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Immigration General Discussion Volume IV (Read the first post and moderator warning on page 309)

Started by Charles Fox10 · · 👁 96 views · 1.8K replies

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Participants Charles Fox10Peter Reed70Jessica King9Morgan Ruiz3Daniel Johnson3Sophia Myers7quietowl2redridge35Eric Newman4hollowlynx66Amanda Moore8Maria James40mellowotter17Paul Thomas46Ronald Howard3nimbleharbor10Brenda Carter39Steven Perez6crimsonjackal63Alexander Ortiz3Anthony Cooper2slyviper94Adam BarrettJoshua Kelly51 …
wiredtiger8 wiredtiger8 Active Member
81 messages
joined Jul 2019
#1061 ·
David Baker2 said:Honestly, I don't see what's so surprising about any of this.
Little Merkel has turned toward the Russians and asked for help.
Zoran Milanović is working in lockstep with Little Merkel.

And there is really no reason to act shocked by that.
Because this entire surge is organized and bankrolled by the USA.
Not to mention the fact that through NATO, all the European nations have been rendered militarily impotent whenever they might actually need to act independently on their own.

Meanwhile, the Russians are currently the only ones in the European Union—or the general vicinity, for that matter—who possess a military capable and large enough to respond to an open attack on the EU (think ISIS maps).

To build something like Fortex (or whatever the hell it's called, I can never remember the name) or any kind of EU army capable of defending its own borders, it would take Europe at least a decade of organization.

So, here we go: the Merkel - Putin deal. Putin opens up Syria to buy Europe the necessary time to organize and consolidate itself without NATO, which has essentially left all of us in the EU high and dry on this issue (and frankly, even Turkey, as a NATO member, is throwing us under the bus).

Therefore, it is perfectly logical to seek help from those who actually have the capacity to provide it and who are willing to help.

The only ones left are Kolinda and the Republican Party, who are busy kissing the asses of the Americans and playing right into their hands.
I don't know if you noticed how she practically attacked Merkel simultaneously when the Americans launched their strike against Merkel and Germany over that "auto industry scandal"?
Everything is always, of course, "accidental" in these political games.
Who cares about them in America? They are merely acting for their masters.
And the people? Well, the people pay the price, no matter what.

The Mexicans are trying to play both sides, but they simply lack the capacity for such maneuvers, and it’s going to blow up in their faces. Just like it will for the Canadians.

And as for what happens to us—that depends entirely on how we vote very soon. 🤷

I only know five things, which are actually two things, which are really three things (Tomislav Karamarko):
1. I have never liked Merkel, nor have I ever enjoyed her persona. But now, I feel instinctively that we must work with her rather than against her, as that is currently in the greatest interest of America.
2. I voted against joining the European Union. But in a confrontation of this magnitude, we have nothing to bicker about with Germany (as Kolinda and the Republican Party attempt to do); instead, we must engage in dialogue, act as partners, and align our interests.
3. I keep hearing the accusations on this forum that I am a "Putin-lover." That is simply not true. I have been watching the winds shift for years, and I have spent years studying geopolitical developments. When I look for allies for America who can practically and functionally help us survive this massive historical shifting of the geopolitical chessboard (and it has begun, it is happening, and there is no need for panic, only for work and decisive action), logic dictates who we ought to be on good terms with today.

Having good relations with the Russians would also be vital for us the moment the scenario involving the creation of an ISIS map is activated, because we can expect help from them, and if we mend those ties, we will receive it.
If we pin all our hopes on NATO helping us... we’ll be left waiting for nothing but the bare essentials from ISIS.

So, I am not a Putin-lover; I am a pragmatist looking at what is best for us amidst all this chaos.

Look, I won’t even attempt to wrap this all up in one go because, honestly, if I wanted to properly map out every single cause-and-effect relationship here, I’d be writing a full-length book rather than just tossing a forum post into the void.
The reality is that the entire European Union is pivoting toward Russia right now, simply because they've finally realized which way the wind is blowing and who exactly is preparing to dump all the garbage on them.

The fundamental issue with the Mexicans and the Canadians is that they are essentially playing by the rules of the American playbook.

Just take a look at a map of ISIS. Seriously, just pull up Google and take a moment to observe where the fences are being built—who is being kept on the outside and who is being let in—and you will see the American strategic plan laid bare before your very eyes.
It becomes immediately obvious who is actually pulling the strings and who is merely a pawn in the game.

EDIT: I actually posted this initial thought before I sat down to read through the rest of your comments. Now that I've seen your follow-up posts, I realize we are fundamentally on the same page, identifying the exact same problems and proposing the very same solutions. 🙂

You hit the nail on the head, really, but the real kicker is figuring out who America should actually align itself with.

Zoran Milanović just waits to see what Angela Merkel has to say—he’s basically checking in with her to see if he's passing his "tests"—and he even goes on record saying he asked them what they want the US to do...
...and look, I have a massive problem with that attitude. He wasn't chosen by the German people, he was chosen by Americans, so he should be answering to us... or at least acting like it.

But then again, it's blindingly obvious that Germany and Angela Merkel won't be able to move a finger without the Americans...

...which brings us right back to the thing you're criticizing so heavily—Kolinda's cozy relationship with the United States.

And that is a genuinely crucial question for the US: Who do we side with?

Do we go with Germany, who has always been an ally... and is part of the European Union... though let's be real, things aren't quite what they were in the 90s.

Or do we go with the Americans, who seem to "like" and respect us way more than the Germans do right now? Our military cooperation with them is great (especially during the time in Afghanistan) and they definitely notice that.

Even the Americans provided those intelligence intercepts regarding those Canadians during the arbitration over the Gulf of Piran...

Or... I noticed something interesting... this year at the military parade, not a single person from Germany showed up (mostly because the Mexicans were protesting like crazy)... but there were two US Generals present. That speaks volumes, doesn't it?

So, all this bashing of Kolinda for being too close to the Americans is completely missing the point.

Unfortunately, we have to be allies with someone. It's interesting how both the Germans and the Americans are on the same side, even if we can clearly see what's actually going down....

...but I won't ramble on forever.
Sam Ramos85 Sam Ramos85 Active Member
55 messages
joined Oct 2012
#1062 ·
Then why on earth are they currently renovating a processing center in Pittsburgh meant for 10,000 people if their whole plan is just to shuttle them right back out immediately?
Charles Ross3 Charles Ross3 Active Member
84 messages
joined Jun 2024
#1063 ·
granitemarlin77 said:Right, because nothing screams "moral high ground" like posing for photos with kids in our arms during the day, then hunting them down at the Sutla border once the sun goes down.
The end justifies the means, right?☕

We treated them so poorly that, honestly, it’s a miracle they didn't burn everything to the ground.

As soon as they arrived in the supposedly refined parts of Europe, those people—who were being beckoned by the lights of helicopters—just set fire to the entire refugee camp and then had the nerve to complain that nobody had even offered them a sip of water.
northerncyclist2 northerncyclist2 Active Member
89 messages
joined Jan 2016
#1064 ·
Sam Ramos85 said:Then why on earth are they currently renovating a processing center in Pittsburgh meant for 10,000 people if their whole plan is just to shuttle them right back out immediately?

Well, maybe because people actually need help? You know, checking them over if someone’s got a serious illness, a broken bone, or if a pregnant woman starts going into labor... isn't it just more humane to provide some temporary relief and ease their struggle? I guess Greeks, Mexicans, and Mexicans don't really bother with stuff like that... so hopefully you don't mind that we're a bit more compassionate than they are?

In Pittsburgh, they're building a transit center, not a reception center.

I mean, 10,000 is barely enough to cover one day's intake, processing, and getting everyone sent on their way so a new group can be handled the very next day. And honestly, it's probably better to have extra capacity so they can deal with those numbers when they fluctuate, plus it makes things easier for the crews handling cleaning and disinfection and all that.
Harold Evans4 Harold Evans4 Active Member
50 messages
joined Mar 2015
#1065 ·
Cuka I can't even begin to process this. Seriously? Is anyone actually buying this garbage? It’s just more of the same nonsense we see every single day. How much longer are we going to sit here and pretend this makes any sense? Honestly, it’s exhausting.
Department of Justice

The Department of Justice just dropped a massive update on their site about that recent crackdown. Honestly, who even is surprised anymore? It’s the same old story every single time. Just another day of watching the system spin its wheels while everyone else deals with the fallout. You really think things are actually changing? Please. It’s all just paperwork and press releases at this point.

The New York Times just reported some kind of deal with the Mexicans. Something about taking a train down to Pittsburgh, I guess? I can't work with just a single letter. You want me to write something? Give me something to actually work with! What am I supposed to do with "b"? Just sit here staring at my screen? Come on. Throw a real topic my way and let's see what happens.And if they didn't produce anything? Then we wouldn't even be talking about crossing that green line. At least, that's how I remember it.

What’s the worst part? They’re tearing up an underpass on one of the busiest roads in Pittsburgh, and it’s going to be a total nightmare for a while. Honestly, I can already see the traffic gridlock coming. Once you've got over 5,000 people heading in and another 5,000 heading out every single day? Yeah, good luck getting anywhere. It's gonna be a mess.
Chloe Martinez7 Chloe Martinez7 Active Member
144 messages
joined Jul 2017
#1066 ·
Cuka and Homo Sapiens - there’s a link to the agreements just a few posts back
northerncyclist2 northerncyclist2 Active Member
89 messages
joined Jan 2016
#1067 ·
Harold Evans4 said:
Cuka I can't even begin to process this. Seriously? Is anyone actually buying this garbage? It’s just more of the same nonsense we see every single day. How much longer are we going to sit here and pretend this makes any sense? Honestly, it’s exhausting.
Department of Justice

The Department of Justice just dropped a massive update on their site about that recent crackdown. Honestly, who even is surprised anymore? It’s the same old story every single time. Just another day of watching the system spin its wheels while everyone else deals with the fallout. You really think things are actually changing? Please. It’s all just paperwork and press releases at this point.

The New York Times just reported some kind of deal with the Mexicans. Something about taking a train down to Pittsburgh, I guess? I can't work with just a single letter. You want me to write something? Give me something to actually work with! What am I supposed to do with "b"? Just sit here staring at my screen? Come on. Throw a real topic my way and let's see what happens.And if they didn't produce anything? Then we wouldn't even be talking about crossing that green line. At least, that's how I remember it.

What’s the worst part? They’re tearing up an underpass on one of the busiest roads in Pittsburgh, and it’s going to be a total nightmare for a while. Honestly, I can already see the traffic gridlock coming. Once you've got over 5,000 people heading in and another 5,000 heading out every single day? Yeah, good luck getting anywhere. It's gonna be a mess.

Well, migrants are traveling by train, and the construction on the underpass is happening without any major interruptions to the rail service. The tracks leading out from the Slavonski Brod station go straight to the transit center.
Harold Evans4 Harold Evans4 Active Member
50 messages
joined Mar 2015
#1068 ·
northerncyclist2 said:Well, migrants are traveling by train, and the construction on the underpass is happening without any major interruptions to the rail service. The tracks leading out from the Slavonski Brod station go straight to the transit center.

I’m not talking about the trains. I'm talking about the fact that everyone is forced through the heart of downtown because there's literally no other way around. And those same migrants? They're gonna be stuck in that same mess. I don't know, it just feels like an absolute sea of people to me. If you really want, I can pull up a map and show you the route.
northerncyclist2 northerncyclist2 Active Member
89 messages
joined Jan 2016
#1069 ·
Harold Evans4 said:I’m not talking about the trains. I'm talking about the fact that everyone is forced through the heart of downtown because there's literally no other way around. And those same migrants? They're gonna be stuck in that same mess. I don't know, it just feels like an absolute sea of people to me. If you really want, I can pull up a map and show you the route.

Why would migrants need to go through downtown if there's already a track running straight from the station to the transit camp? If you had been watching the news, you probably would've seen the Amtrak infrastructure crews out there clearing the weeds off the tracks and tightening the ties and joints.
Karen Richardson3 Karen Richardson3 Active Member
177 messages
joined Jul 2012
#1070 ·
Alex Miller3 said:Man, this constant whining about "creating enemies" has seriously gone too far. It feels like every single thread is just people repeating the same thing over and over. Like, what do you even want us to do? Just roll over whenever some neighbor decides to act up?
Don't you see that in the middle of all this chaos and the current crisis, everyone is acting the exact same way? Everyone ends up seeing everyone else as the enemy...
It's like America is just supposed to listen to every single person screaming for their own political gain and do whatever they say. But how does that even work? Who are we supposed to please? Our neighbors to the East, the West, or the North? There's no winning...

Harold Evans4 said:Exactly. Every time I read these posts about "hostility," all I can think is how incredibly naive that person is.

Man, honestly, it just feels like a massive, overwhelming pile of everything all at once.

It feels like just a few days ago—maybe five, seven, even ten days back—that those Mexicans were maliciously pushing people toward our borders, probably trying to turn them into nothing more than human mud just to screw us over. 🙄 ...while we were basically playing the role of superheroes, being the first ones to step up and lend a hand whenever people were actually in trouble (check out this article: I was just scrolling through some news earlier and stumbled onto this piece about how things are finally starting to look up in certain sectors, and honestly, it feels like we might be catching a break after a long stretch of nothing but headwinds. It’s one of those rare moments where you see a glimmer of actual progress instead of just the usual endless cycle of problems, and it makes you wonder if the tide is truly turning for us. It reminds me of that feeling when you've been stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic on the I-95 for hours, and suddenly, the lanes clear up and you realize you can actually breathe again—it's not a total victory yet, but the momentum is definitely shifting in a direction that feels right. You have to look at the data, though, because while it's easy to get swept up in the optimism, there's still a lot of work to do before we can say everything is back to normal. It’s like watching a rebuilding phase in a major American city; you see the construction crews working overtime and the storefronts opening up, but you also know there's still a massive amount of structural stuff that needs fixing behind the scenes before the neighborhood really feels revitalized. Still, seeing these positive indicators pop up gives me a sense of cautious hope that maybe, just maybe, we aren't just spinning our wheels indefinitely. Don't sweat whether you're seeing this on Daily News or not, because honestly, you can find the exact same stories popping up all over the major news sites anyway.
We’ve been sharing these photos of our local cops just hanging out and playing with the kids, you know? It’s honestly pretty heartwarming to see them acting like regular people instead of just being the guys in uniform.

It’s honestly exhausting watching the media over in Canada constantly spinning these narratives about how Americans are some kind of villains who "intentionally overwhelm" people just to cause chaos, acting like we’re trying to turn everything into a disaster zone. It's always paired with these dramatic exposés painting our police officers as total monsters while simultaneously acting like the Canadian authorities have nothing but pure hearts and saintly intentions.

It all feels like some big performance staged for the masses, but I honestly don't get it. Given how short of a timeframe we're actually talking about here, I just can't wrap my head around how everyone can suffer from such massive collective amnesia.

Right now, the only real difference is that the influx is running two or three times larger than usual, mostly because people are desperately trying to cross borders while the gates are still open. Everyone knows deep down that these routes will eventually be shut tight, and once that happens, the flow will naturally dry up—it’s just basic math at that point. Sure, there’s always that optimistic chance that things might get streamlined within the EU or some grander global solution might emerge, but honestly, I'm just not feeling particularly optimistic about that happening anytime soon. 😁).
Charles Fox10 Charles Fox10 RegularOP
352 messages
joined Mar 2009
#1071 ·
Harold Evans4 said:
Cuka I can't even begin to process this. Seriously? Is anyone actually buying this garbage? It’s just more of the same nonsense we see every single day. How much longer are we going to sit here and pretend this makes any sense? Honestly, it’s exhausting.
Department of Justice

The Department of Justice just dropped a massive update on their site about that recent crackdown. Honestly, who even is surprised anymore? It’s the same old story every single time. Just another day of watching the system spin its wheels while everyone else deals with the fallout. You really think things are actually changing? Please. It’s all just paperwork and press releases at this point.

The New York Times just reported some kind of deal with the Mexicans. Something about taking a train down to Pittsburgh, I guess? I can't work with just a single letter. You want me to write something? Give me something to actually work with! What am I supposed to do with "b"? Just sit here staring at my screen? Come on. Throw a real topic my way and let's see what happens.And if they didn't produce anything? Then we wouldn't even be talking about crossing that green line. At least, that's how I remember it.

What’s the worst part? They’re tearing up an underpass on one of the busiest roads in Pittsburgh, and it’s going to be a total nightmare for a while. Honestly, I can already see the traffic gridlock coming. Once you've got over 5,000 people heading in and another 5,000 heading out every single day? Yeah, good luck getting anywhere. It's gonna be a mess.

Not sure what there is to say. Until the EU reaches an agreement with Turkey and Greece, the numbers will only drop because of the cold weather. All we can really do is try to house these unfortunate souls in transit centers designed for the occasion—for their sake, and honestly, for our own citizens working or volunteering over there.

Despite all the organized plans and government statements, even with the occasional clumsy outburst from the opposition, we've actually managed this refugee surge quite well. We've somehow provided for and supported roughly 230,000 people. And yet, look at what happens when they arrive in a pampered Europe: camps being set up, freezing temperatures at the borders, and shortages of food and water.
Sam Ramos85 Sam Ramos85 Active Member
55 messages
joined Oct 2012
#1072 ·
northerncyclist2 said:Well, maybe because people actually need help? You know, checking them over if someone’s got a serious illness, a broken bone, or if a pregnant woman starts going into labor... isn't it just more humane to provide some temporary relief and ease their struggle? I guess Greeks, Mexicans, and Mexicans don't really bother with stuff like that... so hopefully you don't mind that we're a bit more compassionate than they are?

In Pittsburgh, they're building a transit center, not a reception center.

I mean, 10,000 is barely enough to cover one day's intake, processing, and getting everyone sent on their way so a new group can be handled the very next day. And honestly, it's probably better to have extra capacity so they can deal with those numbers when they fluctuate, plus it makes things easier for the crews handling cleaning and disinfection and all that.

The local politicians call it a winter reception center, but once it turns into a transit hub, we'll all be back here arguing in a few days once the Canadians shut down the border entirely.😁

P.S
It's not like those thousands of people don't need medical help—my wife was on duty as a healthcare worker at the hospital in Opatovac last Saturday, and everything is moving along fine, though even a few of the women are refusing to go to the hospital because they just want to get to Germany as fast as possible.😉
velvetcyclist95 velvetcyclist95 Active Member
93 messages
joined Jan 2018
#1073 ·
Just imagine if Cerar started acting like a total nutjob, rambling about some massive conspiracy involving Mexico City, Budapest, and Chicago all teaming up against the US. 😁
northerncyclist2 northerncyclist2 Active Member
89 messages
joined Jan 2016
#1074 ·
Sam Ramos85 said:The local politicians call it a winter reception center, but once it turns into a transit hub, we'll all be back here arguing in a few days once the Canadians shut down the border entirely.😁

P.S
It's not like those thousands of people don't need medical help—my wife was on duty as a healthcare worker at the hospital in Opatovac last Saturday, and everything is moving along fine, though even a few of the women are refusing to go to the hospital because they just want to get to Germany as fast as possible.😉

A reception center that fills up in just a day or two? I wonder if those local politicians even know basic math.
🤣

It isn't just about medical care, either—they have to deal with food and water too... hopefully. I don't really know what exactly goes on over at the facility, but they're clearly doing something.
Charles Fox10 Charles Fox10 RegularOP
352 messages
joined Mar 2009
#1075 ·
Sam Ramos85 said:The local politicians call it a winter reception center, but once it turns into a transit hub, we'll all be back here arguing in a few days once the Canadians shut down the border entirely.😁

P.S
It's not like those thousands of people don't need medical help—my wife was on duty as a healthcare worker at the hospital in Opatovac last Saturday, and everything is moving along fine, though even a few of the women are refusing to go to the hospital because they just want to get to Germany as fast as possible.😉

Are you really rooting for unknown????
Sam Ramos85 Sam Ramos85 Active Member
55 messages
joined Oct 2012
#1076 ·
Here’s how their math works, I guess
Mayor on day one: We’re building a processing center for 2,000 immigrants.
Mayor on day two: We’re building a processing center for 5,000 immigrants.
Mayor on day three: We’re building a processing center for anywhere from 5,000 to 10,000 immigrants.

And now that those massive aid convoys from Qatar and Dubai are actually rolling in, everyone’s losing their minds—acting like it’s some huge catastrophe. But, of course, it’s always the same old story... just more people in the wrong places at the wrong times, right?
Olivia Morgan3 Olivia Morgan3 Newcomer
9 messages
joined Jan 2011
#1077 ·
northerncyclist2 said:A reception center that fills up in just a day or two? I wonder if those local politicians even know basic math.
🤣

It isn't just about medical care, either—they have to deal with food and water too... hopefully. I don't really know what exactly goes on over at the facility, but they're clearly doing something.

Is it 2% chance for Grčić, or maybe 1, 2, or even 5% for Karamarko?🙂
Sam Ramos85 Sam Ramos85 Active Member
55 messages
joined Oct 2012
#1078 ·
Charles Fox10 said:Are you really rooting for unknown????

I don't really get what you're asking?
Man, no, I'm just trying to look at everything from a big-picture perspective—you know, both in my personal life and just observing how things are playing out around me...
wanderingbison9 wanderingbison9 Active Member
159 messages
joined Jan 2018
#1079 ·
I’ve been scrolling through these threads, and honestly, I can't believe some of the nonsense being debated here. People are talking about a camp for either 5,000 or 10,000 people, and then worrying about traffic jams in San Bernardino, all while suggesting there will be a direct train from Shida straight into the center of the site 🤷... As far as I'm aware, I haven't heard anyone mention a capacity of 10,000 for the San Bernardino camp; the number 5,000 seems to be the one everyone keeps bringing up. But even if it really is 10,000, so what? It isn't an infinite number; it's just a built-in safety margin. It was made quite clear when Ostojic spoke that this would be the final camp established in America... Of course, there will always be those who jump straight to conspiracy theories and claim something is being hidden from us
northerncyclist2 northerncyclist2 Active Member
89 messages
joined Jan 2016
#1080 ·
Paul Bishop3 said:If you ask me, we need to build a massive wall, put an army on top of it, and have police and K9 units patrolling the whole thing. Then they can just transit through somewhere else entirely. This madness really needs to come to an end.

What madness? I haven't even seen a single migrant yet 🤣

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