Nature vs. Nurture: Talent or Hard Work?

Adam Ross4 said:And, by the way, you can play an instrument without pitch, but singing?...

You can't even play an instrument without pitch... 🙄
I'd love to actually hear someone try to play without any sense of pitch... 😁

Sure, you can learn to sing without perfect pitch, though it's a much steeper climb than it is for those who have it...

As for modern music? You don't need talent or pitch for that. Just look at what's on the radio today—half these "singers" couldn't carry a tune in a bucket... 😁

And regarding the link between genius and pitch... it's well-documented that Mozart and Beethoven had perfect pitch. But Haydn, Stravinsky, Wagner, and others? They relied on highly trained relative pitch, which certainly didn't stop them from being legends... 😁

funky Daemon said:I don't need to hear it from someone who can't even stay in tune... 😁

Beethoven 😁

Gulpa said:Beethoven 😁

😬

Adam Ross4 brought up "that thing"... 😁
Does everyone here actually believe it exists? And that it can be ranked alongside raw, natural talent...

Or am I the only one convinced that "that thing" is just the byproduct of environmental factors after you're born... 😁

Did I mention he was still composing even after he went deaf? 😛

funky Daemon said:so ssnjof brought up "that certain something"... 😁
does everyone actually think that exists? Like, can you even compare it to raw, natural talent...

or am I just the only one here who thinks "that something" is just the result of outside influences after birth... 😁

That "something," or what we call a "knack" in English, is exactly what I consider to be talent.😁

Gulpa said:Did I mention he was still composing even after losing his hearing? 😛

Yeah... but he wasn't tone-deaf. 😁
He could hear the tones "in his head." It was natural, really—he knew exactly where they lived on the fretboard. 😛

He had perfect pitch. He didn't need an outside reference. 😛

funky Daemon said:he heard the tones "in his head" and obviously knew exactly where they were on the instrument... 😛

actually he just flopped down drunk, pressed his ear to the floor, and felt the vibrations 😛

haha 😁

Adam Ross4 said:When it comes to contemporary music, you don't even need an ear for it. Just look at what passes for music today—half of these so-called "singers" have absolutely no talent whatsoever... 😁

You even put the term "singer" in quotation marks yourself. So, what kind of results are we actually discussing here? Are we talking about genuine artistic achievement, or just who managed to land a spot on a reality TV show?
If we are strictly talking about talent and results, then, for heaven's sake, someone like Taylor Swift's imitators or those other mainstream pop caricatures can't be called singers...

I’m just messing with you a little... 😉

Actually, I’ll take this chance to say that half of the American pop music scene can't carry a tune in a bucket... 😁

So, get this... when they were filming Conan, Milius starts trying to explain all these deep, internal character motivations to Arnold Schwarzenegger, and Arnie’s just like, "Look, I don't get any of that. If you want me to look right, tell me 'look right!' If you want me staring at the floor, just say 'stare at the floor!'"
But honestly, who cares? Like, would Jack Nicholson have even worked as Conan? 🙄 Or maybe Al Pacino as The Terminator?

I mean, Arnold Schwarzenegger was just built for those parts. It was perfect.

It’s not really about asking "who's better," it's more about finding where you actually fit. Everyone has their own lane.

Agreed... 😁
But the question we're really asking here is whether Arnold Schwarzenegger could ever actually tap into that level of acting depth seen in Nicholson through sheer practice... 🙂

It’s not about claiming one is strictly better than the other... 😉

And while we're at it, what even defines talent? Is it just some innate wiring, or perhaps just a collection of various external influences...?

funky Daemon said:I’m with you on that... 😁
But what I’m really wondering here—and maybe this is just me overthinking things—is whether Arnold Schwarzenegger could actually ever tap into that raw acting depth Jack Nicholson has, if he just put in the work... 🙂

Well, you could look at it from the other side too. 🙂

Could Jack Nicholson ever develop that kind of physique—or even just the sheer physical discipline--required for serious muscle building if he actually gave weightlifting a shot (assuming he even liked it)? 😕

Exclamation point. Question mark.

normall said:It could work both ways 🙂

Could John Nicholson actually hit Arnie's physique or his "TALENT" 😕 for packing on muscle if he had trained (or wanted to train) lifting weights?

Exclamation point. Question mark.

Arnie used gear to get those muscles 😁 that isn't talent, it's just juicing

Gulpa said:Arni used PEDs just to get those muscles 😁 it isn't talent, it's just juicing

Even a musician uses performance enhancers... in the form of music... 😁

not quite the same 🙂

Adam Ross4 said:not quite the same 🙂

Go ahead then. Explain the difference... 😉

mistyfox812 said:...it’s more like, "what's my actual role here." Everyone just does their own thing.

😉

nobody and nothing said:It isn’t really about asking “who is better”—that's missing the point entirely—it’s more about figuring out “what is my actual role here.” Everyone has their own lane, I suppose.

This kind of deep diving... it isn't for everyone; you might just end up drowning if you aren't careful.😉