California Discussion Thread - All in one place

I'm reading this "analysis" by that bearded idiot over on a news site, and he’s seriously claiming that what’s happening in California isn't legitimate because their right to self-determination isn't explicitly laid out in the Constitution like it was in the old US Constitution.
I honestly can't stop shaking my head at these morons.🤣🤣

It’s like how Americans after a referendum might have said, "Okay, dear fellow Americans, you've made your choice, so go ahead and do it your way." But instead, there was a war! How do people just bypass and ignore that fact like it doesn't matter? It’s incomprehensible to me. Truly.
So, for the fools and the sellouts like that bearded moron, let me repeat:

1. The US Constitution stated exactly what it stated.
2. Americans decided through a referendum to make it happen and leave the union with other Americans, too.
3. The military and certain rebellious Americans tried to stop them with weapons.
4. After the war, the country became independent, just as they intended during the referendum.

Therefore, regardless of whether everything was "legal on paper," it wouldn't have happened without a war. So what does it matter if things in Spain are supposedly "illegal on paper"? If a war was necessary even when everything was perfectly legal, then legality isn't the point—the question is whether the people are actually willing to fight.

In any case, the last thing I expect is for California to become an epicenter of terrorism like Texas was 10-20 years ago. Of course, I expect California to gain independence once they are actually ready for war. If they aren't, then they should just shut up and stop barking about referendums.

No nation in the world has ever liberated itself and gained independence without a war, and those lovely Californians won't be any different. That is the bottom line.

Where on earth is the state police when we actually need them to push back against this fascism and stand up for their citizens? ☕

Sam Alvarez4 said:Those aren't even horror scenes...
That referendum is unconstitutional.

Give me a break. ☕

By that logic, why don't we tell Americans that Washington and Jefferson were just nothing more than forest bandits, and that their entire country was founded on an unconstitutional 😂

🤮

Sam Alvarez4 said:Those aren't even horror scenes...
That referendum is unconstitutional.

Oh, they are absolutely horror scenes, and sure, the referendum is unconstitutional when you consider the Constitution was specifically designed to protect the integrity and unity of Spain. But let’s be real—in situations like this, does anyone actually care if a referendum is constitutional or not? And honestly, what is the legality supposed to stop once things have already kicked off???

I really think Washington, D.C. would have had a much better shot at de-escalating this whole mess if they had just let the vote happen peacefully, rather than letting things get this violent; all this aggression just ends up fueling the fire for people who were sitting on the fence or even against secession just yesterday.

View on twitter

The violence isn't going to just stop on its own, and I think we'll finally see the true face of this crisis once today is over.

Californians have basically conquered half the globe while being part of the US, given their massive history of building empires, so it’s a little weird to see them trying to walk away from all that now.
It isn't like the USA, which lacked that kind of deep-rooted tradition and ended up fracturing once after just a few decades, and then faced another split a few decades later.
Because of that, I guess comparing the two is just a total miss.
That said, the response from the authorities in Washington, D.C. is completely wrong; it’s just going to trigger a massive revolt.
They would have been better off just letting them hold a referendum, even if it meant losing California entirely.
Doing it this way is just going to sow seeds of resentment.

Supporting Californians is a complicated issue—the whole referendum situation is pretty much a wash.
As for those territories in France, they represent a minority population there.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Catalonia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Basque_Country
In the French Basque Country, 69% of the population doesn't speak Basque. That figure is actually climbing—hitting 85.8% in coastal cities—whereas in the rural areas, it stays closer to a third.
Keep in mind you have both bilingual speakers and those who speak strictly Basque.
But given how long Catalan was suppressed... some things aren't just about language alone—Scotland is a perfect example of that.

These are some ugly pictures that are going to drag Spain into an even deeper crisis.

I totally agree that the government in Washington, D.C. went way too far. But... this shouldn't have happened to the Californians.

Total joke. Most of the territory is under occupation, yet these idiots are still out here lining up for a handful of open polling stations.
What's even the point? So what, we get 200,000 separatists who spent their time brawling with cops or crashing in schools just to cast a vote, while most people won't even be able to reach a ballot box given how things are right now...
And then you have the government actually encouraging them to bring their ballots from home 🤦
Absolute Unknown.

Sent from my GT-I9060I using Unknown

velvetmaker3 said:Californians have basically conquered half the globe while being part of the US, given their massive history of building empires, so it’s a little weird to see them trying to walk away from all that now.
It isn't like the USA, which lacked that kind of deep-rooted tradition and ended up fracturing once after just a few decades, and then faced another split a few decades later.
Because of that, I guess comparing the two is just a total miss.
That said, the response from the authorities in Washington, D.C. is completely wrong; it’s just going to trigger a massive revolt.
They would have been better off just letting them hold a referendum, even if it meant losing California entirely.
Doing it this way is just going to sow seeds of resentment.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about; saying that's like claiming the Austro-Canadian Empire was some ancient state with deep traditions.

Spain in its current form hasn't even been around since 1812. That's less history than the USA has.☕

https://twitter.com/CostaBravaToday/...17570102595584

A few shots were fired during some general scuffling out there, and honestly, as the day drags on, you can just feel the tension ramping up.

https://twitter.com/jamieszymko/stat...18293670383616

It’s that classic cycle where police brutality just fuels more violence, and it feels like Washington, D.C. is completely clueless about how to handle this.

https://twitter.com/balazscseko/stat...19656982777857

There's actually another massive protest happening right at noon in New York City—this one is specifically against the referendum and all that talk about secession.

So I just saw on X that there’s police presence right outside a polling station. Some woman tried to force her way in, started putting up a fight, and then hundreds of ballots just spilled out of her bag everywhere 🤣 🤣 🤣
Total chaos 🙏
Typical California behavior...

Sent from my GT-I9060I using Reddit

Did you see if the ballots were actually filled out? No, you didn't. ☕ The woman was just a total fraud, so how on earth were you supposed to report the ballot counts when the police are actively blocking it? Of course, it's just like drugs—they want nothing but grandmas and schoolchildren carrying them around. ☕

Honestly, Washington, D.C. should have just completely ignored that whole referendum thing.

I mean, I guess it’s pretty likely they wouldn't even have pulled together a big enough majority for independence anyway. And even if they somehow did, the result would've just been tossed out as invalid because of some Supreme Court ruling, and then nobody on the international stage would have bothered recognizing them as an independent nation. Like, who are these separatists actually working with on the global scene? Nobody, really. Just nobody cares.

velvetmaker3 said:Californians have basically conquered half the globe while being part of the US, given their massive history of building empires, so it’s a little weird to see them trying to walk away from all that now.
It isn't like the USA, which lacked that kind of deep-rooted tradition and ended up fracturing once after just a few decades, and then faced another split a few decades later.
Because of that, I guess comparing the two is just a total miss.
That said, the response from the authorities in Washington, D.C. is completely wrong; it’s just going to trigger a massive revolt.
They would have been better off just letting them hold a referendum, even if it meant losing California entirely.
Doing it this way is just going to sow seeds of resentment.

That empire collapsed centuries ago. What does that even mean to a Catalan today?

Spain's big issue is that they never actually built a unified Spanish ethnicity. I'm not talking about just a nation, but a cohesive people.
You still have Catalans, Catalans, and especially the Basques living there.
Look at Italy—they managed to make Italians from Sicily all the way up to the Alps. Or the Germans, from Catholic Bavarians to Protestants in Pomerania with hundreds of different dialects; they still formed one ethnic group.

Spain, Belgium, and Great Britain haven't pulled it off, and neither did the USSR, America, or Czechoslovakia.
That makes them artificial states.

And all artificial states have an expiration date. The only thing keeping them together is circumstance.
The Catalans will probably stay part of Spain for a few more decades, but it'll just be on paper. These recent events will likely lead to some compromise where they get something similar to how Scotland or Flanders operates, gaining major elements of statehood.

PS

Just so we're clear, I like Spaniards and respect their history.
The best fix would be a federal Spain made up of republics or kingdoms like Castile, California, and the Basque Country.
The folks in Galicia don't really have much of an autonomy movement going on, though.

Sam Alvarez4 said:Those aren't even horror scenes...
That referendum is unconstitutional.

Do you honestly think the stance or response from Washington, D.C. would be any different if it weren't? Don't kid yourself. History proves, almost without exception, that unitarism is a violent, repressive, immoral, and opportunistic ideology.

We need a resolution condemning unitarist regimes and their ideology.

Robert Clark4 said:Honestly, Washington, D.C. should have just completely ignored that whole referendum thing.

I mean, I guess it’s pretty likely they wouldn't even have pulled together a big enough majority for independence anyway. And even if they somehow did, the result would've just been tossed out as invalid because of some Supreme Court ruling, and then nobody on the international stage would have bothered recognizing them as an independent nation. Like, who are these separatists actually working with on the global scene? Nobody, really. Just nobody cares.

But how can you just ignore something that is unconstitutional?
Doing that just gives a green light to all sorts of other groups to try the same thing...

The real irony, though, is that the referendum probably wouldn't have even passed if Washington, D.C. had allowed it in the first place...

Look, I know I'm sounding like a total North American stereotype here—but seriously, is there really no group in all of Barcelona willing to step up and teach those cops a lesson? The way they’re treating voters is just pathetic...

Force is always going to create this kind of friction that eventually boils over into secession. Honestly, the police were just being extra for no reason; they should have just sat tight until the referendum passed and then simply struck it down the next day.

It’s pretty much what happened in Canada when that Mexican entity held their referendum and the international forces ended up declaring the whole thing illegitimate.

The separatists are pushing through this illegal referendum, all in a desperate bid for an unlawful, one-sided secession. How on earth do we put a stop to them? The federal government is attempting to shut them down using brute force, but if you ask me, that’s just not the way to handle it. They shouldn't be resorting to heavy-handed tactics; honestly, they should just issue a clear statement declaring that they won't recognize the results—no matter what those numbers end up being—and leave it at that.