Why did Jesus die?

So you're saying Muhammad has definitely moved on from this life, while Jesus will return only to die once more?

Exactly. Muhammad has left this world behind, but Jesus is still alive in heaven. He’s scheduled to return right toward the end of times. His return is a massive sign of doomsday; shortly after he passes again, doomsday hits and humanity reaches its finish line.

Jesus didn't actually die on the cross. Instead, someone else who looked just like him was crucified. Jesus is coming back to tell the world the truth about his identity. During that time, everyone will follow him, and he'll judge according to the Quran, which will lead to a massive shift toward Islam.

Since Jesus isn't dead, and God decreed that every soul must eventually pass away, Jesus will return to fulfill that requirement too.

The era of his return will be defined by massive conflict—we're talking World War III territory. But once peace finally takes hold, people will live in total abundance. We'll see absolute justice established on Earth for a few years, unlike anything we've ever seen before.
not to mention anything like it ever again.

Muhammad actually saw Jesus during the night of the Mi'raj and spoke with him. He described him as a very handsome man with long, curly hair falling to his shoulders, looking almost damp, like he had just stepped out of the shower.

If we live long enough to see the future where Jesus returns, we might actually catch a glimpse of him or even talk to him here on Earth. He'll live, get married, have kids, and eventually be laid to rest next to Muhammad in Medina, where Muslims will handle the burial.

I'm certain Jesus's return will trigger two polar opposite reactions: pure awe and total panic.

The awe comes from seeing a man who lived 2,000 years ago—someone without a father, someone who raised the dead and healed the blind and the sick. He's one of the closest people to God. Just watching him on a TV screen would be enough to leave you speechless, let alone being there in prayer and talking to him face-to-face.

Then there's the inevitable panic. That’s why his return is such a huge omen of doomsday; his death marks the beginning of the end. Just the thought that our world is ending and judgment day is arriving—when God judges all of humanity—would give you a stomach ache so intense it feels like your guts are twisting, leaving you blinded by darkness and gripped by nerves that won't quit.

Harold Reyes3 said:

So you're saying Muhammad has definitely moved on from this life, while Jesus will return only to die once more?

Exactly. Muhammad has left this world behind, but Jesus is still alive in heaven. He’s scheduled to return right toward the end of times. His return is a massive sign of doomsday; shortly after he passes again, doomsday hits and humanity reaches its finish line.

Jesus didn't actually die on the cross. Instead, someone else who looked just like him was crucified. Jesus is coming back to tell the world the truth about his identity. During that time, everyone will follow him, and he'll judge according to the Quran, which will lead to a massive shift toward Islam.

Since Jesus isn't dead, and God decreed that every soul must eventually pass away, Jesus will return to fulfill that requirement too.

The era of his return will be defined by massive conflict—we're talking World War III territory. But once peace finally takes hold, people will live in total abundance. We'll see absolute justice established on Earth for a few years, unlike anything we've ever seen before.
not to mention anything like it ever again.

Muhammad actually saw Jesus during the night of the Mi'raj and spoke with him. He described him as a very handsome man with long, curly hair falling to his shoulders, looking almost damp, like he had just stepped out of the shower.

If we live long enough to see the future where Jesus returns, we might actually catch a glimpse of him or even talk to him here on Earth. He'll live, get married, have kids, and eventually be laid to rest next to Muhammad in Medina, where Muslims will handle the burial.

I'm certain Jesus's return will trigger two polar opposite reactions: pure awe and total panic.

The awe comes from seeing a man who lived 2,000 years ago—someone without a father, someone who raised the dead and healed the blind and the sick. He's one of the closest people to God. Just watching him on a TV screen would be enough to leave you speechless, let alone being there in prayer and talking to him face-to-face.

Then there's the inevitable panic. That’s why his return is such a huge omen of doomsday; his death marks the beginning of the end. Just the thought that our world is ending and judgment day is arriving—when God judges all of humanity—would give you a stomach ache so intense it feels like your guts are twisting, leaving you blinded by darkness and gripped by nerves that won't quit.

So, uh, where's the actual proof for any of this?

Harold Reyes3 said:

That’s an interesting comparison. But let's be real—there are fundamental differences here that create a massive divide. It's a gap that isn't going away anytime soon. The only way forward is to face reality and leave the final judgment to God.

Those divides could vanish overnight if Christians were actually more devoted to Jesus and His teachings, rather than following people who twisted His message.

Let me give you a clear example. If Christians had rejected Paul, they would have had every reason to. He showed up after Jesus ascended and completely distorted what Jesus taught. Even though Jesus Himself said the old laws shouldn't be tossed aside, Paul went ahead and changed things, and Christians just followed his lead. Instead of sticking to what Jesus actually said, they chased after questionable figures and became followers of Paul instead of Jesus. Meanwhile, we Muslims are currently the only true followers of Jesus' actual teachings on Earth. If anyone is skeptical, just look at those 11 points above; it makes it crystal clear why we are the ones holding onto the true path.

If Christians did the same thing—if they just followed Jesus and cut Paul out—they would be almost indistinguishable from Muslims. You wouldn't even be able to tell who was who.

Just imagine if we had done that! If we Muslims had rejected Muhammad's teachings and started following some shady guy after Muhammad passed away, where would that have left us? 🙄It would be a complete disaster.

To stay on the right track, you have to stick with God's messenger. They are sent to explain the faith and show the way, not some random mortal with a suspicious doctrine. That’s exactly why we Muslims hold so tightly to our faith, the Quran, and the messenger Muhammad. We’ve maintained this unbroken connection for over 1,400 years. But you Christians lost touch with Jesus the moment you started following Paul and his warped versions of things. I’m certain that if Jesus appeared on Earth today, He wouldn't recognize modern Christianity at all. To Him, it would feel like a foreign country.

The Bible says Jesus prayed to God by falling face-down on the ground. Imagine what He’d think seeing how people pray in a church today—sitting in chairs, reading little poems, and singing loudly. Compare that to Muslims, who bow to God in lines exactly the way Jesus did. Where do you think He’d feel more at home? In a mosque among Muslims, or in a church sitting in a pew?
Look at Muslim women; they cover themselves just like His mother Mary and the other women of that era did. Then look at grandmas in churches singing songs written by who-knows-who. It’s obvious He’d be with the Muslims. After all, Muhammad says that when Jesus returns to Earth in the future, He will be with the Muslims, praying alongside them, and eventually laid to rest near Muhammad's grave.

Man, this is actually super interesting to me, so like, what kind of examples are we even talking about here?
And I think I'm finally starting to wrap my head around the difference, or maybe I'm wrong, but does this mean Muslims basically believe Christians are following Jesus the wrong way, like seeing him as just a prophet instead of being the Son of God?

So, where's the proof for these three claims?

It’s pretty straightforward: we look to the Quran as proof from God and rely on the Hadiths from Muhammad.

So, you might be sitting there wondering, "How can I actually be sure the Quran is from God?"

It’s pretty straightforward: if you dive deep into studying the Quran, you eventually land on the conclusion that it comes from God.

Everything lines up perfectly! There aren't any errors, zero contradictions, and absolutely no logical flaws that clash with reality. It’s all seamless.

Modern science is basically catching up to what the Quran already said. Think about it: back in the 7th century, nobody had access to high-powered telescopes, microscopes, supercomputers, or advanced lenses. To have that kind of data, you'd need a literal lab setup! Since those tools didn't exist back then, it’s just more proof to me that the Quran comes from God and isn't just some human invention.

Some non-Muslim Western scientists who have studied the Quran have pointed out that the information found within its pages simply must come from God!

The Quran is mathematically programmed. The way the texts, numbers, and geometry all sync up is just incredible. It’s another undeniable proof of the divine nature of the Quran—there is no way a human hand could have written something like that!

The Quran talks about future events—things that have already unfolded and things that are still on the horizon.

These five points give me everything I need to believe in this book and trust that it’s from God.

Ethan Martinez6 said:Man, this is actually super interesting to me, so like, what kind of examples are we even talking about here?
And I think I'm finally starting to wrap my head around the difference, or maybe I'm wrong, but does this mean Muslims basically believe Christians are following Jesus the wrong way, like seeing him as just a prophet instead of being the Son of God?

Well, it’s right there in the Bible—how he twisted Jesus's teachings

Alright, let's look together at where the split actually happened.

Jesus says you can't just scrap the old laws. He followed them strictly, including things like avoiding pork, and he explicitly forbade anyone from getting rid of them.

The Bible says this about Jesus:

17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the prophets. I did not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter, not a stroke of a pen, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who breaks one of the least of these commands and teaches others to do the same will be least in the kingdom of heaven. (Bible)

But check out what Paul did.

Paul writes:
Therefore, anyone who believes will be justified from everything they could not be justified by according to the Mosaic law! (Bible)

It's crystal clear here: Paul is abolishing the very laws Jesus said shouldn't be abolished. That’s when Christianity was born. Basically, Christianity is Paul's baby because he's the one who birthed it, not Jesus.

So, the big question is: who should we prioritize?

Jesus, who came from God? Or some guy after Jesus who didn't share the same teachings and actually distorted them? Here's the rub: Christians started following Paul instead of Jesus. When it becomes obvious why, we'll see why Jesus might turn Christians away from him on Judgment Day because they didn't stick to his faith.

Just look at how Jesus will reject Christians on Judgment Day.

Jesus says in the Bible:

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my heavenly Father. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'""

When people are told not to eat pork, they say, "Oh, it's fine, Paul gave us permission," and then you see how delicious pork tastes at Christmas dinner.

Then it becomes totally clear why Jesus will be so harsh with Christians. Because who else is calling Jesus "Lord," prophesying in his name, and driving out demons if not Christians? It's not even Jews or Muslims.

Basically, Jesus came with the true religion, Islam. Then Paul came along after him, twisted it, and that's how Christianity was born. Later, God had to send another messenger, Muhammad, and the Quran to warn Christians and correct the wrong beliefs that piled up over the centuries.

Harold Reyes3, you’ve sure put a lot of thought into all this, and I guess maybe you probably know the Quran a whole lot better than I know the Bible... so I think I'll just go ahead and ask someone who might actually be more of an expert on the subject what they think about it, but anyway, thanks a ton for taking the time to type all that out.😉

Based on everything we’re seeing here, it looks like Jesus plays a much bigger role in God's plans than Muhammad does.

Ethan Martinez6 said:Harold Reyes3, you’ve sure put a lot of thought into all this, and I guess maybe you probably know the Quran a whole lot better than I know the Bible... so I think I'll just go ahead and ask someone who might actually be more of an expert on the subject what they think about it, but anyway, thanks a ton for taking the time to type all that out.😉

Look, I know both the Bible and the Quran inside and out.😉

I think I'll just ask someone who actually knows it better what they think about all this.

Well, if you go asking some Christians, they’ll definitely dig up some Pauline statements to argue that the old law doesn't matter anymore. But pay attention: focus on Paul's words, not Jesus's. Jesus never authorized getting rid of the old laws—Paul did that. Most Christians justify throwing out the law by pointing to the guy who finished it off: Paul.

Bottom line? We have to tackle this issue with hard evidence and logic from every angle. Honestly, does it make sense to follow the teachings of someone who didn't share the exact same doctrine as Jesus? God sent Jesus to lead the people back to the right path so they could live by divine decrees and eventually enter paradise.
It really blows my mind how Christians cling to Paul instead of Jesus. It's like they think God sent Paul directly instead of Jesus. It’s weird—just plain weird. I can't wrap my head around it.

In our community, if someone says anything contrary to what the Prophet taught, we reject them immediately. We see them as innovators falling into sin. But with Christians, they can scrap the entire law without anyone batting an eye, and they'll swallow it whole without any hesitation. It doesn't matter that Jesus said the laws wouldn't be abolished, or that Jesus himself kept those laws and forbade changing them. They just say "it is what it is," but they'll have to answer for that on Judgment Day.

And imagine the shock for those Christians when they see Jesus! They rush toward him, and Jesus hits them like a freight train with: 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you evildoers.' That’s worse than a slap in the face! People were throwing insults at Jesus while he was alive, and now suddenly Jesus is telling them to run away and calling them evildoers? If Muhammad did that to us on Judgment Day, we’d be absolutely devastated.

Ethan Martinez6 said:Harold Reyes3, you’ve sure put a lot of thought into all this, and I guess maybe you probably know the Quran a whole lot better than I know the Bible... so I think I'll just go ahead and ask someone who might actually be more of an expert on the subject what they think about it, but anyway, thanks a ton for taking the time to type all that out.😉

What Harold Reyes3 wrote seems to be a bit of everything, I guess. The way he cites the Bible—which he doesn't actually know or even truly accept, except for the parts that happen to suit Muslims—is really just an indication of how arrogant certain worldviews can be; it's as if followers of one specific religion feel they must label anything that falls outside their own framework as a lie. As a Christian, I try my best to act according to my faith—though, unfortunately, I don't always succeed—and I make it a point not to lecture anyone regarding the Quran, simply because I don't know it well enough. Honestly, being aggressive or disparaging toward someone else's beliefs usually just reveals what kind of believer, or even what kind of person, someone truly is.

Based on all this, it looks like Jesus holds a more central role in God's grand design than Muhammad does.

Honestly, they're essentially cut from the same cloth. There isn't a massive divide here—just different messengers sent at different points in history.

Paul Kern12 said:What Harold Reyes3 wrote seems to be a bit of everything, I guess. The way he cites the Bible—which he doesn't actually know or even truly accept, except for the parts that happen to suit Muslims—is really just an indication of how arrogant certain worldviews can be; it's as if followers of one specific religion feel they must label anything that falls outside their own framework as a lie. As a Christian, I try my best to act according to my faith—though, unfortunately, I don't always succeed—and I make it a point not to lecture anyone regarding the Quran, simply because I don't know it well enough. Honestly, being aggressive or disparaging toward someone else's beliefs usually just reveals what kind of believer, or even what kind of person, someone truly is.

I guess I also try to live my life the Christian way, but since I don't really know much about the things he's bringing up, he definitely has the upper hand here... And Harold Reyes3 is certainly set in his ways, maybe even a bit aggressive, but I don't think that necessarily means he's just being arrogant or clueless, because at least he's actually laying out his arguments, which I think most people here aren't really doing... To be honest, the idea that Christians chose to ignore Jesus in favor of someone else feels like a bit of a stretch to me, but man, it really does make me wonder.

Paul Kern12 said:What Harold Reyes3 wrote seems to be a bit of everything, I guess. The way he cites the Bible—which he doesn't actually know or even truly accept, except for the parts that happen to suit Muslims—is really just an indication of how arrogant certain worldviews can be; it's as if followers of one specific religion feel they must label anything that falls outside their own framework as a lie. As a Christian, I try my best to act according to my faith—though, unfortunately, I don't always succeed—and I make it a point not to lecture anyone regarding the Quran, simply because I don't know it well enough. Honestly, being aggressive or disparaging toward someone else's beliefs usually just reveals what kind of believer, or even what kind of person, someone truly is.

Look, Harold Reyes3 actually laid out some solid evidence for his claims, pulling directly from the Bible to back it all up. But when people start coming at him? It’s usually just a bunch of noise—lots of empty arguments without any actual proof or real substance to back them up.

As a Christian, I try my best to live out my faith—even if I don't always nail it! Honestly, I’m not going to lecture anyone about the Quran since I simply don't know enough about it to weigh in.

Look, I’m not just talking out of turn here. I’ve spent years pouring over the Bible—I know it inside and out. I spend my time weighing the Bible against the Quran, digging into the similarities, spotting the differences, and seeing how it all stacks up.

Aggressively spitting on someone else's faith or looking down on what they believe? That tells you everything you need to know about their character and their relationship with God.

Look, I’m not trying to spit on anyone's faith here. Believe whatever you want! I’m just laying out the evidence from the Bible to back up my point.

It’s honestly laughable. Even the birds in the trees know that most Christians are following Paul instead of Jesus. You try to tell them to actually follow Jesus, and they just get all defensive and offended! 🙄 And then they vote, "NO WAY!" They’re basically asking, "How can we just ditch the pork? What about circumcision and all those other rituals?" 🙄 Come on!

Of course it’s going to rub them the wrong way! When you drop the truth on people—even when it’s hard to swallow—you’re just going to get that "take it or leave it" reaction. It’s like giving someone a bitter pill; they might not like the taste, but it's the reality nonetheless.

I mean, I guess you have to wonder why things like avoiding pork or circumcision are treated as such big markers of faith, because maybe it’s just another case where religious belief and old-school tradition get all tangled up together, right?

Ethan Martinez6 said:I guess I also try to live my life the Christian way, but since I don't really know much about the things he's bringing up, he definitely has the upper hand here... And Harold Reyes3 is certainly set in his ways, maybe even a bit aggressive, but I don't think that necessarily means he's just being arrogant or clueless, because at least he's actually laying out his arguments, which I think most people here aren't really doing... To be honest, the idea that Christians chose to ignore Jesus in favor of someone else feels like a bit of a stretch to me, but man, it really does make me wonder.

It's clear you're a genuine person. You approach everything with such an open mind, and honestly, that's how everyone should act. People could really learn from your attitude.

Only when you approach things with an open heart, without any bias, and start thinking logically, do all the pieces fall into place and the truth become clearer.

honestly the idea that Christians decided not to listen to Jesus in favor of someone after him is an exaggeration to me

Look, I laid it out very simply above: what Jesus said versus what Paul said.

Jesus strictly forbade changing the law and said it must be followed. But then Paul, following Jesus's ascension, preaches about doing away with the law. That essentially creates a whole new religion. Once you start swapping out the rules, you've basically built a new faith with its own playbook.

All you have to do is look at Jesus's actions and words, then look at Christians today. There isn't a chance you'll find a Christian acting exactly like Jesus did. Now, look at Muslims—you'll see a massive amount of Jesus among them because they share the same roots and follow both Jesus and Muhammad. It makes sense that they'd align with those two great figures; in fact, in terms of appearance, Muslims actually look more like Jesus than many Christians do.

Jesus, according to the Christian movie version:


How Muslims dress today:

Harold Reyes3 said:Look, Harold Reyes3 actually laid out some solid evidence for his claims, pulling directly from the Bible to back it all up. But when people start coming at him? It’s usually just a bunch of noise—lots of empty arguments without any actual proof or real substance to back them up.

As a Christian, I try my best to live out my faith—even if I don't always nail it! Honestly, I’m not going to lecture anyone about the Quran since I simply don't know enough about it to weigh in.

Look, I’m not just talking out of turn here. I’ve spent years pouring over the Bible—I know it inside and out. I spend my time weighing the Bible against the Quran, digging into the similarities, spotting the differences, and seeing how it all stacks up.

Aggressively spitting on someone else's faith or looking down on what they believe? That tells you everything you need to know about their character and their relationship with God.

Look, I’m not trying to spit on anyone's faith here. Believe whatever you want! I’m just laying out the evidence from the Bible to back up my point.

It’s honestly laughable. Even the birds in the trees know that most Christians are following Paul instead of Jesus. You try to tell them to actually follow Jesus, and they just get all defensive and offended! 🙄 And then they vote, "NO WAY!" They’re basically asking, "How can we just ditch the pork? What about circumcision and all those other rituals?" 🙄 Come on!

Of course it’s going to rub them the wrong way! When you drop the truth on people—even when it’s hard to swallow—you’re just going to get that "take it or leave it" reaction. It’s like giving someone a bitter pill; they might not like the taste, but it's the reality nonetheless.

Who is talking about what? You're focused on pork and circumcision. Jesus clearly stated that it is not what enters a man through his mouth that defiles him, but what comes out of his heart. You mention wine (as in alcohol), yet it was Jesus himself who turned water into wine. If spirituality were solely about food and drink, some Hindus might actually outpace us all (and there are quite a few of them, too).
The Bible is a book written by people under divine inspiration over many centuries. You either accept it or you don't. The fact that certain parts (most of it, actually) don't appeal to you—though I wonder, by what authority do you speak?—is your own issue.
You claim that you adhere to Jesus's teachings, but to me, seeing people bow and walk around a stone block seems somewhat ridiculous. In my view, that is just as much idolatry as bowing to statues or paintings.

Ethan Martinez6 said:I mean, I guess you have to wonder why things like avoiding pork or circumcision are treated as such big markers of faith, because maybe it’s just another case where religious belief and old-school tradition get all tangled up together, right?

It's because God forbade pork since it's an unclean animal, which falls under the law. Jesus followed that law and didn't eat pork, but look at this one thing:

Both the Bible and the Quran call pork unclean, and science actually backs that up. Just check out

how this person suffered from eating pork—

they ended up with brain tapeworms from eating pork.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwstyazpFpE

Then you realize why God banned pork. It’s not for no reason! There's a purpose here: protecting the human body from potential diseases that could lead to death.

As for circumcision, that was Abraham's practice and we all follow it—Jesus, Muhammad, and other Muslims and Jews. Christians just don't do it.

And what's the benefit of circumcision? Huge benefits! First, it's about hygiene. Second, it prevents disease; even HIV is harder to transmit when circumcised compared to when uncircumcised. Plus, women often prefer the uncircumcised look, though being circumcised can help with sensitivity and stamina during sex. On top of that, it's much cleaner when circumcised. When you aren't, urine droplets can get trapped under the foreskin, making things unhygienic.

So, that's why we don't eat pork and why circumcision happens. 😁

Harold Reyes3, I’m not saying you’re lying or anything like that, really, but I guess everyone is naturally prone to being subjective and influenced by all sorts of things, and since I know the Bible pretty well, I realize that the same verses can sometimes be interpreted in totally different ways if they're taken out of context... so I was just wondering what someone who doesn't see eye to eye with you would say about those same passages...

Regarding how people dress, I mean, I think it's mostly just down to the climate, like if you were ever in Egypt, where that midday sun just absolutely scorches you at like 120 degrees and then a wind kicks up and you feel the sand hitting your skin, ugh, there's just no way any sane person is walking around in short sleeves or without covering their head
It's kind of the same thing with circumcision, too; the hygiene reasons for doing that aren't really the same as they would be for, say, Scandinavians

And as for what women prefer, uhh, I guess uncircumcised men would probably make the exact same argument for themselves😁

Harold Reyes3 said:It's clear you're a genuine person. You approach everything with such an open mind, and honestly, that's how everyone should act. People could really learn from your attitude.

Only when you approach things with an open heart, without any bias, and start thinking logically, do all the pieces fall into place and the truth become clearer.

honestly the idea that Christians decided not to listen to Jesus in favor of someone after him is an exaggeration to me

Look, I laid it out very simply above: what Jesus said versus what Paul said.

Jesus strictly forbade changing the law and said it must be followed. But then Paul, following Jesus's ascension, preaches about doing away with the law. That essentially creates a whole new religion. Once you start swapping out the rules, you've basically built a new faith with its own playbook.

All you have to do is look at Jesus's actions and words, then look at Christians today. There isn't a chance you'll find a Christian acting exactly like Jesus did. Now, look at Muslims—you'll see a massive amount of Jesus among them because they share the same roots and follow both Jesus and Muhammad. It makes sense that they'd align with those two great figures; in fact, in terms of appearance, Muslims actually look more like Jesus than many Christians do.

Jesus, according to the Christian movie version:


How Muslims dress today:

Jesus said: Love your enemies and bless those who curse you. Yet, hardly a day passes without hearing news from some part of the world where people are being killed in the name of Islam.
The point you made regarding the images is quite silly—that is nothing more than a Hollywood production and a mere vision. No one actually knows what Jesus looked like back then. Your argument carries zero weight.

Paul Kern12 said:Who is talking about what? You're focused on pork and circumcision. Jesus clearly stated that it is not what enters a man through his mouth that defiles him, but what comes out of his heart. You mention wine (as in alcohol), yet it was Jesus himself who turned water into wine. If spirituality were solely about food and drink, some Hindus might actually outpace us all (and there are quite a few of them, too).
The Bible is a book written by people under divine inspiration over many centuries. You either accept it or you don't. The fact that certain parts (most of it, actually) don't appeal to you—though I wonder, by what authority do you speak?—is your own issue.
You claim that you adhere to Jesus's teachings, but to me, seeing people bow and walk around a stone block seems somewhat ridiculous. In my view, that is just as much idolatry as bowing to statues or paintings.

Jesus clearly stated that it isn't what enters a person through their mouth that makes them unclean, but what comes out of their heart.

.

The question is whether he actually said that, considering it clashes with logic. I find it hard to believe that God's people were illogical, because they were wise people.

By saying that, you're degrading Jesus's wisdom and knowledge. Personally, I’d consider myself smarter than Jesus in that situation if he allows things that ruin your life—like pork, alcohol, drugs, etc.—while I'm over here saying "no thanks" to save my life. In that case, everyone would be wiser than Jesus, which is just plain nonsense. He couldn't have said such a thing.

Because if evil doesn't enter through the mouth in the form of alcohol—where you can end up ruined by various things, committing murder, rape, abuse, causing car accidents, getting cancer, etc.—then if this evil doesn't enter through the mouth, 🙄there's simply no logic in what you're saying.

You mention wine (as in alcohol), but Jesus actually turned water into wine.

If Jesus really turned water into wine, that isn't proof that we should be drinking. For example, if he turned water into snake venom, does that mean we should drink it? 🙄

How could Jesus drink alcohol if it's harmful and causes you to lose your mind, especially for someone so close to God who guides people toward the right path? Would he walk around the streets of Jerusalem drunk? Could a man sent by God allow something that ruins and destroys our lives?

This is right here in the Bible:

Ephesians 5:18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery, but instead be filled with the Holy Spirit.

It makes no sense for Jesus to have been drinking wine and alcohol after this text, especially since we know Jesus strictly followed the old laws.

Or look at this:

Luke 1:15 For he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He will drink neither wine nor strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even before his birth..

The Bible is basically a collection of books written by people inspired by God over many centuries.

That’s just not accurate. The Bible actually contradicts everything you're saying right here—let me show you how.

Luke says the Bible was put together by listening to people’s stories and writing down whatever they heard. To him, it’s just a standard history book—one where things could easily get mixed up or contain mistakes.

A lot of people have already jumped in to write up reports on everything that’s been going down between us.
Just like they handed them down to us from the original fathers and the servants of the Word.
So, I’ve decided to do the same thing. I'm going to dig through everything from their very beginning, piece by piece, and lay it all out for you in order, my noble Theophilus!,

If most of the Bible doesn't sit right with you—and honestly, who are you to be the judge anyway?—then that’s your own issue to deal with.

It seems like you don't actually care for much in the Bible. Honestly, just take a look at how Jesus lived and what He taught, then compare that to your own actions—you'll see how much you truly love His word. Even when you were washing up before prayer, you were bowing face-down on the floor just like a Muslim or like Jesus himself. You've never done anything else! 🙄

You claim you follow Jesus's teachings, but honestly? It looks pretty ridiculous to me when you're bowing down and circling some hunk of stone. To my eyes, that’s just idolatry, plain and simple—just like worshiping statues or paintings.

We shouldn't be bowing down to a literal stone block. That rock is just a compass—a way to point us in the right direction when we pray to God. We aren't worshipping a piece of granite in Mecca; heaven forbid!
It’s all about staying unified. If we didn't have a clear direction to follow, everyone would just be doing their own thing and worshipping whatever they felt like. It would turn into total chaos among believers in no time!

Ethan Martinez6 said:Harold Reyes3, I’m not saying you’re lying or anything like that, really, but I guess everyone is naturally prone to being subjective and influenced by all sorts of things, and since I know the Bible pretty well, I realize that the same verses can sometimes be interpreted in totally different ways if they're taken out of context... so I was just wondering what someone who doesn't see eye to eye with you would say about those same passages...

Regarding how people dress, I mean, I think it's mostly just down to the climate, like if you were ever in Egypt, where that midday sun just absolutely scorches you at like 120 degrees and then a wind kicks up and you feel the sand hitting your skin, ugh, there's just no way any sane person is walking around in short sleeves or without covering their head
It's kind of the same thing with circumcision, too; the hygiene reasons for doing that aren't really the same as they would be for, say, Scandinavians

And as for what women prefer, uhh, I guess uncircumcised men would probably make the exact same argument for themselves😁

so what I really want is to hear how someone who disagrees with you explains those same passages...

Well, just go ask! And once you find out, report back here so I can give my two cents on their arguments.😁

Regarding clothing, I think it's mostly about the climate. If you've ever been to Egypt, when that midday sun hits at 122°F and the wind picks up, you feel the sand hitting your skin—ugh! No sane person is walking around in short sleeves or leaving their head uncovered there.

Wrong. It isn't about the heat; it's specifically because of Divine mandates.

Because God states in the Quran why women should cover up: to protect them from harassers, which is better for them.

If it were just about the heat, who actually wants to wear layers of clothes when it's over 104°F outside?🙄

It's the same with circumcision; the hygiene reasons in those temperatures aren't the same as they would be for, say, a Scandinavian.

That isn't an excuse to skip it. If the law says it must be done, then it must be done.

Plus, an uncircumcised male organ can always collect droplets of urine under the foreskin regardless of where he is, which can cause infections in a woman during sex. It doesn't matter if it's hot or cold.

And as for women liking it, uhh, I bet uncircumcised men will claim the exact same thing for themselves.

I’m just going off what I’ve heard from girls who have actually been through it 😁 so, honestly? We guys definitely have a massive leg up! Hahaha