Student-teacher dynamics vs. parent-teacher dynamics

I, urbantinker8, where is all this sudden animosity toward professors coming from?
Was your own experience in school really that much of a nightmare—like, were they all just completely incompetent, narrow-minded, or somehow actively malicious...?

urbantinker8 said:I, urbantinker8, where is all this sudden animosity toward professors coming from?
Was your own experience in school really that much of a nightmare—like, were they all just completely incompetent, narrow-minded, or somehow actively malicious...?

What makes you think I'm being hateful?
😕😕😕

When I chime in on these threads about educators, I’m speaking from my perspective as an adult and a professional who actually works alongside them from time to time.
There are absolutely wonderful teachers out there, and yes, there are some truly awful ones too.
But honestly, you find those extremes in every single profession.

What really bothers me is the mindset that a child needs to be punished—that there have to be consequences for bad behavior—while at the same time, that same child watches a parent commit actual crimes (not just "bad behavior") without any repercussions. Unfortunately, I've seen cases where they watch a teacher act out in the same way and face zero consequences as well.

That specific brand of hypocrisy among adults is just awful to me. From a developmental standpoint, it's incredibly destructive, whether it's for kids already struggling with behavioral issues, kids who are at risk of developing them, or even the ones who aren't problematic at all.
And if you're reading that as me having a grudge against teachers, 🤷🤷🤷

So what, everyone else is cutting corners, so we should just let our kids do whatever they want too? Why be hypocrites about it? Is that really how you see it?
Look, I get it. The system is broken and half the stuff going on feels shady as hell, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't raise our kids with actual standards.
Honestly, teaching them to recognize when things aren't fair... I guess that’s actually one of the most important parts of growing them up right.

urbantinker8 said:I, urbantinker8, where is all this sudden animosity toward professors coming from?
Was your own experience in school really that much of a nightmare—like, were they all just completely incompetent, narrow-minded, or somehow actively malicious...?

The psychologists ☕ basically just sit in their offices sipping coffee, and I bet they roll their eyes every single time you drop off a kid who’s been causing chaos for an hour. Then, the moment they hear they actually have to call a parent in for a serious meeting, they’re all like, "Ugh, no, not that crazy mom again." I honestly couldn't believe my ears when I heard that. What a joke.

What is their actual purpose here? Instead of having regular check-ins with problematic students—I'm talking weekly sessions—and organizing behavioral workshops for both kids and parents, they'd rather just sit there doing puzzles with the troublemakers and avoid talking to parents at all costs. 🤷

Sean Fox said:The whole point of suspending kids from class is this:
Even when they aren't physically in school, they still have to learn all the material. And guess who's stuck doing that? The parents. They'd basically have to take a vacation day just to sit there and tutor their kids through everything. So, the idea isn't to kick kids out so they can just veg out in front of the TV. Obviously, no parent wants that extra work, so they'd actually have to put in some effort with the kids...
People claim this works great over in Europe....
I honestly have no clue how that would fly here in the States, because let's be real, nothing ever works quite right in this country....

At the same time, it limits the influence of a problematic student over their peers, which is also a vital factor.

Ugh, I’m not going to quote everyone here. But look, we've basically reached a conclusion—or at least, that's my layman's take: just shut up and don't rock the boat. Someone high up in the government sets the rules, just like everything else in this country. The workers in the system follow those rules, and that's why we're stuck where we are.
So, when people compare education to things like the economy or taxes and gas prices—and then someone suggests changing the school system—I’m honestly stunned. I don't get it, and frankly, it scares me.
We live in the 21st century, yet our education system feels stuck in the 19th. That’s how it looks to me. Kids are being fed a mountain of useless trivia they won't need in the real world; they pass the test, memorize the facts, and promptly forget everything. Why does nobody actually look at the root of the problem? On one hand, you have teachers who finished their training years ago. Of course, every single one of them thinks their subject is the most important thing in the world. But there's the question of *how* they actually teach and what methods they use in the classroom. There are all kinds of teachers. Some are engaging lecturers and great educators; others, honestly, are not. But almost all of them act like their specific subject is absolutely vital.
On the other hand, someone up in Washington, D.C. mandates a specific curriculum for every single subject, and these teachers are forced to follow it. These same teachers attend seminars and workshops before the curriculum is even set. Did anyone actually stand up during those seminars—which usually happen during some retreat out West for a few days—and say, "Hey, this part works, but this part sucks"? Or is that time just wasted? Most of the time, it’s just checking a box. They listen to the presenters, and that's it. Someone else writes the plan, and I'm just supposed to execute it. It feels like if I were planning a road trip from Indianapolis to Washington, D.C., and someone decided we had to drive through Pittsburgh just because it adds a little mileage and offers a "nice view" of another state. And if someone else is driving me, I don't care how long it takes, but if the boss says we're going through Pittsburgh, I just sit there and drive.
I can't wrap my head around why there's zero political will in this country for a deep, structural reform of education. There's no drive to pass clear, workable laws that would make school a better environment for both students and teachers. If we aren't smart enough to come up with reforms ourselves, let's at least do the work to study systems that actually function elsewhere in the world and apply them here. Maybe that's a pipe dream, or maybe it's reality. Or maybe it'll take another hundred years before someone remembers to do something, but by then, it'll be too late and everything will be gone down the drain.
Sorry, I want to apologize to all the educators out there if I offended you. I'm sorry that I don't trust the system, or that I lack faith in your ability to fix these issues, or that I don't have the patience to see things changed immediately. I guess I was walking through this blindly and didn't realize the hurdles you face while trying to teach and raise kids. Please accept my deepest apologies, but I'm making it my mission to speak up about these problems. I refuse to stay quiet or ignore them. So, go ahead and solve these problems however you can, within your authority and the law. Sorry again!!!!

Emily Gonzalez51 said:The psychologists ☕ basically just sit in their offices sipping coffee, and I bet they roll their eyes every single time you drop off a kid who’s been causing chaos for an hour. Then, the moment they hear they actually have to call a parent in for a serious meeting, they’re all like, "Ugh, no, not that crazy mom again." I honestly couldn't believe my ears when I heard that. What a joke.

What is their actual purpose here? Instead of having regular check-ins with problematic students—I'm talking weekly sessions—and organizing behavioral workshops for both kids and parents, they'd rather just sit there doing puzzles with the troublemakers and avoid talking to parents at all costs. 🤷

I have to ask—what kind of sample size are you using to back up such an insulting generalization?

Nicholas King said:I have to ask—what kind of sample size are you using to back up such an insulting generalization?

Based on more than enough evidence. In every single one of the six schools where I worked as a psychologist, they didn't lift a finger.
And what about you—are you a school psychologist? Please, enlighten me: what exactly is it that you people even do?

Emily Gonzalez51 said:Based on more than enough evidence. In every single one of the six schools where I worked as a psychologist, they didn't lift a finger.
And what about you—are you a school psychologist? Please, enlighten me: what exactly is it that you people even do?

Look, there is a massive, gaping chasm between "not breaking a sweat" and "just sitting around drinking coffee all day." I don't even see public school teachers "breaking a sweat" half the time, yet I wouldn't go so far as to say they’re just idling away the hours.

Your conclusion regarding my role as a school psychologist falls right into the same category of generalizations.

Nicholas King As specified by Nicholas King:
There is a massive distinction between saying people aren't breaking a sweat and claiming they’re just sitting around sipping lattes. I don't see any evidence that the public school teachers are slacking off, so I certainly won't go as far as to say they're doing nothing all day.

Tvoj The bottom line is this: we’ve reached a verdict. As a school psychologist, I find myself in complete agreement with this position. The sheer lack of logic in these recent rulings is absolutely staggering. It’s like watching a slow-motion train wreck where nobody bothers to check the tracks..

Compared to psychologists, teachers are absolutely overworked. Five back-to-back 45-minute sessions of intense mental strain will drain a person dry, much like an empty gas tank on a long highway trip.

Emily Gonzalez51 said:

Nicholas King As specified by Nicholas King:
There is a massive distinction between saying people aren't breaking a sweat and claiming they’re just sitting around sipping lattes. I don't see any evidence that the public school teachers are slacking off, so I certainly won't go as far as to say they're doing nothing all day.

Tvoj The bottom line is this: we’ve reached a verdict. As a school psychologist, I find myself in complete agreement with this position. The sheer lack of logic in these recent rulings is absolutely staggering. It’s like watching a slow-motion train wreck where nobody bothers to check the tracks..

Compared to psychologists, teachers are absolutely overworked. Five back-to-back 45-minute sessions of intense mental strain will drain a person dry, much like an empty gas tank on a long highway trip.

Honestly, I’m reading this and just laughing until I cry.

Ugh. kohortas, you’ve really gone and opened Pandora's box here, trying to shake things up or maybe just hoping to get a clear look at how messy everything actually is. 😁 I mean, good for you, I guess. 🙏
Of course there are great teachers and then there are... well, other teachers. It’s the same with doctors, accountants, lawyers—you know, different levels of competence across the board.

But hey, if it makes you feel any better, not every professor thinks their subject is the center of the universe. I certainly don't. Even though, realistically speaking, my field is probably way more important than half the stuff out there. 😁 But I’ve never once looked at my work as being the alpha and omega of existence.
Sadly, there are colleagues who act like their specific subject is the only thing that matters, but from what I’ve seen, that usually comes down to the older crowd, the old school types. We younger ones tend to be a bit more flexible about all that. 😁

And seminars... man...
It feels like ages since I sat through a decent one. For about four years now, they’ve been strictly focused on standardized testing and state curriculum requirements. It’s mostly politics and very little actual teaching or development. That’s all I’m going to say about that particular sore spot. ☕

nosorog, maybe I'm misreading things, but reading between the lines of your posts—well, most of them, anyway—I catch this deep sense of resentment and anger toward teachers. 🤷
I get the impression you think everyone is chronically lacking in pedagogical skill and that truly good professors just don't exist anymore.
And while we're talking about discipline—a teacher's job is to address undesirable behavior in students, not their parents. If a student is picking up those bad habits at home because they're mirroring their parents, that’s a whole different issue. Bad parenting should be dealt with by someone else entirely, but most of the time, that "someone else" either isn't there or just doesn't bother to step in.
Anyway, I guess we're just running in circles again.

Nicholas King said:Honestly, I’m reading this and just laughing until I cry.

Look, let me be blunt: if you can't wrap your head around this, that's hardly your fault.

Emily Gonzalez51 said:

Nicholas King As specified by Nicholas King:
There is a massive distinction between saying people aren't breaking a sweat and claiming they’re just sitting around sipping lattes. I don't see any evidence that the public school teachers are slacking off, so I certainly won't go as far as to say they're doing nothing all day.

Tvoj The bottom line is this: we’ve reached a verdict. As a school psychologist, I find myself in complete agreement with this position. The sheer lack of logic in these recent rulings is absolutely staggering. It’s like watching a slow-motion train wreck where nobody bothers to check the tracks..

Compared to psychologists, teachers are absolutely overworked. Five back-to-back 45-minute sessions of intense mental strain will drain a person dry, much like an empty gas tank on a long highway trip.

I’m in on this.

Nicholas King said:Honestly, I’m reading this and just laughing until I cry.

I guess it’s probably just because you’ve never actually given it a shot before.

urbantinker8 said:I’m in on this.

I guess it’s probably just because you’ve never actually given it a shot before.

To put it bluntly—the more an activist describes their job as some high-stakes blend of open-heart surgery and building a spacecraft for NASA, the more they're going to attract equally extreme opinions from the "other side of the aisle."

Now, no sane person is going to deny the actual value that activism brings to the table, but this pervasive tendency toward self-pity—this constant need to play the martyr—is, I suppose, just plain senseless 😁.

Nicholas King said:To put it bluntly—the more an activist describes their job as some high-stakes blend of open-heart surgery and building a spacecraft for NASA, the more they're going to attract equally extreme opinions from the "other side of the aisle."

Now, no sane person is going to deny the actual value that activism brings to the table, but this pervasive tendency toward self-pity—this constant need to play the martyr—is, I suppose, just plain senseless 😁.

🙄
I guess all this self-pity just stems from the fact that we've been catching heat from every single direction for years now. I’m really just speaking for myself here, though. I still genuinely love my job and I have no intention of walking away from it right now, but—yeah—I do feel pretty exhausted and honestly just worn down by the general atmosphere currently prevailing across the country.

urbantinker8 said:🙄
I guess all this self-pity just stems from the fact that we've been catching heat from every single direction for years now. I’m really just speaking for myself here, though. I still genuinely love my job and I have no intention of walking away from it right now, but—yeah—I do feel pretty exhausted and honestly just worn down by the general atmosphere currently prevailing across the country.

This is simply not the case—you’ve taken what was a relatively benign post about the (lack of) rights held by educators and interpreted it as nothing less than pure hatred toward teachers. It reeks of that uncritical, old-school union solidarity, where people view the entire teaching profession more like a religious dogma than anything else.

Or perhaps you’d care to deny that when you’re sitting in the faculty lounge, you're sharing a table and with the very same kind of people you would probably try to keep at least 50 feet away from children if you had the chance tonight?

Nicholas King said:This is simply not the case—you’ve taken what was a relatively benign post about the (lack of) rights held by educators and interpreted it as nothing less than pure hatred toward teachers. It reeks of that uncritical, old-school union solidarity, where people view the entire teaching profession more like a religious dogma than anything else.

Or perhaps you’d care to deny that when you’re sitting in the faculty lounge, you're sharing a table and with the very same kind of people you would probably try to keep at least 50 feet away from children if you had the chance tonight?

Does this sound like you're describing a school staffed by creeps, predators, and lunatics?
From what authority are you speaking? What is your actual role in the American education system? You're clearly just some former student who spent their time causing trouble in class decades ago. 😁

Nicholas King said:This is simply not the case—you’ve taken what was a relatively benign post about the (lack of) rights held by educators and interpreted it as nothing less than pure hatred toward teachers. It reeks of that uncritical, old-school union solidarity, where people view the entire teaching profession more like a religious dogma than anything else.

Or perhaps you’d care to deny that when you’re sitting in the faculty lounge, you're sharing a table and with the very same kind of people you would probably try to keep at least 50 feet away from children if you had the chance tonight?

It’s certainly not the case that everyone in my staff room is some kind of perfect educator, either in terms of discipline or actual instruction.
But no—there aren't any weirdos around me who would warrant a restraining order.
Maybe I just happen to be unusually lucky that my colleagues don't all suffer from various personality disorders.🥳

Emily Gonzalez51 said:Does this sound like you're describing a school staffed by creeps, predators, and lunatics?
From what authority are you speaking? What is your actual role in the American education system? You're clearly just some former student who spent their time causing trouble in class decades ago. 😁

😁 👍

Pedophiles? Schizophrenics??? 🤦

By all means, feel free to hand out an Academy Award for literally just reading something.