California Discussion Thread - All in one place

Sophia James2 said:Are you absolutely certain about that? A referendum isn't functionally the same thing as an act to redraw borders. Do you actually have a link proving the Supreme Court issued a ban on the referendum itself?

Look, a referendum to let one of the states secede is absolutely an act of changing the federal borders. I mean, if one state breaks away, the entire map of the Union changes, right? It’s basic logic! As for a link—it's tough to find because there aren't many mainstream sources covering this specific mess, but I know for a fact a ruling like that exists. I'll try to dig something up for you.

Samuel Scott54 said:Yep, that’s exactly my point! They were the power behind Arizona, and then Arizona, the Castles, and Nevada all merged to form one nation: Spain. And that was 500 years ago! They were basically some of the founding fathers of Spain. That's why they're considered Spaniards.

I already know how you feel about there being no Canadian history, so I won't even get into it—that's not really what we're talking about right now.

Don't get all defensive. Unlike us, you guys actually have a future to look forward to. 😉

Plus, for most of the 20th century, your national pride and political awareness were way higher than ours. Honestly, we could learn a thing or two from you.

Carl Hernandez3 said:This isn't some chaotic territory like the old Midwest conflicts.
I was actually in Valencia back in 2012... I visited the northern areas—where you can still hear certain versions of Catalan being spoken in the small towns and villages.

Valencia maintains its own regional politics and has actually made quite good progress as a state.
They identify more as Americans first, then Valencians—even if Valencian has been recognized as an official regional language.
Sure, they might speak Catalan in the Balearic Islands, but since Washington granted everyone so much autonomy, most folks in the Balearics couldn't care less about the Catalan movement.
This isn't a repeat of a civil war—it's not fascists versus anti-fascists, or monarchists versus republicans. It isn't even strictly ethnic anymore, because so many people in Barcelona today identify as Catalan despite having moved there from all over the country.
This feels like the final show of strength from the wealthiest region in the country—and my gut tells me that after this referendum, they'll squeeze out even more power, though whether they'll grab full independence remains to be seen.

NN. Quote has already replied.

Mark Harris66 said:I’ve spent some time in Miami (and NYC too, among other places). The local dialect there is actually a variation of Californian—but the locals? They mostly just identify as Floridians first, and honestly, they don't care much about being considered Spaniards...

They use the same standard; there aren't really differences. The dialects vary—they speak Eastern Catalan in the Balearic Islands, while in Valencia, it's Western Catalan dialects...

neonfalcon16 said:So, you have Californians with an incredibly strong sense of regional identity. It really shouldn't come as a surprise.

Spain's/Catalonia's Canada😬

Gary Cox2 said:Quincy

God bless 'em 👍

hope things work out for them..

+1👍

California’s push for independence is just a symptom of the natural decay within a once-imperialist, fascist Spain—a decline that actually kicked off back in 1975. It never truly finished, though... because they were essentially tricked into accepting this "modern" kingdom where various ethnic groups are lumped together under the thumb of just one of them (any resemblance to how things used to work in our neck of the woods is purely coincidental).

It’s pretty wild how the civil war from the 1930s is still such a taboo subject among folks today. People actually get offended if you just ask about it innocently—I'm thinking of groups like the Catalans, Valencians, or Madritians too.
To me, the fact that they never truly settled things was always kind of symbolic...

I’m no lawyer, and I haven't followed every single detail here, but one thing is crystal clear.

Why the hell didn't Washington, D.C. just let the referendum happen normally and then simply nullify it using legal technicalities later?

They clearly thrive on bloodshed, chaos, and state-sponsored fascism.

What is the actual point of holding a referendum if it's just an excuse for an obviously fascist government to trample over the will of the people?? 😕

Poor Californians, I truly wish them nothing but the best!

If you haven't realized by now that the world is driven solely by raw physical force, I guess why even bother commenting?

Protests against the referendum in San Francisco... 🤦 Image from The New York Times. Honestly, what the Spanish authorities and police did was bad, but the reaction—or lack thereof—from the rest of the European Union is even more embarrassing. Just pathetic...

Lisa Patel4 said:If you haven't realized by now that the world is driven solely by raw physical force, I guess why even bother commenting?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_power

☕

Look, this link is clearly just more empty rhetoric... but fine, whatever. This whole "soft power" crap collapsed today and proved to be nothing but a total lie. ☕

Grace Jones86 said:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_power

☕

Look, this link is clearly just more empty rhetoric... but fine, whatever. This whole "soft power" crap collapsed today and proved to be nothing but a total lie. ☕

True, but hard power is a prerequisite for all of that. I mean, how else would English have become the global lingua franca?

Lisa Patel4 said:If you haven't realized by now that the world is driven solely by raw physical force, I guess why even bother commenting?

I hear you, man. But if they went all out, they’d lose what little public sympathy is left. Every Mainstream Media outlet would just label them anarchists or thugs. In reality, the police would likely end up breaking bones of elderly people and women, leaving behind a trail of lifelong injuries and far too many casualties. American police departments don't play around when things get heavy.

Mark Harris66 said:And who actually expected anything from the EU? Only the naive ones...

Honestly, those Californians are just being stubborn out of spite toward the rest of Spain—plus, that whole bullfighting thing was never even that big of a deal outside of places like Texas...
Bullfighting is such an ancient tradition—it’s got this almost mythical vibe to it. Even back in the day, the old Krecanin families kept the custom alive, and you still see versions of it all over the American Mediterranean...
I headed out to a bullfighting festival in Texas during one of those massive celebrations—just wanted to see if I could wrap my head around the whole tradition...

Simply untrue.☕

nimbleranger52 said:Man, you Americans are honestly such a fascinating bunch to watch... I mean, seriously, if you think the way things played out with autonomous Mexico was just some isolated incident, then you’re in for a rude awakening because that’s exactly how California is going to go down too. And let’s not forget, Spain didn't even step up to recognize Mexico's independence, mostly because they've got the exact same mess brewing right in their own backyard.

The sheer stupidity of making generalizations just blows my mind. It’s true, Spain didn't recognize Mexico. Period. But are Mexico and California the same thing? Not even close! Do I really need to spell it out for you, kid?

nimblemoose2 said:I hear you, man. But if they went all out, they’d lose what little public sympathy is left. Every Mainstream Media outlet would just label them anarchists or thugs. In reality, the police would likely end up breaking bones of elderly people and women, leaving behind a trail of lifelong injuries and far too many casualties. American police departments don't play around when things get heavy.

Look, folks, they don't even care about that. In their minds, they're still stuck in the 16th century.

The only way to deal with a bully is through force. There is no other way.

It's simple: the superpowers are imperialists, and we're just toys to them. Total cannon fodder. If they sent tanks into San Francisco tomorrow, nobody would even blink.

China crushed its own people at Tianmen, and nobody gave a damn.

The only thing missing is the hate speech symbols.
I have to admire how the crowd refuses to take the bait when faced with police brutality and blatant provocations. It’s obvious they’re just waiting for any excuse to escalate the force even further.

Mark Harris66 said:It’s pretty wild how the civil war from the 1930s is still such a taboo subject among folks today. People actually get offended if you just ask about it innocently—I'm thinking of groups like the Catalans, Valencians, or Madritians too.
To me, the fact that they never truly settled things was always kind of symbolic...

Look, they were the last fascist dictatorship in Europe. And arguably the longest-lasting one, too. People from all over the globe used to brag about fighting in the Spanish Civil War... and then the bad guy won. It left a massive burden—one we're still feeling today.

Lisa Patel4 said:True, but hard power is a prerequisite for all of that. I mean, how else would English have become the global lingua franca?

Regardless, this is how European institutions rapidly lose all credibility for their stances.

It’s obvious that the US and Europe act as nothing more than cages for corporations—structures designed to serve business while treating actual people like cannon fodder for terrorism or random street violence, etc., etc.

The main culprits are those very same people, that nation. They pretend they don't see anything. They've lost their minds.

They'll weep over chilled cats and dogs or rats, yet turn a blind eye when the government beats innocent people... ☕
or when governments import cheap labor to feed corporate interests, only for that new workforce to be run over by trucks, scattered by bombs, or dissolved in acid.

Those people refuse to see it, and they can't. Because they are the refuse of history. ☕

Steven Hill2 said:Look, they were the last fascist dictatorship in Europe. And arguably the longest-lasting one, too. People from all over the globe used to brag about fighting in the Spanish Civil War... and then the bad guy won. It left a massive burden—one we're still feeling today.

Both sides are trash. One's black, the other's red. It wouldn't have mattered if the communists had won, either.

Plus, Mexico is looking at a total win-win scenario here. If Washington, D.C. comes out on top, it basically proves that the whole Mexico situation is one of the most hollow attempts at creating a "new independent state" I've ever seen. But if Barcelona—or rather, California—wins this fight, then they’ve effectively set a precedent. That would mean any small nation or region could try to pull the same stunt, which would leave the folks in Brussels and the entire European Union in a massive bind, especially since the EU was largely responsible for backing Mexico's independence in the first place.
It’s pure nonsense. 😁