Spanking and physical discipline: what are your thoughts?

Donna White50 said:So many people view life through this black-and-white lens. And honestly, so many people struggle with perfectionism nowadays, especially in that toxic way... You can't exactly tell people they aren't allowed to have kids if that's what they want.

But look, physical discipline should never be the norm or an accepted way to raise a child. Why? Because we have to realize that causing pain isn't a humane way to treat any living thing, much less a kid.
That doesn't mean it should be totally banned as a tool, though. Think about it—like giving a quick tap on the hand; it doesn't hurt much, but it sends a crystal-clear message: "Don't touch that, it's dangerous." Kids pick up on those cues naturally. It’s a completely different story when you're intentionally trying to cause pain just to scare a kid into submission. In those cases, there's no point to it; it doesn't teach anything except how much it hurts. It’s like beating a dog for jumping a fence—it won't understand the lesson. But if you say "no" and give a firm correction when they're being stubborn, you're just correcting behavior. It's the same with kids—it's not about the discipline itself, it's about the context. I don't really care how anyone else interprets this... I'd only use it sparingly if nothing else works, and since my little one is still tiny, there's zero need for it right now. I'll also be the first one to call out anyone who hits a child just to inflict pain—whether it's out of frustration or just plain old cruelty. And man, it really gets to me when I hear a parent calling their kid a jerk or an idiot...

Those two ideas just don't mesh, you know? If you "lightly" tap a kid's fingers with a switch, you're still causing pain. 🤦

(P.S. And just so you know, that's actually illegal too)

Besides, what kind of "standard parenting methods" are we talking about here? It sounds like you might not be aware of many, if you actually think using a switch is an acceptable way to discipline...

To help a child truly understand why they shouldn't stick their fingers in an outlet—what could happen, how, and why—you need massive amounts of patience, lots of explaining, some role-playing, improvisation, and ultimately, play. Hitting doesn't teach anything except how to be afraid of your parents.

Edit — here you go:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...t-and-violence

http://www.cnn.com/parenting...boundaries-4.html

I have a question regarding the second part of this thread's title. I’m increasingly finding myself witnessing children screaming for absolutely no reason. Is it a parenting issue? I recently read about a restaurant owner in Australia who actually boosted their revenue by banning parents with screaming kids. It sounds crazy, but it works. Kids just didn't scream like this back in the day. That used to be a core part of how we were raised—learning not to disturb others. Is this just a "trend" now? Is it the influence of movies where kids are constantly screaming too? Or are these children simply being neglected and frustrated without anyone noticing?

electricnomad8 said:I have a question regarding the second part of this thread's title. I’m increasingly finding myself witnessing children screaming for absolutely no reason. Is it a parenting issue? I recently read about a restaurant owner in Australia who actually boosted their revenue by banning parents with screaming kids. It sounds crazy, but it works. Kids just didn't scream like this back in the day. That used to be a core part of how we were raised—learning not to disturb others. Is this just a "trend" now? Is it the influence of movies where kids are constantly screaming too? Or are these children simply being neglected and frustrated without anyone noticing?

It seems pretty likely, honestly.
I guess it’s just way easier for parents to either 1) hand them a smartphone and just tune them out, or 2) resort to physical punishment instead of actually putting in the extra work required for real parenting.
And then we end up reading all these other threads about people who have become subtly toxic—you know, those folks who lack any self-esteem so you can basically walk all over them once their spirit is broken, or stories about actual abusers. If you go the route of being too soft, you might risk raising someone who lacks confidence, but if you go the "wild" route, you're steering them toward becoming abusers themselves. It’s basically the archetypes of the writers and main characters we see populating these forums. Personally, I wouldn't mess around with corporal punishment because of that risk.
Besides, I probably won't be around to witness the long-term consequences that kind of discipline leaves on a child; it’ll more likely be their future partner who sees the fallout.

I mean, what are we even talking about here? Scientists are discovering such fascinating things about the brain every single day, and I really think it matters—even down to the little bedtime stories you read to them, how you read them, and whether you read to them at all. Every tiny detail during those early years shapes their emotional intelligence, which eventually helps them navigate life without all that unnecessary chaos.

@Donna White50 - children don't exactly perceive being hit as something "pleasant or natural." I guess that pretty much contradicts your whole philosophy on why kids should be disciplined physically. By your own logic, they would have to accept it as something "ugly and unnatural" just to learn that's what happens when they mess up.
Don't you see that you don't even quite grasp what I'm trying to promote? So, why jump into a debate with people who have made this field their life's calling and have discovered just how harmful corporal punishment can be? That was a rhetorical question, so please, don't bother answering.

George Davis6 said:Those two ideas just don't mesh, you know? If you "lightly" tap a kid's fingers with a switch, you're still causing pain. 🤦

(P.S. And just so you know, that's actually illegal too)

Besides, what kind of "standard parenting methods" are we talking about here? It sounds like you might not be aware of many, if you actually think using a switch is an acceptable way to discipline...

To help a child truly understand why they shouldn't stick their fingers in an outlet—what could happen, how, and why—you need massive amounts of patience, lots of explaining, some role-playing, improvisation, and ultimately, play. Hitting doesn't teach anything except how to be afraid of your parents.

Edit — here you go:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...t-and-violence

http://www.cnn.com/parenting...boundaries-4.html

You're also causing a kid pain when you don't buy them that toy they want, or when you force them to go to school when they really don't feel like it, or when you drop them off at daycare and they have separation anxiety and just won't stop crying. Emotional pain is still pain, yet it's totally tolerated in our society. I honestly don't get how a parent is supposed to raise a child without some level of discomfort that forces them to accept things, change, and adapt. Personally, I find mild physical discipline to be a perfectly fine parenting tool. And I'd love to see the agency that would try to take my kid away just because I gave their fingers a little tap after they kept doing something they weren't supposed to, despite all my warnings and explanations. I'd also love to see the study that proves this kind of thing leaves lasting psychological trauma on a child...

Scott Cox56 said:It seems pretty likely, honestly.
I guess it’s just way easier for parents to either 1) hand them a smartphone and just tune them out, or 2) resort to physical punishment instead of actually putting in the extra work required for real parenting.
And then we end up reading all these other threads about people who have become subtly toxic—you know, those folks who lack any self-esteem so you can basically walk all over them once their spirit is broken, or stories about actual abusers. If you go the route of being too soft, you might risk raising someone who lacks confidence, but if you go the "wild" route, you're steering them toward becoming abusers themselves. It’s basically the archetypes of the writers and main characters we see populating these forums. Personally, I wouldn't mess around with corporal punishment because of that risk.
Besides, I probably won't be around to witness the long-term consequences that kind of discipline leaves on a child; it’ll more likely be their future partner who sees the fallout.

I mean, what are we even talking about here? Scientists are discovering such fascinating things about the brain every single day, and I really think it matters—even down to the little bedtime stories you read to them, how you read them, and whether you read to them at all. Every tiny detail during those early years shapes their emotional intelligence, which eventually helps them navigate life without all that unnecessary chaos.

@Donna White50 - children don't exactly perceive being hit as something "pleasant or natural." I guess that pretty much contradicts your whole philosophy on why kids should be disciplined physically. By your own logic, they would have to accept it as something "ugly and unnatural" just to learn that's what happens when they mess up.
Don't you see that you don't even quite grasp what I'm trying to promote? So, why jump into a debate with people who have made this field their life's calling and have discovered just how harmful corporal punishment can be? That was a rhetorical question, so please, don't bother answering.

The whole point of people pushing this style of parenting is just to chase professional careers and make a buck writing books. Their goal is to push parents out of the driver's seat in raising their own kids, shifting that responsibility over to daycares, preschools, and public schools so they can pump their own ideologies into children. And guess who pays for those schools and daycares? Parents, working themselves to the bone just to cover the costs, which ends up stealing precious time away from their kids. When a parent is stretched thin like that, they don't have time to work on themselves or focus on their relationship, so the family unit starts falling apart—which hurts the kids, while society profits off people who are forced into working two jobs just to afford two apartments, two car payments, rent, and child support... it's just an endless cycle.
That’s pretty much the fallout of modern society and today's approach to parenting. There's this massive pressure put on parents through all these empty buzzwords about "proper upbringing"—it’s easy for others to judge and act like you're a bad parent—making actual parenting feel like an impossible mission.
The reality is, your average American parent with a standard job and typical responsibilities just doesn't have the bandwidth to raise kids according to what's considered "acceptable" or "child-friendly" these days. Even professionals struggle with it, especially when dealing with hyperactive kids, let alone kids with special needs and everything else...

I honestly think we've all been brainwashed to the point where we can't see the forest for the trees anymore. Just look around and it'll click. I don't think most parents today are just inherently bad people who want to hand their kids a TV or an iPad instead of parenting... it's more that they simply don't have a choice. They have zero time because they have to work to keep the household running. Sure, there are lazy parents—there always have been—but you gotta wonder why, despite all the books and manuals out there, we haven't seen any real progress in parenting quality, while spanking is now viewed as this horrible thing...

My oldest (2.5 years old) keeps pushing his little sister (1 year old)—and honestly, "a few times" is an understatement, he’s constantly picking on her out of pure jealousy, and she’s actually ended up with a split lip a couple of times. When she really caught it this time, I totally lost it—I snapped at him right in his face and screamed. I just hit my breaking point with the constant bickering and the two of them teaming up against my sanity, plus seeing the blood genuinely terrified me.
The thing is, he hasn't stopped pushing her, but now he’s added aggressive screaming and getting in people's faces whenever he doesn't get his way. He picked up on my outburst immediately, which honestly stressed me out even more and really gave me something to chew on.

He’s a sensitive kid, though, and I can tell my reaction really shook him. I think physical discipline is super counterproductive, but I get where those impulses come from. Still, kids shouldn't have to be the punching bags for our own lapses in judgment.

Donna White50 said:I guess outlet covers are one way to look at it, since they basically take away the danger caused by a kid just being curious or parents being distracted. It’s kind of like using those baby gates to keep them in one room and stuff like that. Personally, though, I’m usually not big on those kinds of fixes—I’d rather go with a firm hand...

I don't really buy into the idea that we should be frantically padding and baby-proofing every single thing just because a kid is running wild, grabbing and tossing everything in sight. A lot of parents do this—they just let the kid run the show, which honestly makes zero sense if you think about it. And even worse are the ones who basically try to buy peace and quiet with bribes—letting them sit in front of the TV all day or showering them with toys and all the latest gadgets just to keep them happy. It feels like a massive parenting fail where the old-school discipline—which wasn't always perfect, sure—has been replaced by people just being unable to actually raise their kids...

I read this entire thread from start to finish, and honestly, I’m asking you—do us all a favor: stop being such a prick, find a deep hole to crawl into, and stay there. There isn't a polite way to tell you that you're a complete jerk.

I can give you my address, so why don't you swing by? Let's see how much of a tough guy you actually are when you have to go toe-to-toe with a guy over 220 pounds. We'll see if you're really the big man you think you are when it comes to hitting kids.

Look, I was getting beaten regularly when I was just a kid. I eventually let it go because I honestly can’t carry that kind of weight around anymore. But deep down? I have nothing but pure contempt for anyone who thinks they have the right to lay a hand on someone weaker—especially kids. Your bullshit really hit a nerve, though. It pissed me off.

Mark Martin10 said:I read this entire thread from start to finish, and honestly, I’m asking you—do us all a favor: stop being such a prick, find a deep hole to crawl into, and stay there. There isn't a polite way to tell you that you're a complete jerk.

I can give you my address, so why don't you swing by? Let's see how much of a tough guy you actually are when you have to go toe-to-toe with a guy over 220 pounds. We'll see if you're really the big man you think you are when it comes to hitting kids.

Look, I was getting beaten regularly when I was just a kid. I eventually let it go because I honestly can’t carry that kind of weight around anymore. But deep down? I have nothing but pure contempt for anyone who thinks they have the right to lay a hand on someone weaker—especially kids. Your bullshit really hit a nerve, though. It pissed me off.

🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

Man, 😍😍

Donna White50 said:You're also causing a kid pain when you don't buy them that toy they want, or when you force them to go to school when they really don't feel like it, or when you drop them off at daycare and they have separation anxiety and just won't stop crying. Emotional pain is still pain, yet it's totally tolerated in our society. I honestly don't get how a parent is supposed to raise a child without some level of discomfort that forces them to accept things, change, and adapt. Personally, I find mild physical discipline to be a perfectly fine parenting tool. And I'd love to see the agency that would try to take my kid away just because I gave their fingers a little tap after they kept doing something they weren't supposed to, despite all my warnings and explanations. I'd also love to see the study that proves this kind of thing leaves lasting psychological trauma on a child...

I actually included the link in my previous post! But honestly, it seems like you—being the one who started this whole thread (let's call it what it is: a little bit of sadomasochism from someone who clearly enjoys inflicting pain)—only bother reading things that fit your own narrative.

George Davis6 said:I actually included the link in my previous post! But honestly, it seems like you—being the one who started this whole thread (let's call it what it is: a little bit of sadomasochism from someone who clearly enjoys inflicting pain)—only bother reading things that fit your own narrative.

No, I'm ignoring you because you're aggressive. You lost any right to a fair debate from your very first post.

I stopped replying because I reached a dead end.

It’s impossible to justify that kind of "discipline" because people can't tell when it's appropriate and when it isn't. Just like they can't tell the difference between parenting and straight-up abuse. There's no point in arguing anymore. 😬

@Kenneth Barnes4 - It’s honestly pretty strange how you were always so eager to lecture us regardless of whether we agreed with you, yet somehow you just decided to walk away right when things started getting a little uncomfortable and the tough questions popped up. Hmm.

Life really is just full of these bizarre little coincidences, isn't it? 🕺

Scott Cox56 said:@Kenneth Barnes4 - Are you seriously suggesting we should try to explain things to a kid beforehand while adding a nice little slap to ensure they don't wander into traffic? Or maybe wait until after the police return their child? Sorry, but I’m honestly laughing while typing this because I can’t imagine you’re being serious.
If the whole idea is that 'bad actions lead to bad consequences' and the consequence is just a smack, then that child isn't going to learn anything about why the action was wrong in the first place. A kid who learns not to run toward cars just because they'll get hit doesn't actually understand anything about car safety; they just learn to be afraid of getting slapped. It feels like such a way to stunt a child's development. And honestly, I won't even get into how humiliating a physical strike can be; I'm just looking at the philosophy behind that kind of parenting.

We've only seen one specific example from a video here with certain people involved. It would be pretty ridiculous to take those conclusions and apply them to all of life as a universal rule, especially when it means ignoring actual scientific progress. I have plenty of examples from my own childhood that suggest the exact opposite. I think a capable parent—provided they aren't completely out of their mind—can explain perfectly well why something is right or wrong, and kids eventually figure out what 'harmless hitting' really means as they grow up. I know I did; I was a calm, bright kid, and I interpreted it as 'that thing you do to others when you've run out of options and can't explain yourself any other way.' So, naturally, that's what I ended up doing to other kids.
I was a good, quiet, loved kid from a great family, yet I was basically conditioned to fight only when I was forced to defend myself (never to strike first). All of that didn't matter because what my parents taught me through their actions was something entirely different; everything else was just empty words.

You haven't answered a single one of the questions posed by Carl Kelly2, so why is that?
All of these are high-stakes, dangerous situations, not trivial ones. How exactly did you learn not to sit on a windowsill?
Judging by the video, children are mostly quite stubborn little beings to whom you can barely explain anything, so I’m really curious to hear some of the questions from our colleague or even my own?

Kenneth Barnes4 said:No, I'm ignoring you because you're aggressive. You lost any right to a fair debate from your very first post.

I stopped replying because I reached a dead end.

It’s impossible to justify that kind of "discipline" because people can't tell when it's appropriate and when it isn't. Just like they can't tell the difference between parenting and straight-up abuse. There's no point in arguing anymore. 😬

Oh man, what am I supposed to do now? 🥱🥱

Kenneth Barnes4 said:No, I'm ignoring you because you're aggressive. You lost any right to a fair debate from your very first post.

I stopped replying because I reached a dead end.

It’s impossible to justify that kind of "discipline" because people can't tell when it's appropriate and when it isn't. Just like they can't tell the difference between parenting and straight-up abuse. There's no point in arguing anymore. 😬

But the definition of "upbringing" has already been laid out right here—and let me be super clear—it does NOT involve physical punishment, in ANY form whatsoever!

And yeah, there’s nothing left to debate since corporal punishment is actually illegal under US law. 😁

Scott Cox56 said:@Kenneth Barnes4 - It’s honestly pretty strange how you were always so eager to lecture us regardless of whether we agreed with you, yet somehow you just decided to walk away right when things started getting a little uncomfortable and the tough questions popped up. Hmm.

Life really is just full of these bizarre little coincidences, isn't it? 🕺

It's all about what a kid grows up around. Cleaning supplies don't smell like food. A kid isn't going to shove crap in their mouth. Why? Because it doesn't smell right.

My brother tried jumping from the garage to a tree when he was little, fell, and broke his arm. 😬

I answered questions while they actually made sense. I'm done repeating myself. Not worth the effort anymore.

Kenneth Barnes4 said:It's all about what a kid grows up around. Cleaning supplies don't smell like food. A kid isn't going to shove crap in their mouth. Why? Because it doesn't smell right.

My brother tried jumping from the garage to a tree when he was little, fell, and broke his arm. 😬

I answered questions while they actually made sense. I'm done repeating myself. Not worth the effort anymore.

Windows don't really have a scent, and I feel like I've often come across kids who probably should have been kept away from the window or at least prevented from stacking stuff up to climb on it just to get a better view. They don't quite grasp that while they're "just looking," they could accidentally fall. I can still vividly remember my own sister's little adventures near the window when we lived on the fifth floor.

Not that it matters much. I'm just saying.
It was one of those things we couldn't quite wrap our heads around regarding why it was so dangerous, but we eventually figured it out, despite how much people push the idea that the average kid is basically unteachable unless you use physical discipline.

Good grief... there's nothing to this window...

Exactly. When you see him trying to climb out a window or over a balcony, you tell him it's dangerous. You say NO, and maybe give him a little smack on the butt.

The window doesn't smell like anything....

As far as I'm concerned, we can kljucati this thread. PLEASE. 😬

Oh, you don't necessarily have to see it right away, genius! It’ll just happen again! I mean, that’s kind of the whole point, isn't it?

All those saints 😢
Even my keyboard seems to have figured it out by now.

Kenneth Barnes4 said:Good grief... there's nothing to this window...

Exactly. When you see him trying to climb out a window or over a balcony, you tell him it's dangerous. You say NO, and maybe give him a little smack on the butt.

The window doesn't smell like anything....

As far as I'm concerned, we can kljucati this thread. PLEASE. 😬

I guess I'm just glad you've finally stopped pretending this was some big negotiation or an attempt at explaining things. Not just jumping straight to the physical part! I suppose that's just how they raised you, right? 👍

Feel free to keep kljucati if you want. Honestly, there's been enough embarrassment regarding logic and opinions already.

Based on that theory, at what age does hitting a kid on the butt or flicking their fingers actually start working?

Because mine don't get anything—they’re basically just 2 and 5 pounds of pure chaos right now. I could literally smack them 300 times a day and they’d still just keep charging at the outlets, the windows, or their own noses. Honestly, they just laugh in my face while they're tossing a hair dryer into a seashell or kicking things across the floor. Judging by their reaction, they've already got enough drama going on; just moving them away from the "crime scene" is enough work. I don't think a slap on the butt would change a damn thing. Realistically, they wouldn't even feel it through a diaper unless I kicked them hard enough to send them flying a yard away—hahaha, sorry, my dark humor is showing. Just kidding, but seriously, physical punishment makes zero sense to me.

With the older one, there’s a tiny bit of progress—that constant loop of "no, no, can't do that, that's dangerous." There really comes a moment where he realizes I’m being consistent for once and that things aren't going to go his way. I can be lenient with some stuff—sometimes I'll let him scream his head off before I give in—but eventually, being persistent helps knock some sense into him, so I'm staying optimistic about the future. He also picks up on my tone when I decide I'm not going to dress him too fast or argue with him. Most days are still a tug-of-war, though—he's still little. But I guarantee you, no amount of hitting is going to teach him anything. To actually work, it would have to hurt, and if it hurts that much, it's just causing internal damage. To him, a swat on the butt means nothing; he’ll keep doing whatever he wants until I physically stop him, because his fixations are stronger than anything else. Well, except maybe my 110 lbs of pure fury, muahaha.

Ashley Bailey75 said:Based on that theory, at what age does hitting a kid on the butt or flicking their fingers actually start working?

Because mine don't get anything—they’re basically just 2 and 5 pounds of pure chaos right now. I could literally smack them 300 times a day and they’d still just keep charging at the outlets, the windows, or their own noses. Honestly, they just laugh in my face while they're tossing a hair dryer into a seashell or kicking things across the floor. Judging by their reaction, they've already got enough drama going on; just moving them away from the "crime scene" is enough work. I don't think a slap on the butt would change a damn thing. Realistically, they wouldn't even feel it through a diaper unless I kicked them hard enough to send them flying a yard away—hahaha, sorry, my dark humor is showing. Just kidding, but seriously, physical punishment makes zero sense to me.

With the older one, there’s a tiny bit of progress—that constant loop of "no, no, can't do that, that's dangerous." There really comes a moment where he realizes I’m being consistent for once and that things aren't going to go his way. I can be lenient with some stuff—sometimes I'll let him scream his head off before I give in—but eventually, being persistent helps knock some sense into him, so I'm staying optimistic about the future. He also picks up on my tone when I decide I'm not going to dress him too fast or argue with him. Most days are still a tug-of-war, though—he's still little. But I guarantee you, no amount of hitting is going to teach him anything. To actually work, it would have to hurt, and if it hurts that much, it's just causing internal damage. To him, a swat on the butt means nothing; he’ll keep doing whatever he wants until I physically stop him, because his fixations are stronger than anything else. Well, except maybe my 110 lbs of pure fury, muahaha.

Yeah, I guess hitting someone through a diaper would be pretty ineffective. It makes me wonder if people actually end up hitting their own kids directly, or maybe just really hard over the diaper so it actually registers, or perhaps they just target other parts of the body instead. I don't know, it all feels a bit mysterious to me—this whole idea of striking your own children—and even the theory that it works instantly as an effective fix (haha!) compared to just talking or trying harder. But I suppose we're getting deep into parenting styles now, and I'd rather not get bogged down in those little tricks. 🙂 ajmo o batina Radja.

Maybe some of the tough guys will chime in soon.

Scott Cox56 said:Yeah, I guess hitting someone through a diaper would be pretty ineffective. It makes me wonder if people actually end up hitting their own kids directly, or maybe just really hard over the diaper so it actually registers, or perhaps they just target other parts of the body instead. I don't know, it all feels a bit mysterious to me—this whole idea of striking your own children—and even the theory that it works instantly as an effective fix (haha!) compared to just talking or trying harder. But I suppose we're getting deep into parenting styles now, and I'd rather not get bogged down in those little tricks. 🙂 ajmo o batina Radja.

Maybe some of the tough guys will chime in soon.

Like I said before, I totally get the sickness, the fear, the pure rage in that moment. Seriously, props to all of us for having the self-control given the situations we're put in. My toddler actually bit my nipple two days in a row—blood everywhere—and it pushed me right to the edge. I was losing my mind. But he just doesn't get what he did, and while I want him to understand, and one day he will realize something was wrong, I know if I had lashed out at him then, he wouldn't have learned anything. He would've just been pushed away for a few hours because his brain isn't even wired to process it yet. But deep down, he wouldn't forget what I did to him. It would stick.

And once he's old enough to grasp it, I'll just be stuck in a loop of saying "no, no, no" until he gets it. Because I can see it's working—it’s frustratingly slow, but it works. And it doesn't hurt!

Way to go! 👍 It’s one thing when you’re dealing with those little little ones, but these wild ones... they're a whole different story.

I mean, I guess everything just comes down to how you're handling things with such a tight schedule. 🤣 😁