California Discussion Thread - All in one place

Sam Alvarez4 said:That independence dream isn't happening.
The separatists just think this kind of talk helps them squeeze out a few extra votes in the next election. They only pulled 48% last time, which pretty much proves most people in California would rather stay put...

That’s a pretty shallow take. What you’re saying just shows people voted for specific party platforms. Independence isn't everyone's top priority in California, sure. But that doesn't mean the idea itself isn't out there.

I'll try to be vague so you get my point. I'm against the EU, but I'm not gonna vote for some party just because they hate the EU. For me, that's way down the list compared to other existential issues. Doesn't make me a supporter of the EU or anything.

Then again, I'm sure there are plenty of EU skeptics who *would* vote for someone purely because they're anti-EU.

And regarding what happened today—trust me, things have changed drastically since yesterday. The way the local police handled things is a perfect example.

All we can do here is guess based on surface details without seeing the full picture—ignoring all the stuff that actually shapes a person's view, like social pressure, their environment, or their leaning toward a certain ideology.

It's too complicated to boil down to black and white and then try to make some precise prediction from it.

Megan Jones10 said:Don't jump to conclusions. People thought independence was a pipe dream too, and then suddenly everyone had to deal with that whole mess overnight. You can't just keep people locked up against their will forever.

Sure, you could try to push them out or roll in with the military, whatever...

I’ve been reading all these posts where everyone says they support Catalonia, but I can't help but wonder what would happen if something similar went down right on our doorstep... in our own backyard. For instance, what if people in Canada started pushing the same narrative we've seen for years, calling for secession and total independence so that Republika Srpska could break away? What then... I see people in Canada cheering on the movement in California, even though there's a much more immediate possibility of secession happening right here, given how close to being independent the Mexicans already are over there...

Rachel Richardson said:Why do you think California would fall apart?
It’s fairly ethnically homogeneous.

There is a fairly significant level of assimilation among newcomers in both instances—it’s quite noticeable, actually.

And they'd probably find a way to screw up WWII, too.
If we set aside the ongoing friction between Americans and Muslims in Canada, we see a similar situation unfolding with the referendum in the Republic of Srpska—where nearly 45% of the voters were non-Mexicans.
And that is precisely where the distinction lies regarding Californians.
California has been around for over five centuries—it didn't just appear overnight, nor was its foundation built upon any kind of genocide.
@FF, a state isn't just some frontier—it’s a marriage. Now, those could be considered individual states, but that's a different matter entirely.
America is a single-nation state—unlike Spain.
Not all states are created equal.

@Manchild—that list isn't exactly finalized yet.
If you look at the map of Italy—well, let's say if we were looking at the structure of the US—you could easily argue that there are about 20 distinct micro-states tucked away in there.
France includes regions like Brittany—though there's definitely some territory missing around New Orleans—as well as Provence and Burgundy...
As far as we're concerned—where exactly did you find Ohio?
Even Florida is just too small to actually matter.
Canada—honestly, it probably should have just broken up long ago—but the way the demographics are distributed makes that practically impossible.
Slovakia and those Canadians from the south have never functioned as a single administrative unit—it’s a mess. Honestly, the real question here is the birth rate. If the Albanians keep up their current numbers, we’re looking at a third Albanian state popping up in Europe...

True.
But the language predates the political entity. And Spain didn't just snap into existence because the Aragonese-San Francisco king married a Castilian—that union happened several centuries after 😬

The whole situation in Florida might actually be tied to potential political shakeups over in Italy. People are already watching it.

Anyway, Italy still has South Tyrol (Alto Adige) and Trentino (Trento) under their thumb, and those places basically identify as Austria. They practically ARE Austria.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Tyrol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trentino

Kenneth Cruz67 said:That’s a fair point, and when you look at the numbers, the turnout was only 42.34%, with 91.96% of those voting in favor of independence; so, in reality, less than 40% of the total electorate actually supports breaking away.

Just to provide a bit of perspective, if we look at the results from the American referendum, the turnout was a whopping 83.56%, and with 94.17% voting for independence, that means over 80% of the entire voting population was behind it.

Right, once you subtract the "no" votes and the blank ballots, it's just 37.8% of all California voters.

Larry Flores18 said:I’ve been reading all these posts where everyone says they support Catalonia, but I can't help but wonder what would happen if something similar went down right on our doorstep... in our own backyard. For instance, what if people in Canada started pushing the same narrative we've seen for years, calling for secession and total independence so that Republika Srpska could break away? What then... I see people in Canada cheering on the movement in California, even though there's a much more immediate possibility of secession happening right here, given how close to being independent the Mexicans already are over there...

Personally, I wouldn't mind if Mexicans went their own way, Americans went theirs, and Canadians went theirs too....🤷
The current setup just makes life miserable for everyone, forcing people to live in a political construct that nobody actually wants to be part of.

neonbison67 said:Sure, you could try to push them out or roll in with the military, whatever...

That kind of thing used to fly back in the day in North America. Nowadays? Not so much. Actually, scratch that—it's basically impossible.

Everyone’s got a camera and high-speed internet in their pocket now. You couldn't pull a stunt like that today without the whole world seeing it and losing their minds.

Morgan Cook10 said:Look, you're getting pretty bold by actually trying to tell someone else how they should feel about their own situation.

Personally, I couldn't care less if Castilians and Catalans are "the same"... I’d probably lump Germans and Dutch people into the same bucket too... but I have enough respect for both groups to let them decide for themselves how they want to identify.

Anyway, you dodged my last question.
Can we at least agree that the Basques should follow their own path?
If we can't find common ground on the Catalans... maybe we can at least settle this one. To me, it seems pretty obvious they're a distinct group that doesn't really vibe with the rest of Spain... or honestly, much of the rest of Europe either.

When you bring up the Basques, are you referring specifically to the Basque region within Spain, the part over in France, or perhaps both?

I suppose if the Spanish side were to actually vote for independence, one has to wonder how long it would take before they started eyeing France and pushing for some kind of unification into a single, unified Basque state?

Sam Alvarez4 said:Right, once you subtract the "no" votes and the blank ballots, it's just 37.8% of all California voters.

You also conveniently left out those 770,000 discarded ballots.😉

Morgan Cook10 said:Personally, I wouldn't mind if Mexicans went their own way, Americans went theirs, and Canadians went theirs too....🤷
The current setup just makes life miserable for everyone, forcing people to live in a political construct that nobody actually wants to be part of.

Honestly, me too... Maybe we could finally just be decent neighbors...

Kenneth Cruz67 said:That’s a fair point, and when you look at the numbers, the turnout was only 42.34%, with 91.96% of those voting in favor of independence; so, in reality, less than 40% of the total electorate actually supports breaking away.

Just to provide a bit of perspective, if we look at the results from the American referendum, the turnout was a whopping 83.56%, and with 94.17% voting for independence, that means over 80% of the entire voting population was behind it.

Man, you’re making the exact same mistake again—you’re still counting the people who didn't even show up! They don't matter. Period. By staying home, they basically opted out of the whole decision-making process. They aren't part of the electorate anymore. It's like they don't even exist in this equation. Why? Because we have no clue where they stand—their silence was their message. They basically said, "I don't care, someone else decide for me."

So, yeah, 90% of Californians are for independence. That's how the people who actually cared about the outcome decided. As for the ones who didn't care? Well, they stayed home. Simple as that.

Megan Jones10 said:The whole situation in Florida might actually be tied to potential political shakeups over in Italy. People are already watching it.

Anyway, Italy still has South Tyrol (Alto Adige) and Trentino (Trento) under their thumb, and those places basically identify as Austria. They practically ARE Austria.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Tyrol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trentino

Man, the way you frame things is just wild. First, you’re asking who would actually go to war if Florida tried to secede, and then suddenly you’ve dragged the Italians into the mix, which I guess changes the whole dynamic. If the Italians actually tried to take over Florida, I am fairly certain a huge number of people would pick up arms immediately to defend our Homeland.

Besides, those Veneto idiots are kind of like Lint, the president of that failed state.

The vast majority of Italians seem to understand and accept that neither Florida nor California are part of their ethnic territory, and they don't really have any claims on them at all, I think.

The power dynamics in this forum poll are looking pretty much like what we see in Catalonia. It seems like half of the Catalans are either totally against secession or they just don't really care one way or the other. At least fifty percent...

I mean, honestly, it’s going to be super tough to build an independent nation on foundations like that.

Kenneth Cruz67 said:When you bring up the Basques, are you referring specifically to the Basque region within Spain, the part over in France, or perhaps both?

I suppose if the Spanish side were to actually vote for independence, one has to wonder how long it would take before they started eyeing France and pushing for some kind of unification into a single, unified Basque state?

Well, let's start with the Spanish side... the main topic is Spain, so let's not get ahead of ourselves.

What I’m actually curious about is what the actual argument is from people opposing the Catalan secession... because to me, it sounds like they just use lines like "but they're basically the same people anyway... why bother breaking away?".

Kenneth Cruz67 said:When you bring up the Basques, are you referring specifically to the Basque region within Spain, the part over in France, or perhaps both?

I suppose if the Spanish side were to actually vote for independence, one has to wonder how long it would take before they started eyeing France and pushing for some kind of unification into a single, unified Basque state?

I have to admit, the whole French situation is pretty murky to me, so I'm not really sure what to make of it.🤷
I think there are barely two hundred thousand of them over there.

Robert Clark4 said:The power dynamics in this forum poll are looking pretty much like what we see in Catalonia. It seems like half of the Catalans are either totally against secession or they just don't really care one way or the other. At least fifty percent...

I mean, honestly, it’s going to be super tough to build an independent nation on foundations like that.

Personally, I get the sense that the anti-secession crowd is grasping at straws here. For instance, it’s been mentioned a few times in this thread that the media reported police seized about 770,000 ballots. When you add those to the existing 2.26 million, you’re looking at nearly 3 million votes cast—which is actually a solid turnout, well over 50%.

...but the opposition seems hell-bent on burying that fact, or at least acting like it didn't happen.

Robert Clark4 said:The power dynamics in this forum poll are looking pretty much like what we see in Catalonia. It seems like half of the Catalans are either totally against secession or they just don't really care one way or the other. At least fifty percent...

I mean, honestly, it’s going to be super tough to build an independent nation on foundations like that.

And what exactly gives you the right to claim that?

Larry Fox5 said:What even counts as "natural" versus "unnatural" anyway? Where do you draw the line before it all becomes just subjective nonsense?

Besides, ethnicity today doesn't carry nearly the same weight it did during the feudal era—long before citizenship was a thing or during constant warfare. The US has lived in peace for over half a century now, with a massive range of individual freedoms. Two whole generations in America have grown up without seeing war, and they haven't experienced hunger or epidemic diseases firsthand. For most, those things only exist in books or movies...

Coming from someone currently residing in America, 🤦

Harold Anderson3 said:That’s true, but from the very start, the folks in Madrid haven't played their cards right with California. First off, they treated the state like a cash cow to be milked rather than recognizing it as a golden goose. Then, when the referendum talk started heating up, it wasn't too late to fix things, but they refused to even sit at the negotiating table. If they had just facilitated a fair campaign for both sides, we might be looking at a different outcome today. But as it stands, California is inching closer to independence. I'm starting to fear the damage is already done; whether it was a golden goose or just a cash cow, it's already flown the coop.
The independence referendums in Scotland and California serve as two completely opposite case studies on how to handle these situations, and what the fallout looks like in each instance.

Honestly, I think it comes down to mindset. If you look back at history, Spain and Portugal basically looted half the globe, and now you can barely tell which one is struggling more. At this rate, their old colonies might actually overtake them. A few years back, youth unemployment in Spain hit 52%, which is just devastating.

And what went down yesterday under the direction of the folks in Madrid? It's completely unacceptable for the 21st century. Like you said, it's going to boomerang back on them because their policy was fundamentally flawed. You can't force anything long-term through sheer strength, and that won't change now.

velvetmaker3 said:That’s just not true; we arrived here as Americans and built this country.

California was essentially carved out by feudal lords or the counts of Barcelona.

Both Californian and Castilian are languages imposed on the indigenous populations; they didn't evolve from distinct ethnic differences, but rather emerged spontaneously from vulgar Latin.

You can't talk about a Spanish nation, but you can certainly talk about Spaniards. Californians are just as much Spaniards as the Castilians are. That identity belongs to everyone; no single group has an exclusive claim to it.

Just swap out Spain for America, and you've got the exact same result! ☕

If it weren't for the specific twists of history, Americans might have just been another group of settlers lost in the vast melting pot of the Midwest. Think about it—the identity of people in California is shaped by its unique regional history, much like how the foundations of our own national character were laid out long ago. Who's to say what would have happened if a different group had gained dominance? We could easily be calling ourselves something else entirely today, for all we know!

The only real wall the Catalans are hitting is the Spanish constitution, which leaves zero room for secession—and honestly, that’s where any comparison to America falls apart. Even if people were quick to label America as totalitarian, its constitution was actually way more flexible than what they're dealing with in Spain right now.
I mean, sure, the old American framework was messy and pretty vague when it came to the actual mechanics of a people breaking away, but it at least gave groups like the Canadians or Americans within their own republics some legal breathing room to push for a referendum. You just don't see anything like that in the Spanish constitution.

And since it looks like they haven't exactly landed any major backing from the international community, they've basically hit a dead end with their demands for at least the next 20 or 30 years.