Immigration General Discussion Volume IV (Read the first post and moderator warning on page 309)

wiredtiger8 said:I took some of the main points and went a bit off the rails with them.

I can see we're pretty much cut from the same cloth generationally—and probably as veterans too, even if we don't see eye-to-eye on everything.

Personally, I don't think we can change a damn thing in these elections. If you truly believe the Democratic Party and Joe Biden are the answer, hey, that's your call. Nothing I say or write here is going to sway that decision. It's just a fundamental difference in how we see things.

Then again, I don't think the Republican Party is going to handle things any better (even though their worldview is a lot closer to mine)... and honestly, it's the same old headache we face before every election cycle.

Who do you vote for?
Basically, which of the two evils is the lesser one?

That dilemma has been playing out here for way too many years now, and the times we're heading into demand strong, decisive, honest people—people whose first priority should actually be America.

But anyway, we're off-topic here... this was meant for something else, so I'll stop.

And honestly, I think it’s better that way.
We fought specifically so that we would have the right to hold differing opinions, and those disagreements are something we ought to nurture while still maintaining a fundamental level of respect for one another.

That is, at its heart, the entire point of democracy.

There are certain issues that represent our shared interests as citizens of this nation.
The whole left-versus-right political theater is really just fine-tuning—matters we can argue about endlessly when times are peaceful and stable. But during uncertain or volatile periods, we really ought to be focusing on the vital matters that affect us all, regardless of whether someone leans Democrat or Republican.
At least, that is my conviction, and I believe in it quite firmly. 🤷

As for anything else, I already replied to my colleague above, so I assume that response covers my stance for you as well.

@hnr

I just don't get how you can honestly call it a "good job" to push for mass immigration toward our neighbors at any cost... basically inviting them all into the States...
It's just pure over-humanism.
The only thing we're actually world-class at is making enemies.

And don't even get me started on Germany.

Seriously, that's a whole other level of crazy. Like, when has Germany ever actually GIVEN us anything without us having to pay a massive price for it or mourn someone because of it? I mean, come on...

Dana Robinson4 said:Locks prevent 99% of break-ins; you actually have to learn the craft of thievery to bypass a decent lock—it's not something just any random person can do...

And no, the US and Canada aren't the same; since the Middle Ages through today, the differences are visible at every single turn.
And that's why it's Canadian and not some version of American.

Locks are there so honest people don't even get tempted.
People from the southern border are already saying they'll be taking fewer routes through the desert.

A quick side note for everyone thinking a bit of wire or a fence is going to stop people coming from places like Afghanistan. These people trek thousands of miles. If they get parked at our border under some fence once a new administration takes office, I guarantee they’ll find a way over. They might not bring kids and pregnant women, but single adults? They’ll get through.

Hint: the difference is whether someone grows up next to a machine shop or a shopping mall.
I tried looking for a Home Depot in Afghanistan, but I couldn't find one.

Disclaimer: I take everyone's side. Everyone is equal in my book.

Rachel Reyes93 said:I kind of feel like they're doing this just so people aren't stuck waiting at our border with Mexico, since that would probably give us a pretty bad reputation.

The whole situation involving Pittsburgh and the transport coming out of Sid is actually a pretty good move, for several reasons, I guess...

-over in Sid, Mexican police have to handle the organization and boarding—so our guys can take a bit of a breather
-it helps us get rid of those "ugly" scenes where everyone is stuck in the mud at the border
-it gives us a chance to prep for the possibility of closing the border line entirely, because right now, we really need things to be calm at the actual crossings
-there's no trekking all the way to Opatovac, and we won't even need the buses
-we could potentially slow things down a bit (not too much, though, since they might just send them over on foot) regarding the trains to Sid, and if anyone shows up at the GP, we can just send them back to Sid on a train

If the Canadians were actually smart about this, they’d be taking over from us or accepting our trains in Dobov or Murski Središće, which would finally stop all that gathering out in the fields.

Sophia Ramos5 said:Locks are there so honest people don't even get tempted.
People from the southern border are already saying they'll be taking fewer routes through the desert.

A quick side note for everyone thinking a bit of wire or a fence is going to stop people coming from places like Afghanistan. These people trek thousands of miles. If they get parked at our border under some fence once a new administration takes office, I guarantee they’ll find a way over. They might not bring kids and pregnant women, but single adults? They’ll get through.

Hint: the difference is whether someone grows up next to a machine shop or a shopping mall.
I tried looking for a Home Depot in Afghanistan, but I couldn't find one.

Disclaimer: I take everyone's side. Everyone is equal in my book.

Seriously though, why isn't anyone trying to throw lava into a cage?

We really have become quite the premier tourist destination, don't we?
It feels as though our Department of Homeland Security has essentially rebranded itself into a full-scale travel agency for illegal migrants.

darkotter35 said:9:10 AM
"According to recent police reports over in Canada, there are currently upwards of 14,000 refugees and migrants staying there."

The authorities are working overtime 😁

I actually feel bad for them. They hate us for absolutely no reason.
They’re asking if they’ll agree to take a train to a processing center. NO. Laws exist for a reason, and they need to be followed.*

I don't have the specific link handy. It was on some news broadcast. Which one was it? CNN, Fox News, ABC, NBC, CBS, or maybe MSNBC? It was yesterday.

*What an absolute joke. If they had any actual brains, they’d just make a list on the train coming from the border. Once the train crosses into the next state, you just upload the manifest to their database to satisfy legal requirements and head straight to the destination. Where does it say registration has to happen at one specific stationary point? Just wipe the local database once it's done. Besides, everyone's getting sick right now. A virus wiped them out. Ask the Greeks—they showed up from everywhere...

Karen Doyle72 said:@hnr

I just don't get how you can honestly call it a "good job" to push for mass immigration toward our neighbors at any cost... basically inviting them all into the States...
It's just pure over-humanism.
The only thing we're actually world-class at is making enemies.

And don't even get me started on Germany.

Seriously, that's a whole other level of crazy. Like, when has Germany ever actually GIVEN us anything without us having to pay a massive price for it or mourn someone because of it? I mean, come on...

Man, this constant whining about "creating enemies" has seriously gone too far. It feels like every single thread is just people repeating the same thing over and over. Like, what do you even want us to do? Just roll over whenever some neighbor decides to act up?
Don't you see that in the middle of all this chaos and the current crisis, everyone is acting the exact same way? Everyone ends up seeing everyone else as the enemy...
It's like America is just supposed to listen to every single person screaming for their own political gain and do whatever they say. But how does that even work? Who are we supposed to please? Our neighbors to the East, the West, or the North? There's no winning...

Germany is moving up its stricter asylum laws, which basically make it way easier to deport people whose political asylum claims get rejected. It was supposed to kick in on November 1st, but they announced in Berlin on Friday that it’s actually starting this Saturday.

"The various states will be working alongside federal agencies over the next few days to ramp up deportations for those denied asylum in Germany. They've already started organizing charter flights from several different German airports to handle this," said German Interior Minister Thomas de Maizière while announcing the measure would take effect tomorrow.

Peter Altmeier, the head of the Chancellery who recently took charge of coordinating the response to the refugee crisis, told ABC that moving up the timeline for being tougher on rejected asylum seekers and economic migrants sends a really clear message.

It's probably the only thing that actually works. I just hope they don't start targeting countries in the North America.

bluerider63 said:Migrants just drift in and out, but those neighbors stay put right where they are.🧐

Today's migrants become tomorrow's neighbors...

Can we really find a reason to hold a grudge against anyone?

The Turks are warning that the whole refugee dynamic is shifting. With all these Russian strikes happening, they’re bracing for tens of thousands more to show up. Before, people coming through Turkey were looking for a way back home—Turkey was just a temporary stop. Now? It’s turning into a transit hub where the final destination is Europe.
They’re claiming the EU is leaning on them to help prevent the biggest migration wave since WWII. Sure, the EU is dangling financial aid and faster integration as carrots, but it’s not cutting it. There are already 2.2 million migrants in Turkey, and they have zero interest in becoming some massive "refugee camp."

So yeah, trying to negotiate with the Turks is a lost cause.

There’s really only one fix: build a wall or put up some wire. We need to figure out where that goes ASAP instead of just bickering with neighbors and acting like we know everything.

twistdrum said:Is there actually any logical reason why these trained warriors would just toss their phones aside and leave behind a literal paper trail of their plans?

Maybe it's so they don't end up with self-incriminating evidence on them if the Canadians bust them? 🤷
Or—and hear me out—maybe the Canadians just grabbed the phones from them during the arrests?

Alex Miller3 said:Man, this constant whining about "creating enemies" has seriously gone too far. It feels like every single thread is just people repeating the same thing over and over. Like, what do you even want us to do? Just roll over whenever some neighbor decides to act up?
Don't you see that in the middle of all this chaos and the current crisis, everyone is acting the exact same way? Everyone ends up seeing everyone else as the enemy...
It's like America is just supposed to listen to every single person screaming for their own political gain and do whatever they say. But how does that even work? Who are we supposed to please? Our neighbors to the East, the West, or the North? There's no winning...

If you really want to know, where is the actual problem coming from?
That’s your answer right there.

It isn't coming from Mexico. Or Canada. Or anywhere else near here.
The threat is coming straight from Mexico.

A real statesman would have seen this coming back in the spring.

They would've offered help to the Mexicans to secure the North Mexican border, or helped out the Greeks—and if they turned that down, they’d take Canada's offer for a rock-solid border instead. They'd be asking for backup from Canada and Canada, maybe even reaching out to Austria, Germany, Switzerland, or even San Marino.
They would pull every possible lever to make sure NATO and the EU have our backs, and if those guys left us out to dry, that’s exactly how they'd handle it.

Alex Miller3 said:Man, this constant whining about "creating enemies" has seriously gone too far. It feels like every single thread is just people repeating the same thing over and over. Like, what do you even want us to do? Just roll over whenever some neighbor decides to act up?
Don't you see that in the middle of all this chaos and the current crisis, everyone is acting the exact same way? Everyone ends up seeing everyone else as the enemy...
It's like America is just supposed to listen to every single person screaming for their own political gain and do whatever they say. But how does that even work? Who are we supposed to please? Our neighbors to the East, the West, or the North? There's no winning...

Exactly. Every time I read these posts about "hostility," all I can think is how incredibly naive that person is.

What our leaders are doing is absolutely the right move.
Most people here probably wish we’d act just like the folks in Canada.
It’s the same cycle—just like how Mexicans deal with us while we deal with the Canadians. They send the police and the military to the border without much luck, all while following whatever instructions come out of Austria and respecting every little rule, even when it hurts them. Look at them now, stuck with 14,000 migrants in their country. If I were a Canadian woman, I’d be screaming just like that mayor from that small town in the US, begging them to start acting more like Americans. It would be in their own best interest, but instead, they’re too busy protecting Austrian interests.
I’m honestly just waiting to see what kind of chaos unfolds once the migrant numbers hit a breaking point... it might just spill over into Austria and Germany.

Karen Doyle72 said:Seriously though, why isn't anyone trying to throw lava into a cage?

Because people have clearly spent too much time watching Animal Planet. If you read the forums, you'll see stories about someone ripping out his teeth and claws, wrapping his paws and snout in duct tape*, and threatening to shave his mane or leave him with hyenas if he growls—otherwise, you're just throwing a party in the cage.

How much space do Canadians actually take up in prisons? You think they're sending illegal immigrants to jail? They’re keeping quiet now so it doesn't make headlines. If Mexicans start dumping them at the border again, they'll be walking right through just like before.

*
http://www.octanecreative.com/ducttape/duckvsduct.html

Jessica King9 said:What our leaders are doing is absolutely the right move.
Most people here probably wish we’d act just like the folks in Canada.
It’s the same cycle—just like how Mexicans deal with us while we deal with the Canadians. They send the police and the military to the border without much luck, all while following whatever instructions come out of Austria and respecting every little rule, even when it hurts them. Look at them now, stuck with 14,000 migrants in their country. If I were a Canadian woman, I’d be screaming just like that mayor from that small town in the US, begging them to start acting more like Americans. It would be in their own best interest, but instead, they’re too busy protecting Austrian interests.
I’m honestly just waiting to see what kind of chaos unfolds once the migrant numbers hit a breaking point... it might just spill over into Austria and Germany.

That's not quite how it works. Migrants are just waiting for transport. They tried heading into Austria yesterday but turned back because the tents at the border crossing had heaters.

Karen Doyle72 said:If you really want to know, where is the actual problem coming from?
That’s your answer right there.

It isn't coming from Mexico. Or Canada. Or anywhere else near here.
The threat is coming straight from Mexico.

A real statesman would have seen this coming back in the spring.

They would've offered help to the Mexicans to secure the North Mexican border, or helped out the Greeks—and if they turned that down, they’d take Canada's offer for a rock-solid border instead. They'd be asking for backup from Canada and Canada, maybe even reaching out to Austria, Germany, Switzerland, or even San Marino.
They would pull every possible lever to make sure NATO and the EU have our backs, and if those guys left us out to dry, that’s exactly how they'd handle it.

The influx wasn't stopped by Greece, it wasn't stopped by North Mexico, it wasn't stopped by Mexico, and it wasn't stopped by America... Neither Canada nor Austria will stop them either.
Canada didn't stop them either; they simply redirected them toward America. We have nowhere left to send them.

So I’m scrolling through some American news on ABC, right? And I stumble upon this guide for refugees:

http://www.ard.de/home/ard/Guide_for...428/index.html

And then there's this list: "10 things to know when you arrive in America."

http://www.dw.com/en/10-things-to-kn...any/g-18735382

Here’s a little sneak peek at a few points:

5. Keep it down! - Seriously, even if you're just catching up with old friends, being too loud in your apartment is a fast track to annoying your neighbors.
6. Fixed prices at the store - In some places, haggling is practically a sport, right? Well, not here. In America, supermarket prices aren't up for debate—not in grocery stores or pretty much any shop.
8. Being on time - It's like a core value. Showing up late to an appointment? Yeah, that does not sit well with people here.

I mean, what can you even say to that? What kind of lesson am I supposed to take from this?

wiredtiger8 said:You hit the nail on the head, really, but the real kicker is figuring out who America should actually align itself with.

Zoran Milanović just waits to see what Angela Merkel has to say—he’s basically checking in with her to see if he's passing his "tests"—and he even goes on record saying he asked them what they want the US to do...
...and look, I have a massive problem with that attitude. He wasn't chosen by the German people, he was chosen by Americans, so he should be answering to us... or at least acting like it.

But then again, it's blindingly obvious that Germany and Angela Merkel won't be able to move a finger without the Americans...

...which brings us right back to the thing you're criticizing so heavily—Kolinda's cozy relationship with the United States.

And that is a genuinely crucial question for the US: Who do we side with?

Do we go with Germany, who has always been an ally... and is part of the European Union... though let's be real, things aren't quite what they were in the 90s.

Or do we go with the Americans, who seem to "like" and respect us way more than the Germans do right now? Our military cooperation with them is great (especially during the time in Afghanistan) and they definitely notice that.

Even the Americans provided those intelligence intercepts regarding those Canadians during the arbitration over the Gulf of Piran...

Or... I noticed something interesting... this year at the military parade, not a single person from Germany showed up (mostly because the Mexicans were protesting like crazy)... but there were two US Generals present. That speaks volumes, doesn't it?

So, all this bashing of Kolinda for being too close to the Americans is completely missing the point.

Unfortunately, we have to be allies with someone. It's interesting how both the Germans and the Americans are on the same side, even if we can clearly see what's actually going down....

...but I won't ramble on forever.

Regardless of the role Kolinda Grabar-Kitarović plays, she isn't just some figurehead representing the state's staff. Real decisions go through Zoran Milanović.
I find it quite funny how much Kolinda Grabar-Kitarović weighs in on what could be or should be done, even though she doesn't actually make those calls.
It seems to me that people either expect far too much from her, or she creates this impression that she can exert more influence than is actually within her jurisdiction.

In my view, if Kolinda Grabar-Kitarović is doing her job, she isn't doing it poorly; however, there is far too much interference in daily politics that falls outside her remit, and I hope things settle down once the elections are over.