Student-teacher dynamics vs. parent-teacher dynamics

Sean Fox said:I wouldn't even say he's "hardcore," I'd just say he's doing his actual job. I mean, the law clearly states his responsibilities, which include reviewing pedagogical paperwork and dropping in on classes every now and then... but then you have those principals who just sit there playing it safe (and I'm saying this strictly based on my experience with a few of them) 🙂: that's the part that absolutely drives me crazy in this job... 🙂😂🤣
I'm probably gonna get fired for talking back to my boss, so I'll let you guys know how that goes and if the system actually works or whatever. 🤣

I have to admit, things are handled properly where I am... which means my school actually falls into the category of a "good school," thank God.

Charles Murphy6 said:I have to admit, things are handled properly where I am... which means my school actually falls into the category of a "good school," thank God.

Well, lucky you then....🙂

Look, folks, we can keep this finger-pointing going until the end of time—arguing over who’s actually at fault. Is it an incompetent teacher? Or maybe just a kid with no discipline? Are the parents basically just negligent? It goes on and on like that...

It’s all pretty pointless...
when the entire system is broken.
And I mean the whole thing. Just like the country itself.☕

Basically, incompetent teachers should be under some kind of oversight. Something that isn't happening, or rather, isn't working properly (as Charles Murphy6 described to you).
A kid acting out should be handled by psychologists, or even social services, which—once again—don't function the way they ought to.
The same goes for the parents.

So, several women who work in various schools and positions have stepped up to explain how things *should* run versus how they actually fail. But I get the feeling we're just spinning our wheels here. It feels like, well, people expect teachers and professors to directly fix everything that everyone else is failing to address.

School is an educational institution.
On paper, anyway.
Is it still not clear to everyone that school is primarily meant for education? I mean, I totally get why it's like this; with the sheer volume of material being pushed through—which just gets heavier every single year—I honestly don't see when teachers would even have the time to focus on actual character building.

I don't know what it's like now, but back when I was in school, there were countless times where instead of a homeroom or advisory period, we'd just grind through more curriculum☕ because we wouldn't have finished otherwise.
So, yeah, that one single hour that's supposed to be about guidance just disappears.

And what can we actually do? We can argue until Judgment Day, bickering over who's a better educator or who's more qualified, or engage in this totally infantile back-and-forth... which I guess is what you guys are doing. Some of these posts are honestly painful to read!
And what does that solve?
Absolutely nothing.

I said it perfectly.
Starting an association would be a good beginning. Because as individuals, there isn't much we can achieve. On our own, our impact is minimal.
As individuals, we aren't going to fight to, say, reduce the number of textbooks used.

But yeah, for something like that, you have to step up. A lot of work.
It's not impossible, though. Look at the example of Quincy and the Kindergarten for All association; it started out of pure desperation and helplessness, and now it operates as a solid organization!
It's just probably easier to complain and fight on a forum. Typical American behavior.😬

I don't have the time, or perhaps the expertise, for something like that. But I am willing to help however I can. As a parent whose child will be entering an education system that I'm not satisfied with one bit.
Just like the vast majority of you here.

Charles Murphy6 said:Ela, I think there’s been a massive misunderstanding here. It would be absolutely horrific to deny a child with specific physical needs, like bladder issues, access to the restroom.
However, when it comes to kids with ADHD, I have to disagree with the idea that they should just be allowed to wander out of the classroom whenever they feel the need to blow off some steam.
Why?
Because teachers are legally responsible for those students during their class period. What if a kid decides to bolt out of the school building and something happens to them? Look, I might be speaking hypothetically, but that is a very real risk.

When I make this point, I’m specifically talking about those teachers who kick out the disruptive students just to get some peace and quiet—basically tossing them out of the room so their lesson can proceed without interruption.
But they are still held accountable for those kids.
One thing I genuinely respect is when a teacher is having an absolute nightmare of a day and just says to the class, "Look, guys, I'm having a rough one today, something bad happened and I really need you all to bear with me." I'm talking about middle schoolers here.
It’s incredible, honestly, how much empathy they show.
That is completely fair, unlike those people who walk into work stressed out from their own personal drama and let the whole school hear them screaming at the top of their lungs...

ADHD is a legitimate diagnosis, just like any kidney issue, and an hyperactive student needs a way to decompress. Schools ought to be structured to accommodate this by providing supervised outlets within the building; frankly, I believe schools in Europe have already mastered how to handle this.

Emily Gonzalez51 said:ADHD is a legitimate diagnosis, just like any kidney issue, and an hyperactive student needs a way to decompress. Schools ought to be structured to accommodate this by providing supervised outlets within the building; frankly, I believe schools in Europe have already mastered how to handle this.

Bravo, Europe.
They really messed up by grouping us Americans in with them there. 🤣

So, it’s a perfect example, I guess.
A friend of mine, who works at an elementary school, told me about a kid with what she calls "so many diagnoses"—her words, not mine—who barely managed to get an aide assigned to him.
Anyway, that child actually *does* have the option to step out of class with an aide!
So, it’s doable; it isn't impossible.
It’s honestly pretty sad and ugly that the parents had to go through hell just to get their child an aide, having to knock on every single door themselves. This is where I see a massive need for an advocacy group—to help families like this. Why should they waste precious time they desperately need for their child, begging for a right they should absolutely already have? It’s just pathetic...

And then we hit the universal mess in our schools... how they aren't really educational institutions anymore, just places for rote learning. 🙄 Everyone finds it so incredibly difficult when there's a kid like that in the school. Because they disrupt the other kids. Because they interrupt the process of pouring dry facts into those little brains. Because the other kids don't understand why they have to sit still while this one can walk around. And just to top it all off, teachers can't explain why things are the way they are except during recess, because there's simply no time left during the actual lesson. They just can't get to it. 🙄

The experts love to talk big about integrating children with disabilities into regular preschools and school programs, but when it comes down to actually making it happen—well, just like everything else—it’s a total joke. (I personally saw this happen back in preschool, when the local municipality forced a daycare to take a child with severe developmental delays into the standard program, but then refused to provide an aide or a third teacher. So the parents were out begging, then the principal was constantly pleading, and so on... eventually they approved a third teacher one year, then pulled it the next. Honestly, no. ☕)

I stumbled upon this interesting article regarding the school systems in Finland.

It is perfectly obvious why their education system ranks number one globally; they don't subject their students to the relentless, high-pressure stress found in our American schools.

Stress!!
That’s the word.
The American education system is just... stressful.
Maybe I was just high-strung—I used to shake and practically drop my phone every time I had to check my grades online, regardless of whether I actually knew the material or was totally unprepared.
Math was always my weak spot, and honestly, those math tests gave me anxiety attacks more than once. I remember one time specifically where I was shaking so hard and sweating so much that my hand cramped up—I couldn't even hold a pencil. And the worst part? I actually knew how to solve the problems.
What makes it so sad is that my teacher saw it too!!!! She saw me in that state.
And she didn't even react.

Anyway. I finished school ages ago, so I moved on with my life and ran as far away from math as possible.
But, strangely enough, I still have this recurring dream: the school year is winding down, I don't have a single math grade, I don't have a notebook, I have no clue what we're even studying, and I start panicking about how I'm ever going to pass this miserable class.
😲
🤣

Our educational system and the way they grade knowledge is just wonderful. Truly. 🙄

Emily Gonzalez51 said:I stumbled upon this interesting article regarding the school systems in Finland.

It is perfectly obvious why their education system ranks number one globally; they don't subject their students to the relentless, high-pressure stress found in our American schools.

This is a really solid piece... I’d just highlight one specific part:
"... Furthermore, we cannot expect a high-quality school system that produces happy, fulfilled students if we don't have good, satisfied, well-paid, and respected teachers..."
I think that pretty much sums up the core issue.

Paul Wilson72 said:This is a really solid piece... I’d just highlight one specific part:
"... Furthermore, we cannot expect a high-quality school system that produces happy, fulfilled students if we don't have good, satisfied, well-paid, and respected teachers..."
I think that pretty much sums up the core issue.

The chicken or the egg. It’s the same old loop, over and over again. 🙂

Just giving you all an update on how we’re handling the ongoing issues at our school. I’ve actually detailed the whole thing over on my blog, including that piece from the New York Times—I really liked their take on it. Like I mentioned before, the administration finally decided to address this mess after years of dragging their feet. Of course, they only started acting once we parents made enough noise and I started blogging about it. We’ve collectively decided there’s no more playing nice, and honestly, the school finally seems to have taken the hint. Everyone’s suddenly acting a lot more cooperative and ready to actually fix things. I’m counting that as a bit of a win for me personally. Sure, plenty of bile was spilled and some pretty harsh words were thrown around because parents were so frustrated, but I managed to de-escalate things during the last PTA meeting, and things are finally moving in the right direction. We made it crystal clear to the principal that we expect him to actually exercise his authority, and we told the specialists to just do their damn jobs properly. We gave them a deadline of "right now, no excuses," and things have improved. During the meeting, we made sure to state that we aren't expecting the boy's parents to change anything—they’ve been pleading with them since first grade, and all it did was make things worse. We simply told the school to stick to the legal frameworks for resolving these issues, listed exactly what those boundaries are, and wrapped up the meeting. And again, for now, we’re seeing actual results.
P.S. Naturally, we demanded that the school counselors, psychologists, and special education experts work constantly with everyone involved in this case—both the victims and the accused—to keep the situation under control and ensure a permanent fix.

Way to go, Jessica Howard5.
Just don't let up for a second. You have to keep applying the pressure, relentlessly.
From here on out, every single interaction needs to be in writing if you all stand together as a group of parents.
I’m actually relieved to see things finally starting to shift. And you know why?
Because they’re terrified for their own skins now, and frankly, they deserve it.
I'm not entirely sure if they've officially approved a teacher's aide in your district yet.
If they haven't, then you absolutely have to hammer them on it. The school is obligated to push for that support, and there should be someone sitting with that student during class and even through breaks just to take some of this weight off your shoulders.

Peter Doyle2 said:Stress!!
That’s the word.
The American education system is just... stressful.
Maybe I was just high-strung—I used to shake and practically drop my phone every time I had to check my grades online, regardless of whether I actually knew the material or was totally unprepared.
Math was always my weak spot, and honestly, those math tests gave me anxiety attacks more than once. I remember one time specifically where I was shaking so hard and sweating so much that my hand cramped up—I couldn't even hold a pencil. And the worst part? I actually knew how to solve the problems.
What makes it so sad is that my teacher saw it too!!!! She saw me in that state.
And she didn't even react.

Anyway. I finished school ages ago, so I moved on with my life and ran as far away from math as possible.
But, strangely enough, I still have this recurring dream: the school year is winding down, I don't have a single math grade, I don't have a notebook, I have no clue what we're even studying, and I start panicking about how I'm ever going to pass this miserable class.
😲
🤣

Our educational system and the way they grade knowledge is just wonderful. Truly. 🙄

You hit the nail on the head😂, it’s the exact same story for me. I still have dreams that I haven't even finished college yet, and don't even get me started on the math...

Charles Murphy6 said:Way to go, Jessica Howard5.
Just don't let up for a second. You have to keep applying the pressure, relentlessly.
From here on out, every single interaction needs to be in writing if you all stand together as a group of parents.
I’m actually relieved to see things finally starting to shift. And you know why?
Because they’re terrified for their own skins now, and frankly, they deserve it.
I'm not entirely sure if they've officially approved a teacher's aide in your district yet.
If they haven't, then you absolutely have to hammer them on it. The school is obligated to push for that support, and there should be someone sitting with that student during class and even through breaks just to take some of this weight off your shoulders.

Also, I forgot to say thanks. I used a lot of your advice and tips to deal with my own issues, and I gotta say, it helped a ton. Thanks again.😉

Paul Wilson72 said:This is a really solid piece... I’d just highlight one specific part:
"... Furthermore, we cannot expect a high-quality school system that produces happy, fulfilled students if we don't have good, satisfied, well-paid, and respected teachers..."
I think that pretty much sums up the core issue.

Off-topic for a sec. Educators really need to realize they aren't living in some little bubble. Everything being put off at the national level eventually trickles down to them too. 🤷 Until things stabilize in the private sector, those working on the government payroll won't see any real prosperity either. There just isn't any money to go around.

Then again, plenty of other professions aren't getting decent pay or much respect either, which makes it hard to feel satisfied. But they just have to swallow that frustration and do their absolute best because, well, they have bills to pay. Teachers are just one piece of the puzzle—an important one, sure, but still tied to everyone else.

And honestly, respect is a two-way street. It shouldn't just be handed out automatically because of a job title; you have to earn it. I’ll be real, though—I have a hard time respecting people who tie their self-worth (or anyone else's) to a paycheck (which, in this country, rarely reflects actual professional skill anyway). Wouldn't it be a total disaster if professors only showed respect to parents with deep pockets and looked down on everyone else?

Karen Richardson3 said:rhino, I’ve been thinking—have you actually seen any real progress or positive shifts when dealing with those kids coming from really troubled, high-conflict homes?

Like, does anyone have an actual success story where things actually worked out?

Because honestly, the whole mess just boils down to this: you've got parents who are understandably stressed out, demanding that the school step in and protect their kids if they're being bullied.
Then you've got teachers feeling totally helpless because they can't seem to stop the violence or keep the kids safe.
(And while we're at it, I'm curious about the actual protocol here—like, what happens when a kid just snaps and starts hitting another student in class? What is a teacher legally required to do? Is there some specific handbook or set of regulations that dictates how to handle these situations?)

So, basically, the parents end up pointing fingers at the teachers and the school administration.
The school, in turn, points fingers at the police and the US Navy.
But what can those agencies even do? Which brings me right back to my original question.

I actually know how one story ended at a local elementary school over in Seattle. There was this student who was terrorizing everyone else; his parents were constantly breathing down the school's neck to do something, but the kid was out of control—he brought a knife to school, made death threats, even choked a classmate... it was constant drama that stayed in the local news for years. It was the textbook definition of a broken home: no mother in the picture, father is completely checked out, and he's a PTSD-sufferer struggling with alcoholism.
Eventually, the father just pulled his son out of school entirely, claiming they were moving to another country. Later on, the school tried reaching out to this supposed new school overseas, but it turns out the kid was never even enrolled there.
As for the school and the US Navy, they completely lost track of him. He's somewhere out there with his abusive father, and nobody has any clue where they went.

Of course there are success stories. There is definitely progress to be made.
It usually happens when people don't just get stuck on the child's negative behavior—spiraling into endless paperwork about everything the kid does wrong during class—but instead look for the student's strengths and focus on building those up.
It’s also about moving away from the "who's to blame" or "what should have been done" mindset, and instead stepping up with a proactive attitude: "What can *I* do right now to change this situation, and how am I going to make it happen?"
Plus, it helps to have a clear understanding of what the school can realistically handle versus what falls under the jurisdiction of NASA or local law enforcement.

urbantinker8 said:...who are essentially acting out because public schools are failing them... 🤦

I really don't have the heart to keep arguing here with people whose actual professions I know nothing about, let alone whether they have any real-world experience in education or child development, other than perhaps having sat in a classroom themselves a lifetime ago or maybe having kids who happen to be in school right now.
I wouldn't dream of telling a friend who's a dentist how she should go about fixing teeth since I don't know the first thing about dentistry. I certainly wouldn't lecture a friend who works as a judge about legal proceedings, mostly because I'm completely out of my depth there.
So, I suppose...☕
Jessica Howard5 actually opened up this discussion in a way that was both sensible and polite, even though it’s clearly a total Pandora's box, but it seems some people here are taking things entirely the wrong way.

👋

I can understand why some might feel that only teachers can truly empathize with the specific struggles of the classroom. But if you're genuinely looking for fresh perspectives or new ways to tackle a problem, why would you shut out the views of a hairstylist, an electrician, a chef, or a dentist? Even if they aren't educators, anyone who spent at least eight years in the American school system or has kids navigating it can offer something valuable. You don't have to agree with them or adopt their advice, but seeing things from an outside perspective can help you realize things you might have missed, potentially helping you break out of that "nothing ever changes" cycle.
When you close your eyes to other viewpoints and walk away from the conversation, it feels like you're saying you don't care and have no desire to improve the status quo.
Honestly, after seeing a few interventions from the moderators, it makes me wonder: do you act this way in real life too, shutting down anyone who isn't in your profession or doesn't share your exact opinion? 🤔

Rhino, I really appreciate you putting this out there. Around here, it’s always this endless debate between "outsiders" and "experts." Most of those experts—aside from a handful who actually bother to answer specific questions with logic—just spend their time shouting that things are impossible or that we're powerless. I honestly wish these debates were based on actual arguments. If I, as an outsider, bring up a situation or ask a question because I want a professional opinion, I expect a clear, reasoned response. Even if the answer is "no, it can't be done," they should explain the concrete reasons why.
What's even more annoying are the self-important "educators" who act like school exists just to serve them, rather than the kids. Conflict between parents and schools only happens because communication is broken. Both sides walk into the room with preconceived notions about the other, assuming they already know what the other person thinks or how they'll react. Everyone involved needs to get serious about fixing that communication.

Susan James said:Of course there are success stories. There is definitely progress to be made.
It usually happens when people don't just get stuck on the child's negative behavior—spiraling into endless paperwork about everything the kid does wrong during class—but instead look for the student's strengths and focus on building those up.
It’s also about moving away from the "who's to blame" or "what should have been done" mindset, and instead stepping up with a proactive attitude: "What can *I* do right now to change this situation, and how am I going to make it happen?"
Plus, it helps to have a clear understanding of what the school can realistically handle versus what falls under the jurisdiction of NASA or local law enforcement.

I can understand why some might feel that only teachers can truly empathize with the specific struggles of the classroom. But if you're genuinely looking for fresh perspectives or new ways to tackle a problem, why would you shut out the views of a hairstylist, an electrician, a chef, or a dentist? Even if they aren't educators, anyone who spent at least eight years in the American school system or has kids navigating it can offer something valuable. You don't have to agree with them or adopt their advice, but seeing things from an outside perspective can help you realize things you might have missed, potentially helping you break out of that "nothing ever changes" cycle.
When you close your eyes to other viewpoints and walk away from the conversation, it feels like you're saying you don't care and have no desire to improve the status quo.
Honestly, after seeing a few interventions from the moderators, it makes me wonder: do you act this way in real life too, shutting down anyone who isn't in your profession or doesn't share your exact opinion? 🤔

I honestly can't tell from your post 😕 exactly how much hands-on experience you actually have dealing with these kinds of cases as a psychologist.

In Denmark, when a kid is struggling, they implement actual family therapy rather than just leaving individuals to wander around wondering what they might be able to do about it.

Jessica Howard5 said:Also, I forgot to say thanks. I used a lot of your advice and tips to deal with my own issues, and I gotta say, it helped a ton. Thanks again.😉

I'm just glad I could be of some help, even if it was only a little bit.🙂

[

Charles Murphy6 said:Check out this post
Of course there's progress being made here. It’s obvious.
These are the cases where parents actually stop obsessing over every single mistake their kid makes during school hours and instead look for what they're doing right to reinforce those positive behaviors.
They aren't just sitting around whining about who should do what or pointing fingers at who is to blame; they're stepping up with the mindset of: "What can I personally do to fix this situation, and how am I going to make it happen?"

To be clear, looking at this equation, I don't see any involvement from the parents or even the school psychologist. Everything is being dumped squarely on the teacher's shoulders—they're either logging every little infraction the kid commits during class or wondering how they can somehow fix everything themselves.
It's as if we're treating the teacher like some sort of superhero who can single-handedly resolve deep-seated psychological traumas.

I'm sorry, I didn't quite catch that! It looks like you might have sent an incomplete message or just a single word. If there was something specific you wanted to chat about or a post you wanted me to look at, just let me know—I'm all ears! kaže:
How much have you actually gotten involved in cases like this in your work as a psychologist? 😕 I can't quite get a clear sense of what's going on from this post.

In Denmark, when a kid starts acting out, they don't just leave parents to sit around wondering what they could have done differently. Instead, they step in with family therapy to tackle the issue head-on.

Do I really need to hand over my full resume, my current office address, my kids' names, their whole family tree, and even my shoe size just to have an equal seat at the table in this discussion?

☕

In Denmark, just like anywhere else in the States, psychotherapy is entirely voluntary. It’s something people choose to do when they feel ready and actually want the support, rather than something being forced upon them by anyone else.
I truly believe that real change in psychotherapy only starts to happen when we stop looking outward and start asking the individual: "What are you actually willing to do for yourself?" It’s about shifting that focus back to personal agency and what someone truly wants for their own life.
Even a psychotherapist—and that's true whether they're from here or even from Denmark—doesn't possess any kind of magic powers.

I'm sorry, I didn't quite catch that! It looks like your message might have been cut off. Feel free to send over whatever you were working on, and I'll be happy to help you get it polished up! kaže:
[

Just to clarify my point here—looking at this equation, I don't see any mention of parental involvement or the input from a school psychologist. It feels like everything is being placed solely on the teacher's shoulders. They’re either stuck just logging how many mistakes a kid makes during class, or they're left wondering what else they can possibly do to help.
It feels like some teachers act like they have superpowers, thinking they can just single-handedly fix everything or sweep away any fallout from their actions. Honestly, who knows what kind of deep-seated issues or past traumas might be driving that need to be all-powerful?

Guys, please—read between the lines!
If you honestly believe that only teachers play a role in this, while psychologists and parents are somehow excluded from the equation, then I think we’ve reached a bit of an impasse.

Hey, let me re-read my post one more time. I’m curious—what makes you think I was only talking about teachers? I never claimed they were all-powerful, nor did I say that anyone has the ability or the obligation to fix every single trauma someone might be dealing with.