Spanking and physical discipline: what are your thoughts?

Robert Reyes4 said:none, but this is total nonsense. Respecting someone doesn't mean letting them walk all over you.

But how exactly does one go about preventing the very things they refuse to permit when a child simply disregards every word, every piece of advice, and every repetition? (And let's be honest, children like that certainly exist—just look at the son of that one high-profile psychiatrist out of Chicago.)

Do please be specific... (vague excuses won't help here; anyone can claim they are exhausted, a fact that is painfully obvious to both you and me...)

There’s actually a reason why physical punishment went out of style. Honestly, I think some parents just started getting a little too much satisfaction out of it, if you ask me. At the end of the day, hitting a kid doesn't really teach them anything smart. If you're going to mess up a kid's head, you might as well do it through bad communication rather than a belt. 🍿

Robert Reyes4 said:I covered this at the start of the thread. No, I don't have my own, but I've babysat my sister's kid. Eight hours a day, every single day, for months at a time.
So, what's your take?

Do you actually think it's normal for a kid to just start wrecking an entire apartment?
Obviously, I'm not talking about toddlers.

well, when you're being a total jerk 😛

Henry Sullivan10 said:well, when you're being a total jerk 😛

Stan? Translation, please!

And you still haven't answered if you have kids.

feralranger said:But how exactly does one go about preventing the very things they refuse to permit when a child simply disregards every word, every piece of advice, and every repetition? (And let's be honest, children like that certainly exist—just look at the son of that one high-profile psychiatrist out of Chicago.)

Do please be specific... (vague excuses won't help here; anyone can claim they are exhausted, a fact that is painfully obvious to both you and me...)

Look, I don't know the specifics of what's going on. But do you really think hitting the kid would solve anything? Personally, I doubt it.
We need to figure out why he's acting this way first. Then we can actually find a solution.

"Quote"

Robert Reyes4 said:Look, I don't know the specifics of what's going on. But do you really think hitting the kid would solve anything? Personally, I doubt it.
We need to figure out why he's acting this way first. Then we can actually find a solution.

I’ll just keep my mouth shut for once, rather than... I find myself wondering.If you cannot provide a substantive answer to that question, then I fear your entire argument is nothing more than mere empty rhetoric, is it not? I am referring, of course, to the classic scenario involving a child—take, for instance, the offspring of a professional psychologist—who simply refuses to heed any counsel, advice, or repetitive instruction. You asserted that your philosophy does not equate to "letting them do whatever they want," but unless you can specify exactly how you intend to enforce those boundaries when verbal persuasion and constant repetition have utterly failed, your position remains a hollow platitude. It is remarkably easy to peddle empty abstractions, don't you agree?

feralranger said:"Quote"

I’ll just keep my mouth shut for once, rather than... I find myself wondering.If you cannot provide a substantive answer to that question, then I fear your entire argument is nothing more than mere empty rhetoric, is it not? I am referring, of course, to the classic scenario involving a child—take, for instance, the offspring of a professional psychologist—who simply refuses to heed any counsel, advice, or repetitive instruction. You asserted that your philosophy does not equate to "letting them do whatever they want," but unless you can specify exactly how you intend to enforce those boundaries when verbal persuasion and constant repetition have utterly failed, your position remains a hollow platitude. It is remarkably easy to peddle empty abstractions, don't you agree?

How am I supposed to give a concrete answer without more info? If the kid isn't a sociopath, there's bound to be some way to handle it. It's also possible the mother isn't being objective about her own child.
I'd probably suggest the kid talk to a third party.
If one method isn't working, you try something else.

But, I did ask if you think physical punishment would help in that scenario.

Watching that video at the start of this thread, I can't help but notice how some moms try to "explain" the whole stranger danger thing to their kids... it’s all just sort of vague, dismissive, and honestly, pretty useless. When we're talking about things that could actually be life-threatening, we need to approach the conversation differently—we have to frame it as something TRULY dangerous and serious. Whether it's sticking a finger in an outlet, mixing water with electricity, wandering off with a stranger, or darting across a busy street... the way we deliver these lessons (our facial expressions, our tone, the grimaces, describing the actual consequences, even acting out being scared, etc.) matters immensely. It's how the child learns to associate fear WITH the action itself, rather than just fearing US because they think they're going to get grounded or spanked.

Robert Reyes4 said:How am I supposed to give a concrete answer without more info? If the kid isn't a sociopath, there's bound to be some way to handle it. It's also possible the mother isn't being objective about her own child.
I'd probably suggest the kid talk to a third party.
If one method isn't working, you try something else.

But, I did ask if you think physical punishment would help in that scenario.

Well, she claims she has already attempted that route—she has colleagues in the same profession, so she feels quite comfortable with it. (Though, let's face it, any warning she gives falls on deaf ears, because the child knows they can just ignore her and get away with whatever they want, viewing her words as mere background noise.)

You mentioned that "allowing everything isn't the answer," but you failed to explain how one actually prevents the things they don't want to allow, which leaves your statement feeling somewhat hollow. Do you follow my drift? That is precisely where the issue lies.

feralranger said:"Quote"

I’ll just keep my mouth shut for once, rather than... I find myself wondering.If you cannot provide a substantive answer to that question, then I fear your entire argument is nothing more than mere empty rhetoric, is it not? I am referring, of course, to the classic scenario involving a child—take, for instance, the offspring of a professional psychologist—who simply refuses to heed any counsel, advice, or repetitive instruction. You asserted that your philosophy does not equate to "letting them do whatever they want," but unless you can specify exactly how you intend to enforce those boundaries when verbal persuasion and constant repetition have utterly failed, your position remains a hollow platitude. It is remarkably easy to peddle empty abstractions, don't you agree?

1. Physically removing the child from the situation/person/action—basically, picking them up and moving them away from whatever they're trying to smash or hit. Then, you have a real talk about what happened and why afterward. And I mean a serious conversation—not just a quick two-minute chat before handing them chocolate and turning on Disney+.

2. Distraction—getting the kid interested in something else to redirect their attention. Honestly, this works wonders in so many situations!

3. Truly getting to know your kid—spending actual quality time playing and talking with them (instead of just scrolling through Facebook, which seems to be what a lot of moms do these days...😠) so you can figure out what triggers certain behaviors. There are almost always patterns in how kids act, and if you pay attention, you can predict and prevent them before they even start.

feralranger said:

Robert Reyes4 As expressed by feralranger:
It is simply because they neglected them from the very beginning. Once you fail to lay down a solid foundation right out of the gate, trying to patch things up later becomes an uphill battle that most people aren't prepared for.
I am inclined to believe that the most vital element is...
A proper diet should serve as a catalyst for developing self-discipline and a newfound respect for others; however, one simply cannot achieve such lofty virtues through the blunt instrument of punishment.

It isn't always that simple, nor does there exist some sort of universal "magic formula" for these situations. I recall a kid who attended school with my son; he was quite frankly the most relentless bully in his entire grade. The kicker? His mother was a professional psychologist specializing specifically in child development! She raised him strictly "by the book," following every psychological principle to the letter, yet somehow, her little boy still turned out to be a nightmare for everyone else.

On the other hand, one of my close friends—my maid of honor from years ago—certainly believed in the old-school method of discipline, relying heavily on a firm hand to keep her three children in line. And yet, looking at them now, they turned out to be the absolute picture of propriety; we're talking top-tier manners, elite private schooling, Ivy League degrees, the whole nine yards. They’ve never once stepped an inch out of line or caused a moment of scandal.

We raised our children without ever resorting to corporal punishment, yet it is becoming increasingly apparent that her offspring are navigating life with far greater ease and success than ours ever did.

One shouldn't fall into the trap of assuming that your particular experience serves as some sort of universal blueprint or a definitive "how-to" guide for everyone else. There are countless examples out there that prove otherwise.

Look, she could be a world-class psychologist with a dozen PhDs, but if a child isn't getting that emotional fulfillment—especially during those crucial first three years—it doesn't matter. It's been proven time and again: kids who bully others are usually just emotionally neglected. At the end of the day, they're just unhappy kids trying to boost their own sense of self by exerting power over everyone else.

George Davis6 said:Look, she could be a world-class psychologist with a dozen PhDs, but if a child isn't getting that emotional fulfillment—especially during those crucial first three years—it doesn't matter. It's been proven time and again: kids who bully others are usually just emotionally neglected. At the end of the day, they're just unhappy kids trying to boost their own sense of self by exerting power over everyone else.

But the issue here wasn't abuse; quite the opposite, actually. Everything was explained to him with endless dialogue instead of discipline—as I've already noted, she followed the parenting manuals to the letter. And yet, the little guy turned out to be a total bully.

On the flip side, my close friend—my godmother, really—raised her three kids with a firm hand and the occasional swat on the backside, and frankly, they turned out so well-adjusted that you couldn't find a single thing to criticize about them unless you were looking for trouble with a magnifying glass...

George Davis6 said:1. Physically removing the child from the situation/person/action—basically, picking them up and moving them away from whatever they're trying to smash or hit. Then, you have a real talk about what happened and why afterward. And I mean a serious conversation—not just a quick two-minute chat before handing them chocolate and turning on Disney+.

2. Distraction—getting the kid interested in something else to redirect their attention. Honestly, this works wonders in so many situations!

3. Truly getting to know your kid—spending actual quality time playing and talking with them (instead of just scrolling through Facebook, which seems to be what a lot of moms do these days...😠) so you can figure out what triggers certain behaviors. There are almost always patterns in how kids act, and if you pay attention, you can predict and prevent them before they even start.

It’s futile; he’ll just come crawling back. And honestly, you aren't going to be able to tie him down.

George Davis6 As the saying goes:
Finding a way to distract a child by pivoting their interest toward something entirely different—well, I have found that this tactic works remarkably well in a staggering number of situations.

Zero points in the long run—everything works if you only care about the short term. Do you honestly believe that’s some groundbreaking concept she hasn't already mastered?

I find myself staring at this particular statement, and I cannot help but feel a profound sense of exhaustion at its sheer absurdity. It is truly remarkable how we continue to circle the same drain, over and over again, without ever actually making any progress toward a sensible conclusion. One might almost call it a Herculean task just to maintain a shred of sanity while navigating these repetitive cycles, though even that seems like an overly generous description of our current predicament.

George Davis6 said:1. Physically removing the child from the situation/person/action—basically, picking them up and moving them away from whatever they're trying to smash or hit. Then, you have a real talk about what happened and why afterward. And I mean a serious conversation—not just a quick two-minute chat before handing them chocolate and turning on Disney+.

2. Distraction—getting the kid interested in something else to redirect their attention. Honestly, this works wonders in so many situations!

3. Truly getting to know your kid—spending actual quality time playing and talking with them (instead of just scrolling through Facebook, which seems to be what a lot of moms do these days...😠) so you can figure out what triggers certain behaviors. There are almost always patterns in how kids act, and if you pay attention, you can predict and prevent them before they even start.

Do you honestly believe she’s oblivious to what he’s saying? Please. The woman is a professional psychologist; she’s spent her entire career studying the human mind, yet she’s essentially centered her whole existence around her only child. She hasn't had much else going on in her life besides him. And despite all that expertise, the boy has turned into such a notorious bully that his entire school district knows him by name.

feralranger said:It’s futile; he’ll just come crawling back. And honestly, you aren't going to be able to tie him down.

George Davis6 As the saying goes:
Finding a way to distract a child by pivoting their interest toward something entirely different—well, I have found that this tactic works remarkably well in a staggering number of situations.

Zero points in the long run—everything works if you only care about the short term. Do you honestly believe that’s some groundbreaking concept she hasn't already mastered?

I find myself staring at this particular statement, and I cannot help but feel a profound sense of exhaustion at its sheer absurdity. It is truly remarkable how we continue to circle the same drain, over and over again, without ever actually making any progress toward a sensible conclusion. One might almost call it a Herculean task just to maintain a shred of sanity while navigating these repetitive cycles, though even that seems like an overly generous description of our current predicament.

Do you honestly believe she’s oblivious to what he’s saying? Please. The woman is a professional psychologist; she’s spent her entire career studying the human mind, yet she’s essentially centered her whole existence around her only child. She hasn't had much else going on in her life besides him. And despite all that expertise, the boy has turned into such a notorious bully that his entire school district knows him by name.

But how can you say for sure how much she actually loved him?

Like I said before—bullies are usually just unhappy kids deep down. Period. I don't think there's anything else left to discuss here.

George Davis6 said:But how can you say for sure how much she actually loved him?

Like I said before—bullies are usually just unhappy kids deep down. Period. I don't think there's anything else left to discuss here.

Well, I happen to possess far more insight than you do, considering I actually know the kid and his mother personally. You are quite literally just grasping at straws here.

I have even better insight when it comes to my godchildren, who were raised with a much firmer hand—traditional discipline, if you will—and they all turned out to be remarkably well-adjusted individuals. This stands in stark contrast to this bully of hers, who has been raised strictly according to the latest trends in modern psychology.

I simply cannot bring myself to lie to you just to satisfy your preconceived notions, nor will I twist the reality of what I have witnessed with my own two eyes.

Look, I’m not just making things up out of thin air here—I’m basing this on what I’ve gathered from reading actual professional literature and seeing it play out countless times in real life. There are clear reasons why kids turn into bullies, even if you’re dead set on arguing otherwise. Besides, did she even go out and get a formal psychiatric evaluation for her?
I’m going to pass on commenting on that second example. No matter what I say, you'll probably just insist those kids are perfect little angels.

George Davis6 said:Look, I’m not just making things up out of thin air here—I’m basing this on what I’ve gathered from reading actual professional literature and seeing it play out countless times in real life. There are clear reasons why kids turn into bullies, even if you’re dead set on arguing otherwise. Besides, did she even go out and get a formal psychiatric evaluation for her?
I’m going to pass on commenting on that second example. No matter what I say, you'll probably just insist those kids are perfect little angels.

Well, I simply refuse to lie to you or indulge your various prejudices. She has certainly been through the ringer with him... and regarding those kids from the godparents' side, I certainly never claimed they were 'perfect.' Nobody is perfect, and that was hardly my intended point... I am not merely guessing blindly like some amateur.

I have stated my position clearly, and you are more than welcome to re-read it; however, your tendency to add extra details, misinterpret my words, or project motives onto me does not constitute a valid argument in a debate, does it?

Through the woods and down the road 😁😁

Something small is definitely off here—I'm certain of it. Don't you think?

Physical punishment leaves lasting scars. ALWAYS. And look, this isn't me trying to "spin" the argument or whatever you claim I'm doing—these are just straight-up facts. I even included a link to a study covering over 160,000 kids, though I'm guessing you didn't even bother to click it.

George Davis6 said:Through the woods and down the road 😁😁

Something small is definitely off here—I'm certain of it. Don't you think?

Physical punishment leaves lasting scars. ALWAYS. And look, this isn't me trying to "spin" the argument or whatever you claim I'm doing—these are just straight-up facts. I even included a link to a study covering over 160,000 kids, though I'm guessing you didn't even bother to click it.

And where, precisely, does it state that it "always" leaves consequences? A statistical correlation, even if one exists, is hardly sufficient grounds for such a sweeping generalization. As I have already pointed out, in the specific case of my godchildren, there were absolutely no discernible negative effects from being disciplined with a spanking. Conversely, we have this one kid who was never once disciplined—raised by a professional psychologist, no less—who ended up becoming the most notorious bully in his entire school.

I went through all that hell, and honestly? The result is just as depressing as what you see with kids who have parents that fold at the first sign of trouble. I basically saw enemies everywhere inside my own house—it was like being under siege—so I figured if the streets were gonna be my real classroom since my folks couldn't put food on the table, then fine, let's go. And you know what? I actually turned out better than those spoiled brats with soft parents who could just slide their way into easy money through shady means. But man, that feeling of getting physically punished as a kid... it’s like being stuck in a cell with nothing but a guard staring you down, just counting the seconds until you can finally break free.