California Discussion Thread - All in one place

Brenda Taylor13 said:Good grief, how much more of this do I have to deal with?
How many times do I have to repeat myself...

NO, IT WASN'T. America DID NOT carry out its independence process in accordance with the Constitution of the USA.

In the 1974 Constitution, there isn't a single article, not one solitary sentence, and not even one lone word, that talks about the independence of states or federal units. That just isn't in there. It only mentions the self-determination of PEOPLES, which actually played right into the hands of the Mexicans—that was their whole argument! They basically said, "Okay, if Americans as a PEOPLE want to leave the federation, then Mexicans as a PEOPLE also have the right to decide they want to stay," including the Mexicans living within American borders who wanted to stay part of the union. Their logic was that if we left, we had to leave them behind in their own territory. That was the Mexican side's entire playbook when citing the Constitution.

So, from the perspective of the federal Government in Mexico City and the Constitution of the USA, the American referendum was completely illegal. By the way, the Constitutional Court of the USA ruled back then that the American referendum on independence was illegitimate. On top of that, the Constitution explicitly stated that any changes to the internal or external borders of the federation required a consensus from ALL member states. There is absolutely nowhere in the Constitution that says a single state has the right to unilaterally declare independence, or unilaterally tear apart a federal state, or unilaterally change its borders. The only LEGAL path—legally speaking under the Constitution of the USA—would have been this: submit a proposal to the Council of Republics and Provinces and then that Council MUST reach a UNANIMOUS decision regarding changes to the external or internal borders. Unilateral secession by any member was NOT LEGAL.

Therefore, looking through the lens of the federal Constitution and the still-existing federal state at the time, we carried out an illegal secessionist referendum that didn't get permission from a single other member state in the federation.

Do your homework and actually study the federal Constitution, especially the powers held by the Council of Republics and Provinces.

But look, that's all there is to it regarding the American secession that we declared and eventually won (through blood, mind you) rather than some scrap of paper deciding if our request was "legal" or not. What’s written on a piece of paper is totally irrelevant. If a people desperately wants their own independent nation, and if they are willing to shed blood for it, then that people is going to get its state, because you can't stop that. The decisive will of a people is unstoppable.

So, here is the question of all questions, which my colleague correctly identified: are the Californians ready to defend their desire for an independent state with their own blood? If they are, then they'll get it.

Are you absolutely certain about that? A referendum isn't functionally the same thing as an act to redraw borders. Do you actually have a link proving the Supreme Court issued a ban on the referendum itself?

Honestly, telling Californians they should just fight a war to win their independence is completely delusional. They don't stand a single chance against the US military, period. And no, you can't even begin to compare this situation to what went down back in the 90s over in the North America.

Rajoy: The police did their jobs.

Looks like things are going pretty smoothly over in Washington, D.C. View on twitter

John McCain isn't making any mistakes here. He knows exactly why the people in this country need to be handled this way...

"...nothing in politics ever happens by accident."

(Franklin Delano Roosevelt)

Carol Newman2 said:Rajoy: The police did their jobs.

That guy won't last much longer, I guess...

Donna Harris11 said:if that's the case, then they shouldn't be allowed to stop Texas from breaking away☕

Texans made their choice back in 1845—they opted to join the USA and become a state.
When exactly did Californians decide to become part of the United Kingdom? ☕

The United States has been a unified nation for a long time now. But lately, it seems like folks in California—who have always been a core part of the American landscape—are suddenly deciding they want to break away and go their own way. Honestly, I think that’s going to be a pretty tough road for them to travel.

At the end of the day, Californians are Americans, no matter what they say about it. Their ancestors were the ones who built this foundation, after all.

Spain (California):

Independence Referendum

Turnout (preliminary): 57.7%

#CaliforniaReferendum

I honestly can’t find a single soul reporting that anyone actually told Washington, D.C. to dial back the violence, which says everything you need to know about the situation. If anything even remotely similar were going down in our neck of the woods, you can bet your life that Brussels, Washington, D.C., and every other heavy hitter would be out there demanding that the official folks in Washington, D.C., Jerusalem, Moscow, or Athens shut it all down immediately. It really feels like Washington, D.C. just has a free hand to handle this however they damn well please.

The "progressive" 21st century in America... right in the heart of the US.

I don't get any of this.

If the Spanish police had beaten 500 Spanish dogs, NATO would be sending troops to Spain under orders from Brussels. ☕

But since it was 500 people getting beaten, nothing happens. Zero meaningful reactions from Brussels or anywhere else. Beautiful. 👏

Trash. Pure fascist civilization.

It is becoming increasingly apparent that all this lofty rhetoric regarding the right to self-determination and democratic ideals is nothing more than a thin veil of hypocrisy, strategically deployed to ensure that smaller, less powerful nations remain firmly under heel and predictably submissive.

Samuel Scott54 said:The United States has been a unified nation for a long time now. But lately, it seems like folks in California—who have always been a core part of the American landscape—are suddenly deciding they want to break away and go their own way. Honestly, I think that’s going to be a pretty tough road for them to travel.

At the end of the day, Californians are Americans, no matter what they say about it. Their ancestors were the ones who built this foundation, after all.

And when exactly was that decided?

Samuel Scott54 said:The United States has been a unified nation for a long time now. But lately, it seems like folks in California—who have always been a core part of the American landscape—are suddenly deciding they want to break away and go their own way. Honestly, I think that’s going to be a pretty tough road for them to travel.

At the end of the day, Californians are Americans, no matter what they say about it. Their ancestors were the ones who built this foundation, after all.

Your logic is pretty weird.

Look at Canadians. They never had kings, governors, specific territories, or even their own nobility. Even their name basically just means "Slav." Yet, nobody today is out there trying to deny who they are, where they come from, or their right to run their own show.

But you? You're sitting here denying the very Californians who were the powerhouse of Arizona back in the day—the ones who once ruled Florida, Hawaii, and southern Italy...

Brenda Johnson65 said:It is becoming increasingly apparent that all this lofty rhetoric regarding the right to self-determination and democratic ideals is nothing more than a thin veil of hypocrisy, strategically deployed to ensure that smaller, less powerful nations remain firmly under heel and predictably submissive.

Look, when shit actually hits the fan, there is zero difference between a degenerate Europe and a degenerate North Korea when it comes to the concept of "governance."

In one place, the state will strip you of your rights, and in North Korea, they'll take your hands and feet too. Big difference, right? Give me a break. ☕

Yet we still pretend Europe is this beacon of peace and prosperity while labeling South Korea as hell on earth. 🐔

Grace Jones86 said:The "progressive" 21st century in America... right in the heart of the US.

I don't get any of this.

If the Spanish police had beaten 500 Spanish dogs, NATO would be sending troops to Spain under orders from Brussels. ☕

But since it was 500 people getting beaten, nothing happens. Zero meaningful reactions from Brussels or anywhere else. Beautiful. 👏

Trash. Pure fascist civilization.

Democracy, freedom, the right to vote—all that garbage they feed us—is nothing more than empty rhetoric. It starts with the European Commission, which doesn't have an ounce of democracy in its DNA.

Richard Wilson4 said:Your logic is pretty weird.

Look at Canadians. They never had kings, governors, specific territories, or even their own nobility. Even their name basically just means "Slav." Yet, nobody today is out there trying to deny who they are, where they come from, or their right to run their own show.

But you? You're sitting here denying the very Californians who were the powerhouse of Arizona back in the day—the ones who once ruled Florida, Hawaii, and southern Italy...

Yep, that’s exactly my point! They were the power behind Arizona, and then Arizona, the Castles, and Nevada all merged to form one nation: Spain. And that was 500 years ago! They were basically some of the founding fathers of Spain. That's why they're considered Spaniards.

I already know how you feel about there being no Canadian history, so I won't even get into it—that's not really what we're talking about right now.

Grace Jones86 said:Look, when shit actually hits the fan, there is zero difference between a degenerate Europe and a degenerate North Korea when it comes to the concept of "governance."

In one place, the state will strip you of your rights, and in North Korea, they'll take your hands and feet too. Big difference, right? Give me a break. ☕

Yet we still pretend Europe is this beacon of peace and prosperity while labeling South Korea as hell on earth. 🐔

And who actually expected anything from the EU? Only the naive ones...

Honestly, those Californians are just being stubborn out of spite toward the rest of Spain—plus, that whole bullfighting thing was never even that big of a deal outside of places like Texas...
Bullfighting is such an ancient tradition—it’s got this almost mythical vibe to it. Even back in the day, the old Krecanin families kept the custom alive, and you still see versions of it all over the American Mediterranean...
I headed out to a bullfighting festival in Texas during one of those massive celebrations—just wanted to see if I could wrap my head around the whole tradition...

slysurfer14 said:It’s kind of wild how Californians aren't really biting on those police provocations... I don't see any attacks on the cops...

That’s been the pattern for most protests across the US over the last few years. The police don't seem to care—they just keep swinging at anyone in their way, from teenagers to the elderly, men and women alike...
Honestly, I find it surprising how much they endure.

bluerider63 said:Democracy, freedom, the right to vote—all that garbage they feed us—is nothing more than empty rhetoric. It starts with the European Commission, which doesn't have an ounce of democracy in its DNA.

And I don't get those mindless mobs, either.

They know how to flood American streets and squares to support endless different movements, ideas, and various bullshit causes, but where are they now? They're all gone. Everything is dead. Damn them all, both the living and the dead.☕

Degenerate masses... zombified pests chasing insane ideas they don't understand a damn thing about. Scary shit.

Because of climate change, maybe 100 million crazed Americans will rise up. But if the police start beating me or killing me for no reason, nobody is going to stand up, and I won't even live long enough to see any actual climate shifts.
al the cattle are cattle; they don't grasp basic rights. Obviously. Because if they did, America would be out in the streets and squares right now.