim to hold that same spiritual authority—well, unfortunately, that’s exactly what drives this world toward deeper division and inequality. It’s completely futile to sit around waiting for some higher power to swoop in and save us, because that power is already baked into all of us; it’s just a matter of when we finally wake up and decide how to wield it...
The planned game keeps rolling on, stretching out into eternity. 😍

bluemason3 said:You don't find that concept in Buddhism. I doubt you'll find it in other Shramana traditions either—though some might claim otherwise. Even those with an idea of essence, like the Jains, seem to focus on individualizing it rather than connecting it to a universal like Brahman.

Look, Buddhism isn't really a religion in the way most people think; it's more like a philosophy that’s cool with whatever local religions the people who adopt it happen to practice. All those different faiths usually have their own ways of explaining how and why nature works the way it does.

As for Jainism? Beats me. I don't know the first thing about it.

rustymaker5 said:Exactly. But that carries this massive weight of responsibility to actually shape your own existence, and honestly, most people just aren't ready to face that kind of reality. It’s much easier to just drift along and let someone else take the wheel, because then when things fall apart, you can just blame them instead of looking in the mirror... It's a kind of spiritual laziness that lets people play the victim role forever without ever having to grow.
And when you deny that creative force within yourself—when you hand over your agency to other people who claim to hold that same spiritual authority—well, unfortunately, that’s exactly what drives this world toward deeper division and inequality. It’s completely futile to sit around waiting for some higher power to swoop in and save us, because that power is already baked into all of us; it’s just a matter of when we finally wake up and decide how to wield it...
The planned game keeps rolling on, stretching out into eternity. 😍

If this whole thing is a game—and it totally is—then we’ve already been saved. 😍

That "higher power" isn't some distant thing out there in the clouds; it's us, right here, right now.

Responsibility = spirituality. 👍

Being yourself is just easier. 😁

bluemason3 said:It’s irrelevant to the discussion, and I have no interest in derailing the topic with useless tangents.

There’s also this excessive obsession with personal anecdotes—everything from seminar testimonies to "proof" of miracles or canonization processes. It's a hallmark of indoctrination propaganda and a major flaw in logical argumentation. You see the same thing with other religions, obviously.

That happens because

1) stories (like personal testimonies), whether they are individual accounts or myths, capture the imagination and emotion more easily. They bypass critical, rational analysis, making them perfect tools for indoctrination or maintaining belief, but they are useless when trying to grasp factual reality. Only logic and data matter here, and even then, an individual is far too small a sample size for any meaningful sociological or psychological analysis.

2) at the level of individual data ("evidence" or "miracles" involving saints and canonizations), without a proper sample size and analytical framework, it’s just a pseudo-scientific attempt to create an illusion of objective proof for people who don't quite grasp how the scientific method works.

I believe those personal testimonies aren't bad since they encourage people to change.
Human beings rarely change (unless something is life-threatening).
And improving one's life is necessary for health and survival.

How would you explain it if, for example, a doctor told someone they had an incurable disease, and then that disease vanished after prayer and fasting?
You cannot simply dismiss that as fantasy or positive thinking.

There are specific conditions and miracles required for shrines; I am not particularly familiar with them, so I cannot comment.

David Vaughn75 said:Look, I wasn't talking about how the universe started, I was talking about why we're actually here.

Are you absolutely sure they're claiming humans were born without any purpose or reason?

Exactly—God is just a giant jukebox meant to grant everyone's wishes. 👍

The real question is whether you're such an idiot that you wish for something stupid—which, let's be honest, happens way more often than people wishing for anything smart.

What do you mean "niche"?
The whole concept of having to surrender control and your entire self to some higher being who takes over—that’s not rare at all. You see that everywhere, from major mainstream religions to basic shamanism.

Remember when you tried to explain to me that theology isn't about gods and deities? That really stuck with me. 😁I just happened to be well-mannered enough not to laugh in your face.

That’s exactly why I think your perspective is pretty unconventional. Look, you’re more than entitled to your own view, but if you want to present it as an objective fact—to actually convince someone else—you'll need to bring more to the table than just citing statistics on how many people claim a religion.