Student-teacher dynamics vs. parent-teacher dynamics

Jessica Howard5 said:I remember those types of characters from back then, too. I remember fights breaking out right in front of the school because kids from other schools showed up specifically to scrap. There was never a shortage of reasons—losing an interscholastic game, some girl walking with a guy from our school... it was always happening (unfortunately), and it’ll keep happening. But that stuff happened both inside and outside of school, and that's a police matter. Same goes for neighborhood gangs; they've always existed and always will. That's also a police matter. What actually worries me is how indifferent schools have become toward handling problems within their own walls. Nowadays, it's become trendy to say, "We can't," "We aren't allowed," "We don't have the authority..." or "That's not our business, we aren't here to raise other people's kids..."
That's what bugs me. Invoking the "old days" only works in the sense that back then, schools actually knew how, wanted to, and were able to deal with things. What has actually changed about kids from then to now? Almost nothing. They're basically the same, just with smartphones and TVs added to the mix...
Bottom line: the kids haven't changed much, but the schools have (in terms of approach, willpower, and problem-solving). So let's stop judging the kids. They need help—every single one of them, including both the victims and the bullies. I just think that with the increasingly common attitude among educators that this isn't their job or responsibility, we're seeing worse and worse results, and the gap between the two groups of kids and their parents is just widening.

I'm not quite sure why you aren't actually reading what people are saying here.
I guess all the effort in the world won't matter if the parents refuse to work with us.
If the parents of even one—and let's be honest, there are way too many—troublemaker decide they don't want to cooperate, the whole classroom atmosphere can just fall apart.
Believe me, this idea that looking after these kids isn't our responsibility is just an empty stereotype, and it seems like maybe you've fallen for it too.

Look, I’ve seen an example of this before—I won't name the school or the town, but here's the deal. One principal decided to turn a single room on campus into a sort of "school jail." Here’s how it worked: if a kid was disrupting class or causing chaos during recess, they’d get hauled into that room. Then, the parents would be called in immediately to pick up their child and hear exactly what went down. This wasn't some rogue move, either; it was announced at a PTA meeting, and every parent there agreed it was fine. It actually happened three times. Once those kids went through it, things settled down. I'm not saying I'm totally okay with it, but I am saying it works. When you have to show up at the principal's office three times because of your kid's behavior, you start making sure they behave better at home just to avoid the hassle.

Jessica Howard5 said:Look, I’ve seen an example of this before—I won't name the school or the town, but here's the deal. One principal decided to turn a single room on campus into a sort of "school jail." Here’s how it worked: if a kid was disrupting class or causing chaos during recess, they’d get hauled into that room. Then, the parents would be called in immediately to pick up their child and hear exactly what went down. This wasn't some rogue move, either; it was announced at a PTA meeting, and every parent there agreed it was fine. It actually happened three times. Once those kids went through it, things settled down. I'm not saying I'm totally okay with it, but I am saying it works. When you have to show up at the principal's office three times because of your kid's behavior, you start making sure they behave better at home just to avoid the hassle.

Yeah, I know a similar situation. I won't name the school, but when a kid disrupts class, they get packed up immediately. The principal calls the parents and sends the kid home. That works too.

urbantinker8 said:I'm not quite sure why you aren't actually reading what people are saying here.
I guess all the effort in the world won't matter if the parents refuse to work with us.
If the parents of even one—and let's be honest, there are way too many—troublemaker decide they don't want to cooperate, the whole classroom atmosphere can just fall apart.
Believe me, this idea that looking after these kids isn't our responsibility is just an empty stereotype, and it seems like maybe you've fallen for it too.

Sorry frupy, but those stereotypes mostly come from the "enlightened" types, including some folks on this very forum. Just skim a few threads and you'll see what I mean. Again, they're probably the minority, but they're loud enough to make it seem otherwise.

My stance remains the same based on experience. You're right about the parents and the lack of cooperation; it's happened before and it'll happen again. More and more parents are checking out. So, I'm asking all you "experts" and "pros": can a school actually fix this? Is there a legal way? Is there any actual will to do it? Can extreme cases that a school can't handle be handed off to another agency or authority? And don't tell me that if a parent refuses to help when their kid is terrorizing a classroom, the school is just supposed to sit there and take it. Is that really how it works? Because if it is, our society is in serious trouble.

Jessica Howard5 said:Sorry frupy, but those stereotypes mostly come from the "enlightened" types, including some folks on this very forum. Just skim a few threads and you'll see what I mean. Again, they're probably the minority, but they're loud enough to make it seem otherwise.

My stance remains the same based on experience. You're right about the parents and the lack of cooperation; it's happened before and it'll happen again. More and more parents are checking out. So, I'm asking all you "experts" and "pros": can a school actually fix this? Is there a legal way? Is there any actual will to do it? Can extreme cases that a school can't handle be handed off to another agency or authority? And don't tell me that if a parent refuses to help when their kid is terrorizing a classroom, the school is just supposed to sit there and take it. Is that really how it works? Because if it is, our society is in serious trouble.

Not quite.
On paper, we have certain authorities, but institutions tend to get very quiet when you're dealing with someone suffering from severe PTSD, a notorious criminal, or some local big shot, and so on.
The buck gets passed from one office to another, and you never see any real results.
So, I guess the most accurate way to put it would be: we have some authority, but it feels like we don't have any at all.

urbantinker8 said:Not quite.
On paper, we have certain authorities, but institutions tend to get very quiet when you're dealing with someone suffering from severe PTSD, a notorious criminal, or some local big shot, and so on.
The buck gets passed from one office to another, and you never see any real results.
So, I guess the most accurate way to put it would be: we have some authority, but it feels like we don't have any at all.

Yeah, I agree with a lot of that. Why the hell do directors even take jobs they're clearly afraid of? I know a director in Indianapolis who isn't intimidated by anything. The guy was in the National Guard—they served together—he’s an expert diver, absolute beast of a man. I don't have an issue with those kinds of authorities either. For me, it's like this: tycoons and criminals don't faze me. At PTA meetings, I look parents right in the eye and tell them exactly what I think, though unfortunately, I get very little support from the other parents. Everyone acts brave before the meeting starts—all smart people, "we need this," "we need that"—but try actually saying it. When I finally speak up, and the teacher or the principal asks if anyone else agrees, everyone suddenly finds something very interesting to look at on the floor or out the window.
That's just how we handle authority. Sadly, it's just the way it is.

urbantinker8 said:I'm not quite sure why you aren't actually reading what people are saying here.
I guess all the effort in the world won't matter if the parents refuse to work with us.
If the parents of even one—and let's be honest, there are way too many—troublemaker decide they don't want to cooperate, the whole classroom atmosphere can just fall apart.
Believe me, this idea that looking after these kids isn't our responsibility is just an empty stereotype, and it seems like maybe you've fallen for it too.

But what does "cooperation" actually look like to you or the teachers? How exactly would a cooperative parent change the vibe in the classroom? In what way would that actually make your job easier?
Has anyone here actually dealt with a supportive parent who managed to turn things around in class? What did that process look like for you? 🙂

Susan James said:But what does "cooperation" actually look like to you or the teachers? How exactly would a cooperative parent change the vibe in the classroom? In what way would that actually make your job easier?
Has anyone here actually dealt with a supportive parent who managed to turn things around in class? What did that process look like for you? 🙂

I’m interested too, but let me give you my take based on experience. I show up to conferences regularly—every other week, twice a month. I know most parents only care about grades, but I want to know how my kids are acting in class and how they get along with their peers. Grades come second; I only bring up excuses if something actually needs justifying. If a teacher tells me my kid is restless, disrupting the lesson, talking over people, or having beef with other students... then I step in. That's when I work on correcting the behavior. To me, that's what parent-school cooperation looks like. And I expect the same from the school—that they actually address and correct my child's behavior while they're on campus.
This seems to be aimed at the parents (presumably) who don't bother doing that. I know plenty of kids who are straight-A geniuses but act like total disasters during class or in the halls. Most of their parents couldn't care less because the grades are fine, and they just don't give a damn about anything else. That's the problem, in my opinion.

I honestly believe most parents who barely interact with the school—only checking in when things go sideways—rely on coffee shop gossip rather than actual facts. They really need to rethink how they view both the educational system and their own kids' roles within it. Since these parents act like experts on how to handle discipline, how to "collaborate" during class, or how to be the perfect "friend" to their child, maybe it’s time for a reality check. I think a "Parent-Teacher Day" program would be an eye-opener. Let them step in for a day, a week, or even longer to demonstrate those "exceptional skills." But there’s one catch: they shouldn't get a class they already know or have influenced. If we gave them a group of students they haven't already "trained," they’d basically just be a substitute teacher. Then we’d see how much they actually know... ☕

Susan James said:But what does "cooperation" actually look like to you or the teachers? How exactly would a cooperative parent change the vibe in the classroom? In what way would that actually make your job easier?
Has anyone here actually dealt with a supportive parent who managed to turn things around in class? What did that process look like for you? 🙂

Well, for instance, instead of telling a kid, "Son, study if you feel like it, it's not mandatory," or "Dad will cover for you if you don't want to go to school today," parents should focus on:
1. Developing strong work habits. This means every child needs their own dedicated desk for studying and a set daily routine that includes specific time allocated for learning.

2. Instead of asking, "What grade did you get?", they should ask, "What did you learn today?" and then actually discuss the subject matter (this helps kids realize they aren't just a collection of GPA numbers).

3. For students who struggle, parents need to regularly check their notebooks, because those kids often spend the entire class period doing absolutely nothing.

I haven't dealt with any "problematic" straight-A students.

Paul Wilson72 said:I honestly believe most parents who barely interact with the school—only checking in when things go sideways—rely on coffee shop gossip rather than actual facts. They really need to rethink how they view both the educational system and their own kids' roles within it. Since these parents act like experts on how to handle discipline, how to "collaborate" during class, or how to be the perfect "friend" to their child, maybe it’s time for a reality check. I think a "Parent-Teacher Day" program would be an eye-opener. Let them step in for a day, a week, or even longer to demonstrate those "exceptional skills." But there’s one catch: they shouldn't get a class they already know or have influenced. If we gave them a group of students they haven't already "trained," they’d basically just be a substitute teacher. Then we’d see how much they actually know... ☕

Interesting theory. 🤣 But what would that actually prove? That parents who act like experts over coffee would be totally lost if you actually put them in front of a chalkboard? Of course they would. They aren't trained educators. Most of them would fail miserably. So what, we're just supposed to stay quiet? Bite our tongues while kids struggle through a broken system and let the school take the fall for everything?
What happens when an individual teacher fails? What happens when the school administration fails to solve a problem? What happens when parents fail at home, and then the school fails too? Should the rest of us just sit there and suffer in silence while the kids deal with the fallout? I don't get why teachers can't handle even the slightest criticism. Why is it such a massive deal to say the education system isn't working? Even the teachers themselves see it's failing; they talk about it constantly, yet they do absolutely nothing to change it. 🙂

rowdypanther12 said:🤷
I don't really see how that would be enough to make my parents change how they handle things.
But even if it was, you're still basically giving a kid a free week to just sit around, watch TV, and surf the web—assuming the parents can even keep them in the house long enough to supervise them.🤷

The whole point of suspending kids from class is this:
Even when they aren't physically in school, they still have to learn all the material. And guess who's stuck doing that? The parents. They'd basically have to take a vacation day just to sit there and tutor their kids through everything. So, the idea isn't to kick kids out so they can just veg out in front of the TV. Obviously, no parent wants that extra work, so they'd actually have to put in some effort with the kids...
People claim this works great over in Europe....
I honestly have no clue how that would fly here in the States, because let's be real, nothing ever works quite right in this country....

Jessica Howard5 said:Sorry frupy, but those stereotypes mostly come from the "enlightened" types, including some folks on this very forum. Just skim a few threads and you'll see what I mean. Again, they're probably the minority, but they're loud enough to make it seem otherwise.

My stance remains the same based on experience. You're right about the parents and the lack of cooperation; it's happened before and it'll happen again. More and more parents are checking out. So, I'm asking all you "experts" and "pros": can a school actually fix this? Is there a legal way? Is there any actual will to do it? Can extreme cases that a school can't handle be handed off to another agency or authority? And don't tell me that if a parent refuses to help when their kid is terrorizing a classroom, the school is just supposed to sit there and take it. Is that really how it works? Because if it is, our society is in serious trouble.

Regarding what a school can actually do...
let me give you a firsthand example... a 6th grader just stops showing up. Kids see her hanging out around town—it's a red flag.
We call the parents and set up a team meeting: parents, a counselor, a specialist, the teacher, and a social worker from the Department of Social Services she's already involved with... we warn them and give them advice on how to stop the kid from being labeled.
To make a long story short, the parents have two older sons—one is in juvenile detention and the other is straight-up in prison.
Nothing happens, so we report the case to the Department of Social Services...
we sit down with the social worker
still nothing. So, I report it to City Hall because they're the ones who can trigger legal proceedings immediately as... 😂🤣
The parents were hit with $67 fines 😂...🤣😂
the old man is constantly yelling and acting drunk at the school...
the little girl ends up taking her final exams, but fails the grade because she doesn't even show up...
She moves on to 7th grade, but only makes it seven days into the school year...
Every single day, I am calling home, the Department of Social Services, and City Hall...
We are trying everything to get this girl away from her toxic family because she's incredibly smart and actually a really good kid... but get this, the absurdity of it all! We basically have to send her to Brooklyn first just to get anyone to consider separating her from the home...
The old folks just keep repeating, "Just send her to a group home..." The girl would be saved if she was placed with a normal family that actually has running water and stuff... obviously, the parents would be rewarded too, but whatever... the kid matters more than that...
And I'm still here, making calls and writing memos...
That's what I've managed to achieve in all this time... and I really fought for her, but in this country, nothing works... In the end, another kid is ruined and nobody cares... so yeah, that's the reality of what a school can actually do.

That’s all there is to it... Thanks, Anne!

And then people blame the kids. Honestly, kids are just a reflection of us.😢 Whatever they learn at home, they carry out into the streets, their friend groups, and school.

As for suspensions, here in the States, we usually talk about "in-school suspension" for the younger grades. It's more about discipline—like if a kid can't sit still in class. Instead of playing during recess, they stay in the room with a teacher's aide to finish lunch or work on reading and math. Basically, the "punishment" happens that very same day.

Jessica Howard5 said:Interesting theory. 🤣 But what would that actually prove? That parents who act like experts over coffee would be totally lost if you actually put them in front of a chalkboard? Of course they would. They aren't trained educators. Most of them would fail miserably. So what, we're just supposed to stay quiet? Bite our tongues while kids struggle through a broken system and let the school take the fall for everything?
What happens when an individual teacher fails? What happens when the school administration fails to solve a problem? What happens when parents fail at home, and then the school fails too? Should the rest of us just sit there and suffer in silence while the kids deal with the fallout? I don't get why teachers can't handle even the slightest criticism. Why is it such a massive deal to say the education system isn't working? Even the teachers themselves see it's failing; they talk about it constantly, yet they do absolutely nothing to change it. 🙂

No, I honestly believe that any parent could manage the actual curriculum themselves if they really tried—it’s not exactly rocket science. In my view, parents would fail most spectacularly in the very area where they complain about teachers the most: "parenting." That isn't the school's responsibility, and frankly, no teacher training program in the country can fix how a child behaves at home or solve classroom dynamics through sheer pedagogy. Teachers are essentially working with their hands tied behind their backs. As I’ve said before, no matter how much effort they put in, there simply aren't the legal avenues to take decisive action. If they try to push too hard, all they end up doing is provoking the wrath of parents and students. They end up creating problems for themselves that a teacher earning a high salary truly doesn't need—only to be criticized by everyone the following day.
There are plenty of other reasons why that extra week matters for teachers. It’s a chance for people to finally see and realize that our job isn't just about those few hours spent standing in front of a classroom. Our actual working hours are significantly longer. And let’s be honest—we aren't exactly getting paid for the Saturdays and Sundays we spend grading exams or drafting new ones. Then there's the lesson planning. Believe me, you don't just plan for a subject; you plan for the specific class. You could teach the exact same course, in the same department, to the same grade level just one year later, and the experience will be night and day. One group gets it all right away—they're brilliant—but the next generation might struggle with absolutely nothing. Same professor, same teaching style, yet a completely different result. So, what then?

Jessica Howard5 said:Interesting theory. 🤣 But what would that actually prove? That parents who act like experts over coffee would be totally lost if you actually put them in front of a chalkboard? Of course they would. They aren't trained educators. Most of them would fail miserably. So what, we're just supposed to stay quiet? Bite our tongues while kids struggle through a broken system and let the school take the fall for everything?
What happens when an individual teacher fails? What happens when the school administration fails to solve a problem? What happens when parents fail at home, and then the school fails too? Should the rest of us just sit there and suffer in silence while the kids deal with the fallout? I don't get why teachers can't handle even the slightest criticism. Why is it such a massive deal to say the education system isn't working? Even the teachers themselves see it's failing; they talk about it constantly, yet they do absolutely nothing to change it. 🙂

Honestly, my heart goes out most to the kids who are genuinely good—the ones who are smart, eager to learn, and hungry for more than what the standard curriculum offers. They rarely get any recognition unless they’re winning some big competition. Instead, they become the default scapegoats for everything. When there are systemic issues, when teachers are quitting in droves, when the curriculum falls behind, or when the classroom turns into chaos, these students always end up catching the fallout. As someone else pointed out, it’s incredibly rare for a straight-A student to actually have behavioral issues. Yet, somehow, the teachers end up resenting the kids who are just struggling to keep their heads above water. It’s unfair, and it unfairly colors how both the students and their parents are perceived. But even beyond grades, there are those quiet, polite kids who might not grasp every concept immediately but are perfectly well-behaved. Their calm nature often gives the troublemakers an opening to act out. I really believe the responsibility lies with the teachers here. A teacher is expected to deliver complex material, maintain discipline, and somehow find individual time for every single student to address their personal struggles at school or home. You couldn't pull that off if you were Superman, let alone in a forty-five-minute period. Maybe some people won't get where I'm coming from—I know many of you are dealing with elementary schoolers—but I'm talking about high school. These are teenagers between 14 and 19 years old. We can't dismiss them as being "childish" or incapable of understanding that certain behaviors simply aren't acceptable in a classroom.
The education system is broken, honestly. But I don't blame teachers as individuals; the fault lies with a system that has stripped them of authority, placing them in a subordinate position compared to their students. I completely understand why some choose to just stay out of it and do the bare minimum. They know ahead of time that if they try to address a student's behavior or grading issues, they’ll be the ones labeled as the problem instead of the kid. What's the point? Until the laws and regulations regarding student rights and obligations are overhauled—so that we can actually take action against problematic behavior—it is utterly pointless to blame teachers for how a student acts in class. A student's behavior is a direct reflection of their upbringing at home. Any homeroom teacher will tell you that once you get to know both the parents and the child, the connection becomes obvious. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, whether that's for better or worse.

Hmm, regarding how teachers react—let's look at the bigger picture. Gas prices go up, and truck drivers don't protest; milk prices spike, and people don't react; sales tax increases, and there's silence. Actually, I'd say people *do* try to react, but their voices are ignored, much like certain posts on this thread. The government simply refuses to hear anything that doesn't suit its agenda. It's the same with the Department of Education; they don't want to admit when things are failing, and when individuals write open letters, they rarely receive a response. Nothing ever changes.

At the end of the day, Jessica Howard5, as much as I understand that you are fighting against violent students in your school and organizing parents, what have you actually managed to achieve? That is exactly what teachers face when they try to make a difference. You feel like nobody in the school is doing anything, while teachers feel like the people at the federal level haven't even stepped foot in a classroom to see the reality of the situation.

Emily Gonzalez51 said:Well, for instance, instead of telling a kid, "Son, study if you feel like it, it's not mandatory," or "Dad will cover for you if you don't want to go to school today," parents should focus on:
1. Developing strong work habits. This means every child needs their own dedicated desk for studying and a set daily routine that includes specific time allocated for learning.

2. Instead of asking, "What grade did you get?", they should ask, "What did you learn today?" and then actually discuss the subject matter (this helps kids realize they aren't just a collection of GPA numbers).

3. For students who struggle, parents need to regularly check their notebooks, because those kids often spend the entire class period doing absolutely nothing.

I haven't dealt with any "problematic" straight-A students.

1. A parent who is struggling personally isn't going to make that happen. If someone is dealing with alcoholism at home, how can they be expected to instill discipline or study habits? Or if a parent is never around because they're working three jobs, how is that supposed to work?

2. How can we expect a parent who is completely overwhelmed by their own life struggles to sit down and have deep conversations about schoolwork and learning? Does that parent even have the mental bandwidth for it? And besides, who is going to teach the parents how to communicate effectively with their kids? Your example is just one in a million.
I honestly think *how* you talk to them matters more than the specific topic.
The real issue is that there’s no guidance for parents. Everyone is looking for an instant fix—something they can solve by tomorrow—but this is a long-term process that can take years.

3. You seem to think having neat notebooks is a prerequisite for staying focused in class or being a well-behaved student, but how does tidying up a notebook actually achieve that?
What is a parent supposed to do with a son who doesn't write anything down during class at all?

And do you really think straight-A students can't be troublemakers too? I've had totally different experiences with that. They absolutely can be, but then teachers often don't know how to handle them, which sends a message not just to the top students, but to the whole class.
Of course, one of those messages is: "At this school, the only thing that matters is academic performance..."
And that brings us back to the big question: Is school meant to be a place for holistic development, or is it strictly just for academics? 🙂

Susan James said:1. A parent who is struggling personally isn't going to make that happen. If someone is dealing with alcoholism at home, how can they be expected to instill discipline or study habits? Or if a parent is never around because they're working three jobs, how is that supposed to work?

2. How can we expect a parent who is completely overwhelmed by their own life struggles to sit down and have deep conversations about schoolwork and learning? Does that parent even have the mental bandwidth for it? And besides, who is going to teach the parents how to communicate effectively with their kids? Your example is just one in a million.
I honestly think *how* you talk to them matters more than the specific topic.
The real issue is that there’s no guidance for parents. Everyone is looking for an instant fix—something they can solve by tomorrow—but this is a long-term process that can take years.

3. You seem to think having neat notebooks is a prerequisite for staying focused in class or being a well-behaved student, but how does tidying up a notebook actually achieve that?
What is a parent supposed to do with a son who doesn't write anything down during class at all?

And do you really think straight-A students can't be troublemakers too? I've had totally different experiences with that. They absolutely can be, but then teachers often don't know how to handle them, which sends a message not just to the top students, but to the whole class.
Of course, one of those messages is: "At this school, the only thing that matters is academic performance..."
And that brings us back to the big question: Is school meant to be a place for holistic development, or is it strictly just for academics? 🙂

The relevant authorities want to bridge the gap between education and socialization, but they can't even get on the same page themselves. How else can you describe a teacher's workload? They are obsessively required to track every single minute, every grade, every comma, every rubric entry, meeting quotas, scheduling exams, announcing tests, and so on. It’s pure bureaucracy. We have this rigid academic system that breaks under the weight of its own rules, yet teachers are held solely responsible for every single oversight.
How are you supposed to balance all that red tape, the need to maintain classroom order, and actually teaching the material, while also finding time for the "socialization" component? I know from experience that when things get hectic, management only cares if you hit your metrics. There’s zero empathy for the fact that you spent thirty minutes helping a student who was disrupting the class. All they see is that you were "working" for the full hour—to exaggerate, maybe you were just explaining 2x2=4 when you were actually supposed to be covering the entire multiplication table.
No matter how you slice it, the teacher is always wrong. Either they aren't efficient enough, or they aren't spending enough time with the kids who need it most. 🤷

Paul Wilson72 said:No, I honestly believe that any parent could manage the actual curriculum themselves if they really tried—it’s not exactly rocket science. In my view, parents would fail most spectacularly in the very area where they complain about teachers the most: "parenting." That isn't the school's responsibility, and frankly, no teacher training program in the country can fix how a child behaves at home or solve classroom dynamics through sheer pedagogy. Teachers are essentially working with their hands tied behind their backs. As I’ve said before, no matter how much effort they put in, there simply aren't the legal avenues to take decisive action. If they try to push too hard, all they end up doing is provoking the wrath of parents and students. They end up creating problems for themselves that a teacher earning a high salary truly doesn't need—only to be criticized by everyone the following day.
There are plenty of other reasons why that extra week matters for teachers. It’s a chance for people to finally see and realize that our job isn't just about those few hours spent standing in front of a classroom. Our actual working hours are significantly longer. And let’s be honest—we aren't exactly getting paid for the Saturdays and Sundays we spend grading exams or drafting new ones. Then there's the lesson planning. Believe me, you don't just plan for a subject; you plan for the specific class. You could teach the exact same course, in the same department, to the same grade level just one year later, and the experience will be night and day. One group gets it all right away—they're brilliant—but the next generation might struggle with absolutely nothing. Same professor, same teaching style, yet a completely different result. So, what then?

Honestly, my heart goes out most to the kids who are genuinely good—the ones who are smart, eager to learn, and hungry for more than what the standard curriculum offers. They rarely get any recognition unless they’re winning some big competition. Instead, they become the default scapegoats for everything. When there are systemic issues, when teachers are quitting in droves, when the curriculum falls behind, or when the classroom turns into chaos, these students always end up catching the fallout. As someone else pointed out, it’s incredibly rare for a straight-A student to actually have behavioral issues. Yet, somehow, the teachers end up resenting the kids who are just struggling to keep their heads above water. It’s unfair, and it unfairly colors how both the students and their parents are perceived. But even beyond grades, there are those quiet, polite kids who might not grasp every concept immediately but are perfectly well-behaved. Their calm nature often gives the troublemakers an opening to act out. I really believe the responsibility lies with the teachers here. A teacher is expected to deliver complex material, maintain discipline, and somehow find individual time for every single student to address their personal struggles at school or home. You couldn't pull that off if you were Superman, let alone in a forty-five-minute period. Maybe some people won't get where I'm coming from—I know many of you are dealing with elementary schoolers—but I'm talking about high school. These are teenagers between 14 and 19 years old. We can't dismiss them as being "childish" or incapable of understanding that certain behaviors simply aren't acceptable in a classroom.
The education system is broken, honestly. But I don't blame teachers as individuals; the fault lies with a system that has stripped them of authority, placing them in a subordinate position compared to their students. I completely understand why some choose to just stay out of it and do the bare minimum. They know ahead of time that if they try to address a student's behavior or grading issues, they’ll be the ones labeled as the problem instead of the kid. What's the point? Until the laws and regulations regarding student rights and obligations are overhauled—so that we can actually take action against problematic behavior—it is utterly pointless to blame teachers for how a student acts in class. A student's behavior is a direct reflection of their upbringing at home. Any homeroom teacher will tell you that once you get to know both the parents and the child, the connection becomes obvious. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, whether that's for better or worse.

Hmm, regarding how teachers react—let's look at the bigger picture. Gas prices go up, and truck drivers don't protest; milk prices spike, and people don't react; sales tax increases, and there's silence. Actually, I'd say people *do* try to react, but their voices are ignored, much like certain posts on this thread. The government simply refuses to hear anything that doesn't suit its agenda. It's the same with the Department of Education; they don't want to admit when things are failing, and when individuals write open letters, they rarely receive a response. Nothing ever changes.

At the end of the day, Jessica Howard5, as much as I understand that you are fighting against violent students in your school and organizing parents, what have you actually managed to achieve? That is exactly what teachers face when they try to make a difference. You feel like nobody in the school is doing anything, while teachers feel like the people at the federal level haven't even stepped foot in a classroom to see the reality of the situation.

But how exactly are they tied?
What legal avenues don't they have to act on?
And what kind of "concrete actions" are we talking about here?
Are they not allowed to discipline a kid? 🤔 Because to me, that seems like the only thing they aren't legally permitted to do, and clearly, some people just lack that outlet to exert power. Without it, they seem totally helpless.🙄

Paul Wilson72 said:No, I honestly believe that any parent could manage the actual curriculum themselves if they really tried—it’s not exactly rocket science. In my view, parents would fail most spectacularly in the very area where they complain about teachers the most: "parenting." That isn't the school's responsibility, and frankly, no teacher training program in the country can fix how a child behaves at home or solve classroom dynamics through sheer pedagogy. Teachers are essentially working with their hands tied behind their backs. As I’ve said before, no matter how much effort they put in, there simply aren't the legal avenues to take decisive action. If they try to push too hard, all they end up doing is provoking the wrath of parents and students. They end up creating problems for themselves that a teacher earning a high salary truly doesn't need—only to be criticized by everyone the following day.
There are plenty of other reasons why that extra week matters for teachers. It’s a chance for people to finally see and realize that our job isn't just about those few hours spent standing in front of a classroom. Our actual working hours are significantly longer. And let’s be honest—we aren't exactly getting paid for the Saturdays and Sundays we spend grading exams or drafting new ones. Then there's the lesson planning. Believe me, you don't just plan for a subject; you plan for the specific class. You could teach the exact same course, in the same department, to the same grade level just one year later, and the experience will be night and day. One group gets it all right away—they're brilliant—but the next generation might struggle with absolutely nothing. Same professor, same teaching style, yet a completely different result. So, what then?

Honestly, my heart goes out most to the kids who are genuinely good—the ones who are smart, eager to learn, and hungry for more than what the standard curriculum offers. They rarely get any recognition unless they’re winning some big competition. Instead, they become the default scapegoats for everything. When there are systemic issues, when teachers are quitting in droves, when the curriculum falls behind, or when the classroom turns into chaos, these students always end up catching the fallout. As someone else pointed out, it’s incredibly rare for a straight-A student to actually have behavioral issues. Yet, somehow, the teachers end up resenting the kids who are just struggling to keep their heads above water. It’s unfair, and it unfairly colors how both the students and their parents are perceived. But even beyond grades, there are those quiet, polite kids who might not grasp every concept immediately but are perfectly well-behaved. Their calm nature often gives the troublemakers an opening to act out. I really believe the responsibility lies with the teachers here. A teacher is expected to deliver complex material, maintain discipline, and somehow find individual time for every single student to address their personal struggles at school or home. You couldn't pull that off if you were Superman, let alone in a forty-five-minute period. Maybe some people won't get where I'm coming from—I know many of you are dealing with elementary schoolers—but I'm talking about high school. These are teenagers between 14 and 19 years old. We can't dismiss them as being "childish" or incapable of understanding that certain behaviors simply aren't acceptable in a classroom.
The education system is broken, honestly. But I don't blame teachers as individuals; the fault lies with a system that has stripped them of authority, placing them in a subordinate position compared to their students. I completely understand why some choose to just stay out of it and do the bare minimum. They know ahead of time that if they try to address a student's behavior or grading issues, they’ll be the ones labeled as the problem instead of the kid. What's the point? Until the laws and regulations regarding student rights and obligations are overhauled—so that we can actually take action against problematic behavior—it is utterly pointless to blame teachers for how a student acts in class. A student's behavior is a direct reflection of their upbringing at home. Any homeroom teacher will tell you that once you get to know both the parents and the child, the connection becomes obvious. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, whether that's for better or worse.

Hmm, regarding how teachers react—let's look at the bigger picture. Gas prices go up, and truck drivers don't protest; milk prices spike, and people don't react; sales tax increases, and there's silence. Actually, I'd say people *do* try to react, but their voices are ignored, much like certain posts on this thread. The government simply refuses to hear anything that doesn't suit its agenda. It's the same with the Department of Education; they don't want to admit when things are failing, and when individuals write open letters, they rarely receive a response. Nothing ever changes.

At the end of the day, Jessica Howard5, as much as I understand that you are fighting against violent students in your school and organizing parents, what have you actually managed to achieve? That is exactly what teachers face when they try to make a difference. You feel like nobody in the school is doing anything, while teachers feel like the people at the federal level haven't even stepped foot in a classroom to see the reality of the situation.

But who makes up the system? Is it built by ants or crocodiles? Aren't teachers also part of that very system?
What do you mean by a "subordinate position"?

And honestly, let's be real for a second: not all teachers are saints. Some definitely insult students, some don't know how to teach, and frankly, it doesn't surprise me at all when kids are impossible in class. Sometimes, certain teachers can actually trigger bad behavior, disruptions, or bullying. If a student is acting out in one class, they often become the "problem child" in every other class too—because if other teachers say they *don't* have an issue with that kid, they're suddenly labeled "incompetent." Basically, the kid gets turned into the "problem" just to protect an ineffective teacher.
Do you really think that doesn't happen?
You've got it all wrong.🤷

What are the actual sanctions for a professor who insults a student? (It's hardly surprising they're afraid of cell phone videos and parent complaints; I'd bet anything that the ones who are actually respectful to kids and colleagues don't have those fears.)
Do they have any accountability for not knowing how to talk to kids? For lacking active listening skills, using "I" statements, or just basic politeness? They should realize they are role models for children, just like parents or even celebrities like Madonna. But instead, it happens that when a kid picks up bad habits, it's blamed on the parents or a pop star, while the teacher who taught them the wrong way gets a pass.😂 LOL:
Poor little subordinates.🙄

Susan James said:But how exactly are they tied?
What legal avenues don't they have to act on?
And what kind of "concrete actions" are we talking about here?
Are they not allowed to discipline a kid? 🤔 Because to me, that seems like the only thing they aren't legally permitted to do, and clearly, some people just lack that outlet to exert power. Without it, they seem totally helpless.🙄

But who makes up the system? Is it built by ants or crocodiles? Aren't teachers also part of that very system?
What do you mean by a "subordinate position"?

And honestly, let's be real for a second: not all teachers are saints. Some definitely insult students, some don't know how to teach, and frankly, it doesn't surprise me at all when kids are impossible in class. Sometimes, certain teachers can actually trigger bad behavior, disruptions, or bullying. If a student is acting out in one class, they often become the "problem child" in every other class too—because if other teachers say they *don't* have an issue with that kid, they're suddenly labeled "incompetent." Basically, the kid gets turned into the "problem" just to protect an ineffective teacher.
Do you really think that doesn't happen?
You've got it all wrong.🤷

What are the actual sanctions for a professor who insults a student? (It's hardly surprising they're afraid of cell phone videos and parent complaints; I'd bet anything that the ones who are actually respectful to kids and colleagues don't have those fears.)
Do they have any accountability for not knowing how to talk to kids? For lacking active listening skills, using "I" statements, or just basic politeness? They should realize they are role models for children, just like parents or even celebrities like Madonna. But instead, it happens that when a kid picks up bad habits, it's blamed on the parents or a pop star, while the teacher who taught them the wrong way gets a pass.😂 LOL:
Poor little subordinates.🙄

First off, go read post 153 by Anne st-zg... it's actually quite insightful...

For instance, a student litters in class. You tell them to pick it up, and they snap back that there are janitors for that. There isn't a specific legal mandate forcing that student to clean up after themselves.
Or a student talks back, defies the principal, refuses to leave, and starts swearing, making it impossible to continue the lesson while another student has to run to find administration.
Then there's the news story where a student accuses a teacher of "touching" them just because the teacher wouldn't give them the grade they wanted. The teacher ends up being dragged through the press and having their reputation ruined, regardless of whether the accusation is a total lie. There are zero consequences for false accusations.
And honestly, why are you getting so worked up about physical discipline? Did you have a rough childhood or something? Well, if so, feel free to go sue every teacher who ever laid a hand on you—that's how things work nowadays.

Susan James said:But how exactly are they tied?
What legal avenues don't they have to act on?
And what kind of "concrete actions" are we talking about here?
Are they not allowed to discipline a kid? 🤔 Because to me, that seems like the only thing they aren't legally permitted to do, and clearly, some people just lack that outlet to exert power. Without it, they seem totally helpless.🙄

But who makes up the system? Is it built by ants or crocodiles? Aren't teachers also part of that very system?
What do you mean by a "subordinate position"?

And honestly, let's be real for a second: not all teachers are saints. Some definitely insult students, some don't know how to teach, and frankly, it doesn't surprise me at all when kids are impossible in class. Sometimes, certain teachers can actually trigger bad behavior, disruptions, or bullying. If a student is acting out in one class, they often become the "problem child" in every other class too—because if other teachers say they *don't* have an issue with that kid, they're suddenly labeled "incompetent." Basically, the kid gets turned into the "problem" just to protect an ineffective teacher.
Do you really think that doesn't happen?
You've got it all wrong.🤷

What are the actual sanctions for a professor who insults a student? (It's hardly surprising they're afraid of cell phone videos and parent complaints; I'd bet anything that the ones who are actually respectful to kids and colleagues don't have those fears.)
Do they have any accountability for not knowing how to talk to kids? For lacking active listening skills, using "I" statements, or just basic politeness? They should realize they are role models for children, just like parents or even celebrities like Madonna. But instead, it happens that when a kid picks up bad habits, it's blamed on the parents or a pop star, while the teacher who taught them the wrong way gets a pass.😂 LOL:
Poor little subordinates.🙄

If you're part of the system too, then go ahead and lower gas prices by a few bucks at the pump... let us know when you've made progress.🙄

Susan James said:But how exactly are they tied?
What legal avenues don't they have to act on?
And what kind of "concrete actions" are we talking about here?
Are they not allowed to discipline a kid? 🤔 Because to me, that seems like the only thing they aren't legally permitted to do, and clearly, some people just lack that outlet to exert power. Without it, they seem totally helpless.🙄

But who makes up the system? Is it built by ants or crocodiles? Aren't teachers also part of that very system?
What do you mean by a "subordinate position"?

And honestly, let's be real for a second: not all teachers are saints. Some definitely insult students, some don't know how to teach, and frankly, it doesn't surprise me at all when kids are impossible in class. Sometimes, certain teachers can actually trigger bad behavior, disruptions, or bullying. If a student is acting out in one class, they often become the "problem child" in every other class too—because if other teachers say they *don't* have an issue with that kid, they're suddenly labeled "incompetent." Basically, the kid gets turned into the "problem" just to protect an ineffective teacher.
Do you really think that doesn't happen?
You've got it all wrong.🤷

What are the actual sanctions for a professor who insults a student? (It's hardly surprising they're afraid of cell phone videos and parent complaints; I'd bet anything that the ones who are actually respectful to kids and colleagues don't have those fears.)
Do they have any accountability for not knowing how to talk to kids? For lacking active listening skills, using "I" statements, or just basic politeness? They should realize they are role models for children, just like parents or even celebrities like Madonna. But instead, it happens that when a kid picks up bad habits, it's blamed on the parents or a pop star, while the teacher who taught them the wrong way gets a pass.😂 LOL:
Poor little subordinates.🙄

Right... ☕
I guess it's the wife's fault if her husband gets violent because she didn't cook dinner exactly how he liked it and he was feeling stressed...
Or maybe it's the woman's fault for wearing a short skirt, so naturally, some attacker thinks it's an invitation...
But I won't keep making comparisons; you'll just say it's irrelevant... except that these are excuses used when there shouldn't be any excuses at all.

Susan James said:But how exactly are they tied?
What legal avenues don't they have to act on?
And what kind of "concrete actions" are we talking about here?
Are they not allowed to discipline a kid? 🤔 Because to me, that seems like the only thing they aren't legally permitted to do, and clearly, some people just lack that outlet to exert power. Without it, they seem totally helpless.🙄

But who makes up the system? Is it built by ants or crocodiles? Aren't teachers also part of that very system?
What do you mean by a "subordinate position"?

And honestly, let's be real for a second: not all teachers are saints. Some definitely insult students, some don't know how to teach, and frankly, it doesn't surprise me at all when kids are impossible in class. Sometimes, certain teachers can actually trigger bad behavior, disruptions, or bullying. If a student is acting out in one class, they often become the "problem child" in every other class too—because if other teachers say they *don't* have an issue with that kid, they're suddenly labeled "incompetent." Basically, the kid gets turned into the "problem" just to protect an ineffective teacher.
Do you really think that doesn't happen?
You've got it all wrong.🤷

What are the actual sanctions for a professor who insults a student? (It's hardly surprising they're afraid of cell phone videos and parent complaints; I'd bet anything that the ones who are actually respectful to kids and colleagues don't have those fears.)
Do they have any accountability for not knowing how to talk to kids? For lacking active listening skills, using "I" statements, or just basic politeness? They should realize they are role models for children, just like parents or even celebrities like Madonna. But instead, it happens that when a kid picks up bad habits, it's blamed on the parents or a pop star, while the teacher who taught them the wrong way gets a pass.😂 LOL:
Poor little subordinates.🙄

Aha... what do you mean 99%? It's more like 99.999999%... ☕
Given how you talk about teachers, you really ought to be thrown to the wolves. Since you're so good at this barroom philosophy, why don't you try putting it into practice?

Susan James said:But what does "cooperation" actually look like to you or the teachers? How exactly would a cooperative parent change the vibe in the classroom? In what way would that actually make your job easier?
Has anyone here actually dealt with a supportive parent who managed to turn things around in class? What did that process look like for you? 🙂

Well, kohortas is basically the gold standard for a parent who actually cooperates.🙂

Jessica Howard5 said:I’m interested too, but let me give you my take based on experience. I show up to conferences regularly—every other week, twice a month. I know most parents only care about grades, but I want to know how my kids are acting in class and how they get along with their peers. Grades come second; I only bring up excuses if something actually needs justifying. If a teacher tells me my kid is restless, disrupting the lesson, talking over people, or having beef with other students... then I step in. That's when I work on correcting the behavior. To me, that's what parent-school cooperation looks like. And I expect the same from the school—that they actually address and correct my child's behavior while they're on campus.
This seems to be aimed at the parents (presumably) who don't bother doing that. I know plenty of kids who are straight-A geniuses but act like total disasters during class or in the halls. Most of their parents couldn't care less because the grades are fine, and they just don't give a damn about anything else. That's the problem, in my opinion.

If everyone acted like him, I suspect we wouldn't be facing half these problems.🙂