To be or not to be... a father?

swiftcobra15 · 2007-04-17T13:19:22+00:00

The Germans have a wise saying: "Becoming a Father isn't hard, but being a Father is a different story entirely." Anyone can step up to become a father, but tr…

swiftcobra15 RegularOP

305 messages
joined Dec 2002

#21 · Apr 19, 2007

William Gonzalez3 said:

Well, I guess we have to travel back thousands of years to the era of the ancient Greek philosophers who loved carving whatever random thoughts crossed their minds into stone. One of those famous bits was "know thyself."
In that sense, you’ve already experienced what it truly means to be a parent.
Why did you decide to have kids in the first place?
Why, after the first one, did you go ahead and have a second?
And why a third after that?
And honestly, why did you choose to actually *be* a father once they were born? You could have just packed up, headed down to South America, changed your name, started a vineyard, and nobody would ever have found you.
Why stay? Was it because you wanted to, or perhaps because that’s what society expected of you? Or maybe it was simply because you wanted to be there for them? Why did you want to be present? What exactly were you trying to provide for them? And, if I may ask, why did you feel the need to give them those things?

As for me, I’d actually like to have quite a few children—maybe ten or so—since the government offers such decent agricultural subsidies for raising livestock. Beyond that, I’m planning on finding a very intelligent wife, because I recall hearing something in biology class that when two highly intelligent parents have children, those children often end up being merely average. So, if someone like me—who is, let's face it, significantly below average in intelligence—has children with a brilliant woman, then our kids might actually turn out to be Einsteins. Though, I’m not entirely sure I'll find a woman smart enough to realize my potential for massive stupidity while also agreeing to produce a whole brood of hyper-intelligent children just to chase those government subsidies.
I suppose I'll just have to rely on luck rather than brains.
If all goes well, those little Einsteins will earn a fortune, and eventually, they'll probably hand it all back to their old man to spend on drinks and bad decisions. Which, I suppose, is only fair, given that I’m gifting them both life and high intellect.

The only thing that could really ruin my plan is if I suddenly gain some common sense.
I try to be very careful about that. I watch plenty of TV (nothing educational, just mindless entertainment and politics), I don't read much, I don't do crosswords, I don't think too deeply, I don't play chess, and I spend a fair amount of time hitting my head against the wall...
I really have to keep my intellectual capacity low just to ensure I remain a viable partner for producing future Einsteins.
Well, I guess we have to travel back thousands of years to the era of the ancient Greek philosophers who loved carving whatever random thoughts crossed their minds into stone. One of those famous bits was "know thyself."
In that sense, you’ve already experienced what it truly means to be a parent.
Why did you decide to have kids in the first place?
Why, after the first one, did you go ahead and have a second?
And why a third after that?
And honestly, why did you choose to actually *be* a father once they were born? You could have just packed up, headed down to South America, changed your name, started a vineyard, and nobody would ever have found you.
Why stay? Was it because you wanted to, or perhaps because that’s what society expected of you? Or maybe it was simply because you wanted to be there for them? Why did you want to be present? What exactly were you trying to provide for them? And, if I may ask, why did you feel the need to give them those things?

As for me, I’d actually like to have quite a few children—maybe ten or so—since the government offers such decent agricultural subsidies for raising livestock. Beyond that, I’m planning on finding a very intelligent wife, because I recall hearing something in biology class that when two highly intelligent parents have children, those children often end up being merely average. So, if someone like me—who is, let's face it, significantly below average in intelligence—has children with a brilliant woman, then our kids might actually turn out to be Einsteins. Though, I’m not entirely sure I'll find a woman smart enough to realize my potential for massive stupidity while also agreeing to produce a whole brood of hyper-intelligent children just to chase those government subsidies.
I suppose I'll just have to rely on luck rather than brains.
If all goes well, those little Einsteins will earn a fortune, and eventually, they'll probably hand it all back to their old man to spend on drinks and bad decisions. Which, I suppose, is only fair, given that I’m gifting them both life and high intellect.

The only thing that could really ruin my plan is if I suddenly gain some common sense.
I try to be very careful about that. I watch plenty of TV (nothing educational, just mindless entertainment and politics), I don't read much, I don't do crosswords, I don't think too deeply, I don't play chess, and I spend a fair amount of time hitting my head against the wall...
I really have to keep my intellectual capacity low just to ensure I remain a viable partner for producing future Einsteins.[/COLOR]
Well, I guess we have to travel back thousands of years to the era of the ancient Greek philosophers who loved carving whatever random thoughts crossed their minds into stone. One of those famous bits was "know thyself."
In that sense, you’ve already experienced what it truly means to be a parent.
Why did you decide to have kids in the first place?
Why, after the first one, did you go ahead and have a second?
And why a third after that?
And honestly, why did you choose to actually *be* a father once they were born? You could have just packed up, headed down to South America, changed your name, started a vineyard, and nobody would ever have found you.
Why stay? Was it because you wanted to, or perhaps because that’s what society expected of you? Or maybe it was simply because you wanted to be there for them? Why did you want to be present? What exactly were you trying to provide for them? And, if I may ask, why did you feel the need to give them those things?

As for me, I’d actually like to have quite a few children—maybe ten or so—since the government offers such decent agricultural subsidies for raising livestock. Beyond that, I’m planning on finding a very intelligent wife, because I recall hearing something in biology class that when two highly intelligent parents have children, those children often end up being merely average. So, if someone like me—who is, let's face it, significantly below average in intelligence—has children with a brilliant woman, then our kids might actually turn out to be Einsteins. Though, I’m not entirely sure I'll find a woman smart enough to realize my potential for massive stupidity while also agreeing to produce a whole brood of hyper-intelligent children just to chase those government subsidies.
I suppose I'll just have to rely on luck rather than brains.
If all goes well, those little Einsteins will earn a fortune, and eventually, they'll probably hand it all back to their old man to spend on drinks and bad decisions. Which, I suppose, is only fair, given that I’m gifting them both life and high intellect.

The only thing that could really ruin my plan is if I suddenly gain some common sense.
I try to be very careful about that. I watch plenty of TV (nothing educational, just mindless entertainment and politics), I don't read much, I don't do crosswords, I don't think too deeply, I don't play chess, and I spend a fair amount of time hitting my head against the wall...
I really have to keep my intellectual capacity low just to ensure I remain a viable partner for producing future Einsteins.[/COLOR]

I just hope those little geniuses don't ask for too much (money, obviously) during the few years I have left. 🧐

William Gonzalez3 Regular

276 messages
joined May 2009

#22 · Apr 19, 2007

swiftcobra15 said:Well, I guess we have to travel back thousands of years to the era of the ancient Greek philosophers who loved carving whatever random thoughts crossed their minds into stone. One of those famous bits was "know thyself."
In that sense, you’ve already experienced what it truly means to be a parent.
Why did you decide to have kids in the first place?
Why, after the first one, did you go ahead and have a second?
And why a third after that?
And honestly, why did you choose to actually *be* a father once they were born? You could have just packed up, headed down to South America, changed your name, started a vineyard, and nobody would ever have found you.
Why stay? Was it because you wanted to, or perhaps because that’s what society expected of you? Or maybe it was simply because you wanted to be there for them? Why did you want to be present? What exactly were you trying to provide for them? And, if I may ask, why did you feel the need to give them those things?

As for me, I’d actually like to have quite a few children—maybe ten or so—since the government offers such decent agricultural subsidies for raising livestock. Beyond that, I’m planning on finding a very intelligent wife, because I recall hearing something in biology class that when two highly intelligent parents have children, those children often end up being merely average. So, if someone like me—who is, let's face it, significantly below average in intelligence—has children with a brilliant woman, then our kids might actually turn out to be Einsteins. Though, I’m not entirely sure I'll find a woman smart enough to realize my potential for massive stupidity while also agreeing to produce a whole brood of hyper-intelligent children just to chase those government subsidies.
I suppose I'll just have to rely on luck rather than brains.
If all goes well, those little Einsteins will earn a fortune, and eventually, they'll probably hand it all back to their old man to spend on drinks and bad decisions. Which, I suppose, is only fair, given that I’m gifting them both life and high intellect.

The only thing that could really ruin my plan is if I suddenly gain some common sense.
I try to be very careful about that. I watch plenty of TV (nothing educational, just mindless entertainment and politics), I don't read much, I don't do crosswords, I don't think too deeply, I don't play chess, and I spend a fair amount of time hitting my head against the wall...
I really have to keep my intellectual capacity low just to ensure I remain a viable partner for producing future Einsteins.

Well, I guess we have to travel back thousands of years to the era of the ancient Greek philosophers who loved carving whatever random thoughts crossed their minds into stone. One of those famous bits was "know thyself."
In that sense, you’ve already experienced what it truly means to be a parent.
Why did you decide to have kids in the first place?
Why, after the first one, did you go ahead and have a second?
And why a third after that?
And honestly, why did you choose to actually *be* a father once they were born? You could have just packed up, headed down to South America, changed your name, started a vineyard, and nobody would ever have found you.
Why stay? Was it because you wanted to, or perhaps because that’s what society expected of you? Or maybe it was simply because you wanted to be there for them? Why did you want to be present? What exactly were you trying to provide for them? And, if I may ask, why did you feel the need to give them those things?

As for me, I’d actually like to have quite a few children—maybe ten or so—since the government offers such decent agricultural subsidies for raising livestock. Beyond that, I’m planning on finding a very intelligent wife, because I recall hearing something in biology class that when two highly intelligent parents have children, those children often end up being merely average. So, if someone like me—who is, let's face it, significantly below average in intelligence—has children with a brilliant woman, then our kids might actually turn out to be Einsteins. Though, I’m not entirely sure I'll find a woman smart enough to realize my potential for massive stupidity while also agreeing to produce a whole brood of hyper-intelligent children just to chase those government subsidies.
I suppose I'll just have to rely on luck rather than brains.
If all goes well, those little Einsteins will earn a fortune, and eventually, they'll probably hand it all back to their old man to spend on drinks and bad decisions. Which, I suppose, is only fair, given that I’m gifting them both life and high intellect.

The only thing that could really ruin my plan is if I suddenly gain some common sense.
I try to be very careful about that. I watch plenty of TV (nothing educational, just mindless entertainment and politics), I don't read much, I don't do crosswords, I don't think too deeply, I don't play chess, and I spend a fair amount of time hitting my head against the wall...
I really have to keep my intellectual capacity low just to ensure I remain a viable partner for producing future Einsteins.[/COLOR]
How can you even think that? I’ve heard all sorts of things from you, but I’ve never heard you use that impersonal "it" before. Did you actually want kids? Why?
What first comes to my mind is that men want children because they want someone to be proud of—sort of a legacy thing.
Every dad dreams his son will play for LAFC and/or turn out to be incredibly smart. Then, they have to face the reality that kids are naturally stubborn—they don't exactly make things easy—and then they end up disappointed when their son decides to go to art school instead of pursuing sports. And so it goes... all in all, I suppose it feels to me like fathers want kids just to give themselves a second chance at life, trying to achieve everything they missed out on due to their own mistakes. Of course, they think they can point those mistakes out to the child. At least, they hope they can. But then what happens—as I mentioned—is that the kids become rebellious, and everything just falls apart. But by then, dads realize it too late. I guess that's just how Mother Nature designed it. After all, she is female.

swiftcobra15 said:Well, I guess we have to travel back thousands of years to the era of the ancient Greek philosophers who loved carving whatever random thoughts crossed their minds into stone. One of those famous bits was "know thyself."
In that sense, you’ve already experienced what it truly means to be a parent.
Why did you decide to have kids in the first place?
Why, after the first one, did you go ahead and have a second?
And why a third after that?
And honestly, why did you choose to actually *be* a father once they were born? You could have just packed up, headed down to South America, changed your name, started a vineyard, and nobody would ever have found you.
Why stay? Was it because you wanted to, or perhaps because that’s what society expected of you? Or maybe it was simply because you wanted to be there for them? Why did you want to be present? What exactly were you trying to provide for them? And, if I may ask, why did you feel the need to give them those things?

As for me, I’d actually like to have quite a few children—maybe ten or so—since the government offers such decent agricultural subsidies for raising livestock. Beyond that, I’m planning on finding a very intelligent wife, because I recall hearing something in biology class that when two highly intelligent parents have children, those children often end up being merely average. So, if someone like me—who is, let's face it, significantly below average in intelligence—has children with a brilliant woman, then our kids might actually turn out to be Einsteins. Though, I’m not entirely sure I'll find a woman smart enough to realize my potential for massive stupidity while also agreeing to produce a whole brood of hyper-intelligent children just to chase those government subsidies.
I suppose I'll just have to rely on luck rather than brains.
If all goes well, those little Einsteins will earn a fortune, and eventually, they'll probably hand it all back to their old man to spend on drinks and bad decisions. Which, I suppose, is only fair, given that I’m gifting them both life and high intellect.

The only thing that could really ruin my plan is if I suddenly gain some common sense.
I try to be very careful about that. I watch plenty of TV (nothing educational, just mindless entertainment and politics), I don't read much, I don't do crosswords, I don't think too deeply, I don't play chess, and I spend a fair amount of time hitting my head against the wall...
I really have to keep my intellectual capacity low just to ensure I remain a viable partner for producing future Einsteins.[/COLOR]

Well, I guess we have to travel back thousands of years to the era of the ancient Greek philosophers who loved carving whatever random thoughts crossed their minds into stone. One of those famous bits was "know thyself."
In that sense, you’ve already experienced what it truly means to be a parent.
Why did you decide to have kids in the first place?
Why, after the first one, did you go ahead and have a second?
And why a third after that?
And honestly, why did you choose to actually *be* a father once they were born? You could have just packed up, headed down to South America, changed your name, started a vineyard, and nobody would ever have found you.
Why stay? Was it because you wanted to, or perhaps because that’s what society expected of you? Or maybe it was simply because you wanted to be there for them? Why did you want to be present? What exactly were you trying to provide for them? And, if I may ask, why did you feel the need to give them those things?

As for me, I’d actually like to have quite a few children—maybe ten or so—since the government offers such decent agricultural subsidies for raising livestock. Beyond that, I’m planning on finding a very intelligent wife, because I recall hearing something in biology class that when two highly intelligent parents have children, those children often end up being merely average. So, if someone like me—who is, let's face it, significantly below average in intelligence—has children with a brilliant woman, then our kids might actually turn out to be Einsteins. Though, I’m not entirely sure I'll find a woman smart enough to realize my potential for massive stupidity while also agreeing to produce a whole brood of hyper-intelligent children just to chase those government subsidies.
I suppose I'll just have to rely on luck rather than brains.
If all goes well, those little Einsteins will earn a fortune, and eventually, they'll probably hand it all back to their old man to spend on drinks and bad decisions. Which, I suppose, is only fair, given that I’m gifting them both life and high intellect.

The only thing that could really ruin my plan is if I suddenly gain some common sense.
I try to be very careful about that. I watch plenty of TV (nothing educational, just mindless entertainment and politics), I don't read much, I don't do crosswords, I don't think too deeply, I don't play chess, and I spend a fair amount of time hitting my head against the wall...
I really have to keep my intellectual capacity low just to ensure I remain a viable partner for producing future Einsteins.[/COLOR]
Well, there you have it...

swiftcobra15 said:Well, I guess we have to travel back thousands of years to the era of the ancient Greek philosophers who loved carving whatever random thoughts crossed their minds into stone. One of those famous bits was "know thyself."
In that sense, you’ve already experienced what it truly means to be a parent.
Why did you decide to have kids in the first place?
Why, after the first one, did you go ahead and have a second?
And why a third after that?
And honestly, why did you choose to actually *be* a father once they were born? You could have just packed up, headed down to South America, changed your name, started a vineyard, and nobody would ever have found you.
Why stay? Was it because you wanted to, or perhaps because that’s what society expected of you? Or maybe it was simply because you wanted to be there for them? Why did you want to be present? What exactly were you trying to provide for them? And, if I may ask, why did you feel the need to give them those things?

As for me, I’d actually like to have quite a few children—maybe ten or so—since the government offers such decent agricultural subsidies for raising livestock. Beyond that, I’m planning on finding a very intelligent wife, because I recall hearing something in biology class that when two highly intelligent parents have children, those children often end up being merely average. So, if someone like me—who is, let's face it, significantly below average in intelligence—has children with a brilliant woman, then our kids might actually turn out to be Einsteins. Though, I’m not entirely sure I'll find a woman smart enough to realize my potential for massive stupidity while also agreeing to produce a whole brood of hyper-intelligent children just to chase those government subsidies.
I suppose I'll just have to rely on luck rather than brains.
If all goes well, those little Einsteins will earn a fortune, and eventually, they'll probably hand it all back to their old man to spend on drinks and bad decisions. Which, I suppose, is only fair, given that I’m gifting them both life and high intellect.

The only thing that could really ruin my plan is if I suddenly gain some common sense.
I try to be very careful about that. I watch plenty of TV (nothing educational, just mindless entertainment and politics), I don't read much, I don't do crosswords, I don't think too deeply, I don't play chess, and I spend a fair amount of time hitting my head against the wall...
I really have to keep my intellectual capacity low just to ensure I remain a viable partner for producing future Einsteins.[/COLOR]

Well, I guess we have to travel back thousands of years to the era of the ancient Greek philosophers who loved carving whatever random thoughts crossed their minds into stone. One of those famous bits was "know thyself."
In that sense, you’ve already experienced what it truly means to be a parent.
Why did you decide to have kids in the first place?
Why, after the first one, did you go ahead and have a second?
And why a third after that?
And honestly, why did you choose to actually *be* a father once they were born? You could have just packed up, headed down to South America, changed your name, started a vineyard, and nobody would ever have found you.
Why stay? Was it because you wanted to, or perhaps because that’s what society expected of you? Or maybe it was simply because you wanted to be there for them? Why did you want to be present? What exactly were you trying to provide for them? And, if I may ask, why did you feel the need to give them those things?

As for me, I’d actually like to have quite a few children—maybe ten or so—since the government offers such decent agricultural subsidies for raising livestock. Beyond that, I’m planning on finding a very intelligent wife, because I recall hearing something in biology class that when two highly intelligent parents have children, those children often end up being merely average. So, if someone like me—who is, let's face it, significantly below average in intelligence—has children with a brilliant woman, then our kids might actually turn out to be Einsteins. Though, I’m not entirely sure I'll find a woman smart enough to realize my potential for massive stupidity while also agreeing to produce a whole brood of hyper-intelligent children just to chase those government subsidies.
I suppose I'll just have to rely on luck rather than brains.
If all goes well, those little Einsteins will earn a fortune, and eventually, they'll probably hand it all back to their old man to spend on drinks and bad decisions. Which, I suppose, is only fair, given that I’m gifting them both life and high intellect.

The only thing that could really ruin my plan is if I suddenly gain some common sense.
I try to be very careful about that. I watch plenty of TV (nothing educational, just mindless entertainment and politics), I don't read much, I don't do crosswords, I don't think too deeply, I don't play chess, and I spend a fair amount of time hitting my head against the wall...
I really have to keep my intellectual capacity low just to ensure I remain a viable partner for producing future Einsteins.[/COLOR]
Don't tell people you have them. Just complain the whole time about how you don't have any free time. People who complain constantly usually find that nobody asks anything of them, just so they don't have to listen to the whining.[/COLOR]

swiftcobra15 RegularOP

305 messages
joined Dec 2002

#23 · Apr 19, 2007

To could be summed up by that old saying:
A man dreams, but...

the woman makes the call. 😁

William Gonzalez3 said:

How can you even think that? I’ve heard all sorts of things from you, but I’ve never heard you use that impersonal "it" before. Did you actually want kids? Why?
What first comes to my mind is that men want children because they want someone to be proud of—sort of a legacy thing.
Every dad dreams his son will play for LAFC and/or turn out to be incredibly smart. Then, they have to face the reality that kids are naturally stubborn—they don't exactly make things easy—and then they end up disappointed when their son decides to go to art school instead of pursuing sports. And so it goes... all in all, I suppose it feels to me like fathers want kids just to give themselves a second chance at life, trying to achieve everything they missed out on due to their own mistakes. Of course, they think they can point those mistakes out to the child. At least, they hope they can. But then what happens—as I mentioned—is that the kids become rebellious, and everything just falls apart. But by then, dads realize it too late. I guess that's just how Mother Nature designed it. After all, she is female.

Well, there you have it...

Don't tell people you have them. Just complain the whole time about how you don't have any free time. People who complain constantly usually find that nobody asks anything of them, just so they don't have to listen to the whining.
Personally, I believe most women want kids, while only a minority of men do.
But just to keep the peace at home, satisfy "public opinion" (grandparents, extended family, and neighbors), and stick to tradition, we "average out" to wanting children.
I mean, what else would we do with our lives?

I don't really align myself with that majority on this one.
Having children can't be my life's main focus, and certainly not my purpose

William Gonzalez3 said:

How can you even think that? I’ve heard all sorts of things from you, but I’ve never heard you use that impersonal "it" before. Did you actually want kids? Why?
What first comes to my mind is that men want children because they want someone to be proud of—sort of a legacy thing.
Every dad dreams his son will play for LAFC and/or turn out to be incredibly smart. Then, they have to face the reality that kids are naturally stubborn—they don't exactly make things easy—and then they end up disappointed when their son decides to go to art school instead of pursuing sports. And so it goes... all in all, I suppose it feels to me like fathers want kids just to give themselves a second chance at life, trying to achieve everything they missed out on due to their own mistakes. Of course, they think they can point those mistakes out to the child. At least, they hope they can. But then what happens—as I mentioned—is that the kids become rebellious, and everything just falls apart. But by then, dads realize it too late. I guess that's just how Mother Nature designed it. After all, she is female.

Well, there you have it...

Don't tell people you have them. Just complain the whole time about how you don't have any free time. People who complain constantly usually find that nobody asks anything of them, just so they don't have to listen to the whining.

I'm a Dalmatian, and I've always looked down on soccer.
That's why I'm actually glad my son took after me in that regard.
I honestly think it's a huge win for America, and especially for Cleveland,
that we didn't host the World Cup. We would have wasted a fortune on something trivial.

William Gonzalez3 said:

How can you even think that? I’ve heard all sorts of things from you, but I’ve never heard you use that impersonal "it" before. Did you actually want kids? Why?
What first comes to my mind is that men want children because they want someone to be proud of—sort of a legacy thing.
Every dad dreams his son will play for LAFC and/or turn out to be incredibly smart. Then, they have to face the reality that kids are naturally stubborn—they don't exactly make things easy—and then they end up disappointed when their son decides to go to art school instead of pursuing sports. And so it goes... all in all, I suppose it feels to me like fathers want kids just to give themselves a second chance at life, trying to achieve everything they missed out on due to their own mistakes. Of course, they think they can point those mistakes out to the child. At least, they hope they can. But then what happens—as I mentioned—is that the kids become rebellious, and everything just falls apart. But by then, dads realize it too late. I guess that's just how Mother Nature designed it. After all, she is female.

Well, there you have it...

Don't tell people you have them. Just complain the whole time about how you don't have any free time. People who complain constantly usually find that nobody asks anything of them, just so they don't have to listen to the whining.

I can't stand whining, and I hate lying even more: I either stay quiet or I tell the truth.

rustymaker5 Regular

352 messages
joined Mar 2008

#24 · Apr 19, 2007

swiftcobra15 said:Quentin Tarantino

I honestly don't buy into this whole idea of "natural instincts," and I certainly don't believe that men and women share the same motivations when it comes to parenthood.
I’d really like to ask everyone to please speak from their own lived experiences and personal perspectives, rather than relying on collective prejudices.

Personally, I think that "natural instinct"—or just put simply, the fact that the drive to propagate the species is hardwired into the DNA of every living thing—doesn't actually distinguish between the sexes...

The differences only really start appearing once you drop them into a social context. For instance, throughout history, men have often—and many still do—longed specifically for a son to carry on the family line (think about royal dynasties, or even modern American entrepreneurs wanting a successor for their business empire, or farmers wanting to ensure the land stays with the firstborn, etc.)... It seems like for men, fatherhood, especially having a male heir, served primarily as proof of their existence, a way to ensure something remains after they're gone. A need for validation, maybe?
For women, I don't think that kind of external validation is the primary driver. Beyond the biological impulse toward motherhood, they don't feel this pressing need to manufacture an "heir" to a legacy, because by simply bringing a child into the world, they are already creating that legacy... which allows them to focus on offspring through other motivations, like the desire to nurture, raise, and love.
That would be my "objective" take on the matter, anyway...

As for my own experience, I can honestly say I don't see that kind of distinction between myself and my husband regarding our child. And as cliché as it sounds, our baby was simply the ultimate expression of our love, and we just wanted to bring a being into the world that we could love and care for. I don't think we were thinking about anything else back then, except for this tiny little baby who was the fruit of our love, someone we could give ourselves to wholeheartedly, watching them develop their own personality and just celebrating life alongside them...

mistybison Regular

495 messages
joined Aug 2008

#25 · Apr 19, 2007

swiftcobra15 said:Quentin Tarantino

I honestly don't buy into this whole idea of "natural instincts," and I certainly don't believe that men and women share the same motivations when it comes to parenthood.
I’d really like to ask everyone to please speak from their own lived experiences and personal perspectives, rather than relying on collective prejudices.

I am not a man, so... personal I don't have any personal experience to share at this time. 🙂 To be fair, my "experience" on this subject is based entirely on what others have told me.

I agree with those views.

Why would a man choose to have children? Perhaps it is an opportunity to pass on the wisdom and experiences he has gathered throughout his life. In many ways, raising a child is a form of artistic expression. Parenthood serves as one of the most profound, creative ways a person can leave a lasting legacy in this world—and I am not just talking about DNA. Of course, this only applies if he truly wants to and feels ready for the responsibility. 🙂 This applies to women as well.

mistybison Regular

495 messages
joined Aug 2008

#26 · Apr 19, 2007

swiftcobra15 said:

[/B]

Personally, I believe most women want kids, while only a minority of men do.
But just to keep the peace at home, satisfy "public opinion" (grandparents, extended family, and neighbors), and stick to tradition, we "average out" to wanting children.
I mean, what else would we do with our lives?

[/B]

Personally, I believe most women want kids, while only a minority of men do.
But just to keep the peace at home, satisfy "public opinion" (grandparents, extended family, and neighbors), and stick to tradition, we "average out" to wanting children.
I mean, what else would we do with our lives?

[/B]

Personally, I believe most women want kids, while only a minority of men do.
But just to keep the peace at home, satisfy "public opinion" (grandparents, extended family, and neighbors), and stick to tradition, we "average out" to wanting children.
I mean, what else would we do with our lives?
In my view, most men and women desire children; I'd say only about 5% of people across both genders don't want them at all. 😛 😁

swiftcobra15 RegularOP

305 messages
joined Dec 2002

#27 · Apr 19, 2007

mistybison said:I am not a man, so... personal I don't have any personal experience to share at this time. 🙂 To be fair, my "experience" on this subject is based entirely on what others have told me.

I agree with those views.

Why would a man choose to have children? Perhaps it is an opportunity to pass on the wisdom and experiences he has gathered throughout his life. In many ways, raising a child is a form of artistic expression. Parenthood serves as one of the most profound, creative ways a person can leave a lasting legacy in this world—and I am not just talking about DNA. Of course, this only applies if he truly wants to and feels ready for the responsibility. 🙂 This applies to women as well.

😕

That’s why they end up giving them maybe five or six hours a week—some even more—simply because they don't have any time left.
We spend 40 (or even more) hours a week at the office.
I honestly wonder how many fathers actually dedicate 20 (or more) hours a week specifically to their kids.
And I mean literal, hands-on time, not just the usual "I'm doing this all for my children" excuse.

As James Redfield points out in his book:
A child needs
undivided attention from an adult at every single moment—that true 1:1 connection.

Maybe a mother might manage to give her child half of that time,
but I highly doubt you'll find a single father in a million who does.

mistybison Regular

495 messages
joined Aug 2008

#28 · Apr 19, 2007

swiftcobra15 said:😕

Maybe a mother might manage to give her child half of that time,
but I highly doubt you'll find a single father in a million who does.

I was just trying to find some noble motivation for why men might want children. 😬

The facts seem fairly obvious—for men, fatherhood serves as an affirmation of masculinity. It isn't about parenting itself, but rather the capacity to "produce a child." Once that happens, they provide care (to whatever extent) because of social conditioning and legal requirements. Of course, the bulk of childcare usually falls to the mother. On the other hand, simply having a child can give purpose to many otherwise aimless human activities and help navigate difficult moments and sacrifices. Much like what you mentioned ("I do this for my kids"). Then again, perhaps there are fathers who truly love their offspring and parent out of pure affection? Or is that just a myth? 🤔

swiftcobra15 RegularOP

305 messages
joined Dec 2002

#29 · Apr 19, 2007

mistybison said:

I was just trying to find some noble motivation for why men might want children. 😬

The facts seem fairly obvious—for men, fatherhood serves as an affirmation of masculinity. It isn't about parenting itself, but rather the capacity to "produce a child." Once that happens, they provide care (to whatever extent) because of social conditioning and legal requirements. Of course, the bulk of childcare usually falls to the mother. On the other hand, simply having a child can give purpose to many otherwise aimless human activities and help navigate difficult moments and sacrifices. Much like what you mentioned ("I do this for my kids"). Then again, perhaps there are fathers who truly love their offspring and parent out of pure affection? Or is that just a myth? 🤔
I was just trying to find some noble motivation for why men might want children. 😬

The facts seem fairly obvious—for men, fatherhood serves as an affirmation of masculinity. It isn't about parenting itself, but rather the capacity to "produce a child." Once that happens, they provide care (to whatever extent) because of social conditioning and legal requirements. Of course, the bulk of childcare usually falls to the mother. On the other hand, simply having a child can give purpose to many otherwise aimless human activities and help navigate difficult moments and sacrifices. Much like what you mentioned ("I do this for my kids"). Then again, perhaps there are fathers who truly love their offspring and parent out of pure affection? Or is that just a myth? 🤔
I was just trying to find some noble motivation for why men might want children. 😬

The facts seem fairly obvious—for men, fatherhood serves as an affirmation of masculinity. It isn't about parenting itself, but rather the capacity to "produce a child." Once that happens, they provide care (to whatever extent) because of social conditioning and legal requirements. Of course, the bulk of childcare usually falls to the mother. On the other hand, simply having a child can give purpose to many otherwise aimless human activities and help navigate difficult moments and sacrifices. Much like what you mentioned ("I do this for my kids"). Then again, perhaps there are fathers who truly love their offspring and parent out of pure affection? Or is that just a myth? 🤔

This might seem trivial to some, but I really want to emphasize this distinction:

biological fatherhood—the ability to sire a hundred children—is one thing,
but being a true father through upbringing is much harder.

If you believe men "love their offspring," do you think that love was the initial motivation to become a father,
or did they fall in love with the child after the fact? (It brings us right back to the same dilemma.)

mistybison Regular

495 messages
joined Aug 2008

#30 · Apr 19, 2007

swiftcobra15 said:

I was just trying to find some noble motivation for why men might want children. 😬

The facts seem fairly obvious—for men, fatherhood serves as an affirmation of masculinity. It isn't about parenting itself, but rather the capacity to "produce a child." Once that happens, they provide care (to whatever extent) because of social conditioning and legal requirements. Of course, the bulk of childcare usually falls to the mother. On the other hand, simply having a child can give purpose to many otherwise aimless human activities and help navigate difficult moments and sacrifices. Much like what you mentioned ("I do this for my kids"). Then again, perhaps there are fathers who truly love their offspring and parent out of pure affection? Or is that just a myth? 🤔
I was just trying to find some noble motivation for why men might want children. 😬

The facts seem fairly obvious—for men, fatherhood serves as an affirmation of masculinity. It isn't about parenting itself, but rather the capacity to "produce a child." Once that happens, they provide care (to whatever extent) because of social conditioning and legal requirements. Of course, the bulk of childcare usually falls to the mother. On the other hand, simply having a child can give purpose to many otherwise aimless human activities and help navigate difficult moments and sacrifices. Much like what you mentioned ("I do this for my kids"). Then again, perhaps there are fathers who truly love their offspring and parent out of pure affection? Or is that just a myth? 🤔

If you believe men "love their offspring," do you think that love was the initial motivation to become a father,
or did they fall in love with the child after the fact? (It brings us right back to the same dilemma.)

If you believe men "love their offspring," do you think that love was the initial motivation to become a father,
or did they fall in love with the child after the fact? (It brings us right back to the same dilemma.)
Most people never stop to ask themselves, "Why should I become a parent?" In our society, having children is often viewed as a natural, desirable, and "normal" milestone. People tend to accept it as an inevitable stage of life without much reflection, or they simply find themselves in that position by circumstance.

I view this forum as a space where we can explore and brainstorm reasons that might encourage someone contemplating this question to take the leap into parenthood. These posts are my own sincere attempts to contribute to that conversation.
😬

If fathers "love their children," do you think that love was the initial motivation for them to become parents,
or did they develop that love after the fact?

They fell in love with their children after the fact, just as women do, though perhaps in a different way. (For a perspective on how this looks from a woman's point of view, there are excellent posts by Velmex on the topic you linked in your first post).

swiftcobra15 RegularOP

305 messages
joined Dec 2002

#31 · Apr 20, 2007

Aside from a few honorable exceptions—just five of them, really—it seems like the men have completely abandoned this subforum,
or maybe they just find the topics here totally uninteresting or irrelevant. 😕 😕 😕

Nicole Castillo11 Member

21 messages
joined Aug 2006

#32 · Apr 21, 2007

Chris Peterson53 said:There are so many threads like this that they could all be condensed into one single question: to be a parent or not to be.

Those who judge others simply because they choose to be fathers—
I consider them completely unprepared for the realities of life, and frankly, selfishness is their defining trait.
If they hold these convictions, then by all means, they should go reject their own fathers—the very people who brought them into this world—
especially if that man was an irresponsible father who serves as their primary role model.

Calling parenthood "low" or "dirty" is nothing more than a hypocritical excuse—a convenient cover for pure selfishness and materialism. These are people incapable of sacrificing anything—anything at all—besides their own immediate comfort, just to give their lives some actual direction. And most often, their go-to justification is: "I can't afford to raise a child!"
But there is a certain poetic justice waiting for them: ending up alone in some lonely house,
where not even the neighbor's dog bothers to visit them during their lifetime or at the moment of their death—and that is precisely when the regret over not having children begins. And I'd bet 99% of them will feel it.
Regardless of what those children might have been like, the mere thought that they exist is the only comfort left.

Just imagine how much hypocrisy, egoism, and materialism exists within the clergy who renounced children to focus on their souls. And those atheists are even worse.

Nicole Castillo11 Member

21 messages
joined Aug 2006

#33 · Apr 21, 2007

swiftcobra15 said:I found the perspective shared by Jonathan Brooks8 to be quite thought-provoking,
even if it doesn't strictly align with biological facts, and I’m curious to see if anyone else shares that viewpoint.

A hiker gave an interesting answer (even if it's biologically imprecise),
and I'm curious if anyone else shares similar views.
Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?

swiftcobra15 RegularOP

305 messages
joined Dec 2002

#34 · Apr 25, 2007

Nicole Castillo11 said:A hiker gave an interesting answer (even if it's biologically imprecise),
and I'm curious if anyone else shares similar views.

Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?
Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?
Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?

Are you suggesting we're just ignorant about—or indifferent to—contraception?
Is there really a direct correlation between how often people have sex and how many children they end up having? 😕

Nicole Castillo11 said:A hiker gave an interesting answer (even if it's biologically imprecise),
and I'm curious if anyone else shares similar views.

Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?
Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?
Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?
😁

Sometimes (rarely) fun—but always exhausting. 🙂

rustymaker5 Regular

352 messages
joined Mar 2008

#35 · Apr 25, 2007

swiftcobra15 said:Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?

Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?

Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?
Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?
😁

Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?
😁
Man, if only your parents had seen things that way...🙄

William Gonzalez3 Regular

276 messages
joined May 2009

#36 · Apr 25, 2007

Rebecca Cox2 said:The phrase "having kids" does feel low and dirty because it implies—even if we don't realize it—that a child is just parental property. It’s barely an upgrade from saying "making a baby."

Raising a child is a better way to put it, though even that doesn't seem to capture the full reality, given how often people struggle to actually succeed at it.

As for me, my child is due in about a month. My goal is simply to keep them healthy and safe until they reach the age where they can truly interact with the world. After that, I hope to guide them toward becoming a contributing member of our family, giving them the foundation they need to grow into an independent, responsible adult.

Hopefully, my spouse and I can pull this off together...😉

Well, yeah—assuming you end up having more kids.
Only children usually just know how to take, not how to share, mostly because they never really get the chance to learn.
And where exactly are you even going to host a celebration for a child's birthday?

William Gonzalez3 Regular

276 messages
joined May 2009

#37 · Apr 25, 2007

swiftcobra15 said:

[/B]

Personally, I believe most women want kids, while only a minority of men do.
But just to keep the peace at home, satisfy "public opinion" (grandparents, extended family, and neighbors), and stick to tradition, we "average out" to wanting children.
I mean, what else would we do with our lives?

[/B]

Personally, I believe most women want kids, while only a minority of men do.
But just to keep the peace at home, satisfy "public opinion" (grandparents, extended family, and neighbors), and stick to tradition, we "average out" to wanting children.
I mean, what else would we do with our lives?

[/B]

Personally, I believe most women want kids, while only a minority of men do.
But just to keep the peace at home, satisfy "public opinion" (grandparents, extended family, and neighbors), and stick to tradition, we "average out" to wanting children.
I mean, what else would we do with our lives?
of it.
It seems that way—that men really don't have an inherent drive to be fathers. They probably didn't even before, though they needed the help for farm work.
The aristocracy, on the other hand, had fewer children because they didn't need extra hands in the fields—not for hauling wood through the woods or working the orchards and vineyards. In fact, it was actually better for them to have fewer heirs so the descendants wouldn't end up killing each other over the inheritance.

Fortunately, women have become much more self-centered, vain, and perhaps a bit more immature today (or maybe they were always this way, and social pressure was just stronger back then), so they don't want to ruin their figures with all those kids. Or maybe children just don't fit into a lifestyle dedicated to building careers, or they refuse to bring kids into the world if they can't afford the absolute best private schools—as if those schools make such a difference; I went to public school and I turned out fine—so they decide against it altogether. Or they might have one child, since it's easier to leave a woman with one kid rather than three (though she could manage three). So, we've only just now become truly complementary, mutually reinforcing genders. Today, we are being presented with the obvious reality that women don't actually want to be mothers either. As soon as they stopped being pushed into it, they stopped. And so, the birth rate plummeted. Which will, of course, stop once a real oil shortage hits and women's rights are rolled back because humanity will desperately need more labor again—but that's a problem for later. For now, let's just enjoy life without all the little ones.

swiftcobra15 said:

[/B]

Personally, I believe most women want kids, while only a minority of men do.
But just to keep the peace at home, satisfy "public opinion" (grandparents, extended family, and neighbors), and stick to tradition, we "average out" to wanting children.
I mean, what else would we do with our lives?

[/B]

Personally, I believe most women want kids, while only a minority of men do.
But just to keep the peace at home, satisfy "public opinion" (grandparents, extended family, and neighbors), and stick to tradition, we "average out" to wanting children.
I mean, what else would we do with our lives?

[/B]

Personally, I believe most women want kids, while only a minority of men do.
But just to keep the peace at home, satisfy "public opinion" (grandparents, extended family, and neighbors), and stick to tradition, we "average out" to wanting children.
I mean, what else would we do with our lives?
Despise? That's a pretty intense emotion toward something so harmless that barely touches you or affects your life in any way. Personally, soccer isn't exactly gripping for me either, so I just don't watch it. But I don't despise it, because contempt requires energy that could be spent more wisely on karate or working the field.

swiftcobra15 said:

[/B]

Personally, I believe most women want kids, while only a minority of men do.
But just to keep the peace at home, satisfy "public opinion" (grandparents, extended family, and neighbors), and stick to tradition, we "average out" to wanting children.
I mean, what else would we do with our lives?

[/B]

Personally, I believe most women want kids, while only a minority of men do.
But just to keep the peace at home, satisfy "public opinion" (grandparents, extended family, and neighbors), and stick to tradition, we "average out" to wanting children.
I mean, what else would we do with our lives?

[/B]

Personally, I believe most women want kids, while only a minority of men do.
But just to keep the peace at home, satisfy "public opinion" (grandparents, extended family, and neighbors), and stick to tradition, we "average out" to wanting children.
I mean, what else would we do with our lives?
Hatred? I think my previous point answers that question perfectly enough.

mistyfox812 Regular

295 messages
joined Mar 2004

#38 · Apr 25, 2007

swiftcobra15 said:Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?

Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?

Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?
Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?
😁

Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?
😁
Wait, hold up, I didn't catch that... are we talking about sex or fatherhood here? 🤔

rustymaker5 Regular

352 messages
joined Mar 2008

#39 · Apr 25, 2007

mistyfox812 said:Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?

😁
Wait, hold up, I didn't catch that... are we talking about sex or fatherhood here? 🤔
Wait, hold up, I didn't catch that... are we talking about sex or fatherhood here? 🤔
Wait, hold up, I didn't catch that... are we talking about sex or fatherhood here? 🤔
Sex is rarely that fun, and being a dad is always a massive grind! 🙄
Haha, well, it’s not exactly easy for him either... 😬

swiftcobra15 RegularOP

305 messages
joined Dec 2002

#40 · Apr 25, 2007

rustymaker5 said:Biologically speaking, men have hands. Even though science proves you can live without one hand—or even get by using just one—most people find they need both. It's like having wings just so we can fly. Then there are our hormones and sex drives that make most guys want to stick their junk in a woman... and sometimes children happen. Why God made us this way, who knows. Biologically, kids are often just a byproduct of an intense drive for sex. That doesn't mean the kid was actually wanted, or that the guy actually wants to "be a father."

Being a father presumably means wanting to raise a child and teaching them how to survive. Most guys don't feel that urge at the start; they just stumble into it through sex and then realize it's actually kind of fun. Or maybe they see a helpless puppy and suddenly feel the urge, let alone a tiny human they're responsible for. Not everyone feels this way, though. Plenty of guys just walk away and dodge child support entirely. Some want to be fathers and some don't—some bail because they can't handle the chaos of a woman's pregnancy. Some end up being fathers to 2% of their kids, others to 35%, or more. What it actually means to be a father depends on how each man perceives life and human needs. Could you expand on this and explain what being a father meant for you?

😁
Man, if only your parents had seen things that way...🙄
Man, if only your parents had seen things that way...🙄
Man, if only your parents had seen things that way...🙄

That all happened during the first major wave of national rebuilding—it was a truly patriotic move. 😁
If they had shared your mindset, who would be here on Reddit teaching you everything you know? 😕

To be or not to be... a father?

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