Why did Jesus die?

Linda Walker37 said:Idols are false gods that people bow down to through images and statues. They aren't the actual images of the Virgin Mary
or Jesus...

I mean, can you really "draw" or paint God and put him in a frame? Not really. That’s not God; that’s just an idol that a person sat down and sketched out themselves.😕

Rachel Taylor2 said:I mean, can you really "draw" or paint God and put him in a frame? Not really. That’s not God; that’s just an idol that a person sat down and sketched out themselves.😕

So, I guess it's just a way of visualizing how people imagine Jesus might have looked, especially since it's based on that shroud from Turin, and obviously, you aren't actually praying to the cloth or the paint or some wooden frame itself... I mean, for me, it’s definitely easier to "talk to God" if I can just picture Him in my head somehow, and I always end up imagining Him as this incredibly beautiful and kind soul. 😍
I guess one of my girlfriends actually pictures him looking like Sean Connery. 😁

Man, if I could just picture God looking like Meg Ryan, I’d be on my knees praying every single day.

Charles Ross84 said:Man, if I could just picture God looking like Meg Ryan, I’d be on my knees praying every single day.

I mean, honestly, why wouldn't you if it actually helps you out? 😁

God is basically everywhere, you know? Like, in our thoughts, when we're hanging out with friends... I guess it might be way better to just imagine sitting down at a Starbucks for a coffee and having a real conversation with Him, rather than picturing Him as this dark, scary fog just waiting to get angry and punish us for everything. It feels kind of silly to just constantly nag Him for stuff, like, "Please, please, please, I need a new car or a house," you know? 😁

I feel like you can connect with God while you're driving to work or just chilling at the park, instead of thinking it only happens in a church on Sunday mornings or when you're desperate for something you really want.

Ethan Martinez6 said:I mean, honestly, why wouldn't you if it actually helps you out? 😁

God is basically everywhere, you know? Like, in our thoughts, when we're hanging out with friends... I guess it might be way better to just imagine sitting down at a Starbucks for a coffee and having a real conversation with Him, rather than picturing Him as this dark, scary fog just waiting to get angry and punish us for everything. It feels kind of silly to just constantly nag Him for stuff, like, "Please, please, please, I need a new car or a house," you know? 😁

I feel like you can connect with God while you're driving to work or just chilling at the park, instead of thinking it only happens in a church on Sunday mornings or when you're desperate for something you really want.

I just can't focus. Every time I try, I see this old guy with a massive beard and this intense stare burned into my brain—you know, the kind of imagery they used to bombard us with back in elementary school religion class. It wasn't even teaching; it was basically psychological warfare. You’d open up your little workbook and the first thing staring back at you would be some bearded dude looking like he stepped straight out of a movie as Merlin.

Charles Ross84 said:I just can't focus. Every time I try, I see this old guy with a massive beard and this intense stare burned into my brain—you know, the kind of imagery they used to bombard us with back in elementary school religion class. It wasn't even teaching; it was basically psychological warfare. You’d open up your little workbook and the first thing staring back at you would be some bearded dude looking like he stepped straight out of a movie as Merlin.

All I can see is the image of the man on the cross at Calvary...

fadedrider3 said:All I can see is the image of the man on the cross at Calvary...

That’s fine, though. It wouldn't be much better if we were staring down the twelve apostles instead.

Rachel Taylor2 said:I mean, can you really "draw" or paint God and put him in a frame? Not really. That’s not God; that’s just an idol that a person sat down and sketched out themselves.😕

For instance, the Israelis used to fashion golden calves and actually worship them.

fadedrider3 said:All I can see is the image of the man on the cross at Calvary...

I feel the exact same way...🙂

Kenneth Barnes7 said:🙂

Thanks for putting in the effort to answer. I'm not going to drag this out into a massive debate—I asked my questions, you gave your answers, and now it's up to the judge. 🙂 Personally, I enjoy learning something new every day.

I only brought up the "defender" bit to point out that my whole goal was to highlight how the translation of *parakletos* mirrors what Muslims believe regarding Muhammad (peace be upon him)—that specific figure who intercedes for us on Judgment Day. There is actually a huge debate over this word and similar passages, which some view as a sign foretelling the coming of Muhammad (peace be upon him).

Also, since you mentioned that Jesus would intercede with his Father and eventually judge us, I pointed out that based on the words you quoted—"At the end of His earthly life, Jesus promised His disciples that when He goes to the Father, He will send them a new defender"—it clearly implies that this "someone" follows Jesus. That was my way of hinting at the possibility that this "someone" is Muhammad (peace be upon him).
Anyway, that was just a side note. 🙂

Thanks again for your patience and your responses. 🙂

I should thank you for being so fair. Seriously, I have to admit you’re one of those rare Muslims—and honestly, believers from other faiths too—who actually seems to give a damn about having a fair approach and truly listens to what the person they're talking to is saying.

respect... 🙏

Kenneth Barnes7 said:🙂

Thanks for putting in the effort to answer. I'm not going to drag this out into a massive debate—I asked my questions, you gave your answers, and now it's up to the judge. 🙂 Personally, I enjoy learning something new every day.

I only brought up the "defender" bit to point out that my whole goal was to highlight how the translation of *parakletos* mirrors what Muslims believe regarding Muhammad (peace be upon him)—that specific figure who intercedes for us on Judgment Day. There is actually a huge debate over this word and similar passages, which some view as a sign foretelling the coming of Muhammad (peace be upon him).

Also, since you mentioned that Jesus would intercede with his Father and eventually judge us, I pointed out that based on the words you quoted—"At the end of His earthly life, Jesus promised His disciples that when He goes to the Father, He will send them a new defender"—it clearly implies that this "someone" follows Jesus. That was my way of hinting at the possibility that this "someone" is Muhammad (peace be upon him).
Anyway, that was just a side note. 🙂

Thanks again for your patience and your responses. 🙂

Let me touch on this briefly...
Look, I know all about that debate. From where I'm sitting, when it comes to John 14, Americans following Islam don't really have anything solid to grab onto...
It's frustrating. These little dives into the Bible (like Song of Solomon 5:16 or Deuteronomy 18:15-18) just look like clumsy—maybe even desperate—attempts to solve the massive problem of why God's previous revelations say absolutely nothing about another prophet, namely Muhammad. No offense intended, but from an outsider's perspective, that's exactly how it looks. To me, it's blindingly obvious: it's just not in the Bible.🤷

Anyway, regarding the actual meanings of names (which are huge and super significant in Judaism), I find something like this much more convincing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU5KxXTxOws (it's just a 2-minute video)

Kenneth Barnes7 said:Of course, I just want to emphasize that in Islam, no one carries the sins of another. We all "start" from our own baseline.
As for the quotes you mentioned, I've read through them carefully, but honestly, I don't feel qualified enough to comment on or analyze the Bible and its various parts. I'll try to find more time to study so I can be better prepared for this conversation. I don't want to throw around claims about the internal theology of the Bible until I've mastered the details to a certain level. 🙂

My goal in this thread was simply to learn and understand; if it came off as an accusation, my apologies. I just want to pick up more knowledge regarding comparative religions. 🙂

Best regards. 🙂

Honestly, 👍

By the way, quick question if anyone can answer: what’s the deal with the Quran regarding those animal sacrifices prescribed by Mosaic law?

Charles Ross84 said:I just can't focus. Every time I try, I see this old guy with a massive beard and this intense stare burned into my brain—you know, the kind of imagery they used to bombard us with back in elementary school religion class. It wasn't even teaching; it was basically psychological warfare. You’d open up your little workbook and the first thing staring back at you would be some bearded dude looking like he stepped straight out of a movie as Merlin.

Yeah, I totally get that, I guess we all went through that whole thing with that intimidating version of God, but maybe you just need to work through it a bit, since religious ed was such a long time ago, so maybe try 👍

Charles Ross84 said:I just can't focus. Every time I try, I see this old guy with a massive beard and this intense stare burned into my brain—you know, the kind of imagery they used to bombard us with back in elementary school religion class. It wasn't even teaching; it was basically psychological warfare. You’d open up your little workbook and the first thing staring back at you would be some bearded dude looking like he stepped straight out of a movie as Merlin.

The Ancient One.
It's mentioned in the Book of Daniel.
The original light was replaced by what we see today, which is why that ancient figure with the white hair is described that way.

Alex Ramos91 said:Look, maybe my Hebrew comes from the internet, but I actually double-checked this with a buddy of mine who studied Hebrew seriously.

You can dig into the details at this link (in English), and since apparently English is such a struggle for you, here’s a Google Translate version in German click

Anyway, the article compares the usage of the Hebrew words *yachid* and *echad*.
The first one always refers to a numerical "one"—just a single unit.
But *echad* can be a number, sure, but it’s also used to mean a "unified one"—like in Genesis 2:24, Genesis 11:6, 2 Chronicles 30:12, Ezra 2:64...
And that same "unified one" concept is exactly how it works in the Jewish Shema: "God is one"—meaning a unified oneness.

There's actually evidence for this: during the early Christian era, when people started talking about God as the Trinity, Jews would switch out the original *echad* for *yachid* when reciting the Shema.

In one sense, yeah—a child is the physical manifestation of two people becoming "one flesh."

But when Jesus was talking about divorce, he pointed directly back to Genesis 2:24 as his argument against it:
He answered, "Haven't you read that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female and said: 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no man separate." (Matthew 19:4-6)

There isn't a single mention of children here. It's about the marriage itself—how through the union and intimacy of husband and wife, they become one flesh, whether they have kids or not. Paul makes the exact same point in 1 Corinthians 6:16: Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh."

Like my friend said: Moses used that same word in the Shema ("Hear, O Israel...") to describe God's oneness, and then used it again in Genesis 2 to describe the unified oneness of a marriage.
Look, God's oneness isn't some indivisible, unbreakable thing.

Hey,
mš

--Like a good friend of mine once said: There's a huge difference between just learning a language and having it in your soul. That goes for Hebrew, too... etc.
--Do I really need to keep responding with links? Just tell me what you think instead of sending more links. The internet is one thing, but a library is another—like they say, if you want real quality, you head to the library.
--Of course I know who Maimonides is... and others...
--I've written about *echad* vs *yachid* more times than I can count.
I'll comment more when I actually have the time...
A full response is coming... (and after that, like I said before, I'm done commenting on the Trinity)

Cheers

I honestly don't see why everyone is making such a massive fuss over this... Jesus died because he isn't alive anymore. If he even existed in the first place. 😁

Peter Martin said:I honestly don't see why everyone is making such a massive fuss over this... Jesus died because he isn't alive anymore. If he even existed in the first place. 😁

He absolutely existed—one hundred percent. He wasn't "dead," he was ascended; he's still very much alive... he won't face death again until he returns the second time!

Rachel Taylor2 said:He absolutely existed—one hundred percent. He wasn't "dead," he was ascended; he's still very much alive... he won't face death again until he returns the second time!

That simply isn't the truth, you know... You're living in a delusion. But I will lay out the actual facts for you. It all traces back to sometime between 60 and 100 AD, when a certain contemporary February wrote a terrible piece of fiction regarding the Jewish obsession with a Messiah. However, a famous Roman director who spent his summer vacation in Alexandria dismissed her scribbles with pure contempt, so she handed those manuscripts over to some Egyptian shepherds instead. Everything after that is just history playing out. Among those illiterate shepherds, oral tradition first spun a myth, which eventually led some people to actually believe in it. That is how the first Christians were formed around campfires in the Egyptian desert, gradually spreading through Greek and Jewish cities across the entire Mediterranean. This is precisely why the oldest writings were discovered in the Egyptian desert...😁

Peter Martin said:That simply isn't the truth, you know... You're living in a delusion. But I will lay out the actual facts for you. It all traces back to sometime between 60 and 100 AD, when a certain contemporary February wrote a terrible piece of fiction regarding the Jewish obsession with a Messiah. However, a famous Roman director who spent his summer vacation in Alexandria dismissed her scribbles with pure contempt, so she handed those manuscripts over to some Egyptian shepherds instead. Everything after that is just history playing out. Among those illiterate shepherds, oral tradition first spun a myth, which eventually led some people to actually believe in it. That is how the first Christians were formed around campfires in the Egyptian desert, gradually spreading through Greek and Jewish cities across the entire Mediterranean. This is precisely why the oldest writings were discovered in the Egyptian desert...😁

You’re living in a fantasy😁 because there isn't a shred of evidence for what you're saying; it's all just hearsay and rumors.😉

When the masses are fractured and restless, they demand a scapegoat—a sacrificial lamb to blame—just to find some semblance of unity, even if it’s only temporary.

Dennis Moore4 said:When the masses are fractured and restless, they demand a scapegoat—a sacrificial lamb to blame—just to find some semblance of unity, even if it’s only temporary.

Why does life seem to slip through our fingers so fast? And honestly, what is the point of it all for an atheist?😉

Ethan Martinez6 said:But I guess, if that's the case, why can't Jews or Christians go there, and it's just for Muslims?

It’s most likely for security reasons. If they let everyone in, you'd inevitably have some jerk 🙄 trying to fly in, toss trash at Cabo, or try to set things on fire just to disrespect people. That would lead to chaos—people losing their heads and total mayhem breaking out. It's honestly better this way; that place is too sacred to have non-believers walking through it.