Spiritual Teacher?!

Vorkosigan said:on spiritual teachers
I only hang out with people who are actually searching; I spend my time studying various different techniques. I try to stay far away from those who claim they've already "found it." Honestly, I'm convinced they're just wrong.
But if you're specifically looking for something you can just believe in without questioning, then you're using a bad technique. In that case, I really don't know what to tell you.

The whole point isn't about reaching some final destination anyway; it's about the journey itself. I mean, I don't think there even is a "goal" in spiritual growth. Once you arrive somewhere, the journey stops, and to me, that sounds like a disaster for actual development. There shouldn't be any stopping point, because I guess any kind of stagnation is basically a failure.

to reach for the star, no matter how hopeless, no matter how far
I find myself humming those lyrics all the time.

Finally, 👍I'm
done.

Vorkosigan:
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I make it a point to steer clear of those who claim to have found the truth, because I am convinced they are dead wrong.
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You’re absolutely right, Vorkosigan.
Unless, of course, you actually understood the reasoning behind it.👋

Jack Harris3:
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What seems to be the problem, "Master"? Have we finally managed to trip over our own tangled web of contradictions?

First, you claim:

quote:
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Pache, even when you are absolutely CONVINCED that an ENLIGHTENED BEING stands
before you, you are still merely LYING TO YOURSELF.
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And then, just a few posts later, you state with total CERTAINTY:

quote:
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The grass and the trees have ALWAYS been ENLIGHTENED.
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SINCE WHEN HAS JACK HARRIS BEEN SAYING THAT?

Surely you aren't some low-life scavenger without even a shred of dignity left?
Tell your master that the first thought from this "MASTER" describes the CONSCIOUSNESS OF AN UNENLIGHTENED BEING.

The second, however, describes the CONSCIOUSNESS OF AN ENLIGHTENED BEING.

Such "MASTERFUL" assertions can only be understood by ENLIGHTENED DOGS. 🙂 🙏 😎

As for that "third quote," this "MASTER" uttered it ages ago.
But a scavenger is a scavenger, endlessly gnawing at the exact same bone. 😛

velvetpilot212:
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There shouldn't be any interruptions here, because every moment we pause is nothing short of a defeat.
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Every version of heaven and hell begins with such lucid principles.😲

What on earth have you all done to this thread?!? 🙄 😢

Jack Harris3:
"I have an answer! Unfortunately—it doesn't actually answer the question..." 😁 👍

Am I allowed to quote you and pass that along to Jose Reyes?? 😉

Parsifal:

PLEASE try to understand the spirit behind what I’m trying to say rather than just the literal wording of my speech

Oh, I understand you perfectly. And honestly, you phrased it quite nicely... 🙏

And finally:

Vorkosigan said:on spiritual teachers

The point isn't really about reaching a destination, but rather the journey itself, because I don't believe there is such a thing as a final goal in spiritual growth. Once you arrive, the journey ends, and in my view, that would be detrimental to spiritual evolution. There shouldn't be any stopping point, because to me, any kind of stagnation feels like a defeat.

to reach for the star, no matter how hopeless, no matter how far
that's a line I find myself humming quite often

Lastly—some advice (and I mean this without being combative)... 🙂
And it's actually decent advice....
👍 👏

3) if you still have questions regarding the software emanating from the great master Parsifal
just ask.

What are you, some kind of IT specialist?🙂

ramana maharsi

We already established that... what exactly are you copying here?🙂 🙂 🙂

PARSIFAL understands how EM has made a more significant impact somewhere today

What is wrong with you, writing about him in the third person like that?🙄

Nisargadat

Jose Reyes... I’m asking for your take on this man... is he actually enlightened???

First you say:

quote:Pache, even when you are CONVINCED that an ENLIGHTENED BEING is right in front
of you, you go back to LYING TO YOURSELF.

Then, just a few posts later, you’re acting completely CERTAIN:

quote:And grass and trees have ALWAYS been ENLIGHTENED.

What you're missing is a third quote where you claim you were just lying to yourself with those first two.

An enlightened one would probably demand an explanation from an enlighteta... but I'll try to explain it myself..

That "universal divine consciousness" (an expression I just cooked up... but you know what I mean😁 ) exists everywhere and all at once....
In humans, enlightenment happens (heightened states of awareness, etc... blah blah blah)... essentially, they possess a pre-existing ego-consciousness, and we call the shift that occurs "enlightenment"... not because that universal consciousness wasn't present within them all along, but simply because of that transition...
Trees don't have an ego-consciousness.. (yet that universal consciousness is present everywhere, including in trees and in us... and no change is required... because there is nothing in a tree that needs changing)....

Thanks for still putting up with my rambling.👋 😎 😁

Karen Sanchez19, you’ve certainly put together quite the elaborate vision of this "universal consciousness" of yours, haven't you?😎

Even Jose Reyes has pointed out, on more than one occasion, how he was essentially "launched" into the spotlight by that spiritual amateur Balsekar.

Why don't you drop one of his writings right here?
Or perhaps Parsifal has something suitable?
I'm sure Jose Reyes will have plenty to say about it. 😉

Jose Reyes said:hollowviper72:
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A Master John walks the exact same path as the old man—he’s just approaching from the opposite direction. You really need to sit with that koan for a moment and think it through.
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Now, hollowviper72, you've got it backwards—a koan isn't some tool meant for "thinking" in the traditional sense.
😕 🙄

John, I have to disagree—without thought, there can be no true understanding. Thinking is the essential first step. If you don't take that initial step of contemplation, you aren't going anywhere, not even on the shortest path imaginable.

Jose Reyes said:Man, this "master" dropped that third quote ages ago.

I know, I saw it way back on that thread of yours.
But I actually dig this one too:

Back in his old-school forum days, John used to say more than once
that you can't even see or recognize ENLIGHTENMENT.

Now you'll probably jump in and tell me that applies to those who aren't enlightened. 😁
Or that an enlightened person will always recognize another. 😁
So I'm gonna go hunt down that quote where you claim every enlightenment is unique and ask if there's some kind of secret code you get when you reach it... 😁
And then we can circle back to:

The grass and the trees are ALWAYS enlightened.

Which pretty much rules out all that nonsense about recognition. 😛
Maybe the master is just trying to nudge people toward becoming aware of their own enlightenment, so they finally understand everyone else's too? 😁
Geez, master... 😂
Did it really take you 27 years to figure that out? 😛

But Jack Harris is Jack Harris, always gnawing at the exact same bone. 😛

Hey, I don't mind getting something fresh and new, but only if you actually have something to offer. If you've got nothing, you just keep gnawing on what's left. 🙂

hollowviper72, there is absolutely no connection between "thinking" and true "comprehension."
As long as you are merely thinking, you remain in ignorance.
With "comprehension," however—you finally know.
"Comprehension" isn't some byproduct of "thinking," hollowviper72.
Rather, "comprehension" is the sudden integration of a NEW DETAIL into your own PERSONAL CONSCIOUSNESS.
Keep that in mind.

If we followed the logic of your assumptions to their ultimate conclusion, one might imagine a person could simply deduce Enlightenment for themselves.
But they cannot.

"Thinking," on the other hand, is nothing more than running in place.
It is pure LER.
Just ask people like Marie Curie or Dmitri Mendeleev what they actually discovered versus what was simply revealed to them in the middle of an ordinary dream. 😎 🙂

I honestly don't get why spirituality always devolves into these constant petty arguments. It’s not even just that; it feels like everyone is just playing word games to sound deep. I mean, if you really think about it, maybe we shouldn't be talking about spirituality at all.

Jack Harris3:
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... does enlightenment come with some kind of secret code?
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It isn’t SECRET, but it remains utterly indecipherable to the UNENLIGHTENED.
There has to be a "code."
If there weren't, what exactly would distinguish you from Master John?

Jack Harris3:
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Did it really take you twenty-seven years to figure that out?
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Actually, it took even longer, considering just how demanding the process is.
But, since we are talking about Master John, ...🙂 😉

velvetpilot212:
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one shouldn't even bother discussing spirituality in the first place.
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Master John was already testing the waters here back in March when he posted that "SPIRITUALITY IS A LIE" thread, velvetpilot212.
"Aspera," his original handle, if you recall.

A true seeker of truth cannot possibly be "spiritual," gentlemen.
Every single one of your sensations is rooted in this material world.
No matter how subtle or sublime they might seem, they remain tainted by the sensation of your own ego's presence within the COSMIC GAME.

If you were actually "spiritual" yourselves, then what on earth would "spirituality" even look like for an awakened soul, velvetpilot212?😕 🙄 😉

Hey, Jack Harris3!
Where on earth did Baron Borg disappear to?
Is that old Latin charm of yours still working its magic?😁 🙂

On another note, about those new bones we discussed.
Let's be honest: nobody gets anything handed to them around here unless they actually put in the work.
You really need to start stepping up your game. 😲 😁

Jose Reyes said:hollowviper72, "thinking" and "understanding" aren't even in the same ballpark.

As long as you keep looking at things through that lens, you're just going to stay stuck in a dead end.

velvetpilot212 hit the nail on the head there—you simply can't debate spirituality. Everything we can actually talk about is based on our own lived experiences—not someone else's. That’s really the whole point of a koan, isn't it? It doesn't matter how anyone else reaches enlightenment; what matters is how *we* get there. And the answer to that question lives right inside us—nobody else can hand it to us.

Jose Reyes said:If he didn't have it, what would even be the difference between you and Master John?

And you really think there is one? 😁

The Baron actually picked up some Latin flair back in the day...

I told him I wouldn't mind at all if he tossed a new bone my way. That’s all... 😛
So, if you've got something tucked away, you can either throw it to me voluntarily, or let it fall to the floor and I'll just snatch it up. 😁

I'll give you a little bite as thanks, obviously. A little tail wagging, whatever you want... 😁

hollowviper72:
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As long as you continue thinking that way, you’ll find yourself stuck in a permanent stalemate.
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Master John doesn't need to sit around "thinking" about it.
Everything he needs is already right there in front of him.
He isn't standing still in a dead end, hollowviper72.😎 🙂

Jack Harris3:
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And you honestly believe she exists?
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Master John isn't even thinking about it anymore. (Just look at the post above)

The real sharks in the financial sector are picking the bones clean.
To the point where Master John can't even see what's happening right in front of him.
Would you say they're working overtime just to make sure he stays blind?
Presto!😛 😎

Good grief, between how much the terminology has been getting muddled here and how you've dragged in basically every topic from the sub-forum... it feels like everyone is just taking a completely different route to the same destination.

Since a few people are still missing from this conversation, I figured I'd toss in my own little contribution... 😁

Enlightenment is really nothing more than amplifying the light within the darkness of the form we were born into.

Or, to put it another way, could we say 🤔 the following:
Enlightenment is; it reveals itself, limited by the "constriction" of the form in which we are "prisoners."
Consciousness is; also limited by the "constriction" of the form in which we are "prisoners."
Ratio is the "level" of consciousness within which form is "defined" (materially).
Spirituality would then be the ability of ratio to "perceive" consciousness.

So, is everything that exists—and everything that claims to exist—just a trick played on ratio, making it believe it has perceived something that is actually beyond its reach, simply because it has "ascended" a level of consciousness?

Anyway, Vorkosigan, nice work on the thought process. 👍
I can see the original poster did a much better job here too. 🙂 😉