Spanking and physical discipline: what are your thoughts?

Carl Bishop2 said:Quentin

I’ve been thinking a lot about the background of kids who end up in foster care or residential facilities—specifically those teenagers who seem to direct all their aggression toward you the moment they hit adolescence. It really makes you wonder about the domestic environment they came from. From what I can gather, there isn't just one single "type" of family, but there are definitely patterns. Often, these kids come from homes where there was a significant amount of instability—think chronic financial stress, substance abuse issues, or perhaps a lack of consistent emotional availability from the parents. It’s rarely just one thing; it’s usually a combination of factors that leaves a child feeling like the world is an unpredictable or even hostile place. As for the physical aspect, it's a heavy question, but much of the research suggests that yes, many of these kids have experienced physical punishment or even more severe forms of corporal punishment during their early childhood. When a child grows up learning that physical force is how you resolve conflict or express frustration, they often internalize that as their primary "language." By the time they reach their teenage years, that behavior often shifts outward. They aren't necessarily "bad kids"—it's more like they're using a survival mechanism that they learned at home. When they start targeting you, it’s frequently a defensive reflex; they are testing boundaries or trying to regain a sense of control in an environment that feels unfamiliar. It’s almost like they’re projecting the chaos they experienced growing up onto the people trying to provide them with structure. It's a tough cycle to break, but understanding that their outbursts are often a delayed reaction to past trauma helps make sense of why they lash out when you least expect it.

These are some really solid links you've shared here. 👍
For those of you looking to dive a bit deeper into this, I’d really suggest picking up the book...discipline without dramaIt’s also something you’ll find tucked away in libraries—you know, those quiet little corners where you can really get lost in a thought.

The kid who swung at me, official records show zero physical abuse from parents. It was just pure neglect. (He swung because I wouldn't give him what he wanted right then). Most of the violence he dealt with actually came from peers in the group homes.

Most of the kids placed in this specific center where I work—not all, but most—come from messy family situations, though physical violence isn't happening everywhere.

Harold Anderson3 said:@Musk, you should bring your boyfriend or me along to work one day so we can collectively "re-educate" those little kids who keep acting out toward you 😒
I mean, seriously, why on earth would someone actually try to punch you? I feel terrible about it 😢 hang in there!

Thanks, Harold. 🙂
Getting punched is just another Tuesday here. Not even exaggerating.
I know how to defend myself. I'm not scared. 😁

rowdytiger13 said:My brother and I grew up in a house where hands were never laid on us. I don't recall a single instance of a parent hitting me; at most, things would get loud, and that was the absolute limit of how intense it got. We were raised strictly through a system of rewards and consequences... if I’m being blunt, it felt more like training. If you messed up, the punishment stayed in effect until it was served, and both of them were damnably relentless about that.
To be honest... there were plenty of times I actually wished they’d just lost it and given me a beating, just so I could take my medicine and move on—whether that meant being grounded from the PC, staying inside, or whatever else they decided. They always picked the "perfect" punishment.
Looking back, I’m actually grateful for it. I’m proud of them for being among those rare types of parents who managed to raise two sons without ever resorting to violence, though I have to give credit to my mother, who had the time and the patience to keep everything running smoothly at home.

Solid post. 👍

Kids learn internal structure and discipline by adopting an external one. Control, in general, is about following instructions—whether they're coming from the outside or the inside. Self-control and internal regulation depend on the development of inner speech, which stems from social speech. External control has to come before self-control. Your folks definitely "forced" it on you—trained you, as you put it—to prep you for independent life. They set up a clear external structure for you without the physical beatings, just using psychological pressure instead.😁

If we actually want to raise kids who aren't miserable and anxious, we need to focus on emotional intelligence. A huge part of that? Teaching them how to delay gratification.

Parenting is a total moving target these days. You gotta be flexible.
The trick is giving them enough structure so they don't grow up totally lost, but not so much that they never learn how to function on their own. Phew.

Harold Anderson3 said:It's honestly terrifying 😢 reading about how children manage to survive those kinds of situations in a book I once came across.
It mentioned things like dissociating from your own body or making peace with death—I don't remember every detail, but that was the gist. Some people grow up to become sociopaths, while most deal with various psychological struggles.
I vividly remember my younger half-brother, who's three years my junior, getting beaten because he struggled with math. My stepmother used to hit him so hard he'd lose track of which hand was his left and which was his right. I'm not exaggerating. It’s actually quite surprising how normally he seems to have turned out, but he still struggles with sudden, impulsive reactions and can never seem to just sit still; he always has to be doing something.
I don't want to pry into his personal business, especially since I carry my own baggage from everything I went through, too. But genetics plays such a massive role here; someone who has endured all that chaos might still end up a healthy person, provided they have the right genetic foundation.

That sense of detachment is actually called dissociation. It’s when you try to recall certain moments later and either find huge gaps in your memory, or you see those scenes playing back like a movie filmed from a few feet above your head. You might even experience this during an everyday situation where parts of the "film" just go missing, even if you haven't touched any alcohol or drugs. For instance, you might drive to work, park in the lot, and realize you have absolutely no memory of the drive itself. Logically, you know you took the usual route and didn't get into any accidents, but the memory just isn't there. Or, someone could be talking to you and it’s like they aren't making a sound, even though your hearing is perfectly fine. You realize you've missed the last fifteen minutes of their story because you simply checked out (which can often be a lingering effect of emotional trauma experienced during childhood).

As for making peace with death... honestly, if someone told me I was going to pass away tomorrow, I don't think I'd have much of an emotional meltdown. I’d probably just focus on getting my affairs in order—finishing up work tasks, drafting a will, cleaning out my computer, and organizing my paperwork. There's a certain practical advantage to that mindset, too. ☕

Joseph Bailey41 said:That sense of detachment is actually called dissociation. It’s when you try to recall certain moments later and either find huge gaps in your memory, or you see those scenes playing back like a movie filmed from a few feet above your head. You might even experience this during an everyday situation where parts of the "film" just go missing, even if you haven't touched any alcohol or drugs. For instance, you might drive to work, park in the lot, and realize you have absolutely no memory of the drive itself. Logically, you know you took the usual route and didn't get into any accidents, but the memory just isn't there. Or, someone could be talking to you and it’s like they aren't making a sound, even though your hearing is perfectly fine. You realize you've missed the last fifteen minutes of their story because you simply checked out (which can often be a lingering effect of emotional trauma experienced during childhood).

As for making peace with death... honestly, if someone told me I was going to pass away tomorrow, I don't think I'd have much of an emotional meltdown. I’d probably just focus on getting my affairs in order—finishing up work tasks, drafting a will, cleaning out my computer, and organizing my paperwork. There's a certain practical advantage to that mindset, too. ☕

That first thing I mentioned actually happened to me right at the height of a psychotic episode. I had this overwhelming sensation that everything was being recorded, almost like I was living inside some massive version of Big Brother 😲

I've made my peace with death, and while it's unlikely to happen soon, I know I could die tomorrow. I've actually come pretty close to dying about ten different times in my life. But I'm still here, and I view every day since then as a gift. We all face mortality eventually, one way or another, it's just part of the deal.

Harold Anderson3 said:It's honestly terrifying 😢 reading about how children manage to survive those kinds of situations in a book I once came across.
It mentioned things like dissociating from your own body or making peace with death—I don't remember every detail, but that was the gist. Some people grow up to become sociopaths, while most deal with various psychological struggles.
I vividly remember my younger half-brother, who's three years my junior, getting beaten because he struggled with math. My stepmother used to hit him so hard he'd lose track of which hand was his left and which was his right. I'm not exaggerating. It’s actually quite surprising how normally he seems to have turned out, but he still struggles with sudden, impulsive reactions and can never seem to just sit still; he always has to be doing something.
I don't want to pry into his personal business, especially since I carry my own baggage from everything I went through, too. But genetics plays such a massive role here; someone who has endured all that chaos might still end up a healthy person, provided they have the right genetic foundation.

Ugh, man. I am seriously so sorry for everything you and your brother went through... but I can see you're fighting to get to a better place. 👍

I'm not gonna stick my nose into your relationship with your brother. Especially because I know not everyone wants to fix things—and definitely not in a way that works for me or you. Plus, it's hard to help someone else when you haven't helped yourself yet.
Sometimes, just being there as support and showing love is enough.

I have a sister too, and I think she's had it even tougher than I did in some ways.
All I want is for her to be happy and at peace with herself... but I can't force anything except being there whenever she needs me. I just hope we've built enough of a bond that she actually feels comfortable reaching out when she needs support or just someone to sit with.
I got pretty lucky—I didn't learn to repress everything, but she didn't have that luxury.

As for me personally, all those shifts drove me crazy. Honestly, the emotional stuff hit way harder than the physical punishments. One minute I'm telling my parent everything, the next I feel like I have an anchor tied around my neck; one second I see love and connection, the next it's pure rage—or like I said, hate. All those mixed signals really messed with me since I was a sponge, soaking up everything around me as a kid. And I only saw "pure" love during the moments where I was completely submissive, so that became my default mode—being submissive was how I functioned in childhood. That's why, among other things, I used to just fall apart.

I don't hold grudges anymore, though. I've finally started seeing my parents as just humans rather than "gods" who were "obligated" to love me.

And yeah, I've made peace with death. I've been thinking about it since I was 13. I almost died myself—thankfully I survived, but there was this period where I felt this weird grief that I wasn't dead already.

Maybe in the last year or two, everything just flipped. I hit rock bottom, remembered all the stuff I wanted to forget, was right on the edge of making some drastic moves... and then, for the first time, I rebuilt myself on some actual solid ground.
Now, I see things for what they actually are, not how I wished they would be.

Harold Anderson3 said:That first thing I mentioned actually happened to me right at the height of a psychotic episode. I had this overwhelming sensation that everything was being recorded, almost like I was living inside some massive version of Big Brother 😲

I've made my peace with death, and while it's unlikely to happen soon, I know I could die tomorrow. I've actually come pretty close to dying about ten different times in my life. But I'm still here, and I view every day since then as a gift. We all face mortality eventually, one way or another, it's just part of the deal.

I think we misunderstood each other; those are two different things. What I was talking about wasn't about the actual experience while it's happening (like when you felt like you were being recorded).

I’ve never experienced anything quite like that, except for when a memory from, say, five years old pops up. It doesn't feel like I'm reliving it or seeing through my own eyes. Instead, it’s like watching a finished movie from a third-person perspective, looking down from above... as if I stepped a few feet out of my own body back then to film what was happening, and now I'm just watching the footage.

To put it in gaming terms, regular memories feel like playing 'Doom,' whereas these dissociative ones feel more like 'Tomb Raider' (I don't mean the story itself, just the camera angle—first-person versus third-person).

Peter Murphy6 said:Ugh, man. I am seriously so sorry for everything you and your brother went through... but I can see you're fighting to get to a better place. 👍

I'm not gonna stick my nose into your relationship with your brother. Especially because I know not everyone wants to fix things—and definitely not in a way that works for me or you. Plus, it's hard to help someone else when you haven't helped yourself yet.
Sometimes, just being there as support and showing love is enough.

I have a sister too, and I think she's had it even tougher than I did in some ways.
All I want is for her to be happy and at peace with herself... but I can't force anything except being there whenever she needs me. I just hope we've built enough of a bond that she actually feels comfortable reaching out when she needs support or just someone to sit with.
I got pretty lucky—I didn't learn to repress everything, but she didn't have that luxury.

As for me personally, all those shifts drove me crazy. Honestly, the emotional stuff hit way harder than the physical punishments. One minute I'm telling my parent everything, the next I feel like I have an anchor tied around my neck; one second I see love and connection, the next it's pure rage—or like I said, hate. All those mixed signals really messed with me since I was a sponge, soaking up everything around me as a kid. And I only saw "pure" love during the moments where I was completely submissive, so that became my default mode—being submissive was how I functioned in childhood. That's why, among other things, I used to just fall apart.

I don't hold grudges anymore, though. I've finally started seeing my parents as just humans rather than "gods" who were "obligated" to love me.

And yeah, I've made peace with death. I've been thinking about it since I was 13. I almost died myself—thankfully I survived, but there was this period where I felt this weird grief that I wasn't dead already.

Maybe in the last year or two, everything just flipped. I hit rock bottom, remembered all the stuff I wanted to forget, was right on the edge of making some drastic moves... and then, for the first time, I rebuilt myself on some actual solid ground.
Now, I see things for what they actually are, not how I wished they would be.

I suppose, what else is there left to do? 😒

I’ve hit rock bottom myself, more than once, and I found that the way out wasn't tucked away in just one thing—not in my faith, my career, my family, sports, my social life, or even medication—but rather in finding a way to weave all of those pieces together. 🙂

Harold Anderson3 said:I suppose, what else is there left to do? 😒

I’ve hit rock bottom myself, more than once, and I found that the way out wasn't tucked away in just one thing—not in my faith, my career, my family, sports, my social life, or even medication—but rather in finding a way to weave all of those pieces together. 🙂

Yeah, I get it, obviously you don't have many options left—but a lot of people just stay stuck in that hole. I can see you're actually trying to "climb out." 🙂

Doesn't matter how you found your way out. 🙂

Look, when I talk about my own "productive" trip to rock bottom, I'm not saying everyone should do it that way. Honestly, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

Joseph Bailey41 said:That sense of detachment is actually called dissociation. It’s when you try to recall certain moments later and either find huge gaps in your memory, or you see those scenes playing back like a movie filmed from a few feet above your head. You might even experience this during an everyday situation where parts of the "film" just go missing, even if you haven't touched any alcohol or drugs. For instance, you might drive to work, park in the lot, and realize you have absolutely no memory of the drive itself. Logically, you know you took the usual route and didn't get into any accidents, but the memory just isn't there. Or, someone could be talking to you and it’s like they aren't making a sound, even though your hearing is perfectly fine. You realize you've missed the last fifteen minutes of their story because you simply checked out (which can often be a lingering effect of emotional trauma experienced during childhood).

As for making peace with death... honestly, if someone told me I was going to pass away tomorrow, I don't think I'd have much of an emotional meltdown. I’d probably just focus on getting my affairs in order—finishing up work tasks, drafting a will, cleaning out my computer, and organizing my paperwork. There's a certain practical advantage to that mindset, too. ☕

Is that all because of repression?
And is there actually a fix for it?

Edit: alright, I'll stop going off topic🙂

Joseph Bailey41 said:I think we misunderstood each other; those are two different things. What I was talking about wasn't about the actual experience while it's happening (like when you felt like you were being recorded).

I’ve never experienced anything quite like that, except for when a memory from, say, five years old pops up. It doesn't feel like I'm reliving it or seeing through my own eyes. Instead, it’s like watching a finished movie from a third-person perspective, looking down from above... as if I stepped a few feet out of my own body back then to film what was happening, and now I'm just watching the footage.

To put it in gaming terms, regular memories feel like playing 'Doom,' whereas these dissociative ones feel more like 'Tomb Raider' (I don't mean the story itself, just the camera angle—first-person versus third-person).

Well, that’s exactly what I was getting at. 🤔

When you're going through a psychotic episode, there’s this distinct, unsettling sensation where you start having these vivid hallucinations that people are talking about you in the third person.
And just imagine if they were filming you, too.

It isn’t a bad idea to leave the past behind you—not in the sense of erasing it entirely, mind you, but more about reaching that point where you realize those old, negative chapters just don't have any power over you anymore.
It doesn't feel quite right to lean too far in either direction, honestly—even when it comes to daydreaming about some sort of perfect future.
I really feel like we all need to find a way to ground ourselves back in the present moment, no matter how difficult that might be.

Just like everything else these days, with society being so incredibly polarized, the whole debate over physical discipline has become the ultimate holy grail of modern parenting.
If you’re in favor, you’re labeled an abuser; if you’re against it, you’re seen as some crazy hippie who’s going to raise a little >.
But the truth is, every child is unique, and there isn't a one-size-fits-all rulebook that works for everyone.
My own child is what a psychologist would call "difficult to raise," even though he also called me a very caring mother—regardless of the occasional swat on the backside.

When we sit down to talk, I feel like I'm conversing with a tiny adult rather than a five-year-old; he understands just about everything. He even picks up on sarcasm, which I've been told is a sign of high intelligence! You can see it all within the first five minutes.

However, in the *next* five minutes, that same child is capable of sprinting into a busy street, dumping a full glass of juice on the cat, stuffing an entire roll of toilet paper into the toilet, or jamming coins into the car radio... all at Superman speeds.

Naturally, after trying to reason with him, you eventually just explode. It’s hard to wrap your head around the fact that your kid can be Einstein one moment and then—well, since I lack a better description—Donald Trump the next. 🤔

First, I had to realize that my child isn't a clone of me. Just because I "would never" do something doesn't mean he won't.
Second, I had to learn the vital difference between authority and fear. My own mother used to hit me occasionally, but I absolutely adored her, loved her, and listened to her. I think I turned out pretty well because of it.
On the flip side, my father never laid a hand on me, but he was emotionally cold and, frankly, quite immature, which I interpreted as him hating me. To be honest, I harbored a deep resentment toward him well into my adult years.
I am teaching my son to respect me. So far, it's working; the outbursts are at a minimum, and he listens to me. Plus, he actually talks to me and tells me he loves me.
But yes, getting to this point required a lot of patience, endless conversations, and sometimes, having to firmly show him what really happens when I say: "this is the last time you do that."

Joseph Bailey41 said:Reading through this thread—man, I’ve felt a knot in my stomach at least five times now. My own experience was more emotional than physical, at least from what I can remember. I can't process everything yet, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't the kind of heavy-duty beating that gets you a police report or makes CPS show up at your door. It was just... "standard" parenting with a belt or a wooden spoon.

Exactly. I had a similar reaction when dealing with "toxic parents."

For us, it was mostly short bursts of anger and aggression—not the actual beatings that way too many kids unfortunately endure.
The only thing that really sticks with me—the part that still "bugs" me—is that look in a parent's eyes that you just don't want to see.

On topic, though...
Like I said, I can only speculate here. I don't know how much kids actually realize while they're living through it.
One thing is for sure: my North Star will be *not* hitting. Especially if my kid is driving me up the wall in that moment. (I could go on about how my kid will never frustrate me like that... but... hey, I'm not a mom yet.)

And I'm definitely not looking to raise a bunch of incompetent, spoiled brats to throw into the world—we have plenty of those already.

I'll figure some things out as I go.
Either way, I still don't buy for a second that physical discipline comes from any kind of heaven.

Harold Anderson3 said:@ rowdytiger13, my stepmother—who used to beat me and my half-siblings until we were completely exhausted—was also beaten herself until she was bruised blue by her own mother, who would actually hold a knife to her throat.
It’s this heavy chain that just keeps passing down through the generations. But, honestly, I truly believe the chance to break that cycle always lies right here in the present moment, and if I ever have kids of my own, I promise I won't lay a hand on them.
Did your parents ever deal with physical abuse? Do you know anything about what their childhood was like?

My mom grew up in a rural farming town and worked incredibly hard, but she never mentions being hit, just being forced to stand in the corner. Whenever she was being naughty, that was her punishment, and she talks about it often... being stuck in that corner really traumatized her, I think she spent a lot of time there. 😁
My dad's mother tragically lost his father, so she became a total helicopter parent. She didn't lay a hand on them, but she was borderline obsessive.
What you're describing is straight-up abuse (just like it was with my former neighbor). I don't mean to offend anyone, but if you beat a child so hard they end up with injuries and bruises all over their body... that isn't "spanking," that's child abuse.

rowdytiger13 said:My brother and I grew up in a house where hands were never laid on us. I don't recall a single instance of a parent hitting me; at most, things would get loud, and that was the absolute limit of how intense it got. We were raised strictly through a system of rewards and consequences... if I’m being blunt, it felt more like training. If you messed up, the punishment stayed in effect until it was served, and both of them were damnably relentless about that.
To be honest... there were plenty of times I actually wished they’d just lost it and given me a beating, just so I could take my medicine and move on—whether that meant being grounded from the PC, staying inside, or whatever else they decided. They always picked the "perfect" punishment.
Looking back, I’m actually grateful for it. I’m proud of them for being among those rare types of parents who managed to raise two sons without ever resorting to violence, though I have to give credit to my mother, who had the time and the patience to keep everything running smoothly at home.

That’s basically what I’m talking about. Getting rewarded just for being a pain in the ass is actually a punishment. You use a system of rewards and consequences to guide a kid, right? But you can't do that unless you actually know where you're going. You shouldn't be sending a kid down a path that's just gonna screw them over. A kid needs to be able to trust their parents. They need to see real-world examples that prove what the parent is doing actually makes sense—that the parent can actually predict an outcome better than the kid can.

Joseph Bailey41 said:If you're going to make a point, it's on you to tie it all together logically rather than expecting me to play mind reader to figure out what you meant. You can't teach children (or adults, for that matter) how to make independent decisions through physical punishment.

But let's try this instead—did your little "cloning" experiment have any actual negative consequences? And were you even aware of the rule against using two different accounts in the same thread?

Give me an answer to that, and then we can move forward. ☕

Look, I'm trying to make this clear, but I honestly don't get where he's getting it from. 🤷

Let's try this instead—did your cloning thing actually cause any trouble? And are you even aware that running two accounts on the same thread is against the rules?

Answer me that first, then we can move on. ☕

🤣 Who else do you think I am? Just curious. 🤣

Harold Anderson3 said:@ rowdytiger13, my stepmother—who used to beat me and my half-siblings until we were completely exhausted—was also beaten herself until she was bruised blue by her own mother, who would actually hold a knife to her throat.
It’s this heavy chain that just keeps passing down through the generations. But, honestly, I truly believe the chance to break that cycle always lies right here in the present moment, and if I ever have kids of my own, I promise I won't lay a hand on them.
Did your parents ever deal with physical abuse? Do you know anything about what their childhood was like?

Peter Murphy6 said:Look, I’m not a parent yet, so I don't claim to know everything—I just have a pretty clear vision of how I want things to go.
From a kid's perspective, the worst part about physical punishment wasn't even the actual hit or the pain... it was seeing that pure rage, almost hatred, in my parents' eyes. That's what really creeped me out—that raw aggression.

Honestly, it feels to me like when a parent raises their hand, it’s rarely some calm, rational single strike that sticks with you. It’s usually just an explosion of anger because they ran out of patience.

Just thinking out loud here, but I hope that when I eventually reach that stage where my kid is driving me absolutely insane and I feel the urge to lash out... I'll be able to just walk away, cool off, and then deal with it.
Right after, I'll take a second to actually figure out why I'm feeling the urge to hit someone—especially a child. Aggression kicks in whenever someone doesn't "flow" exactly the way we planned for them.

My point is, if "disciplinary" hits ever happen, they aren't coming from a place of wanting to teach the kid a lesson. They come from wanting to satisfy an impulse. And then it gets wrapped up in this whole "doing it for the child's own good" excuse.

Look, this thread isn't about aggressive parents losing their cool and beating their kids. Those people beat adults too, which is a completely different beast, right? Unless they’re only targeting the sick. Which is even worse. But that's not what I'm talking about here.

I'm talking about using punishment to guide a kid. If you're the parent, what's your move? Capable. Deciding what's actually best for your kid. Harder than it looks, right?

The truth is, most people just stay quiet because they can't actually raise a kid properly to begin with. You're all out here giving me examples like, "Oh, these parents were beating their kids." Please. Most folks don't even have the basics down. 😕 So, let's talk about aggressive people. Nowadays, everyone's obsessed with this "no aggression" mantra. You've got these parents who swear by every parenting book on the shelf, trying to raise kids perfectly by the manual. It’s all very polite, right? But honestly, I want to hear from the realists. Does anyone actually have an example of parents who were decent people but still used physical discipline? Is that even allowed to be said anymore?

So I have this friend, right? Total powerhouse. Smart, responsible, killing it in her career. She told me that back when she was fourteen, she ran away from home with some guy and left a note for her parents. When they finally tracked her down, they absolutely laid into her with a belt. She told me—and I’m quoting here—“I never once thought about doing something like that again.” She didn't end up with any long-term trauma or anything; she’s fine. And now that she has her own kid, the idea of messing around with her child like that never even crosses her mind. Why is that?

He’s way too close to his parents. He respects his old man too much. Seeing him react like that? It honestly just shamed her. How much did she have to hurt or scare him to trigger a reaction like that? She's never doing it again. That wasn't the goal.

Honestly, it feels like most of you aren't even listening to what I'm saying. You just don't get it. Look, I’m speaking theoretically here. I'm talking about guiding a kid this way, assuming the parent actually has their life together enough to handle everything else. You gotta nail the basics first—emotional stability. The kid needs to feel safe, protected, and actually led in the right direction. That's the priority. What’s the number one thing when it comes to raising kids? Honestly, what even matters most?

The examples you guys are throwing out about aggressive psychos are total nonsense. They have zero to do with what we're actually talking about. 🤔 Look, I’m not talking about child abuse here, and I’m definitely not even hinting at it. 🤣

rowdytiger13 said:My mom grew up in a rural farming town and worked incredibly hard, but she never mentions being hit, just being forced to stand in the corner. Whenever she was being naughty, that was her punishment, and she talks about it often... being stuck in that corner really traumatized her, I think she spent a lot of time there. 😁
My dad's mother tragically lost his father, so she became a total helicopter parent. She didn't lay a hand on them, but she was borderline obsessive.
What you're describing is straight-up abuse (just like it was with my former neighbor). I don't mean to offend anyone, but if you beat a child so hard they end up with injuries and bruises all over their body... that isn't "spanking," that's child abuse.

Exactly. It all comes down to the "why." If a kid breaks a glass and gets physically lashed out at for it? That’s straight-up twisted. People like that shouldn't even be allowed near kids. Punishment should only ever be about what's actually good for the child. Period.

Kenneth Barnes4 said:That’s basically what I’m talking about. Getting rewarded just for being a pain in the ass is actually a punishment. You use a system of rewards and consequences to guide a kid, right? But you can't do that unless you actually know where you're going. You shouldn't be sending a kid down a path that's just gonna screw them over. A kid needs to be able to trust their parents. They need to see real-world examples that prove what the parent is doing actually makes sense—that the parent can actually predict an outcome better than the kid can.

Look, I'm trying to make this clear, but I honestly don't get where he's getting it from. 🤷

Let's try this instead—did your cloning thing actually cause any trouble? And are you even aware that running two accounts on the same thread is against the rules?

Answer me that first, then we can move on. ☕

🤣 Who else do you think I am? Just curious. 🤣

Look, this thread isn't about aggressive parents losing their cool and beating their kids. Those people beat adults too, which is a completely different beast, right? Unless they’re only targeting the sick. Which is even worse. But that's not what I'm talking about here.

I'm talking about using punishment to guide a kid. If you're the parent, what's your move? Capable. Deciding what's actually best for your kid. Harder than it looks, right?

The truth is, most people just stay quiet because they can't actually raise a kid properly to begin with. You're all out here giving me examples like, "Oh, these parents were beating their kids." Please. Most folks don't even have the basics down. 😕 So, let's talk about aggressive people. Nowadays, everyone's obsessed with this "no aggression" mantra. You've got these parents who swear by every parenting book on the shelf, trying to raise kids perfectly by the manual. It’s all very polite, right? But honestly, I want to hear from the realists. Does anyone actually have an example of parents who were decent people but still used physical discipline? Is that even allowed to be said anymore?

So I have this friend, right? Total powerhouse. Smart, responsible, killing it in her career. She told me that back when she was fourteen, she ran away from home with some guy and left a note for her parents. When they finally tracked her down, they absolutely laid into her with a belt. She told me—and I’m quoting here—“I never once thought about doing something like that again.” She didn't end up with any long-term trauma or anything; she’s fine. And now that she has her own kid, the idea of messing around with her child like that never even crosses her mind. Why is that?

He’s way too close to his parents. He respects his old man too much. Seeing him react like that? It honestly just shamed her. How much did she have to hurt or scare him to trigger a reaction like that? She's never doing it again. That wasn't the goal.

Honestly, it feels like most of you aren't even listening to what I'm saying. You just don't get it. Look, I’m speaking theoretically here. I'm talking about guiding a kid this way, assuming the parent actually has their life together enough to handle everything else. You gotta nail the basics first—emotional stability. The kid needs to feel safe, protected, and actually led in the right direction. That's the priority. What’s the number one thing when it comes to raising kids? Honestly, what even matters most?

The examples you guys are throwing out about aggressive psychos are total nonsense. They have zero to do with what we're actually talking about. 🤔 Look, I’m not talking about child abuse here, and I’m definitely not even hinting at it. 🤣

Exactly. It all comes down to the "why." If a kid breaks a glass and gets physically lashed out at for it? That’s straight-up twisted. People like that shouldn't even be allowed near kids. Punishment should only ever be about what's actually good for the child. Period.

Actually, I think you're the one missing the point of what we're telling you! A child is never going to feel safe or truly loved if they're being physically punished—period. No matter how you slice it, physical discipline leaves lasting scars. But you just won't acknowledge that, even after seeing dozens of links proving it's true.
Also—you're still dodging the question: why exactly is corporal punishment illegal in the US?

Kenneth Barnes4 said:That’s basically what I’m talking about. Getting rewarded just for being a pain in the ass is actually a punishment. You use a system of rewards and consequences to guide a kid, right? But you can't do that unless you actually know where you're going. You shouldn't be sending a kid down a path that's just gonna screw them over. A kid needs to be able to trust their parents. They need to see real-world examples that prove what the parent is doing actually makes sense—that the parent can actually predict an outcome better than the kid can.

Look, I'm trying to make this clear, but I honestly don't get where he's getting it from. 🤷

Let's try this instead—did your cloning thing actually cause any trouble? And are you even aware that running two accounts on the same thread is against the rules?

Answer me that first, then we can move on. ☕

🤣 Who else do you think I am? Just curious. 🤣

Look, this thread isn't about aggressive parents losing their cool and beating their kids. Those people beat adults too, which is a completely different beast, right? Unless they’re only targeting the sick. Which is even worse. But that's not what I'm talking about here.

I'm talking about using punishment to guide a kid. If you're the parent, what's your move? Capable. Deciding what's actually best for your kid. Harder than it looks, right?

The truth is, most people just stay quiet because they can't actually raise a kid properly to begin with. You're all out here giving me examples like, "Oh, these parents were beating their kids." Please. Most folks don't even have the basics down. 😕 So, let's talk about aggressive people. Nowadays, everyone's obsessed with this "no aggression" mantra. You've got these parents who swear by every parenting book on the shelf, trying to raise kids perfectly by the manual. It’s all very polite, right? But honestly, I want to hear from the realists. Does anyone actually have an example of parents who were decent people but still used physical discipline? Is that even allowed to be said anymore?

So I have this friend, right? Total powerhouse. Smart, responsible, killing it in her career. She told me that back when she was fourteen, she ran away from home with some guy and left a note for her parents. When they finally tracked her down, they absolutely laid into her with a belt. She told me—and I’m quoting here—“I never once thought about doing something like that again.” She didn't end up with any long-term trauma or anything; she’s fine. And now that she has her own kid, the idea of messing around with her child like that never even crosses her mind. Why is that?

He’s way too close to his parents. He respects his old man too much. Seeing him react like that? It honestly just shamed her. How much did she have to hurt or scare him to trigger a reaction like that? She's never doing it again. That wasn't the goal.

Honestly, it feels like most of you aren't even listening to what I'm saying. You just don't get it. Look, I’m speaking theoretically here. I'm talking about guiding a kid this way, assuming the parent actually has their life together enough to handle everything else. You gotta nail the basics first—emotional stability. The kid needs to feel safe, protected, and actually led in the right direction. That's the priority. What’s the number one thing when it comes to raising kids? Honestly, what even matters most?

The examples you guys are throwing out about aggressive psychos are total nonsense. They have zero to do with what we're actually talking about. 🤔 Look, I’m not talking about child abuse here, and I’m definitely not even hinting at it. 🤣

Exactly. It all comes down to the "why." If a kid breaks a glass and gets physically lashed out at for it? That’s straight-up twisted. People like that shouldn't even be allowed near kids. Punishment should only ever be about what's actually good for the child. Period.

I don't think so. I know better. And what you're doing isn't right—it really isn't.

Kenneth Barnes4 said:That’s basically what I’m talking about. Getting rewarded just for being a pain in the ass is actually a punishment. You use a system of rewards and consequences to guide a kid, right? But you can't do that unless you actually know where you're going. You shouldn't be sending a kid down a path that's just gonna screw them over. A kid needs to be able to trust their parents. They need to see real-world examples that prove what the parent is doing actually makes sense—that the parent can actually predict an outcome better than the kid can.

Look, I'm trying to make this clear, but I honestly don't get where he's getting it from. 🤷

Let's try this instead—did your cloning thing actually cause any trouble? And are you even aware that running two accounts on the same thread is against the rules?

Answer me that first, then we can move on. ☕

🤣 Who else do you think I am? Just curious. 🤣

Look, this thread isn't about aggressive parents losing their cool and beating their kids. Those people beat adults too, which is a completely different beast, right? Unless they’re only targeting the sick. Which is even worse. But that's not what I'm talking about here.

I'm talking about using punishment to guide a kid. If you're the parent, what's your move? Capable. Deciding what's actually best for your kid. Harder than it looks, right?

The truth is, most people just stay quiet because they can't actually raise a kid properly to begin with. You're all out here giving me examples like, "Oh, these parents were beating their kids." Please. Most folks don't even have the basics down. 😕 So, let's talk about aggressive people. Nowadays, everyone's obsessed with this "no aggression" mantra. You've got these parents who swear by every parenting book on the shelf, trying to raise kids perfectly by the manual. It’s all very polite, right? But honestly, I want to hear from the realists. Does anyone actually have an example of parents who were decent people but still used physical discipline? Is that even allowed to be said anymore?

So I have this friend, right? Total powerhouse. Smart, responsible, killing it in her career. She told me that back when she was fourteen, she ran away from home with some guy and left a note for her parents. When they finally tracked her down, they absolutely laid into her with a belt. She told me—and I’m quoting here—“I never once thought about doing something like that again.” She didn't end up with any long-term trauma or anything; she’s fine. And now that she has her own kid, the idea of messing around with her child like that never even crosses her mind. Why is that?

He’s way too close to his parents. He respects his old man too much. Seeing him react like that? It honestly just shamed her. How much did she have to hurt or scare him to trigger a reaction like that? She's never doing it again. That wasn't the goal.

Honestly, it feels like most of you aren't even listening to what I'm saying. You just don't get it. Look, I’m speaking theoretically here. I'm talking about guiding a kid this way, assuming the parent actually has their life together enough to handle everything else. You gotta nail the basics first—emotional stability. The kid needs to feel safe, protected, and actually led in the right direction. That's the priority. What’s the number one thing when it comes to raising kids? Honestly, what even matters most?

The examples you guys are throwing out about aggressive psychos are total nonsense. They have zero to do with what we're actually talking about. 🤔 Look, I’m not talking about child abuse here, and I’m definitely not even hinting at it. 🤣

Exactly. It all comes down to the "why." If a kid breaks a glass and gets physically lashed out at for it? That’s straight-up twisted. People like that shouldn't even be allowed near kids. Punishment should only ever be about what's actually good for the child. Period.

I’ll put in a little effort to give this a proper response.
It’s a bit of a struggle for me to stay focused lately, but I suppose that doesn't really matter.

Regarding that girl (who is a woman now) and what she went through with a belt when she was fourteen.
Back in the day, we had one teacher from the old school system who absolutely terrified everyone. I actually ended up getting slapped by him a few times myself, even though he wasn't even my instructor.

And yet, all his former students held such deep respect—and maybe a bit of performative affection—for him once he stopped teaching them.

In fact, most of the kids in his classes grew up to be quite successful in their careers, and they're all around thirty years old now.

My home life was a total disaster zone. I had a high-strung, volatile stepmother who took her frustrations out on her kids, including me, so there were many times when being at school felt much safer than being at home.

For that teacher, and for my stepmother, that kind of discipline was considered perfectly acceptable. They simply didn't know any better at the time.

I don't hold it against them, even though I suffered a psychotic break when I was twenty-one. There are plenty of reasons why I'm on so much medication today; that isn't the only factor.

Anyway, what I mean to say is that we shouldn't judge people solely based on the mistakes they made in the past. My stepmother just gripped the reins as tightly as she could for as long as she could. And your friend is probably full of praise for her father,
from what I can gather, despite the fact that he laid hands on her when she was fourteen.

I got my own sort of payback by finally shouting back at her and her father when she thought she could still boss me around at twenty-five just like she did when I was ten. Though, I don't see the point in seeking direct revenge against someone who was cruel to me; after all, that person might be dead by now, and here I am still dwelling on things they did to me fifteen or twenty years ago.

I never hit her—my stepmother—even though my father told me he thought I eventually would, given how I was acting back then.

I hated my stepmother with every fiber of my being because of how she treated me throughout my entire childhood up until I moved out at eighteen, and even after that.

But I realize that carrying that hate gets me nowhere. Even though I tend to react impulsively or sharply sometimes, most of the time I try to act calm and composed.
Hate just eats you alive.
I could even say that those who have undergone psychoanalysis often learn just how much damage digging through the past can do. For me, that process was the trigger for my psychosis. I’ve come to realize that, in my case, cognitive behavioral therapy might actually be the better choice, especially with more severe diagnoses where medication isn't an option, but a necessity.

My half-brothers never saw a psychiatrist, even though, in some ways, they had a much harder upbringing than I did, particularly my older brother.

I think there are times when hitting a child might feel justified (regardless of the consequences from $100), but you can't apply the exact same principles or methods of punishment to every different child. What is the point of a punishment if it doesn't sting in some way? Personally, I found it easier to take a slap every now and then than to be stripped of my computer for a week or a month. 🤷

Kenneth Barnes4 said:Yeah, because it's a totally normal reaction for a kid to bolt to a corner and scream his head off after getting a spanking.

👍

I really don't have the energy for that... 🤣

So look, I think learning how to make decisions and understanding that your actions have consequences is a vital part of life. I was saying that physical punishment teaches kids that what they do matters. Google "decision making" and try to wrap your head around it 🙂 but whatever, it doesn't matter. I'm just putting my thoughts into words whenever I have some downtime.😬

Where exactly did I say he was just slightly disciplined?
The kid had visible bruising on his neck; the mother actually admitted she used a belt because he wouldn't study. It ended up being a whole thing with the school board protocols, Child Protective Services did absolutely nothing, and the mother is still hitting him over bad grades—so now the kid still isn't learning anything.

Do you honestly think that instead of physical abuse, he just lightly got a slap on the wrist to make him—study?

Jose Martin71 said:Where exactly did I say he was just slightly disciplined?
The kid had visible bruising on his neck; the mother actually admitted she used a belt because he wouldn't study. It ended up being a whole thing with the school board protocols, Child Protective Services did absolutely nothing, and the mother is still hitting him over bad grades—so now the kid still isn't learning anything.

Do you honestly think that instead of physical abuse, he just lightly got a slap on the wrist to make him—study?

🤣🤣🤣

I was asking if you think that's a normal reaction to being hit "a little," because obviously it isn't. I'm not talking about abuse here. Read the thread and what I'm actually saying, then comment once you realize what the point is.

Jose Martin71 said:Where exactly did I say he was just slightly disciplined?
The kid had visible bruising on his neck; the mother actually admitted she used a belt because he wouldn't study. It ended up being a whole thing with the school board protocols, Child Protective Services did absolutely nothing, and the mother is still hitting him over bad grades—so now the kid still isn't learning anything.

Do you honestly think that instead of physical abuse, he just lightly got a slap on the wrist to make him—study?

And what about the police response?
Or filing a follow-up report?
How is it even possible for a woman to admit she’s beating a child and have absolutely no one take action to protect that kid?

Quentin Tarantino

Kenneth Barnes4 said:That’s basically what I’m talking about. Getting rewarded just for being a pain in the ass is actually a punishment. You use a system of rewards and consequences to guide a kid, right? But you can't do that unless you actually know where you're going. You shouldn't be sending a kid down a path that's just gonna screw them over. A kid needs to be able to trust their parents. They need to see real-world examples that prove what the parent is doing actually makes sense—that the parent can actually predict an outcome better than the kid can.

Look, I'm trying to make this clear, but I honestly don't get where he's getting it from. 🤷

Let's try this instead—did your cloning thing actually cause any trouble? And are you even aware that running two accounts on the same thread is against the rules?

Answer me that first, then we can move on. ☕

🤣 Who else do you think I am? Just curious. 🤣

Look, this thread isn't about aggressive parents losing their cool and beating their kids. Those people beat adults too, which is a completely different beast, right? Unless they’re only targeting the sick. Which is even worse. But that's not what I'm talking about here.

I'm talking about using punishment to guide a kid. If you're the parent, what's your move? Capable. Deciding what's actually best for your kid. Harder than it looks, right?

The truth is, most people just stay quiet because they can't actually raise a kid properly to begin with. You're all out here giving me examples like, "Oh, these parents were beating their kids." Please. Most folks don't even have the basics down. 😕 So, let's talk about aggressive people. Nowadays, everyone's obsessed with this "no aggression" mantra. You've got these parents who swear by every parenting book on the shelf, trying to raise kids perfectly by the manual. It’s all very polite, right? But honestly, I want to hear from the realists. Does anyone actually have an example of parents who were decent people but still used physical discipline? Is that even allowed to be said anymore?

So I have this friend, right? Total powerhouse. Smart, responsible, killing it in her career. She told me that back when she was fourteen, she ran away from home with some guy and left a note for her parents. When they finally tracked her down, they absolutely laid into her with a belt. She told me—and I’m quoting here—“I never once thought about doing something like that again.” She didn't end up with any long-term trauma or anything; she’s fine. And now that she has her own kid, the idea of messing around with her child like that never even crosses her mind. Why is that?

He’s way too close to his parents. He respects his old man too much. Seeing him react like that? It honestly just shamed her. How much did she have to hurt or scare him to trigger a reaction like that? She's never doing it again. That wasn't the goal.

Honestly, it feels like most of you aren't even listening to what I'm saying. You just don't get it. Look, I’m speaking theoretically here. I'm talking about guiding a kid this way, assuming the parent actually has their life together enough to handle everything else. You gotta nail the basics first—emotional stability. The kid needs to feel safe, protected, and actually led in the right direction. That's the priority. What’s the number one thing when it comes to raising kids? Honestly, what even matters most?

The examples you guys are throwing out about aggressive psychos are total nonsense. They have zero to do with what we're actually talking about. 🤔 Look, I’m not talking about child abuse here, and I’m definitely not even hinting at it. 🤣

Exactly. It all comes down to the "why." If a kid breaks a glass and gets physically lashed out at for it? That’s straight-up twisted. People like that shouldn't even be allowed near kids. Punishment should only ever be about what's actually good for the child. Period.

Look, regarding that blow—I’m telling you, it’s rarely some calm, calculated move. It almost never stays just one hit, either. I mentioned that subconscious "human gaze" thing before—think about it—would your eyes even stay steady? Yours definitely aren't, because you're just not making a convincing case.

The whole reward and punishment thing—paired with constant "guidance"—is basically just a recipe for creating an addict. It’s nothing more than training them like animals. I don't get why people think this is okay; kids shouldn't be conditioned—they should just be allowed to actually be kids.

Maybe it’s just me, but as I get older, every kid I meet keeps tearing down my old assumptions—you know, that whole idea that they're just these helpless, clueless little things. Honestly? Once you actually take a second to pay attention to them, it's wild how much they can blow their parents' minds... assuming the parents actually know how to listen.
The older I get, the more I realize that "ideal" future version of myself is basically just a carbon copy of my childhood self.

Man, they get so damn creative when you actually "let" them have some freedom—though let’s be real, I mostly just mean letting myself believe what my kid says.

How's a parent even supposed to tell if it's actually happening? I'm ready.?

Can you list all the parental... True. Right after the baby's born?

Look, regarding that example—one of the most annoying clichés out there is that whole "you'll understand when you have kids" line. It’s such a trap. Basically, someone who hasn't processed their own childhood trauma ends up passing that exact same trauma down to their kid—or swinging to the complete opposite extreme—just because they finally reached a point where they feel justified in losing their cool. That’s just what an aggressive parent looks like—someone who has totally snapped. Now, maybe they felt bad about it later. If they did, I really hope they actually sat down and talked it out with their child; that's the only way to actually bond. I just hope they didn't try to make excuses for themselves—they need to just own it and take full responsibility for what they did.

So yeah, it’s totally possible—and way more likely if he didn't even bother apologizing—that if her kid pulled the same stunt, she’d go with the exact same parenting style. Seems pretty fair, right?

Anger comes from one place, but worry? That's a different beast entirely. Being hurt and being worried usually look a lot different. It's not about her feeling slighted by what happened or blaming the action itself—it's just the natural instinct of a parent to be concerned.

I also think it makes sense for a parent to be open about their feelings, so the kid learns how to handle them too. The real question is: would that dad lose his mind if she did the same thing? Probably not. He doesn't have ownership over her.

Kids aren't property; they're people. They're just younger versions of us, and despite what most folks think—age doesn't give them any special status or inherent value. All it gives you is responsibility—and man, that is a massive, heavy responsibility.

It’s starting to feel like one of the biggest parts of being a parent (besides building trust and actually earning a kid's respect) is teaching them how to process emotions—how to feel things and manage them—rather than just teaching them how to bow down to authority.

Emotional manipulation is what stirs up the "evil" in someone. Personally, I feel like my job is to make sure that darkness stays asleep, which I can only do if I keep my own long-awakened inner demon in check. That's why I'm against physical punishment—with the tiny exception of maybe one swat without all the emotional baggage, and even then, only until they hit five.
Anything after that is just pure dominance.