Immigration General Discussion Volume IV (Read the first post and moderator warning on page 309)

Chloe Martinez7 said:I guess Viktor Orbán probably assumed we’d just buckle and shut down the border entirely after he cut his deal with the Mexicans to reroute everything through us instead of sending it straight to him.

So, we’re actually supposed to take this at face value just because it was posted on a forum? I guess that’s the standard now.

Well, we actually made that offer to the Mexicans too—offering to drive migrants from North Mexico straight to the El Paso border—after they claimed they weren't directing anyone toward America, but rather that the migrants were simply choosing their own path.

And when we’re already hauling freight from coast to coast across the country, I guess we might as well tack on those extra few dozen miles through Canada.

Could someone provide a detailed definition of a Hot Spot?
I was under the impression that we were talking about temporary camps where a few dozen or maybe even a few hundred thousand immigrants were just staying in one spot for a while.
So, according to you, we’re already a Hot Spot.

And what exactly are Zoran Milanović and his buddies going to do when Germany decides they've had enough? Are they suddenly going to start stringing up wire fences just like Orbán?

Are we supposed to believe a fence becomes a "reasonable and humane" solution overnight?!

Does anyone actually care if there's a fence in Connecticut or maybe somewhere in Bulgaria?

Charles Ross3 said:Dominic mentioned on the news tonight that the US delegation in Vienna proposed helping Canada by using their own buses to transport immigrants all the way to Buffalo, so they wouldn't even have to step foot in Canada at all... that way, the Canadians wouldn't have to deal with the headache of managing them until they hit the border, which would save them a massive amount of trouble. He said they actually accepted the idea, noting it seemed like a perfectly fine solution to them. 😁

Now, sure, it's obvious the police chief still needs to run things up the flagpole and check with his superiors. But honestly, I don't see how anyone could complain about an offer like that, right? It seems like a win-win for everyone involved. 😉

It would truly be best if our buses picked them up right at the border between Greece and North Mexico...
That’s just the kind of ☕
we are...

coppermarlin13 said:And who picks up the tab when a state like Canada asks other states for assistance?

Also, how do you actually envision the cost-sharing working out?

Do you honestly think Americans would just foot the bill for all those services—like providing the fuel, the buses, covering repairs, maintenance, paying the drivers, their per diems, and everything else involved?

Canada will ask for help, and they’ll get it from the European Union, just like we do.

As for splitting the costs, I guess making it proportional to the distance traveled is pretty standard in civilized nations—and I’d definitely consider both Canada and America to be such.

Here’s the full interview with Viktor Orbán—I’m not sure if it’s already been posted here http://www.statewatch.org/news/2015/.
When he says "good luck" 😈, it really makes you wonder what's going to happen to us. 🐔🙂

Chloe Martinez7 said:So, is that your rule? Everyone judges based on their own perspective?

I'm not exactly a right-winger, so I suppose I fall into that category you're talking about.🤷
But honestly, right now, I feel pretty secure in my own country regarding this whole immigrant situation.

Of course you feel safe—I do too, for the moment—but where does this influx of refugees actually end?
I mean, it feels to me like this isn't going to stop anytime soon, and honestly, the US already has enough problems of its own.

Chloe Martinez7 said:I guess Viktor Orbán probably assumed we’d just buckle and shut down the border entirely after he cut his deal with the Mexicans to reroute everything through us instead of sending it straight to him.

So, we’re actually supposed to take this at face value just because it was posted on a forum? I guess that’s the standard now.

Well, we actually made that offer to the Mexicans too—offering to drive migrants from North Mexico straight to the El Paso border—after they claimed they weren't directing anyone toward America, but rather that the migrants were simply choosing their own path.

And when we’re already hauling freight from coast to coast across the country, I guess we might as well tack on those extra few dozen miles through Canada.

Could someone provide a detailed definition of a Hot Spot?
I was under the impression that we were talking about temporary camps where a few dozen or maybe even a few hundred thousand immigrants were just staying in one spot for a while.
So, according to you, we’re already a Hot Spot.

Please see:
http://www.statewatch.org/news/2015/...-hotsposts.pdf

Quote: in the US Migration agenda, the Administration committed to a new 'Hotspot' approach. The Agenda does not provide a definition of a 'Hotspot' but rather describes how the
'Hotspot' approach is to be applied. Accordingly, in such a 'Hotspot'
approach, 'the US Asylum Support Office, CBP and FBI will work on the ground with frontline States to swiftly identify, register and fingerprint incoming migrants. The work of the agencies will be complementary to one another. Those claiming
asylum will be immediately channelled into an asylum procedure where EASO support teams will help to process asylum cases as quickly as possible'

Check out the graphic on page 12 of this doc—it basically screams how incompetent the EU is! Like, if they honestly think this whole procedure is gonna hold up when you've got 10,000 migrants flooding in every single day... 🤦

Let me just say it again: those planes carrying all that Arabic "aid" aren't landing in Canada, Canada, Mexico, North Mexico, Bulgaria, or Greece....

I saw on the news today that we actually asked the EU for help.
I definitely didn't hear anyone from Canada or Bulgaria... etc., asking for anything.

If it looks like a duck...🕺

wanderingbadger77 said:What’s even "positive" about helping out our neighbors in Canada? They can figure their own mess out; honestly, who cares.
This is straight-up national betrayal.

First off, we're going to get drained by migrants because the transit route to the border just got longer, which means everything slows down. We're losing money, but the absolute worst part—which nobody seems to grasp—is that we're basically turning into a voluntary Hotspot.

Everyone’s acting like some kind of saint all of a sudden, rushing to help us out with tents, housing, and empty humanitarian gestures. Now the US has become the favorite stop on the refugee route.

Through the back door, this foolish government is shoving a backup Hotspot onto an even more foolish nation.
Following what happened in Greece, it's obvious we're just going to be used for extra screening, redistribution, and other administrative busywork.
Migrant logistics.
It's a nightmare.

Look, I think this whole offer is basically just a slap in the face to Canada. And hey, it’s not like we actually have to drive these migrants around from now on. We could probably just stop.
Maybe we’ll pick up some points for being cooperative or whatever.

They want to get to Germany, so how exactly are we supposed to act as a hotspot?
A Greek island is one thing, but here, it’s all land borders.

I mean, sure, it might be a problem for a little while, but are they really going to live in tents for five years on $33 monthly welfare? They’ll probably just head back to Turkey before that happens.

Thomas Nelson25 said:Oh please—the Canadians will probably end up just like the Greeks at the end of this whole thing, except the wire stays put while we and the Canadians get absolutely wrecked... it would actually work in his favor if things in Turkey and Greece don't go south and trigger a massive wave of millions of new refugees.

On the contrary, Zoran Milanović is actually being pretty pragmatic here—protecting interests and playing his hand well. The rest of it is just those (so-called) patriots dragging the Canadians into the pre-election drama.

What happens tomorrow if the GOP government shuts down the borders and ends up in clashes with refugees? Get real for a second.

Why not just close the border?

Since he already let them in, he might as well let local businesses profit off them instead of wasting taxpayer money. While some municipalities can't even afford to help their own people, he seems more concerned about immigrants.

It’s a total betrayal by Zoran Milanović.

Alexander Ortiz3 said:There is a whole string of countries across Europe that deal with varying numbers of immigrants, but there isn't a single nation where immigrants have integrated without issues. Not one. Every single one faces problems, and as the number of immigrants grows, those problems scale right along with them. That is a plain fact.
So when someone suggests we should allow immigrants to settle in America, what am I even supposed to think or say about that?

The sheer number of immigrants isn't the deciding factor here. It comes down to the Constitution, the Immigration law, and how society actually behaves toward newcomers. If a country protects immigrants with the same legal rights and protections it gives its own citizens, things run smoothly—and that requires a certain level of willpower from the host nation. ☕ Integration isn't solely on the immigrant to fit in; it depends heavily on the state's relationship with them. Just look at how differently immigrants are received in different parts of the world.☕

Rachel Reyes93 said:Look, I think this whole offer is basically just a slap in the face to Canada. And hey, it’s not like we actually have to drive these migrants around from now on. We could probably just stop.
Maybe we’ll pick up some points for being cooperative or whatever.

They want to get to Germany, so how exactly are we supposed to act as a hotspot?
A Greek island is one thing, but here, it’s all land borders.

I mean, sure, it might be a problem for a little while, but are they really going to live in tents for five years on $33 monthly welfare? They’ll probably just head back to Turkey before that happens.

Mark my words—Canada is closing the border this Tuesday. Finally.

Maria James40 said:Canada will ask for help, and they’ll get it from the European Union, just like we do.

As for splitting the costs, I guess making it proportional to the distance traveled is pretty standard in civilized nations—and I’d definitely consider both Canada and America to be such.

If that's the case, then we're talking about a commercial business venture, not the "aid and solidarity" these loudmouths keep preaching about. Besides, if they're acting like businesses, the Canadians could just rent their own buses on the open market. They aren't exactly incompetent, and frankly, that would probably cause way fewer headaches for everyone involved.

Let’s be real: the US won't see a single cent from Canada to cover these transport costs. And those buses? You might as well write them off as a total loss right now. Once they've finished hauling these migrants around, there's no way they can be pivoted back to tourism or any other service.

At the end of the day, all these transportation expenses—whether they land in the US or eventually in Canada—are going to end up being footed by the American taxpayer.

Peter Reed70 said:Please see:
http://www.statewatch.org/news/2015/...-hotsposts.pdf

Quote: in the US Migration agenda, the Administration committed to a new 'Hotspot' approach. The Agenda does not provide a definition of a 'Hotspot' but rather describes how the
'Hotspot' approach is to be applied. Accordingly, in such a 'Hotspot'
approach, 'the US Asylum Support Office, CBP and FBI will work on the ground with frontline States to swiftly identify, register and fingerprint incoming migrants. The work of the agencies will be complementary to one another. Those claiming
asylum will be immediately channelled into an asylum procedure where EASO support teams will help to process asylum cases as quickly as possible'

Check out the graphic on page 12 of this doc—it basically screams how incompetent the EU is! Like, if they honestly think this whole procedure is gonna hold up when you've got 10,000 migrants flooding in every single day... 🤦

Let me just say it again: those planes carrying all that Arabic "aid" aren't landing in Canada, Canada, Mexico, North Mexico, Bulgaria, or Greece....

I saw on the news today that we actually asked the EU for help.
I definitely didn't hear anyone from Canada or Bulgaria... etc., asking for anything.

If it looks like a duck...🕺

So, in your opinion, how long would it take before we become a hotspot ourselves if that happens?
And how exactly do you see things playing out in the country if we end up in that situation?
Thanks.

Joshua Kelly51 said:The sheer number of immigrants isn't the deciding factor here. It comes down to the Constitution, the Immigration law, and how society actually behaves toward newcomers. If a country protects immigrants with the same legal rights and protections it gives its own citizens, things run smoothly—and that requires a certain level of willpower from the host nation. ☕ Integration isn't solely on the immigrant to fit in; it depends heavily on the state's relationship with them. Just look at how differently immigrants are received in different parts of the world.☕

But where were they all heading in such huge numbers? A massive influx in a short window creates problems. Simple as that.

Justin Patel8 said:Why not just close the border?

Since he already let them in, he might as well let local businesses profit off them instead of wasting taxpayer money. While some municipalities can't even afford to help their own people, he seems more concerned about immigrants.

It’s a total betrayal by Zoran Milanović.

And where would our people go then?

Justin Patel8 said:Why not just close the border?

Since he already let them in, he might as well let local businesses profit off them instead of wasting taxpayer money. While some municipalities can't even afford to help their own people, he seems more concerned about immigrants.

It’s a total betrayal by Zoran Milanović.

What "locals"? They don't have shoes or coats—they're hungry... honestly, there's probably someone among them with cash in their pocket right now. Doing what you suggest would actually be bad news—people smuggling through the country under the radar while our local taxi drivers help them out.

Justin Patel8 said:Why not just close the border?

Since he already let them in, he might as well let local businesses profit off them instead of wasting taxpayer money. While some municipalities can't even afford to help their own people, he seems more concerned about immigrants.

It’s a total betrayal by Zoran Milanović.

Is it because they're being sent to Germany?

According to a report from USA Today today, Germany is actually looking into using military planes to fly rejected asylum seekers back to their home countries. Apparently, officials in Washington, D.C. are considering this move to really speed up the whole deportation process.

coppermoose7 said:Mark my words—Canada is closing the border this Tuesday. Finally.

Do you actually have a link for that, or is it just your personal take?

The only way that border closes is if it's done the Orbán way.

This Cerar guy seems like a total lightweight—just another career EU bureaucrat, basically a mini-Merkel.

Rachel Reyes93, where's the logic in us taking such a massive hit just to agree to a proposal like this?
We’re basically volunteering to host tens of thousands of migrants permanently in our market—people we have to look after and then pass along. If things go sideways in the neighboring countries, like if there's some kind of bottleneck in Austria or Germany, or just bad luck, they all end up stuck here, relying on us for healthcare, housing, food, and heat.

Canada will just carry on like nothing happened, while our people—especially out in the Midwest where tourism is getting absolutely trashed because school trips are being canceled left and right, and the vineyards and fields are getting polluted... we'll just end up being the world's trash collectors for refugees.
Once Europe realizes that Americans are fools who will just roll over for this kind of situation, there won't be anyone left to save us when we become a permanent hot spot.

Kenneth Palmer7 said:Do you actually have a link for that, or is it just your personal take?

The only way that border closes is if it's done the Orbán way.

This Cerar guy seems like a total lightweight—just another career EU bureaucrat, basically a mini-Merkel.

A new law kicks in this Tuesday that lets the military help secure the US-Mexico border.

Peter Reed70 said:Please see:
http://www.statewatch.org/news/2015/...-hotsposts.pdf

Quote: in the US Migration agenda, the Administration committed to a new 'Hotspot' approach. The Agenda does not provide a definition of a 'Hotspot' but rather describes how the
'Hotspot' approach is to be applied. Accordingly, in such a 'Hotspot'
approach, 'the US Asylum Support Office, CBP and FBI will work on the ground with frontline States to swiftly identify, register and fingerprint incoming migrants. The work of the agencies will be complementary to one another. Those claiming
asylum will be immediately channelled into an asylum procedure where EASO support teams will help to process asylum cases as quickly as possible'

Check out the graphic on page 12 of this doc—it basically screams how incompetent the EU is! Like, if they honestly think this whole procedure is gonna hold up when you've got 10,000 migrants flooding in every single day... 🤦

Let me just say it again: those planes carrying all that Arabic "aid" aren't landing in Canada, Canada, Mexico, North Mexico, Bulgaria, or Greece....

I saw on the news today that we actually asked the EU for help.
I definitely didn't hear anyone from Canada or Bulgaria... etc., asking for anything.

If it looks like a duck...🕺

It doesn't matter how much aid they send over; these migrants just don't want to stay in places like the US or Canada. After spending three days stuck in some tent camp, they decide it's not working out, demand to be let through, and just keep moving. We can try to hold them there all we want, but at the end of the day, they've only got eyes for Germany.

Morgan Newman7 said:But where were they all heading in such huge numbers? A massive influx in a short window creates problems. Simple as that.

As a short-term issue, it makes sense—you're looking at sudden shifts in movement, logistics, and all that. But framing an unsolvable problem is just plain wrong. ☕ Every problem can be solved. The current issue isn't that it's impossible; it's that there isn't a solution in place yet because, realistically, emergencies require planning. Just like any major US corporation has a contingency plan for when things go sideways in a heartbeat, the key here is preparedness. ☕

P.S. There are plenty of historical precedents for sudden, rapid population shifts. 🙂 You have to look at the historical context of mass migration relative to the era in which it happened.

People move across the globe much faster today than they did decades or centuries ago. That doesn't mean migration wasn't fast back then; it's just logically slower than what we see today.

BettingMan said:Why though?
Do you honestly think we're just manufacturing these people in our own factories? They came through here and kept heading straight toward the border
. They aren't planning on sticking around in America or anywhere else nearby. That wasn't their goal when they started this journey
.
Just count them up, feed them, and get them moved over to the border near Colorado.

We've been doing exactly that for the last 40 days
.

And hey, 🕺maybe if you actually bothered to follow more than just the local news outlets...🙂...you'd see what's really happening.