Dealing with the teenage years is a nightmare

Quincy:

I suppose I should begin by saying that there is a certain quiet elegance in how things unfold—sometimes quite unexpectedly—though one can never truly be certain of the outcome until the final moment arrives. It is much like watching a slow-moving storm roll across the Midwest; you see the clouds gathering, you feel the pressure drop, yet there remains this persistent, almost stubborn sense of anticipation. I was thinking earlier about some of the points raised by Charles Murphy6—who, if I may say so, possesses a rather singular way of viewing these matters—and it struck me that we often overlook the most fundamental truths in our haste to reach a conclusion. We rush toward the finish line without considering the texture of the track itself. It is an interesting oversight, really—an oversight that many seem content to make, though I find myself unable to join in that particular brand of complacency. There is a dignity in patience, even when that patience feels somewhat heavy or burdensome. Charles Murphy6 says: Dear friend...

How sweet.
Linda Morris61 said:

The foundation of upbringing—if we are being truly honest about it—begins much earlier than most people care to admit. It isn’t some distant milestone you reach in grade school; rather, it is a process that starts almost from the moment a child enters the world. One could argue that the earliest influences—those quiet, formative years at home—set the entire trajectory for the adult they will eventually become. It is a profound responsibility, really—one that requires a level of intentionality that I find many modern parents seem to overlook in the rush of daily life.

No one is claiming otherwise.
Quincy:

By then, it will already be too late—and I mean truly, irrevocably too late.

It is certainly not too late at that stage of life—not by any stretch of the imagination. While there is an argument to be made that starting early is ideal—it’s true, of course—one must realize that even a twelve-year-old can be guided toward proper upbringing. It isn't about the specific number on the calendar, really; it is about the intent behind the guidance.
Quincy:

At that point—if things truly reach such a level of instability—it seems the only viable path forward is the implementation of strictly enforced measures.

It simply requires a great deal of dialogue—extensive discussions and thorough explanations—to truly get through to people.
Linda Morris61 said:

It’s simply because she was never properly raised—she lacks any real sense of boundaries.

So, how does that all actually shake out in the end? To penalize—or rather, to impose a consequence upon—is an action that requires a certain level of gravity, wouldn't you agree? It isn't merely about the act itself, but the underlying necessity for accountability within our social structures here in America. One must approach the concept of punishment with a deliberate sense of justice—a very serious matter, truly—to ensure that the integrity of the system remains intact. What’s your take on the matter?
Quincy:

And naturally—of course—I will discipline my child if they pull some kind of nonsense—though I prefer to think of it as correcting a lapse in judgment—if they truly mess things up.

Punishment. Fine. No one is actually stopping you from doing that—if that’s really what you want to do.
Quincy:

Or should we just sit here and wait for him to go ahead and bash his head against a wall—at which point we’ll all be left picking up the pieces—before anyone actually does anything?🙂

You can certainly do that—if you really want to.
I must say, I can certainly relate—I was quite the little troublemaker myself when I was growing up. Truly, I committed all sorts of mischief back then. It seems most of us were a bit rebellious during those formative years—or perhaps "naughty" is the more appropriate term. One could call it that, at least.
Firehouse was truly my absolute best friend.
My parents used to yell about how dangerous everything was—though, looking back, I truly couldn’t see any danger at all—they were just throwing around these words and sentences that made absolutely no sense to me at that age. Just constant lecturing. It felt like they were using restrictions as some sort of punishment; one day I wouldn't be allowed to hang out with my friends on the block, the next I’d be banned from practicing my instrument. Or, quite frequently, I would be forced to sit in my bedroom on my bed for who knows how long. And occasionally—it happened—there would even be a hit, just so I would finally "learn my lesson."

And yes—I have finally come to my senses.
Do you have any idea how long that actually takes? It’s a full seven days—a complete week, to be precise.
And so it begins once again—Firehouse. It’s setting everything ablaze. It’s quite funny—really, if you stop to consider the sheer absurdity of it all—how certain things just strike a chord. And what exactly is within my power to change? Whether it’s inside the house, somewhere near the property, out in the yard, or even just down the street—it doesn't matter. I don't make a distinction between them. It is all quite frankly maddening.
And my parents? They didn't have the slightest clue what I was actually up to—not even a hint. They were under this persistent, rather misguided impression that their strict parenting methods had somehow "corrected" my behavior and made me more sensible.

It wasn't until some time had passed that they finally figured it out—and my father actually sat me down for a long talk about it. We spoke at length. He was trying to explain exactly why she is such a dangerous influence, illustrating what a firehouse can truly do when things spiral out of control. He even went as far as showing me footage on the television of a house fire—the kind of disaster that could just as easily strike our own apartment building here in the States. He used the literal power of a firehouse as a physical demonstration of how destructive things can get, making it very clear why her presence poses such a genuine threat to my well-being.
And that was more or less when it all came to an end—whether you call it karma or just a personal decision, I simply stopped.

Of course, that is merely my own experience. There are thousands upon thousands of other cases out there—all varying in nature—that might very well contradict my own perspective.

To answer that—no, I don’t sit her down for lectures. Honestly, who would actually sit through one? I certainly wouldn't.
Instead, I just use real-life examples to show her when something isn't right, and we wrap it up in five minutes flat.
And no, I didn't immediately call her out on it.
I let us both catch our breath first, and then we had our talk.
God, if people actually knew her, they'd probably just say she does whatever I want because, frankly, I usually have a "perfect child" on my hands—one that's incredibly easy to raise. I've mentioned before that we've never had any major blowouts; there have only been a few times where I've had to step in and correct her.
But this whole situation feels like a massive shift for me.
Like when she pulls something like this🙄.
🤣
I'm just not used to it.
I tell her, "Oh, honey, we have such a high ceiling in this house that your ego might just hit it."😁
She doesn't pull that stunt during serious talks, but rather when I ask her to do something and she's just being particularly stubborn...
Disobedience? Hmm... I haven't quite figured out how to define that yet because we haven't reached that stage, and honestly, I don't even know if we ever will.
The truth is that foundations are built when they are little, and I still firmly believe that I've laid down some solid ground.
Damica still respects me. I can see it, and I can hear it. Thank God for that. However, I am starting to see this other side of her growing up, where she acts incredibly arrogant toward others—the kind of behavior that usually stems from being hurt herself in the past—and I'm trying to work through that with her.
She recently tried a little tactic with her stepfather, but since he isn't her biological father, she didn't take it out on him directly; she directed it at me after he asked her to do something.
We had a very serious conversation about that, because let's be real: even though he isn't her dad, he gives her everything he has, and she knows it full well—but she's testing the boundaries, testing the terrain, thinking if she pushes just enough, she might get away with it.
On top of all that, the kid is an absolute psychological mastermind, truly. She'll pull some random situation out of thin air where I once gave her advice, and then throw it back in my face the moment I start getting carried away... at that point, all I can do is hide my face or cover my ears. :-))

Linda Morris61 said:Quincy:

I suppose I should begin by saying that there is a certain quiet elegance in how things unfold—sometimes quite unexpectedly—though one can never truly be certain of the outcome until the final moment arrives. It is much like watching a slow-moving storm roll across the Midwest; you see the clouds gathering, you feel the pressure drop, yet there remains this persistent, almost stubborn sense of anticipation. I was thinking earlier about some of the points raised by Charles Murphy6—who, if I may say so, possesses a rather singular way of viewing these matters—and it struck me that we often overlook the most fundamental truths in our haste to reach a conclusion. We rush toward the finish line without considering the texture of the track itself. It is an interesting oversight, really—an oversight that many seem content to make, though I find myself unable to join in that particular brand of complacency. There is a dignity in patience, even when that patience feels somewhat heavy or burdensome. Charles Murphy6 says: Dear friend...

How sweet.
Linda Morris61 said:

The foundation of upbringing—if we are being truly honest about it—begins much earlier than most people care to admit. It isn’t some distant milestone you reach in grade school; rather, it is a process that starts almost from the moment a child enters the world. One could argue that the earliest influences—those quiet, formative years at home—set the entire trajectory for the adult they will eventually become. It is a profound responsibility, really—one that requires a level of intentionality that I find many modern parents seem to overlook in the rush of daily life.

No one is claiming otherwise.
Quincy:

By then, it will already be too late—and I mean truly, irrevocably too late.

It is certainly not too late at that stage of life—not by any stretch of the imagination. While there is an argument to be made that starting early is ideal—it’s true, of course—one must realize that even a twelve-year-old can be guided toward proper upbringing. It isn't about the specific number on the calendar, really; it is about the intent behind the guidance.
Quincy:

At that point—if things truly reach such a level of instability—it seems the only viable path forward is the implementation of strictly enforced measures.

It simply requires a great deal of dialogue—extensive discussions and thorough explanations—to truly get through to people.
Linda Morris61 said:

It’s simply because she was never properly raised—she lacks any real sense of boundaries.

So, how does that all actually shake out in the end? To penalize—or rather, to impose a consequence upon—is an action that requires a certain level of gravity, wouldn't you agree? It isn't merely about the act itself, but the underlying necessity for accountability within our social structures here in America. One must approach the concept of punishment with a deliberate sense of justice—a very serious matter, truly—to ensure that the integrity of the system remains intact. What’s your take on the matter?
Quincy:

And naturally—of course—I will discipline my child if they pull some kind of nonsense—though I prefer to think of it as correcting a lapse in judgment—if they truly mess things up.

Punishment. Fine. No one is actually stopping you from doing that—if that’s really what you want to do.
Quincy:

Or should we just sit here and wait for him to go ahead and bash his head against a wall—at which point we’ll all be left picking up the pieces—before anyone actually does anything?🙂

You can certainly do that—if you really want to.
I must say, I can certainly relate—I was quite the little troublemaker myself when I was growing up. Truly, I committed all sorts of mischief back then. It seems most of us were a bit rebellious during those formative years—or perhaps "naughty" is the more appropriate term. One could call it that, at least.
Firehouse was truly my absolute best friend.
My parents used to yell about how dangerous everything was—though, looking back, I truly couldn’t see any danger at all—they were just throwing around these words and sentences that made absolutely no sense to me at that age. Just constant lecturing. It felt like they were using restrictions as some sort of punishment; one day I wouldn't be allowed to hang out with my friends on the block, the next I’d be banned from practicing my instrument. Or, quite frequently, I would be forced to sit in my bedroom on my bed for who knows how long. And occasionally—it happened—there would even be a hit, just so I would finally "learn my lesson."

And yes—I have finally come to my senses.
Do you have any idea how long that actually takes? It’s a full seven days—a complete week, to be precise.
And so it begins once again—Firehouse. It’s setting everything ablaze. It’s quite funny—really, if you stop to consider the sheer absurdity of it all—how certain things just strike a chord. And what exactly is within my power to change? Whether it’s inside the house, somewhere near the property, out in the yard, or even just down the street—it doesn't matter. I don't make a distinction between them. It is all quite frankly maddening.
And my parents? They didn't have the slightest clue what I was actually up to—not even a hint. They were under this persistent, rather misguided impression that their strict parenting methods had somehow "corrected" my behavior and made me more sensible.

It wasn't until some time had passed that they finally figured it out—and my father actually sat me down for a long talk about it. We spoke at length. He was trying to explain exactly why she is such a dangerous influence, illustrating what a firehouse can truly do when things spiral out of control. He even went as far as showing me footage on the television of a house fire—the kind of disaster that could just as easily strike our own apartment building here in the States. He used the literal power of a firehouse as a physical demonstration of how destructive things can get, making it very clear why her presence poses such a genuine threat to my well-being.
And that was more or less when it all came to an end—whether you call it karma or just a personal decision, I simply stopped.

Of course, that is merely my own experience. There are thousands upon thousands of other cases out there—all varying in nature—that might very well contradict my own perspective.

So, back when you were around 12, you honestly didn't realize the dangers of fire or that a blaze could hit your own apartment?
Did nobody ever sit you down and explain that stuff?
Well, whatever works... glad it worked and you're still here today. 😉

Don't get me wrong—I am all for talking things out. Really, I am. But there’s a limit. If I spend months or even years trying to reason with someone who just refuses to listen and keeps pushing their own agenda, then that’s not a conversation anymore—it’s just straight-up provocation and disrespect. And honestly? There are ways to handle that.
Look, it’s like people forget who’s actually in charge here. It’s pretty wild to me that some folks think discipline and setting firm boundaries aren't necessary anymore.
We need manners. We need basic decency.
If having a little bit of fear regarding consequences is what stops—say—a teenager from hopping on some random guy's motorcycle without a helmet, then I say go for it. I'm all for it.

Jesse Fox5 said:Don't get me wrong—I am all for talking things out. Really, I am. But there’s a limit. If I spend months or even years trying to reason with someone who just refuses to listen and keeps pushing their own agenda, then that’s not a conversation anymore—it’s just straight-up provocation and disrespect. And honestly? There are ways to handle that.
Look, it’s like people forget who’s actually in charge here. It’s pretty wild to me that some folks think discipline and setting firm boundaries aren't necessary anymore.
We need manners. We need basic decency.
If having a little bit of fear regarding consequences is what stops—say—a teenager from hopping on some random guy's motorcycle without a helmet, then I say go for it. I'm all for it.

The fear of a damn fine is just going to motivate her to hide the fact she was riding from her parents, not to stop her from riding in the first place.

The fear of a damn fine isn't going to stop some drunk teenager from calling her parents for a ride; instead, she’ll just hop into a car with a friend who is equally wasted.

Ultimately, the fear of a damn fine sends the message that "it's bad to get caught doing this," rather than "doing this is inherently bad."

Nicholas King said:The fear of a damn fine is just going to motivate her to hide the fact she was riding from her parents, not to stop her from riding in the first place.

The fear of a damn fine isn't going to stop some drunk teenager from calling her parents for a ride; instead, she’ll just hop into a car with a friend who is equally wasted.

Ultimately, the fear of a damn fine sends the message that "it's bad to get caught doing this," rather than "doing this is inherently bad."

I seriously love you, you always crack me up. But hey, actually read what I'm saying here—I already said I was down to chat.
Your kids are lucky if you have them—they can basically do whatever they want, right?

I won't sit here and lecture anyone on my own parenting choices, but I can certainly comment from the sidelines when I observe other parents dealing with kids around the same age as my little girl.
Not only is physical punishment completely ineffective, but it actually breeds this deep-seated defiance in children; they end up acting like stubborn mules who are just conditioned to take a beating, which is honestly terrifying to witness.
It’s even worse when I see parents getting into these "deeply philosophical" arguments with their toddlers, only for the whole thing to spiral into a screaming match where the kid is wailing at the top of their lungs while the parent just yells, "Get to your room!"—it truly makes my stomach turn.
But then again, the foundation was never laid correctly to begin with, and as time goes on, the situation just keeps deteriorating.
It is a total disaster, and I find myself constantly on edge in an environment like that, just waiting for someone to snap and lash out; it’s a complete catastrophe.
And unfortunately, there are far too many instances of this happening, or at least from what I've seen in my own circles.
When the older folks lose their minds, they sometimes turn to me and say, "Hey Charles Murphy6, give us some sage advice—your little one seems fine," yet they absolutely refuse to listen to a single word I say. Not one word.
My husband just gets a kick out of it whenever he sees me wasting my breath on people who clearly aren't interested in changing.

they only hear what they want to hear, man 🙂

Jesse Fox5 said:I mean, seriously. Kids these days are just straight-up disrespectful... they have zero regard for anyone, especially older people, and they just don't listen. And you guys aren't doing anything about it either. It’s like, everyone thinks it's just some "phase," but then this behavior just keeps happening and happening. Like, where are the consequences? There have to be boundaries... I mean, what are we even doing here? How can you expect any kind of respect if there isn't any discipline or basic rules for how to act in public?
Look, if a kid comes home late once after hanging out with friends—fine, life happens. But if they do it ten times in a row? Yeah, no. They should be grounded, period.
Honestly, I really don't get how some people here are claiming they haven't achieved anything by setting limits... if you can't set boundaries, you basically have zero authority.
What's even the point of being a parent if you just let them run wild and do whatever they want? If that's the case, just start your own little gated community and let them go crazy there.

Where exactly are you seeing that nobody reacts to bad behavior?
Who is saying that there aren't any rules in place?
Who isn't teaching proper manners?😕

Who is claiming that children are just being left to run wild and do whatever they please?
And what was your actual point in making this post?
🤔

Look, let’s be real for a second... I seriously doubt most of you actually live out what you're preaching here. At least I’m being honest about it.
I went through puberty too, and it never crossed my mind to slam doors, scream at my mom, or throw a total tantrum. These days, though, "puberty" seems like the ultimate get-out-of-jail-free card for just being plain rude. It’s like that whole "it's just ADHD" thing—I mean, seriously. Look, it’s totally normal for teenagers to mess up and do stupid stuff that older folks won't like. But when parents start saying, "She’s constantly screaming," or "She just won't listen to anything," then things were already off track from the jump. First, they excuse the bad behavior because the kid is little. Then they excuse it because they're a teen. You can go through those stages without turning into a nightmare.
For example: say a parent and a kid agree that computer time ends at 11 PM. The kid shuts it down, heads to bed, but then sneaks back on at midnight and stares at a screen until 5 AM. They get caught, you have a talk, and you reach another agreement. Then the kid does the exact same thing again. Well, don't screw with me. Just unplug the damn cord—and hey, if you want to lose access to your laptop for two weeks for breaking your word, that's on you. Those are consequences. And they actually work. Or am I suddenly committing child abuse??!!

Jesse Fox5 said:I seriously love you, you always crack me up. But hey, actually read what I'm saying here—I already said I was down to chat.
Your kids are lucky if you have them—they can basically do whatever they want, right?

Honestly, this is the level of discourse we're dealing with here—where I'm apparently expected to snap back with something like, "Oh, poor little children of yours, I bet they aren't allowed to do anything at all, right?"

I don't think you'd consider me quite that dim-witted as to actually type something like that out, would you?
Quincy Adams:

I adore you...

What can I say? You'll just have to wait in line... :skroman:

Nicholas King said:Honestly, this is the level of discourse we're dealing with here—where I'm apparently expected to snap back with something like, "Oh, poor little children of yours, I bet they aren't allowed to do anything at all, right?"

I don't think you'd consider me quite that dim-witted as to actually type something like that out, would you?
Quincy Adams:

I adore you...

What can I say? You'll just have to wait in line... :skroman:

Great. Just great.
So here's a question for you. My cousin has a 9-year-old daughter. She never disciplines her because... well, she doesn't want to "stifle her personality."☕
And I actually got a front-row seat to how that kid reacts when she's told "no" for perfectly valid reasons—like when she couldn't go horseback riding when she wanted to. We were all sitting at the dinner table and this little girl looks her mom straight in the eye and says, "I'd love to just take a dump on your head and in your mouth right now."
Talk about an awkward moment for everyone involved. And of course, the kid didn't face a single consequence for it.
Is that what we're calling parenting now? It's honestly pathetic.
So, please, oh wise one, I'm dying to hear your "expert" opinion on this.

Jesse Fox5 said:Great. Just great.
So here's a question for you. My cousin has a 9-year-old daughter. She never disciplines her because... well, she doesn't want to "stifle her personality."☕
And I actually got a front-row seat to how that kid reacts when she's told "no" for perfectly valid reasons—like when she couldn't go horseback riding when she wanted to. We were all sitting at the dinner table and this little girl looks her mom straight in the eye and says, "I'd love to just take a dump on your head and in your mouth right now."
Talk about an awkward moment for everyone involved. And of course, the kid didn't face a single consequence for it.
Is that what we're calling parenting now? It's honestly pathetic.
So, please, oh wise one, I'm dying to hear your "expert" opinion on this.

You’re asking me this question about nine years too late.

It's roughly the same as dragging me to the middle of a massive forest fire that's been raging for days and then saying, "so, now tell me how to put this out".

Wait, how does that even work? That’s basically just pre-puberty—it feels like you don't actually have an answer for this...
If it were my kid, I’d probably just enroll her in some intensive behavioral bootcamp or summer camp style program, and honestly, she’d be a totally different person in three or four months.

Rachel Jones8 said:So, back when you were around 12, you honestly didn't realize the dangers of fire or that a blaze could hit your own apartment?
Did nobody ever sit you down and explain that stuff?
Well, whatever works... glad it worked and you're still here today. 😉

Hmm.
To be perfectly clear—though I don't recall stating specifically that we were discussing the age of 12—it's a bit more nuanced than that. 🙂

Furthermore, regarding the matter of explanations—it was quite difficult for anyone to convey just how perilous the situation was when I hadn't experienced any actual harm myself. I haven't been burned. In fact, there was this one candle—I remember the wax dripping onto my hands, quite literally—and I would pass my fingers through the flame; it didn't hurt, it felt rather amusing, actually.
I simply failed to see the logic in how a single candle could escalate into a full-scale house fire—what was the catch, exactly?
And besides that—later on, if I may call myself "lucky"—I even kept some water nearby just in case. It was criminal negligence, I suppose, I know.

Moreover, explanations for anything—including fire—that boiled down to "Because it's dangerous," "Because I said so," or "Because you aren't allowed to," were generally insufficient for me as a child.
I wouldn't go so far as to say it was because I was "different," or that I struggled to grasp obvious concepts, or that I was simply being foolish. No.
Rather, I frequently questioned my parents whenever they told me something was forbidden—asking "But why?"—only to receive the exact type of circular reasoning I have already mentioned.

Why things were that way, I cannot say—nor can I truly account for what was going on in my head at the time.

Jesse Fox5 said:Great. Just great.
So here's a question for you. My cousin has a 9-year-old daughter. She never disciplines her because... well, she doesn't want to "stifle her personality."☕
And I actually got a front-row seat to how that kid reacts when she's told "no" for perfectly valid reasons—like when she couldn't go horseback riding when she wanted to. We were all sitting at the dinner table and this little girl looks her mom straight in the eye and says, "I'd love to just take a dump on your head and in your mouth right now."
Talk about an awkward moment for everyone involved. And of course, the kid didn't face a single consequence for it.
Is that what we're calling parenting now? It's honestly pathetic.
So, please, oh wise one, I'm dying to hear your "expert" opinion on this.

In my opinion, she actually *is* stifling her personality by not letting her go riding whenever she wants.🤣🤣🤣

If you look closely at your example, the mother actually did set a boundary. She gave the child a limit, showing her that she can't just have everything she wants all the time.
The fact that the child couldn't get her way proves that boundaries are being set. 😳

The child reacting with anger to being told "no" is actually pretty normal and expected. However, the fact that she expressed that anger with a sentence so vile that it turned your stomach tells me that this kind of language is likely common in her environment. To her, this is just how people talk.
It sounds like she simply hasn't learned any other way to communicate.
And honestly, you aren't going to fix that kind of communication through punishment. You fix it by modeling better behavior and teaching her socially acceptable ways to express frustration and disappointment. My gut feeling is that a 9-year-old hasn't seen many examples of that at home.
At the end of the day, I'm not even sure what kind of punishment would actually help in a situation like this.

What I shared earlier is honestly just the tip of the iceberg. The whole issue is that she keeps claiming she’s raising her kid to be "independent" and whatever—blah, blah, blah. But the kid is a total disaster... she'll beg for lunch and then won't touch a single bite (and trust me, food waste drives me absolutely insane), plus there were five bags of chips and three chocolate bars just sitting out... she's just straight-up disrespectful to her mom and everyone else around her. She insists she's "communicating" with her, but honestly? Those talks achieve nothing. Lord help us. When I look back at my own daughter when she was nine... it's night and day.
Look, I can be pretty tough sometimes—I don't mess around when it comes to certain things. Not even a little bit. And because of that, you can actually show up somewhere with your kid without worrying that you're going to embarrass yourself.
My daughter is "independent" too and definitely has her own personality, but she isn't some spoiled, rude little monster.

And yeah... those excuses for why they didn't head out to horseback riding right away were basically because her cousin needed to run to Target first and take a quick shower or something.
So, her mom just said, "Hey sweetie, we'll go in about an hour. Sound good?" And the kid practically lost her mind on her mother.

Jesse Fox5 said:Great. Just great.
So here's a question for you. My cousin has a 9-year-old daughter. She never disciplines her because... well, she doesn't want to "stifle her personality."☕
And I actually got a front-row seat to how that kid reacts when she's told "no" for perfectly valid reasons—like when she couldn't go horseback riding when she wanted to. We were all sitting at the dinner table and this little girl looks her mom straight in the eye and says, "I'd love to just take a dump on your head and in your mouth right now."
Talk about an awkward moment for everyone involved. And of course, the kid didn't face a single consequence for it.
Is that what we're calling parenting now? It's honestly pathetic.
So, please, oh wise one, I'm dying to hear your "expert" opinion on this.

Look, if I had said something like that to my mother back in the day, I would have received at least one solid slap right across the face—it was the bare minimum.
Even just telling them to "shut up" used to cause a moment of hesitation—they’d really think twice about it. I lived on that razor-thin edge myself, though I always made sure to apologize immediately.
Well, damn—I suppose it's just the result of my lackluster upbringing. 🤷

Susan James said:In my opinion, she actually *is* stifling her personality by not letting her go riding whenever she wants.🤣🤣🤣

If you look closely at your example, the mother actually did set a boundary. She gave the child a limit, showing her that she can't just have everything she wants all the time.
The fact that the child couldn't get her way proves that boundaries are being set. 😳

The child reacting with anger to being told "no" is actually pretty normal and expected. However, the fact that she expressed that anger with a sentence so vile that it turned your stomach tells me that this kind of language is likely common in her environment. To her, this is just how people talk.
It sounds like she simply hasn't learned any other way to communicate.
And honestly, you aren't going to fix that kind of communication through punishment. You fix it by modeling better behavior and teaching her socially acceptable ways to express frustration and disappointment. My gut feeling is that a 9-year-old hasn't seen many examples of that at home.
At the end of the day, I'm not even sure what kind of punishment would actually help in a situation like this.

But what if she only heard that expression once? Would that make it justifiable then?
And another thing—do you truly not find an expression like that to be both bad and shameful?

Linda Morris61 said:Look, if I had said something like that to my mother back in the day, I would have received at least one solid slap right across the face—it was the bare minimum.
Even just telling them to "shut up" used to cause a moment of hesitation—they’d really think twice about it. I lived on that razor-thin edge myself, though I always made sure to apologize immediately.
Well, damn—I suppose it's just the result of my lackluster upbringing. 🤷

But what if she only heard that expression once? Would that make it justifiable then?
And another thing—do you truly not find an expression like that to be both bad and shameful?

Well, I never actually said it was justifiable. 😕

It’s completely valid for a child to feel angry or frustrated when they can't have something they want—that’s just a feeling, and they have every right to feel it.
But the way she chose to express that feeling isn't okay.

What I was trying to get at is that I don't believe punishment—especially something like a slap—would actually help her learn how to handle her anger properly.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if she heard the expression once or a thousand times; what matters is that she needs to learn how to express herself without hurting anyone else.
And that is a skill that has to be taught.

I've tried to explain this on several other threads (mostly ones focused on little ones) that kids really need role models. They need guidance on how to behave and support in learning how to channel their emotions appropriately. Just using punishments or sanctions doesn't teach them what *to* do; it only teaches them what *not* to do.
They need examples to follow and timely corrections on what's acceptable behavior versus what isn't.
They also need to hear how their actions make other people feel...

Susan James said:Well, I never actually said it was justifiable. 😕

It’s completely valid for a child to feel angry or frustrated when they can't have something they want—that’s just a feeling, and they have every right to feel it.
But the way she chose to express that feeling isn't okay.

What I was trying to get at is that I don't believe punishment—especially something like a slap—would actually help her learn how to handle her anger properly.
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if she heard the expression once or a thousand times; what matters is that she needs to learn how to express herself without hurting anyone else.
And that is a skill that has to be taught.

I've tried to explain this on several other threads (mostly ones focused on little ones) that kids really need role models. They need guidance on how to behave and support in learning how to channel their emotions appropriately. Just using punishments or sanctions doesn't teach them what *to* do; it only teaches them what *not* to do.
They need examples to follow and timely corrections on what's acceptable behavior versus what isn't.
They also need to hear how their actions make other people feel...

I didn't say you wrote that at any point—though, looking back, my sentence structure might seem a bit muddled right now 😁.

What I was actually trying to get at is my belief that punishment—especially physical discipline—wouldn't really help her learn how to express that anger constructively.

Oh, I didn't suggest that either. I was simply reflecting on my own childhood—or rather, what my upbringing would have been like—because the example that little girl gave her mother is nothing like what I experienced with my own parents. And that is precisely why I noted it—it’s clearly a sign of poor parenting.

As for the rest of the post—I am in total agreement. 🙂