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Would young people still want to move abroad today?

Started by Ronald Castillo5 · · 👁 13 views · 122 replies

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Participants Ronald Castillo5Sandra Williams70goldengull3Richard KellyCarl CoxNicole Morales3wiredsailor7Noah Young16Melissa Cruz2casualtrucker17Gary Cox72William Lewis10quietmason58hiddencrane18Benjamin Ramos95Jerry Moore2mistypanther34Amanda Torres5Sophia Brown78Sean Grant85Terry Cox81casualharbor17Aaron Kern10swiftscout8 …
Ronald Castillo5 Ronald Castillo5 Active MemberOP
60 messages
joined Dec 2005
#81 ·
Ronald Castillo5 said:I never said I wasn't willing to help.
I'm just waiting for someone to finally meet us halfway and make things easier...
Look, you have to look out for yourself and your family first. The government is just a mechanism, and the best way to help it is by helping yourself!

And there we go...

I see people posting about how we all need to step up for the country. It’s a noble goal, sure... but I'm not convinced it's the smartest move.

Here is why.

Working solely for the good of the state is a hallmark of socialism, not capitalism.

Personally, capitalism isn't my favorite thing either... I'd much prefer it if people were conscious enough to live by the principles of Participatory economics.

But what can I do? The people in my home country and the country where I live chose capitalism as our economic system.

Even though I lean more toward socialist ideas, capitalism is my reality. So, it makes sense to live by its rules.

I think people in America should follow that same logic. We need to understand the mechanics of the system we actually live in—capitalism—and act accordingly.

One of the core tenets of capitalism is looking out for number one.

Those who still think they owe everything to the state need to wake up. Socialism left this part of the world about fifteen years ago. It's gone...

There is no such thing as a capitalist nation where the government hands things out freely. People take care of themselves first, and only then does the state have anything to gain from them.

It's sad, but it's the truth... the only reality we have is... capitalism.
Gary Cox72 Gary Cox72 Active Member
54 messages
joined Jan 2005
#82 ·
Ronald Castillo5 said:Well, here we are...

I’ve been reading people talk about how they "need" to help the state and all that—and look, I admit, it's a noble sentiment—but I honestly wonder if that mindset is actually very smart.

Here is why.

Working for the sake of the state is a hallmark of socialism, not capitalism.

Personally, capitalism is my least favorite system... I’d much prefer it if the public consciousness were at a level where we could actually live by the principles of Participatory economics.

But what can I do when the people of my own country—the country where I live—have chosen capitalism as their economic framework?

And even though I lean more toward socialist ideals, capitalism is my only reality; therefore, it’s better to live according to its rules.

I fear Americans should follow suit. We need to grasp the characteristics and principles of the system we actually inhabit—capitalism—as quickly as possible and act accordingly.

One of the core tenets of capitalism is simple: think for yourself first.

Those who still believe they owe everything to the state should probably wake up and realize that socialism left our shores about fifteen years ago. It’s gone... it isn't coming back.

There is no such thing as a capitalist nation where the state hands things out. People take care of themselves first, and only then does the state have anything to gain from them.

This captures the relationship between socialism and capitalism quite well.

That said, you have to admit that even in the West, the working and middle classes—those mostly employed by others—constantly expect the government to step in and provide. In other words, they are dependent on the economy of the country they live in. The average person lacks the maneuverability or the habit of acting like a true capitalist, so their quality of life remains tied to the shifts in their national economy.

That’s why we frequently see strikes today, even in countries with long-standing, stable economies. In this era of increasing globalization, we're seeing a slight economic decline in highly developed nations within the European Union. For instance, it’s been quite visible in Germany and Italy lately. Heavy industry and manufacturing are steadily migrating to emerging markets, while domestic efforts shift toward strengthening service industries. They too struggle to adapt to such rapid change. For them, the issue is largely about maintaining their current standard of living.

In my view, the initiative shown by young people who see a future here in America is incredibly positive; the potential is certainly there. The biggest hurdle is knowledge. Not necessarily the knowledge of *how* to build something, but the knowledge of how to navigate and adapt within a capitalist framework.

If one masters how to behave under capitalism, a lot can be achieved here. We see an increasing influx of Western novelties—think Big Brother, MTV, and whatnot. Western markets are saturated with just about everything, whereas a country like the US offers massive potential for market expansion. They try to sell us everything, and they succeed. It’s inevitable, and one must learn to adapt; once you do, markets and jobs will grow. It's almost as if people don't realize they can create things themselves or take existing ideas from abroad and tailor them for the American market. The ideas are everywhere, and young, driven people who want to work and learn can always achieve something.

The problem lies with the older generation, who were raised to think in socialist terms and find it difficult to adjust. They instinctively blame the state because they were used to it looking after them. Unfortunately, that transition from one system to another is a slow, unavoidable process.
Ronald Castillo5 Ronald Castillo5 Active MemberOP
60 messages
joined Dec 2005
#83 ·
Look, Mada, you have to realize that even out West, the working class—those folks mostly punching a clock for someone else—constantly expects the government to step in and look out for them. They’re tied to the national economy. An average person doesn't have the wiggle room or the mindset of a capitalist, so their quality of life is pretty much at the mercy of whatever happens with the US economy...

It really varies by country. The capitalist systems in places like Scandinavia or Germany have way more socialist elements baked in compared to the US or the United Kingdom, which are pretty much pure capitalism...

Capitalist nations are stuck with the reality that regular people expect something from the state. Since politicians rely on those voters to stay in power, they have to deliver. In about 15 years, the biggest voting bloc will be retirees. That’s going to be tough on the working crowd, because politicians will be busy catering to seniors just to secure their votes...

In my view, seeing young people who actually see a future here in America is a huge plus, and there's definitely potential. The real hurdle is knowledge. Not knowing how to build things, but rather, knowing how to navigate and adapt within a capitalist system...

If you know how to play the game in a capitalist economy, you can get a lot done. We're seeing more and more Western trends popping up all the time—things like Big Brother, MTV, and whatnot. Western markets are totally saturated, while the US still offers so much room for expansion. Companies try to sell us everything, and it works. It's inevitable, and you have to learn to adapt to it. If you do, the market grows and jobs follow. It isn't like Americans don't know how to create things or take an existing idea from abroad and tailor it for the local market. There are plenty of ideas out there, and driven young people can always make something of themselves...

Yeah... adaptation needs to happen fast. But even that could take a decade or more. By then, many of these "young" people won't be so young anymore. It honestly surprises me when I hear kids say they have all the time in the world to wait for things to change...

And the big question remains... what if after ten years, things haven't improved, but actually gotten worse? And the youth were just sitting there patiently waiting for better days...

I think part of adapting to capitalism is realizing you can't just bank on a better future or a better government. You have to take matters into your own hands and do what's best for yourself... sometimes, that means moving abroad...
Sophia Brown78 Sophia Brown78 Member
22 messages
joined Dec 2004
#84 ·
@Ronald Castillo5 - I just can't see how helping out the country is some socialist phenomenon. Like, isn't that basically what Kennedy meant when he said, "Ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country"? And this guy was from the least socialist country on the planet... you know, a place where even saying the word "socialism" is practically a swear word.
Look, the state is just people. It’s that simple. If the people are getting screwed, the state is screwed. And if the state is a total mess, then yeah, the people are definitely in the gutter too. It's all connected.

Look, fast forward fifteen years and the biggest voting bloc in this country is gonna be retirees. It’s gonna be brutal for anyone actually out there grinding and working for a living... because politicians are just gonna bend over backwards to please the seniors just to secure those votes.

Looking at some recent stuff that's gone down lately... I'd say we're already seeing it happen right now. 😁

Look... I didn't mean working *for* the government, like you're on their payroll. I meant working for yourself *within* the country. It’s the same thing—you help yourself, and by extension, you help the nation. Just be an entrepreneur. Start exporting stuff, lobby politicians to actually fix the courts, bring in big investors... but instead, we all just sit around waiting for someone else to swoop in and handle it for us. We aren't entrepreneurial. We lack that spark, that initiative. Usually, the "solution" people jump to is just fleeing the country rather than actually trying to build something here. Honestly, thank God it's reached this point, because after years of absolute garbage, everyone between 20 and 30 is totally convinced that you can't start anything in America. They don't even bother trying to shake things up anymore because they’ve already decided change is impossible. They won't try to be business owners because they're certain they'll just go broke. And hey, looking back, they're probably right. With an atmosphere like this, of course people want to pack up and leave. They're positive nothing can get done here—at least not without bribery and corruption. Then we have the nerve to expect the whole situation to flip overnight. Like it'll just fix itself. But it can't change unless *we* change. And we aren't doing a damn thing to fix it because we're too busy being sure we're doomed. And there you go. A vicious circle.

So the question still hangs there, right? Like, what if after ten whole years, things don't actually start looking up... what if they just get worse? We've got an entire generation of young people out here just sitting around, waiting patiently for some better days that might never show up.
I honestly think one of the main ways capitalism adapts is by basically killing any hope for a better future or a better country. People just stop waiting around for the government or some grand plan to fix things. Instead, they figure they have to take matters into their own hands and just do what’s best for themselves right now. Sometimes that means packing up and moving overseas to find something better. It's just how it goes.

That’s exactly my point right there. What the hell are we waiting for? Are we seriously just sitting around expecting everything to be handed to us on a silver platter? If we just sit on our hands and wait, obviously nobody is going to give us a damn thing. There's no such thing as a free lunch—you learn that pretty quick in Econ 101. Nobody is going to hand you success if you don't put in the work to grab it yourself. Patiently waiting? For what, Godot? You’ve got to actually work to make a change happen instead of just sitting around hoping it'll do itself.

Gary Cox72 - Look, the idea is solid. You've got all these young people out there who are actually hungry to work and eager to learn, and honestly? They can achieve just about anything if they get the chance.

Truth be told, I'm with you on this one. Totally.
Terry Cox81 Terry Cox81 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Dec 2004
#85 ·
A few of my buddies have the chance to head abroad, but they aren't really feeling it. Once you factor in the cost of living, the gap between what we make here and what they pay in the EU isn't even that huge.
People leaving nowadays would’ve gone regardless of the paycheck; this kind of movement is just how things work, I guess.

If I actually felt like it, maybe I’d move to somewhere like Mexico, but who wants to deal with all that nonsense over there?

I mean, what’s the point of chasing some higher salary when you could be out in the sun twelve months a year, drinking and hanging with friends?
Gary Cox72 Gary Cox72 Active Member
54 messages
joined Jan 2005
#86 ·
Ronald Castillo5 said:And the question remains... what if, even after a decade, things don't just fail to improve, but actually spiral downward? While the youth wait patiently for those better days to arrive.

I suspect one hallmark of capitalist adaptation is the realization that one shouldn't pin hopes on a brighter future or a better state—instead, the individual takes matters into their own hands to secure their own interests. Sometimes, that means moving abroad.

This idea that "moving abroad" is an option essentially places a person in a position of dependency on a government—only this time, it’s a different one.

Granted, we aren't strictly talking about the state here, but rather the market that a new environment offers. Still, it's a move most characteristic of those who behave like a mass: they don't rely primarily on their own skills, but rather on the conditions imposed by their surroundings.

I see this quite often; I spend five days a week out of the country and two days back home. Even though the current situation in America isn't exactly enviable, the salaries of the people I deal with most frequently have tripled since I left. So, something has indeed improved, and I doubt those wages will drop. On the other hand, wages in Western Europe have been stagnating for a long time.

Some of my acquaintances are hitting the $1,100 mark here, yet their mindset hasn't evolved at all. They still cling to the notion that everything is much easier in Italy, or whatever else. They fail to realize, for instance, that the average salary for a civil servant in Italy is roughly $1,100. Well, an Italian has lived with that for years; they're accustomed to that standard.

Ronald Castillo5, I meant to say that deciding to leave now isn't the same as deciding to head to the United Kingdom ten years ago when you left. Things aren't perfect here in America either, but there is more opportunity for young people than there used to be. Nor is the standard in Western Europe as vastly superior to ours as it once was.

Sophia Brown78 said:rather... I didn't mean working *for* the state in a literal sense, but working for oneself within the country, which benefits both you and the nation. Be an entrepreneur, export goods, lobby politicians to fix the judiciary, attract investors... yet even today, we expect all these things to be done for us. We lack initiative. We aren't entrepreneurial. The solution is usually to run away rather than try to build something. Thank God, the situation is such that after years of dysfunction, everyone currently between 20 and 30 is convinced that nothing can be built in America. They don't even attempt change because they are already certain it's impossible. They won't try to start a business because they are pre-emptively sure it will fail. Because, historically, they were right. In such an atmosphere, of course people want to leave; they are convinced nothing can be achieved here—at least not without bribery and corruption. And then we expect the situation to change overnight. Just like that. But it won't change without us. And we do nothing to change it because we are already convinced of failure. And there it is. A vicious circle.

That is a positive outlook—a lovely sentiment to hear.
Sean Grant85 Sean Grant85 Member
30 messages
joined Mar 2005
#87 ·
TheMagicQuill said:An idea that's been rattling around my brain for the last... well, a few months:
Stay in the States but work for "outsiders"—following the latest trend. I'm not talking about some foreign branch registered here in America, but rather working directly for a specific firm—say, in places like Germany or perhaps even the UK—on a project basis. In other words, you live at home (staying right here in the US), but you work abroad (a business trip of a few days isn't much of an issue for me). That way, you dodge the massive cost of living you'd face if you lived and worked overseas permanently; you stay local, and through sheer grit, you can actually prosper if you're willing to put in the work.
Besides, I'm one of those workaholics—so why not leverage that financially?

👋

I don't think you're alone in this thinking—but the catch is that most talented, driven Americans are having the exact same thought. The result? A massive influx of workaholics and high-level thinkers all vying for the same thing, while the number of foreign firms looking to hire remotely from the US remains limited... eventually, someone has to deal with that surplus—perhaps by revisiting the idea of moving abroad?
casualharbor17 casualharbor17 Newcomer
3 messages
joined May 2004
#88 ·

Ronald Castillo5 said:Great post—well, I wouldn't say everything you wrote is perfect, but it’s excellent because it gives us so much to chew on. I'm not saying you missed any real-world examples; I'm sure everything you mentioned is happening out there, and honestly, things could probably be even worse. But the point I really want to drive home is this: there aren't any set rules here. It all comes down to the individual and how they navigate the situation. There are plenty of ways to make things work—it just depends on whether a person chooses to move forward or let themselves slip.

I basically started this thread because I wanted to see where my perspective lands compared to how people view life abroad versus what happened here in America back in '94—and then see how the younger generation looks at it all now that ten years have passed.

When I first decided to move abroad, I had my heart set on exactly where I ended up—going back to school and getting my education—but I didn't have a dime to my name. Back in '91, I was pulling in maybe a dollar an hour, and then I spent two years back in the classroom. My wife and I eventually figured out a plan to head over to Germany during the summer—she took on house cleaning jobs while I worked washing cars—just so we could scrape something together. We managed to save a few thousand bucks in about two months, and even then, we had to borrow enough just to cover the trip to the UK and pay for that first semester of tuition. Since we weren't EU citizens back then, we had to pay the full out-of-state price upfront. It wasn't easy.

Exactly... we can't even compare our situations. Back then, I didn't even know the language—I was hitting classes during the day and pulling whatever low-wage shifts I could find at night. My wife was doing the exact same thing. But the real point here is that you don't just stumble into success overnight. It feels like kids today expect everything right this second—the cars, the apartments, the designer clothes, all the high-end gear—without putting in the time. You have to look ahead, maybe five years down the road, and set a clear goal. Once you actually see a path forward, that’s what gives you the drive to work 50 hours a week—going to school by day and working late into the night. You grind seven days a week, taking any job that comes your way, for a few years straight. It's doable if you have that vision. Usually, the guy who thinks he can skip the struggle and jump straight to the good life ends up blowing half a gram of something white instead.

Look, it wasn't really about hoarding cash for my wife and me—that was never the main goal. It was all about getting my education. And honestly, when you're paying those massive tuition fees for a degree, there isn't much room left for "saving money"—it just wasn't an option for us back then.

Everything you're saying holds water—it's all valid points that we definitely need to consider. But again, there isn't one single rule for this; it really comes down to the individual. It could play out exactly how you described, it could be even worse, or honestly, it could be much better. The main thing I want to emphasize is that opportunities exist to achieve things that look impossible at first glance. To me, the West provides a much better foundation—a fertile ground where a person can actually push their intellectual and physical limits, step outside their comfort zone, and truly tap into their full potential.

Back when I was working in the fax industry, I saw tons of people from the old North America region coming through over the last 30 years. I actually ended up being the first one among my peers to buy a house while I was still a student. Of course—it took about four years to pull it off... but honestly, who expects you to have everything figured out on day one? Unless you show up with a massive bag of cash, that kind of thing is just impossible.

Everyone thought it was impossible—who’s going to grant the loans, who's going to fund it, all that nonsense. But get this: people in the UK and other parts of Europe don't even pay tuition because they're part of the European Union... plus, they end up taking out massive bank loans just to cover their living expenses while they're hitting the books. I had it different. I had to pay my own way through school and work on the side just to stay afloat. Most graduates over in the UK come out the other side buried under $5,000 to $15,000 in debt that they spend years paying off. Me? I finished my studies with enough cash saved up to put down a 15% deposit on a house. Honestly, when I tell people from the UK that, their heads just spin.

Look, what I’m trying to say is—it’s tough at first. Of course you start out behind the curve. But because we actually value the opportunities we get here way more than the people born into them, we have this ability to take something mediocre and turn it into something exceptional. We don't even need to be geniuses to make that happen. It's just that we come from places where nothing was ever handed to us on a silver platter—so we fight a lot harder than the locals do. My peers back in the UK are just now starting to think about buying their first house, while I'm already looking ahead to my very last mortgage payment.

The average American rents for about ten years before finally buying their first home. Most first-time buyers aren't hitting that milestone until they're around 34. So—look—it’s not like even the locals have everything handed to them on a silver platter right away.

Come on, you can't compare apples to oranges here. I think it's much more important to look at how young people view their own future—how far ahead they're planning. Anyone who demands everything "right now" usually ends up failing, and honestly, they rarely find any real happiness.

At the end of the day, happiness isn't measured by what you own.

It wasn't instant, but back when I was a student, I managed to buy a house after five years... and honestly? It looks like I'll pay it off way faster than my boss, who's been at the firm for 25 years while I've only been there 18 months. Sure, eventually, I'll probably buy something bigger and better and take out another loan... but it all comes down to the individual—what they do with their capital (whether that's brainpower, time, or cash). Often, it’s not about how much someone earns, but how they spend (or invest) it.

Whether you're abroad or right here in the States, the rules for debt stay the same. There is good debt and there is bad debt.

Good debt is when the move makes you more money than the interest you're handing over to the banker—like in investing—or when the alternative is just more expensive (like buying a house with a mortgage because renting would cost you way more in the long run). So, the size of the loan doesn't matter, provided it's actually good debt.

Bad debt is when you take out a loan just to blow it on liabilities—things that just drain your wallet or lose value almost immediately... things like cars, luxury items, vacations, and so on.

If someone really needs credit, they should keep it small. (We've all been there—sometimes life just throws things at you that you have to cover.)

And if you absolutely have to take out a massive loan, make sure someone else is the one footing the bill for the interest (through investing).

Whether you're living in Afghanistan, the US, or West London... if you don't follow these principles, you're going to end up in a hole and it won't be pretty.


Ronald Castillo5, please—help me out here. How did you manage to study in England, paying £6,000 a year for tuition, plus rent (at least £150 a week), plus food and basic living costs (at least £100 a week),
while working the cheapest jobs possible (maybe £250 a week)?

Was your wife working for you, or did you have a wealthy dad?
The math just doesn't add up.
If you could just let me in on the secret (show me the numbers),

I'd really appreciate it.
I'm just interested in the numbers.
Or maybe you were using some tricks.

Because if you were, I might just start doing the same.
Ronald Castillo5 Ronald Castillo5 Active MemberOP
60 messages
joined Dec 2005
#89 ·
Back then, we had cheap student housing for about $7,500 a year, and utilities were extra. My wife was working just as hard as I mentioned. If I’d grown up with a wealthy father, things would have been different... But looking at the math, she was pulling 70-hour weeks while I worked 35 hours during school and more than that during breaks and summers... We were hitting about 90 hours combined every week. We managed to bring in maybe $2,000 to $2,500 a month, which was actually enough to cover our bills and still let us travel and enjoy ourselves a bit...

Do those numbers make more sense now?
casualharbor17 casualharbor17 Newcomer
3 messages
joined May 2004
#90 ·
Ronald Castillo5 said:We had cheap student housing for about $7,500 a year—utilities were extra. My wife was working just like I mentioned, too. Look, if I’d grown up with a wealthy dad, we wouldn't have been grinding like this. Just to be clear: my wife was pulling 70-hour weeks, and I was doing 35 hours while in school full-time, then picking up extra shifts during breaks and over the summer... we were hitting about 90 hours a week combined. We managed to bring in maybe $1,500 to $2,000 a month, which actually covered our bills and let us travel a bit here and there—you know, enjoy life.

Does that make the math a little clearer?

So, you're basically a modern-day migrant worker—bringing skills and cash back home.
Honestly, that sounds a bit too extreme for me.
I couldn't do something like that—my values are just different.

Let me try to explain why.

You're sacrificing—and still sacrificing—the best years of your life just to chase the American dream.

Maybe you'll actually achieve it (or maybe you won't) by the time you're 50 or 60—but the real question is whether you'll still have your health, or if you'll even be happy and content when you're old. Everything has a price tag. It just depends on how you look at money—whether you're looking at the left side or the right side of the coin. Is it better to *have* or to *be*? That’s the question.

Working a job just for the paycheck in the long run—instead of being able to socialize, express yourself, or find emotional and creative outlets through your work—feels like a path straight toward slavery to me.
Total robotization. An illusion.

Your income becomes your entire purpose and lifestyle. And eventually, that's your only source of satisfaction (adrenaline) and security (peace).

But what happens if this inflated bubble (the American dream) finally pops?

When the money runs out, you get unrest and dissatisfaction.
That leads to internal conflict, social friction, increased aggression, exploitation... essentially,
sophisticated fascism.

And what if the US ends up looking like that in ten years?
The day started off so nicely—we all felt so innocent.
Mammon, hmmm.
Ronald Castillo5 Ronald Castillo5 Active MemberOP
60 messages
joined Dec 2005
#91 ·
That's a great observation, but this space is a bit too small to really define someone's lifestyle, which depends so much on individual values and priorities.

You sacrificed, and continue to sacrifice, the best years of your life to chase the American dream.

Instead of "sacrifice," I’d use the word "leveraged." You leverage your best years when your potential is at its peak to actually get things done. After 40, you're playing catch-up...

Maybe you'll achieve it—or maybe you won't—when you hit 50 or 60. But the real question is whether you'll have the health to enjoy it, or if you'll actually be happy and satisfied as an old man. Everything comes with a price tag.
Working just for a paycheck in the long run, without being able to socialize, express yourself, or find emotional and creative fulfillment through your work, feels like a path toward modern slavery.
Automation. An illusion.

First off, besides energy issues, the biggest economic threat facing humanity is the pension crisis. You're going to read tons about this over the next decade or two. Why? Beyond inefficient government systems, the biggest fault lies with millions of people who didn't maximize their potential while they had the chance to secure their own retirement. And trust me, nothing is worse than reaching your later years and having to rely on crumbs falling from someone else's table—whether that's the government, family members, or the Red Cross.

And secondly... the American dream isn't the point. Quality of life is. You can't measure quality of life solely through money. You need a holistic approach to living. That means investing in your physical, emotional-spiritual, and mental well-being. That applies no matter where on the planet you live. Honestly, your last sentence sounds a lot like something I've heard from the older generation of expats. They lived exactly how you described. But the expats from the 90s were a different breed. They were a generation that moved abroad to get a top-tier education and fully assimilate into society; they loved to travel and go out... they weren't just working themselves to death to build a massive house back home.

Here is a quick look at my own philosophy on life and how I try to live it, regardless of where I am in the world:

Essentially, it's a holistic approach: physical, emotional, and social satisfaction...

Physical: I'm constantly educating myself to stay ahead in my career and adapt to whatever economic shifts come my way. I invest in myself, but I also make sure my money works for me, rather than just me working for the money... which allows me to:

Emotional-spiritual: Alongside business, I studied theology and philosophy. I also love diving into history and religion as a hobby. I invest time there too, simply for my own sake. There's no profit in it, but I truly believe it helps maintain my mental balance and overall quality of life.

Social: I hit the gym five times a week because I take bodybuilding pretty seriously for a hobby, and I play soccer with friends once a week. I don't drink or smoke, and I stick to a very healthy diet, so I'm not worried about aging... and I'm certainly not burning myself out through work. The beginning was physically grueling, those first few years... but laying the foundation is always the hardest part, especially if you're digging into solid ground. But that's how you build a house that won't fall down the first time a strong wind blows.

All of this involves plenty of socializing with the people around me. At the end of the day, family is what matters most.

Happiness and fulfillment aren't just gifts dropped from the sky. They’re built. You have to step into them. Quality of life is something we craft with our own hands... Every day gives us 86,400 seconds, and in every single one, we face a choice about how to use our potential and where to invest it.

You're spot on—living without a plan is basically voluntary slavery. There are really two types of people out there: those who take the wheel of their own lives, and those who let the cycle spin them around until they become victims of circumstance.

Money becomes the whole point and the entire lifestyle. In the end, it's the only source of excitement (adrenaline) or stability (peace). But what happens if this inflated bubble, this American dream, finally bursts?

When the money dries up—or when drugs take its place—restlessness and discontent set in...
leading to internal conflict and societal friction. We see more aggression and exploitation, which is really just...
sophisticated fascism.

Oh, absolutely... you hit the nail on the head. If money is treated as an end in itself, then that's exactly what happens. However, if the goal is a holistic quality of life, then lacking one specific thing shouldn't dictate a person's happiness or satisfaction.

Personally, I think people should be motivated by money, but not for the sake of the cash itself. It's about the freedom that money can buy. Most of us are born into a system where we have to work just to buy back our free time. Chasing that freedom is a noble goal. If we truly value our downtime—the time we want to spend with family, kids, and loved ones—then we have to figure out the best way to secure that liberty. At the end of the day, money doesn't have intrinsic value. It's just a medium of exchange. People trade currency for things that actually matter to them. For some, it's a Ford... for me, it's free time. You have to pay for both. Everyone chooses what's worth their price.

Knowing how to spend (or invest) money is a much greater art than simply knowing how to earn it. Most people just don't get that...
Gary Cox72 Gary Cox72 Active Member
54 messages
joined Jan 2005
#92 ·
Ronald Castillo5 said:It’s a much higher art to know how to deploy capital—to invest it—than it is to simply earn it. Most people just don't grasp that distinction.

Precisely.
Aaron Kern10 Aaron Kern10 Newcomer
5 messages
joined Dec 2004
#93 ·
papa štrumf said:Wait, did he actually walk away with 25 salaries as severance? I always thought in Germany, if you get laid off, you just get one month's pay for every year you were there...

Usually, you get severance based on how many years you put in, which typically ranges from
about 2 months up to 12 months of pay if you've been grinding at the "same" company for 25 years...
On that thread about how AT&T is laying people off here in the US and giving out over $67 in severance for just 11 years of service, someone from Phoenix totally chewed me out. I got a bit heated and said there's no way anyone gets that kind of money elsewhere, since that's basically like getting paid for 4 whole years!
That kind of deal is unheard of anywhere else, but it actually happened right here in America to a 34-year-old with an 11-year tenure...
😕
swiftscout8 swiftscout8 Active Member
87 messages
joined Apr 2007
#94 ·
It’s a shame I didn't stumble upon this thread sooner. At this point, everything has already been said.

I have zero interest in moving away. I can live a perfectly decent life here on my $5,000-something a month. Why would I go work in Germany just to earn double the salary while facing double the cost of living? And then learn German on top of it? No thanks.

I also completely agree with the point that nothing is ever just handed to you on a silver platter. If you want lunch or dinner, you actually have to work for it—and work hard. The older generations—my parents, my grandparents, and so on—just don't grasp how capitalism actually functions. To them, the government is always the culprit.
Ronald Castillo5 Ronald Castillo5 Active MemberOP
60 messages
joined Dec 2005
#95 ·
Everything's cool, man...

But could you explain a bit more how you think it’s actually possible to live decently here in the States with $1667.

I’m not saying it’s impossible, I just want some clarification on how that works...

Do you even pay rent or something?....
Andrew Richardson8 Andrew Richardson8 Member
19 messages
joined Nov 2004
#96 ·
Papa Smurf said:Give me a break on those costs 🙄. I mean, do people over there actually have to shell out more than half their paycheck for six years just to get a new Ford diesel? Or are they all stuck paying off a 400-square-foot studio apartment for thirty years straight?

No, "over there," money just lies on the sidewalk waiting for you; you just have to bend over and pick it up. Actually, you don't even have to bend over. You just pay someone else to do the bending for you. Costs are practically nonexistent—you buy one scoop of ice cream and they hand you a second one for free. Over there, the houses are made of chocolate and the windows are made of jelly. Everything is perfect, everything is wonderful (is that how the song goes?), and every kind of fruit grows there...
Benjamin Ramos95 Benjamin Ramos95 Member
23 messages
joined Nov 2007
#97 ·
Andrew Richardson8 said:Nah, in that wonderland, money just rolls down the street; you just have to bend over and pick it up. Actually, why even bend over? Just hire someone to do the bending for you! There aren't even any expenses to worry about, and when you buy one scoop of ice cream, they give you a second one for free. It’s all candy houses and jelly windows. Everything is perfect there, everything is joyful (is that how the song goes?), and every kind of fruit grows there...


I am definitely not buying into that hype! If things were actually better here, you know every single person from Canada would be flocking to the US 😁 to soak up the high standard of living, those massive paychecks, the luxury apartments, and driving a Ford—not that we Americans can afford that, since we're always paying for everything upfront in cash, right? 😂
swiftscout8 swiftscout8 Active Member
87 messages
joined Apr 2007
#98 ·
Ronald Castillo5 said:Could you maybe explain how you think it’s possible to live a decent life here in America with $1667?

I’ve got a third floor in my house that my parents built—it was a total mess back then. Now, I’m slowly and carefully renovating it.

By the end of the month, I usually have about $1,500 left over $667. Naturally, that money gets set aside specifically for furniture.

On top of that, I put part of my car purchase on credit, so if you take those $1833 and subtract $433, that’s what my monthly payment looks like.

I honestly don't get people who struggle to make ends meet on $5k a month. It’s not a mystery; it’s just what happens when you $667 blow everything on nonsense.
swiftscout8 swiftscout8 Active Member
87 messages
joined Apr 2007
#99 ·
P.S. And if I actually had rent to pay, I’d be staring at another bill anyway. So 😕
Gary Cox72 Gary Cox72 Active Member
54 messages
joined Jan 2005
#100 ·
Ronald Castillo5 said:Everything’s fine, man...

But give me a bit more detail—how exactly do you think one lives decently in America with $1667.

I'm not saying it’s impossible, but please, elaborate.

Do you even pay rent or something?....

It is actually quite useful when people present concrete data. In my view, that is the easiest way to compare the current standard of living in the US against some of the more developed nations in the European Union. I personally prefer specific examples—otherwise, everything else tends to be mere assumptions and exaggerations based on outdated experiences from years ago, where those "powerful" European countries—like, I don't know, what—dominate the conversation.

For instance, what is the average salary in the United Kingdom?
In Italy, the average salary for a civil servant or similar role is roughly 1,100 Euros. I believe that would be comparable to the average salary in the US for such a position, which sits at $1.75.
When you factor in rent prices—or mortgage payments if you're buying (given that real estate costs two to three times more)—and weigh that against the US salary ratio of $1.75, you find a very slim advantage for Italy. And if you consider that grabbing a beer at a decent spot will set you back 4 Euros and so on,...

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