urbantinker8 said:...who are essentially acting out because public schools are failing them... 🤦
I really don't have the heart to keep arguing here with people whose actual professions I know nothing about, let alone whether they have any real-world experience in education or child development, other than perhaps having sat in a classroom themselves a lifetime ago or maybe having kids who happen to be in school right now.
I wouldn't dream of telling a friend who's a dentist how she should go about fixing teeth since I don't know the first thing about dentistry. I certainly wouldn't lecture a friend who works as a judge about legal proceedings, mostly because I'm completely out of my depth there.
So, I suppose...☕
Jessica Howard5 actually opened up this discussion in a way that was both sensible and polite, even though it’s clearly a total Pandora's box, but it seems some people here are taking things entirely the wrong way.
👋
Look, all this arguing is supposed to be about trying to understand one another. We’re parents who care about how the system works. And honestly, I'm starting to think it doesn't work. As for everyone's credentials on this forum—I have a degree in economics. That doesn't mean I went to school to be a parent. There’s no such thing. I'm not a dentist, a lawyer, or an educator, so I won't debate you on technical professional levels. But sorry, folks, I am a parent of three. School is mandatory; they have to go. I'm the parent who taught my kids basic manners and instilled in them what their rights and responsibilities are. I taught them to respect authority while explaining *why* that matters. I send my kids to that school with full trust (because legally I have to, though sometimes I'd rather not), yet that school can't protect my kid from all the nonsense. Here's a quick list of that nonsense:
- total chaos with scheduling
- chaos during recess
- incompetent teachers (referring to the guys mentioned in previous posts, won't repeat myself)
- bullying from other students, and even from teachers
- a subpar curriculum
- terrible textbooks
To be clear, I don't think schools are entirely black and white; they aren't. Most kids still head to school happily. Not to mention how much standards and criteria have ramped up (specifically regarding knowledge retention) and the increasing pressure on kids. In 8th grade, it's all "where are you going, what will you do, what's your major?" High school starts at 1st grade—state exams, strict criteria... Then you educators force these standards on them—one way fails, so you push external evaluations, panic sets in, and then more pressure on the kids. It feels like our schools are stuck in the 19th century while we're living in the 21st. And please, don't tell me elementary kids need to learn complex interest rates; even my colleagues in finance struggle with that, let alone a 14-year-old.
Here's an example of a literature question from a standardized test: "What caused Judith's husband to die?" Now, you tell me, is that normal?
Of course, this matters to me as a parent, even though I'm a layman when it comes to the school system and its inner workings. But tell me, you professionals: what are you actually doing about it? What are you experts doing to change the things that are broken? The professors at the university in Chicago—who teach at the college but haven't actually managed a classroom or held a single parent-teacher conference in their lives—their assistants are just bright kids who stayed in academia right after graduation (same goes for economics and everything else). Please, just be real, be self-critical, and tell me exactly what you, as educators, are doing to fix the system.
Nobody’s actually broken down the specific procedure from that example mentioned a few posts back. Look, I’m just a layman, but I know enough about how this works.
Here's the deal: you've got warnings from a homeroom teacher, warnings from the faculty board, warnings from the principal before expulsion, and then finally, expulsion itself. Maybe my terminology isn't textbook perfect, but that's the gist. A warning can be proposed by a homeroom teacher, any instructor, or the principal. Whoever makes the proposal has to put it in writing with a justification. Then, a three-person committee is formed to review the case, call the parents in, and notify them of the proposed warning. At that point, parents have the right to file a written appeal. If they aren't happy with the outcome of that appeal, they can formally request an inspection arbitration. Once all those steps are cleared—and trust me, it’s a massive bureaucratic headache—the decision is final and set in stone. We've seen cases where kids were kicked out and sent to a different school, though sometimes they get picked up by others. Bottom line: the procedures exist, the protocols are there, and the laws and authorities are clearly defined. But you people constantly find excuses for why you "can't" or "aren't allowed" to act, or how you're too afraid of drunks and PTSD-sufferers.
What about us parents and our kids (who are more or less normal) just asking you to do your jobs correctly? Or when you don't do the job right, are we supposed to just blink and take it? Who do you think you are? Noble educators? A private little sect? Untouchable? Who are we, and what profession do we come from, to give us the right to criticize you? Imagine that attitude. My boss owns a company and he’s a machinist by trade—a damn good expert at working with materials—but he doesn't know a single thing about economics. However, he knows exactly what my work affects, and he sure as hell knows when I screw something up because it hits him right in the wallet.
So, what's the issue when we laypeople debate these problems and demand actual stances and facts from you experts? Instead, all we get is a mountain of: "I'm not here to raise your kids," "I can't," "The law won't let me," "That's just how the system works," "We are God's gift to society and we're always right while everyone else is wrong."
