Immigration General Discussion Volume IV (Read the first post and moderator warning on page 309)

Harold Evans4 said:Exactly. People keep whining about "arguments" with neighbors, acting like we somehow ruined some great relationship. Give me a break. What "good relations"? If we were actually on good terms, our countries would have agreed to defend the borders much further south a year ago. At the end of the day, it all boils down to the fact that we, the Americans, and the people from Austria are all just looking out for our own skins, while politicians just use it to score points.
Anyway, nicely put in a short post. 👍

That bolded part needs to be hammered into people's heads a hundred times over until they finally get it through their thick skulls.

As it stands, there is absolutely nothing to discuss with the current American administration in power, because frankly, they are nothing more than a bunch of extremists.

The Americans will have to choose some more sensible individuals at the next election than the ones they picked this time, because with the current lot, any kind of rational conversation or meaningful agreement is clearly impossible.
They are still playing out cinematic delusions from twenty years ago, so there is simply no hope for assistance here.

I truly believe that those currently in power there do not represent the majority of Americans, and it is vital that we establish normal neighborly relations with them—that we stop the constant bickering and start cooperating for our mutual benefit and interest.
But unfortunately, as long as this specific group remains in power over there, it is a lost cause.
I would personally love to see someone knock that leader of theirs off his pedestal; it would be a massive service to the Americans first, and subsequently to us.

But it is what it is. We have to accept exactly who we are dealing with and carry ourselves accordingly, at least until a different administration comes in that we can actually hold a civilized conversation with. 🤷

Rebecca Martinez4 said:So, I guess according to this logic, Canada and Mexico are doing just fine, while America is somehow the bad guy. 🙏

Exactly.
The bad guy because of the highway.
Which they suddenly turn into a bargaining chip once things start closing down.

bluewalker6 said:Why isn't Joe Biden being a little more diplomatic toward Canada?

It’s simply too early to start picking fights.
As long as he's making his way through states like Missouri, there’s really no reason to stir up trouble just yet.

Besides, even Angela Merkel is sitting there scratching her head, wondering what the move should be and how to pull it off.

David Baker2 said:That bolded part needs to be hammered into people's heads a hundred times over until they finally get it through their thick skulls.

As it stands, there is absolutely nothing to discuss with the current American administration in power, because frankly, they are nothing more than a bunch of extremists.

The Americans will have to choose some more sensible individuals at the next election than the ones they picked this time, because with the current lot, any kind of rational conversation or meaningful agreement is clearly impossible.
They are still playing out cinematic delusions from twenty years ago, so there is simply no hope for assistance here.

I truly believe that those currently in power there do not represent the majority of Americans, and it is vital that we establish normal neighborly relations with them—that we stop the constant bickering and start cooperating for our mutual benefit and interest.
But unfortunately, as long as this specific group remains in power over there, it is a lost cause.
I would personally love to see someone knock that leader of theirs off his pedestal; it would be a massive service to the Americans first, and subsequently to us.

But it is what it is. We have to accept exactly who we are dealing with and carry ourselves accordingly, at least until a different administration comes in that we can actually hold a civilized conversation with. 🤷

You're totally out of the loop here. We're neighbors again... just regular folks living side-by-side.

– We have to cooperate because refugees will come and go, but neighbors stay. We need the best possible relations because we live right next to each other. We don't always have to agree or even like each other, but we have to work together. Good relations are essential for the security and interests of both nations, said Stevens.

I mean, sure, driving them straight from Shida to SB is probably great for them, but this whole thing is just way too much of a riddle for me to solve... the sailors probably know more than we do.

Robert Moore10 said:You're totally out of the loop here. We're neighbors again... just regular folks living side-by-side.

– We have to cooperate because refugees will come and go, but neighbors stay. We need the best possible relations because we live right next to each other. We don't always have to agree or even like each other, but we have to work together. Good relations are essential for the security and interests of both nations, said Stevens.

I mean, sure, driving them straight from Shida to SB is probably great for them, but this whole thing is just way too much of a riddle for me to solve... the sailors probably know more than we do.

we've been neighbors this entire time, forced or otherwise

wanderingbison9 said:How is it that *we* are the slippery ones? Isn't it actually the Canadians who seem to want things delivered only when they are "in the mood"? Besides, if it's true that the camp in St. Louis is designed for 10,000 people, then it's obvious they'll be staying there longer just to relieve the pressure on Canada... wouldn't it be truly shady if an Amtrak train went straight from Shida to the Canadian border? That would directly make things easier for Canada.

Oh yeah, we're just great, honestly makes me sick how "honest" we are.

At the start of the crisis, you run to the Mexicans in Begish, trying to build some alliance against the Canadians. Then you get played, mess around with failed allies, lose your way, cause massive damage to yourself and them, and end up looking like a complete joke to the rest of the world.
Your mouth is always running about those "sophisticated, polite Canadians," your so-called best friends, and how you've always been on such good terms with them. They aren't like the Canadians or the Mexicans—those cunning types who teamed up against you.

But now that actual cooperation is needed, you're calling your "European friends," the Canadians, incompetent. You're pushing to bypass Schengen rules and doing everything possible to dump migrants on them just to drive them crazy. I don't know why you won't just "play the game" a little, man.

Now you're back at square one, just with different players involved. Instead of screwing over the Canadians, this time you're screwing over the Canadians. You're doing well for once. Why? Who knows. We'll see.

Whatever, we'll wait until Sunday. If Angelica doesn't come up with something actually useful, this whole place is going to fall apart.

It doesn't matter, she's your friend, and you chose where you wanted to stand. Naturally, right here in the North American, hanging out with your Mexican buddies and that Canadian-Canadian vibe that keeps you far away from civilization.

gentlemoose57 said:You’re delusional if you think a lock actually stops a break-in. 99% of the locks and deadbolts used in the US can be bypassed in under thirty seconds. A lock just redirects thieves toward whoever has the weakest setup. If nobody had locks, theft wouldn't even exist anymore.

Right now, the US and Canada are like two identical bicycles parked in a lot. The Canadian bike is secured with a greasy little string, while ours isn't tied up at all. Just take a guess which thief (in this case, an illegal migrant) is going to pick to steal from. Does that mean the Canadian bike is "secure" against theft? Of course not. It’s just slightly more secure than the one next to it. If both were secured the exact same way, one would still end up stolen. Our biggest problem is that we don't have a neighborly bike that's less secure. Canada has its unsecured neighborly bike—which is us—and honestly, to a casual observer, that Canadian bike looks incredibly safe. Superficial observers might even cheer for the Canadian owner, calling them brilliant for securing their bike and praising them to the heavens. 🤦 The US doesn't have a bike like that. We have the Atlantic Ocean.

It’s purely a matter of police procedure. Basically, when the mob shows up, the police first give several verbal warnings, and only then do they move to various methods to restrain the crowd—using permanent or mobile barricades, pepper spray, batons, and so on.

The "mob" that the police usually deal with is the kind that, after getting hyped up for a bit, goes home, sits down in front of a TV with friends, and grabs a beer. Or they go home to their wives, kids, or elderly parents. They actually have something to lose. A mob that has nowhere to go and nothing to lose is something so fundamentally different that anyone trying to compare the two is a complete idiot.

Locks prevent 99% of break-ins; you actually have to learn the craft of thievery to bypass a decent lock—it's not something just any random person can do...

And no, the US and Canada aren't the same; since the Middle Ages through today, the differences are visible at every single turn.
And that's why it's Canadian and not some version of American.

wanderingbadger77 said:Oh yeah, we're just great, honestly makes me sick how "honest" we are.

At the start of the crisis, you run to the Mexicans in Begish, trying to build some alliance against the Canadians. Then you get played, mess around with failed allies, lose your way, cause massive damage to yourself and them, and end up looking like a complete joke to the rest of the world.
Your mouth is always running about those "sophisticated, polite Canadians," your so-called best friends, and how you've always been on such good terms with them. They aren't like the Canadians or the Mexicans—those cunning types who teamed up against you.

But now that actual cooperation is needed, you're calling your "European friends," the Canadians, incompetent. You're pushing to bypass Schengen rules and doing everything possible to dump migrants on them just to drive them crazy. I don't know why you won't just "play the game" a little, man.

Now you're back at square one, just with different players involved. Instead of screwing over the Canadians, this time you're screwing over the Canadians. You're doing well for once. Why? Who knows. We'll see.

Whatever, we'll wait until Sunday. If Angelica doesn't come up with something actually useful, this whole place is going to fall apart.

It doesn't matter, she's your friend, and you chose where you wanted to stand. Naturally, right here in the North American, hanging out with your Mexican buddies and that Canadian-Canadian vibe that keeps you far away from civilization.

Our whole idea of "integrity" pretty much boils down to avoiding becoming a hot spot, so I don't really buy all these political speeches about friends and enemies. It's all just adapting to the situation and trying to squeeze out whatever benefit you can for yourself. The only real goal is to avoid turning into a hot spot if at all possible.

Once this all settles down—who knows how long that'll take, maybe I'm being naive, but I'd like to think it will happen, even if it's not soon—things will eventually go back to normal.

Karen Doyle72 said:Man, seriously,
if there was any actual wisdom left in this country, our future wouldn't be tied up in these fake, twisted left-right political games—you know, those weird ideological mashups they cook up whenever the news cycle needs a distraction.
We’re so incredibly full of ourselves, thinking we’re actually making big choices, when in reality, we’re just tiny, insignificant sycophants sucking up to whoever holds the leash—whether it’s someone from the East or the West.

You hate what Kolinda Grabar-Kitarović picked, I hate what Zoran Milanović picked.
And honestly? Both are equally garbage.
Why?
Because instead of finding some common ground—instead of realizing that a smart player keeps both sides happy to stay fed—we just sit here tearing each other apart over absolutely nothing.

Nothing is ever offered to us; everything is just handed down as an order.

And yet, here we are, bickering about whether the East or the West is going to come out on top.
It doesn't even matter to us! We need to make sure we have both options sitting right there on the table, ready to go.

Why on earth would you think I’m ever backing Milanović?

The Democratic Party is a group that will never, in this lifetime, see my vote again.
Sure, I voted for them back in the late 90s and early 2000s. My mistake, I'll admit it. But I was young and incredibly naive back then.

Now, look, I am a leftist. And as I get older, I find myself becoming even more staunchly committed to those principles.
But the Democratic Party isn't a party that will ever earn my support as a leftist because they don't have anything to do with actual left-wing ideology.

My choice today—which is driven indirectly by my leftist views, but primarily by my sense of patriotism (even if apparently only Republicans are allowed to be patriots, which is ridiculous) and by the fact that I love this country and want what's best for it (because political leanings are secondary, if not tertiary, when you actually care about the land you live in—though that’s just something people argue about over beers)—is either:
the Libertarian Party or the Green Party.

However, I must say—and I say this truthfully—that Milanović has actually surprised me in a positive way.
For four years, I've felt nothing but pure disgust toward that entire crowd (don't go thinking I only despise the Republican Party), but over the last two months, he has acted like a true statesman and handled his business like a leader.
And for that, I tip my hat to him. To both him and Ostojić for how they've stepped up so far.

As for everything before that? I couldn't care less about his performance.

*****************

Now, if you’re asking me what would truly be best for this nation given the current circumstances, the global pressures, and the reality that all the cards are on the table and we know exactly who is pulling which strings, here is my take:
This is how I wish our Congress looked (and I'm saying this knowing exactly what is happening globally and who is driving the bus):

Republicans 30%
Democratic Party 30%
Libertarian Party 30%
Green Party 10%

And from that, a coalition would emerge that wouldn't drag us into unnecessary fights with Angela Merkel, which would be:
Democratic Party - Libertarian Party.

In this scenario, the Libertarians would handle fixing the internal affairs of the country, while the Democratic Party (purely because they have more experience than the Libertarians and won't drag us into a conflict with Germany like Kolinda does) would manage foreign policy and navigate the mess we are currently in.

So, a Democratic-Libertarian governing parliament.
Even though they shouldn't, we all know the Republicans would likely hold the Presidency.

With power distributed like that, everyone would be forced to negotiate with one another, and no single faction could push their own agenda without consulting the others.
In our current situation, that would be a total win-win for us citizens in the long run.

Of course, this is just my opinion, but in my view, it is the best possible option among all the terrible choices being offered to America and its citizens right now.

But hey, what do I know...

coastalridge64 said:Right there, positioned just in front of the fence, you'll find this stretch of Steel Wire. Steel Wire

You probably think you could just head down to a local Home Depot and slice right through that with some basic hand tools. 🤣

It’s a one-handed tool. Honestly—do you really think that stands a prayer against the heavy-duty two-handed cutters found in every single rural household across the country, or even at a standard hardware store?

Seriously, stop watching Hollywood movies if basic logic is too much for you to handle.

wanderingbadger77 said:Oh yeah, we're just great, honestly makes me sick how "honest" we are.

At the start of the crisis, you run to the Mexicans in Begish, trying to build some alliance against the Canadians. Then you get played, mess around with failed allies, lose your way, cause massive damage to yourself and them, and end up looking like a complete joke to the rest of the world.
Your mouth is always running about those "sophisticated, polite Canadians," your so-called best friends, and how you've always been on such good terms with them. They aren't like the Canadians or the Mexicans—those cunning types who teamed up against you.

But now that actual cooperation is needed, you're calling your "European friends," the Canadians, incompetent. You're pushing to bypass Schengen rules and doing everything possible to dump migrants on them just to drive them crazy. I don't know why you won't just "play the game" a little, man.

Now you're back at square one, just with different players involved. Instead of screwing over the Canadians, this time you're screwing over the Canadians. You're doing well for once. Why? Who knows. We'll see.

Whatever, we'll wait until Sunday. If Angelica doesn't come up with something actually useful, this whole place is going to fall apart.

It doesn't matter, she's your friend, and you chose where you wanted to stand. Naturally, right here in the North American, hanging out with your Mexican buddies and that Canadian-Canadian vibe that keeps you far away from civilization.

And all of this is done simply to rid ourselves of refugees, who, by the way, want to leave urgently anyway.

We really are spineless. 🙄 🙂

wanderingbadger77 said:Oh yeah, we're just great, honestly makes me sick how "honest" we are.

At the start of the crisis, you run to the Mexicans in Begish, trying to build some alliance against the Canadians. Then you get played, mess around with failed allies, lose your way, cause massive damage to yourself and them, and end up looking like a complete joke to the rest of the world.
Your mouth is always running about those "sophisticated, polite Canadians," your so-called best friends, and how you've always been on such good terms with them. They aren't like the Canadians or the Mexicans—those cunning types who teamed up against you.

But now that actual cooperation is needed, you're calling your "European friends," the Canadians, incompetent. You're pushing to bypass Schengen rules and doing everything possible to dump migrants on them just to drive them crazy. I don't know why you won't just "play the game" a little, man.

Now you're back at square one, just with different players involved. Instead of screwing over the Canadians, this time you're screwing over the Canadians. You're doing well for once. Why? Who knows. We'll see.

Whatever, we'll wait until Sunday. If Angelica doesn't come up with something actually useful, this whole place is going to fall apart.

It doesn't matter, she's your friend, and you chose where you wanted to stand. Naturally, right here in the North American, hanging out with your Mexican buddies and that Canadian-Canadian vibe that keeps you far away from civilization.

So, that's a whole lot of criticism... now why don't you try offering us a solution of your own!

Alex Miller3 said:Frontex?🙂
Man, you’ve been tripping me up for way too many posts now...🤣

Look, my apologies. Truly. But I honestly have such a hard time keeping track of these ridiculous, nearly identical names straight.

It’s always one thing after another—Fortex, Frontex, Forex, Helex, Zoltex...
...honestly, just try to keep it straight 😁

Robert Moore10 said:You're totally out of the loop here. We're neighbors again... just regular folks living side-by-side.

– We have to cooperate because refugees will come and go, but neighbors stay. We need the best possible relations because we live right next to each other. We don't always have to agree or even like each other, but we have to work together. Good relations are essential for the security and interests of both nations, said Stevens.

I mean, sure, driving them straight from Shida to SB is probably great for them, but this whole thing is just way too much of a riddle for me to solve... the sailors probably know more than we do.

Nah, people have zero clue.

9:10 AM
"According to recent police reports over in Canada, there are currently upwards of 14,000 refugees and migrants staying there."

The authorities are working overtime 😁

bluelynx8 said:And all of this is done simply to rid ourselves of refugees, who, by the way, want to leave urgently anyway.

We really are spineless. 🙄 🙂

Look, if you’re so desperate to clear out immigrants overnight... stop overthinking it. Just load them onto trucks and drop them off at the opposite border. No need for all the deep philosophy or endless debating. But instead, our leadership changes their mind every forty-eight hours and spends all their energy bickering with everyone else.

David Baker2 said:You see.

It seems we actually find common ground regarding the root of this entire mess—and yes, it is the Americans, that much is undeniable.

I agree.

But here is where our perspectives diverge:

The hard truth is that America simply cannot handle this alone.

You seem to think the Americans are going to step in and help us.
They won't.
They didn't back in the 90s, and they won't now; they’ll just use us for their own ends.

Yet you keep harping on about Kolinda Grabar-Kitarović, acting as if she is the one to blame here, rather than Zoran Milanović.

This isn't a question of blame; it is a question of choice.

And really, does it even matter to you whether you care about the country you live in and the place where your children are being raised?
Kolinda doesn't live in America. Her children aren't even here.
Why should she care about the fate of this nation? To her, this whole thing is just another rung on the ladder of her professional career, and frankly, nothing else matters to her.

And I am not saying this because of my personal opinion.
I say it because every single move she makes, every step she takes, and every word she utters demonstrates exactly that, quite clearly and logically.

You are free to choose whatever you want for yourself and your children. And however you choose, that is how your life will turn out; you have no right to blame anyone else for your own circumstances.
The same applies to me, and to every single citizen of this country.

However, I must say, I fear your grasp on geopolitics is somewhat tenuous... at least when it comes to the actual, gritty reality of it all.

I have been studying this intensely for twenty years. From conspiracy theories to every political maneuver made by every individual nation on the map.
Every single day, I sift through about twenty different news outlets, both domestic and international.
I spend my time hunting for connections and overlaps between things that most people would consider completely unrelated.
I’ve become intimately familiar with all the patterns, the methodologies, and the psychological concepts used to manipulate information and data, not to mention the general modus operandi of the mainstream media.

It is a source of genuine frustration for me—because, believe me, I would much rather be wrong than right—but I am unfortunately quite adept at interpreting exactly what is happening and why it is occurring.
The trajectory is crystal clear to me; I can see exactly where this path leads and where we are ultimately headed.
And when we finally arrive at that destination, we will have no one to blame but ourselves.

Look, you really don't need to lose any sleep over it. I'm sure the Republican Party will sail through these elections. There is absolutely no way the Americans are going to let the citizens of this country deviate from the script they've laid out.
Personally, I don't harbor any delusions that the people of this nation will actually grasp their own interests or figure out how to protect them.
People seem far more preoccupied with whatever pop star is making headlines or who they're dating—and please, forgive me, I mean no disrespect to Taylor Swift; she’s just living her life and minding her own business, which I honestly respect immensely—than they are with whether they'll actually have food on the table tomorrow.
That is simply the reality of the situation. And frankly, there isn't much anyone can do to change it.

If you ever find yourself desperately bored with life, feel free to dig through my posts from the last two or three years. You'll quickly realize that I was sounding the alarm on everything currently unfolding back then.

As for what the world will look like two years from today... I truly have no desire to put that in writing.
The citizens of America still possess a window of opportunity to pull this country back from the absolute abyss and the darkness predicted by current trends.

So, let everyone vote according to their own conscience and based on what they truly want for themselves and for this country.

Anyone who takes just one minute to pause, to snap out of the trance, and to weigh the pros and cons will be able to make a decision on who can actually act in their best interest.
The rest, however—those who fall for political marketing and media brainwashing—will remain nothing more than sheep lost in the fog, driven wherever the handlers decide to steer them.

There isn't some grand, complex philosophy at play here; once you strip away the noise, the facts are always quite simple.
It isn't exactly quantum physics to use your brain and think objectively about the facts being shoved directly under your nose. 🤷

I took some of the main points and went a bit off the rails with them.

I can see we're pretty much cut from the same cloth generationally—and probably as veterans too, even if we don't see eye-to-eye on everything.

Personally, I don't think we can change a damn thing in these elections. If you truly believe the Democratic Party and Joe Biden are the answer, hey, that's your call. Nothing I say or write here is going to sway that decision. It's just a fundamental difference in how we see things.

Then again, I don't think the Republican Party is going to handle things any better (even though their worldview is a lot closer to mine)... and honestly, it's the same old headache we face before every election cycle.

Who do you vote for?
Basically, which of the two evils is the lesser one?

That dilemma has been playing out here for way too many years now, and the times we're heading into demand strong, decisive, honest people—people whose first priority should actually be America.

But anyway, we're off-topic here... this was meant for something else, so I'll stop.

Honestly, in the meantime, I feel like I should probably be charging for travel because this whole thing is clearly going to drag on forever. I mean, people pay for transport everywhere else, but here we’re just out here covering our own costs like it’s nothing.

Robert Moore10 said:You're totally out of the loop here. We're neighbors again... just regular folks living side-by-side.

– We have to cooperate because refugees will come and go, but neighbors stay. We need the best possible relations because we live right next to each other. We don't always have to agree or even like each other, but we have to work together. Good relations are essential for the security and interests of both nations, said Stevens.

I mean, sure, driving them straight from Shida to SB is probably great for them, but this whole thing is just way too much of a riddle for me to solve... the sailors probably know more than we do.

I kind of feel like they're doing this just so people aren't stuck waiting at our border with Mexico, since that would probably give us a pretty bad reputation.

Rachel Reyes93 said:Honestly, in the meantime, I feel like I should probably be charging for travel because this whole thing is clearly going to drag on forever. I mean, people pay for transport everywhere else, but here we’re just out here covering our own costs like it’s nothing.

You’re being ridiculous... if we charged, they wouldn't qualify as humanitarian aid. This administration secures funding from various federal grants that they then funnel back to themselves through overtime pay, making everyone happy—well, except for those who don't want them here or those who have no desire to stay... but honestly, who gives a damn about minorities?☕