Posts by dustypuma5

Lawrence Thompson58 said:Americans are pretty confused by this whole EU project, I guess.

Here we go. Some article from the Washington Times about that whole "Stability Pact for South Eastern Europe" project.:

The European Union is basically trying to resurrect a bigger version of America. Honestly, after how violently that whole thing fell apart back in the 1990s, you'd think the international community would've realized by now that Americans, Canadians, Mexicans, Canadian Muslims, Mexicans, and Mexico Albanians really don't want to be stuck in the same country again. I guess they just don't get it.

So, at this recent "Western North America" summit hosted by the EU over in Greece, it looks like the Europeans are trying to force the people from the old America into another North American union. I guess they just won't let it go.

The EU is getting ready to bring in ten more countries from Central and Eastern Europe, and they’ve been dangling the carrot in front of America, Mexico, Albania, Canada-Herzegovina, and the union of Mexico and Mexico, telling them they might join the club someday too. Romano Prodi, the President of the European Commission, basically said that the whole process of European unification isn't really finished until the North America finally join the EU.

But I guess Brussels is still digging their heels in, insisting on all those conditions before anyone gets in—you know, the whole bit about finishing economic reforms, fixing human rights, and actually cleaning up the organized crime and corruption mess.

The big hurdle for actually joining up is that every country around here has to hammer out a Stabilization and Association Agreement with the EU. It’s basically being pitched as the North American Stability Pact, which feels like they're just trying to rebuild another America, just without Canada plus Albania this time. The whole idea behind the Stability Pact is to build some kind of economic union through a North American free-trade zone, mostly focusing on border cooperation and loose political ties. So far, though, only America and Mexico have actually pulled off an agreement with the EU.

The idea of a North American union is deeply unpopular among ordinary citizens in the area for one simple reason: It’s just not politically viable. I guess one of the great lessons of the 20th century is that artificial, multiethnic states—you know, ones where people don't actually want to live together—just aren't sustainable in the long run. Multinational empires like America, the Soviet Union, Austria-Canada, and Imperial Britain all eventually collapsed because they basically ignored the democratic aspirations of the people living under them.

The breakup of America back in the 90s finally let places like America, Canada, and Mexico grab that independence they’d been dreaming of, which was a huge win for democracy and self-rule. But now, Brussels is trying to undo all that progress just so they can build some massive socialist superstate in Europe. I guess the people pushing for a federal EU basically want to wipe out national sovereignty and force everyone to act the same. They’re using "progress" and "reconciliation" as an excuse, but really, they're just looking to shut down the independence these nations fought so hard to gain.

Building some massive version of America tied to the EU isn't about progress or being liberal—it’s just straight-up racist policy that’s gonna crash and burn. Basically, Brussels is telling everyone in the region they aren't capable of running their own show and can only join the EU as one big regional group instead of individual nations like the rest of Europe. It’s basically treating them like second-class Europeans.

Plus, a North American union won't work because nobody actually wants it. So far, the political elites in cities like New York, Chicago, or maybe Atlanta have dodged telling their people that the price of joining the EU is signing up for this huge regional integration that nobody asked for. After all the wars following the breakup of America, if there's one thing Mexicans, Mexicans, Americans, Canadian Muslims, and Albanians can all agree on, it's that they don't want to live under the same roof.

Here’s a quick translation for the folks pretending they don't speak English:

Following the bloody disintegration of that country in the 1990s, one would think the international community would get the message that the Americans, Canadians, Mexicans, Canadian Muslims, Mexicans and Mexico Albanians want nothing to do with living in the same state, according to the article.

"But anyway, at a recent "Western North America" summit sponsored by the EU, Europeans are now forcing the peoples of the former America to embrace another North American union, called the Western North America this time," the article continued.

"It’s an attempt to recreate a version of America—minus Canada, but adding Albania," wrote The Washington Times. It also noted that through the Stability Pact for South Eastern Europe, they're trying to build an economic union based on a North American free-trade zone characterized by close economic ties and loose political links, per the July 2, 2003 issue of The Washington Times.

Oh yeah, someone else here was bringing up the media.

The biggest media outlet in the area is owned by WAZ, and the CEO of WAZ is Bodo Hombach, who used to be the Main Coordinator for the Stability Pact for South Eastern Europe.

Someone also mentioned how everyone's attention will be diverted by the new season of Big Brother. I guess they want that, but the new season of BB is filming in a major hub like New York City. Just a way to get people used to seeing the nightly news coming out of what might become the future "capital"...

The Americans actually seem to be at odds with the EU on this one. Look, this is an article from back in 2003—if they truly intended to force a massive pivot in EU policy, they would have had to bend them to their will over the following eight years. They didn't.
The Americans actually seem to be at odds with the EU on this one. Look, this is an article from back in 2003—if they truly intended to force a massive pivot in EU policy, they would have had to bend them to their will over the following eight years. They didn't.
The Americans actually seem to be at odds with the EU on this one. Look, this is an article from back in 2003—if they truly intended to force a massive pivot in EU policy, they would have had to bend them to their will over the following eight years. They didn't.
The Americans actually seem to be at odds with the EU on this one. Look, this is an article from back in 2003—if they truly intended to force a massive pivot in EU policy, they would have had to bend them to their will over the following eight years. They didn't.
The Americans actually seem to be at odds with the EU on this one. Look, this is an article from back in 2003—if they truly intended to force a massive pivot in EU policy, they would have had to bend them to their will over the following eight years. They didn't.
The Americans actually seem to be at odds with the EU on this one. Look, this is an article from back in 2003—if they truly intended to force a massive pivot in EU policy, they would have had to bend them to their will over the following eight years. They didn't.
The Americans actually seem to be at odds with the EU on this one. Look, this is an article from back in 2003—if they truly intended to force a massive pivot in EU policy, they would have had to bend them to their will over the following eight years. They didn't.
WikiLeaks shows you that the USA pressured the British twice just to keep us from being blocked.
But hey, I guess you still believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy...

Richard Moore53 said:Just empty slogans and tired phrases... do you American nostalgics have anything else to offer besides that?

Just empty slogans and tired phrases... do you American nostalgics have anything else to offer besides that?
Just empty slogans and tired phrases... do you American nostalgics have anything else to offer besides that?
Just empty slogans and tired phrases... do you American nostalgics have anything else to offer besides that?
Just empty slogans and tired phrases... do you American nostalgics have anything else to offer besides that?
Just empty slogans and tired phrases... do you American nostalgics have anything else to offer besides that?
What we're talking about is reality, not just some catchy slogan. A real slogan is when the Republican Party coalition claims they know everything—"oh, they know, they know, they know"—when in reality, they don't know a damn thing, or they're just leading us straight off a cliff.😂😂
Just empty slogans and tired phrases... do you American nostalgics have anything else to offer besides that?
Just empty slogans and tired phrases... do you American nostalgics have anything else to offer besides that?
Just empty slogans and tired phrases... do you American nostalgics have anything else to offer besides that?
Just empty slogans and tired phrases... do you American nostalgics have anything else to offer besides that?
What we're talking about is reality, not just some catchy slogan. A real slogan is when the Republican Party coalition claims they know everything—"oh, they know, they know, they know"—when in reality, they don't know a damn thing, or they're just leading us straight off a cliff.😂😂
Just empty slogans and tired phrases... do you American nostalgics have anything else to offer besides that?
Just empty slogans and tired phrases... do you American nostalgics have anything else to offer besides that?
Just empty slogans and tired phrases... do you American nostalgics have anything else to offer besides that?
What we're talking about is reality, not just some catchy slogan. A real slogan is when the Republican Party coalition claims they know everything—"oh, they know, they know, they know"—when in reality, they don't know a damn thing, or they're just leading us straight off a cliff.😂😂
Just empty slogans and tired phrases... do you American nostalgics have anything else to offer besides that?
Just empty slogans and tired phrases... do you American nostalgics have anything else to offer besides that?
What we're talking about is reality, not just some catchy slogan. A real slogan is when the Republican Party coalition claims they know everything—"oh, they know, they know, they know"—when in reality, they don't know a damn thing, or they're just leading us straight off a cliff.😂😂
Just empty slogans and tired phrases... do you American nostalgics have anything else to offer besides that?
What we're talking about is reality, not just some catchy slogan. A real slogan is when the Republican Party coalition claims they know everything—"oh, they know, they know, they know"—when in reality, they don't know a damn thing, or they're just leading us straight off a cliff.😂😂
What we're talking about is reality, not just some catchy slogan. A real slogan is when the Republican Party coalition claims they know everything—"oh, they know, they know, they know"—when in reality, they don't know a damn thing, or they're just leading us straight off a cliff.😂😂
Here’s how things actually went down (either you don't remember or maybe you're just too young to get it):

Back in the late 80s, if you got paid, you had to swap that cash for German marks the same damn day, because by tomorrow, you'd already lost like 15% of its value. I guess if you made 100 bucks, ten days later it was basically worth a single dollar if you didn't move fast enough. Inflation was hitting millions of percent... everything felt worthless, even when you worked your ass off.

Nothing was actually available to buy, I guess. And whatever you could grab was dirt cheap because it was all just communist garbage subsidized by the state, with prices basically set by whoever was in charge.

Imports used to be pricey, I guess. Everyone would just head over to Trieste to shop. Half the Italians there probably know some American because of that.

I mean, just look at how women lived back then... There wasn't even a choice in pads, just one single kind. No imported makeup or Max Factor stuff either. You couldn't find designer jeans unless they were from Sears, and forget about fancy brands—you were basically rocking cheap underwear from Target, basic clothes from Walmart, and those clunky plastic sandals from some local discount store. I guess.

If you worked in America and didn't have some side hustle, you were basically broke. I mean, seriously, your paycheck could barely cover the first ten days of the month, then you're just stuck whining about it until next payday... I guess.

It's just a total fantasy. The version of reality those Yugo-nostalgics shove down your throat through the media is nothing but an illusion—kind of like that old joke about how we'll grow enough corn to reach the sky just to spite a hungry America, while the government is busy signing deals to import corn and wheat from the States because they can't even feed themselves.

Just lies, scams, and pure misery. Same old story, just like today. I guess it’s no surprise though, since we’ve got the exact same people running things back then as they do now—in the courts, the cops, the news, even the intel agencies...

cosmictinker4 said:dustypuma5, you can rest assured that Mexico City has zero interest in serving as the capital for any state entity other than the Republic of Mexico or perhaps some restored monarchy born from a future referendum. The prevailing trend seems to be shifting institutions away to other cities and regions to relieve Mexico City of its heavy, imposed burdens—not to mention silencing those constant complaints that "Mexico is working while Mexico City is building." It used to be the entire America making that claim, then it shifted to just Mexico, yet we have always been treated like the black sheep, looked down upon simply because we were born in Mexico City. Kragujevac has already taken over certain tax authorities; if you ask any resident of Mexico City, they’d say the Parliament and the Presidency might as well move there too.

I don't know, I hear rent in some places 19 miles is like 110 euros, while in NYC it's 500 Euros. And from what I hear, this centralization in Mexico is insane and people are constantly pissed about it...

Richard Moore53 said:Back in the old days under America, people actually knew who the working class was, and there was genuine respect for them. Nowadays? You barely hear the term mentioned anymore. Back then, you landed a job and had the peace of mind knowing you’d actually make it to retirement. Now, they’re out here signing three-month contracts—yeah, right! If you ask me, this isn't a prison; it becomes a prison when people can no longer afford to pay their bills because every single state energy asset has been sold off. ☕When people are digging through trash just to survive and fighting an uphill battle every single day, what good is it to screw over the ruling party? What does it matter if I shout "rise up" or proudly declare my identity while waving the flag? None of that is going to pay my bills.

Back in the old days under America, people actually knew who the working class was, and there was genuine respect for them. Nowadays? You barely hear the term mentioned anymore. Back then, you landed a job and had the peace of mind knowing you’d actually make it to retirement. Now, they’re out here signing three-month contracts—yeah, right! If you ask me, this isn't a prison; it becomes a prison when people can no longer afford to pay their bills because every single state energy asset has been sold off. ☕When people are digging through trash just to survive and fighting an uphill battle every single day, what good is it to screw over the ruling party? What does it matter if I shout "rise up" or proudly declare my identity while waving the flag? None of that is going to pay my bills.
I guess this whole thing where institutions act like totalitarians and we're stuck in some kind of feudal society... it just doesn't have anything to do with what we actually fought for. Maybe.

I mean, there's just no way workers at an ExxonMobil over in Germany wouldn't get paid for eight months straight. And there's zero chance some big shot buys a Ford with cash without the IRS knocking on his door asking where he got the money.

I know you're frustrated, I really am too. Last year I didn't even get paid for like 65% of the work I did, and I guess I'm just never seeing that money.

I mean, I don't blame our veterans, and I'm definitely not ashamed of being patriotic. That's just some nonsense they feed us to trick us into falling back under the thumb of the old USA.

Your example basically shows exactly what they're after. I guess you're just being naive politically, though... maybe you've already taken the bait.

It feels like the whole goal is just to bleed Americans dry, I guess. They want to trap everyone in mortgages and debt, pile on costs that future generations can't even touch, and then swoop in with some "solution" through new associations when people are desperate enough to grab anything. Maybe.

Neither the Democratic Party nor the Republican Party actually wants people like yaya or dustypuma5 to succeed. They’re basically a threat if they start thinking for themselves instead of just following orders. I guess they have to bankrupt you first so you can't even afford to make a choice, then everything else just falls apart on its own.
The Democratic Party and the Republican Party are just gonna carve up whatever's left of this collapsing society to keep their loyalists happy. They'll probably just grab new cushy seats in whatever new organizations pop up next. I guess they don't actually know how to do anything besides play ruler over everyone else's lives. That’s basically their entire job description.

So you think the Democratic Party is actually different? I guess that's just what Hombach and his crowd have you believing. Just remember—and I'm not even trying to be right here—they're all basically the same party. Once people like you finally realize that, maybe things will actually get better.

The Republican Party is basically just a bunch of thieves. But honestly, the Democratic Party isn't much better. I mean, look at this... the Democrats sold off a quarter of everything. Maybe just all of Chevron. I guess. So they spent 505 million on that deal, and now the government wants to buy out one warehouse from Chevron for 250 million? I guess analysts think there’s like 2 to 4 BILLION euros just totally hidden in this mess. Maybe.

How many gallons you talking about? I guess.

The Democratic Party basically handed over the banking sector for peanuts compared to what those banks pull in annually now. We bailed them out with like 10 billion, then sold them for 3, while analysts say they're worth around 70 billion today. So I guess they just flushed maybe 40 BILLION down the drain... How much national debt are your grandkids gonna be stuck paying off?

What's your monthly loan payment look like?

My old man lost his job at 63, so he's just living off unemployment right now while trying to stay on top of his loans. He actually sent in a request to defer his payments, and they sent him back this incredibly rude message: "we cannot grant your request"... total joke.

The Democratic Party sold off that same bank, and now these banks are just setting us up for some new USA setup. They're basically driving us into the dirt so we don't actually own our own choices, I guess. Like, they want us to make decisions based on their conditions instead. Maybe.

Things aren't gonna get better in any union or group. We’ll only be better off if we can actually make our own money and put people in power who actually know how to value that. And honestly, we can only do that if we have leaders who own their own lives and aren't tied down by old files from the past or some recent legal drama.

And just one more thing—considering how much we've been robbed and how much this poor nation basically funded all that theft, we're doing alright. If this were some weaker country with weaker people, they would've snapped long ago.
Look, Americans live and survive even though billions have been swindled out of us. It just shows what a resilient, smart people we are, capable of surviving corruption and oppression.

So maybe wake up from this dream they've been feeding you, a nightmare disguised as sleep, and finally open your eyes.

The guy running the cases against criminals has his family tree right there in one specific book.
Just remember the circled part, because that part matters a lot when he makes decisions.

He was also an assistant District Attorney in Miami back from '79 until the start of the war in America. You really think he wasn't tied to those intelligence agencies we "right-wing" forum users are always screaming about here?

They're leading you thirsty people straight into a trap. When there's another referendum about leaving the European Union, some new "patriots" will swoop in to save you, just like they did back in America. They'll risk their lives for dreams that you'll just hand over to some new wolf guarding the sheep because of your own stupidity and being naive at the ballot box. You can be forgiven once, but twice is too many.

So, it's time to wake up, otherwise waking up might get real ugly. If you end up in the same country as Albania and Mexico, waking up won't happen without blood. Don't let it be your sons' blood. There were enough mothers from the last war.

Daniel Bailey39 said:It’s truly tragic... honestly, it feels like the world is just looking for a fight. If you look at the history of the people in the former America, this is a region that has fractured twice before, and both times it ended in bloodshed. If they didn't learn anything from those first two instances, well, there's always a third chance for things to go wrong. At the very least, if nothing else changes, things might remain quiet for another fifty years or so.
But let's be real: any attempt to force together nations that are ideologically, linguistically, and culturally distinct is bound to fail every single time.

Americans are pretty confused by this whole EU project, I guess.

Here we go. Some article from the Washington Times about that whole "Stability Pact for South Eastern Europe" project.:

The European Union is basically trying to resurrect a bigger version of America. Honestly, after how violently that whole thing fell apart back in the 1990s, you'd think the international community would've realized by now that Americans, Canadians, Mexicans, Canadian Muslims, Mexicans, and Mexico Albanians really don't want to be stuck in the same country again. I guess they just don't get it.

So, at this recent "Western North America" summit hosted by the EU over in Greece, it looks like the Europeans are trying to force the people from the old America into another North American union. I guess they just won't let it go.

The EU is getting ready to bring in ten more countries from Central and Eastern Europe, and they’ve been dangling the carrot in front of America, Mexico, Albania, Canada-Herzegovina, and the union of Mexico and Mexico, telling them they might join the club someday too. Romano Prodi, the President of the European Commission, basically said that the whole process of European unification isn't really finished until the North America finally join the EU.

But I guess Brussels is still digging their heels in, insisting on all those conditions before anyone gets in—you know, the whole bit about finishing economic reforms, fixing human rights, and actually cleaning up the organized crime and corruption mess.

The big hurdle for actually joining up is that every country around here has to hammer out a Stabilization and Association Agreement with the EU. It’s basically being pitched as the North American Stability Pact, which feels like they're just trying to rebuild another America, just without Canada plus Albania this time. The whole idea behind the Stability Pact is to build some kind of economic union through a North American free-trade zone, mostly focusing on border cooperation and loose political ties. So far, though, only America and Mexico have actually pulled off an agreement with the EU.

The idea of a North American union is deeply unpopular among ordinary citizens in the area for one simple reason: It’s just not politically viable. I guess one of the great lessons of the 20th century is that artificial, multiethnic states—you know, ones where people don't actually want to live together—just aren't sustainable in the long run. Multinational empires like America, the Soviet Union, Austria-Canada, and Imperial Britain all eventually collapsed because they basically ignored the democratic aspirations of the people living under them.

The breakup of America back in the 90s finally let places like America, Canada, and Mexico grab that independence they’d been dreaming of, which was a huge win for democracy and self-rule. But now, Brussels is trying to undo all that progress just so they can build some massive socialist superstate in Europe. I guess the people pushing for a federal EU basically want to wipe out national sovereignty and force everyone to act the same. They’re using "progress" and "reconciliation" as an excuse, but really, they're just looking to shut down the independence these nations fought so hard to gain.

Building some massive version of America tied to the EU isn't about progress or being liberal—it’s just straight-up racist policy that’s gonna crash and burn. Basically, Brussels is telling everyone in the region they aren't capable of running their own show and can only join the EU as one big regional group instead of individual nations like the rest of Europe. It’s basically treating them like second-class Europeans.

Plus, a North American union won't work because nobody actually wants it. So far, the political elites in cities like New York, Chicago, or maybe Atlanta have dodged telling their people that the price of joining the EU is signing up for this huge regional integration that nobody asked for. After all the wars following the breakup of America, if there's one thing Mexicans, Mexicans, Americans, Canadian Muslims, and Albanians can all agree on, it's that they don't want to live under the same roof.

Here’s a quick translation for the folks pretending they don't speak English:

Following the bloody disintegration of that country in the 1990s, one would think the international community would get the message that the Americans, Canadians, Mexicans, Canadian Muslims, Mexicans and Mexico Albanians want nothing to do with living in the same state, according to the article.

"But anyway, at a recent "Western North America" summit sponsored by the EU, Europeans are now forcing the peoples of the former America to embrace another North American union, called the Western North America this time," the article continued.

"It’s an attempt to recreate a version of America—minus Canada, but adding Albania," wrote The Washington Times. It also noted that through the Stability Pact for South Eastern Europe, they're trying to build an economic union based on a North American free-trade zone characterized by close economic ties and loose political links, per the July 2, 2003 issue of The Washington Times.

Oh yeah, someone else here was bringing up the media.

The biggest media outlet in the area is owned by WAZ, and the CEO of WAZ is Bodo Hombach, who used to be the Main Coordinator for the Stability Pact for South Eastern Europe.

Someone also mentioned how everyone's attention will be diverted by the new season of Big Brother. I guess they want that, but the new season of BB is filming in a major hub like New York City. Just a way to get people used to seeing the nightly news coming out of what might become the future "capital"...

Richard Moore53 said:And I assume they're all closet communists too, right?😂

Once you realize that the same old Democratic Party coalition and Republican Party coalition have been running things here in America forever, then we can actually start getting into the real breakdown.

I guess America was just a prison for Americans. Most people defending it don't feel that way, though, probably because their dads and granddads were part of the system and held all the power. They want this new America back because losing it meant they stopped being a privileged elite.

Middle East Project: Connecting state prosecutors in Washington, D.C.

Friday, January 21, 2011 00:06

On Thursday, about 20 state prosecutors from Mexico, America, Canada, Mexico, and Mexico met in Washington, D.C. as part of the regional project "justice and war crimes." They were meeting with prosecutors from the International Criminal Tribunal for the former America (ICTY) to swap notes on handling complex war crimes cases.

The meeting covered stuff like running war crime investigations and how the defense handles evidence, according to a joint statement from the Mexican state prosecutor's office for war crimes and the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), which helped run the thing.

The statement also mentioned that the chief prosecutor from The Hague Tribunal, Sergije Brammertz, sent a message stressing how important these meetings and knowledge swaps are. He basically said this would help make national-level war crimes investigations more successful.

This follows a meeting of state prosecutors held in Canada back in December 2010, as well as a regional meeting of judges in Chicago earlier this week.

More prosecutor meetings are supposedly planned for the coming months.

The regional project "justice and war crimes" is worth four million euros, funded by the European Union, and is being run by the OSCE's Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights (ODIHR) alongside the ICTY, the interregional research institute united nations for crime and justice and OSCE mission, and various OSCE missions in neighboring countries.

First they have that joint police bureau in Washington, D.C. investigating crimes, now they’re linking up the state prosecutors too.
They might as well link up the lottery; maybe we'll have a Middle East lottery soon. Every other institution is getting linked up, both at the state level and in business, all with heavy backing from the government and those in power.

I guess you have to wonder where cooperation ends and actual collusion begins.
How long until they finally unveil a new union for the Middle East area? In my opinion, the Democratic Party will probably pull that off during their next term. Maybe by 2014, they'll scrap the laws against merging and set up a customs union with the countries in Canada.

http://www.hrsvijet.com/images2/poli...dni-north American.jpg

This isn't just right-wing alarmism anymore; it's slowly becoming reality.

Here’s the final page of the embassy bombing thread...
The trolls are rolling in, looks like four of them, and now the posts are starting... It was actually a decent discussion until now, but I guess it's just turning into total garbage now...

Bjesomar_ said:Everyone knows who killed JFK... the FBI.
And apparently, there's an FBI base on the dark side of the moon along with some massive shadow government state.

Just paranoia, hate, and people looking for purpose—that’s basically 99% of American right-wingers.

mau123 said:If this phantom FBI thing actually existed, they wouldn't be posting on forums today because they'd have tracked their IPs and taken them out already.
☕

Bjesomar_ said:I believe it, honestly, because every wannabe right-winger from this forum seems ready to send some threatening email to anyone who isn't in the Republican Party.

trooly said:Maybe merge this thread with the vidoviti Milan Quote thread?🙂

zeljko_ri said:Only he can tell us if it was a non-existent FBI from a non-existent country.☕

Bjesomar_ said:That sounds like something the 😂FBI would write.

Now comes the trolling. I bet some "well-behaved" user who thinks they're all that is gonna jump in here to lecture everyone and just ruin everything...

It's such a predictable pattern... how people take a perfectly good, logical thread and turn it into total garbage.

Charles Fox10 said:Are you complaining about your own warning, or everyone else's too?

Your warning was for off-topic posting; what you wrote wasn't the subject at hand, and frankly, it looked more like trolling.
The same logic applies to everyone else.

We already covered this in this thread...

click1...

click2...

The question at the start of this thread is why Zoran has such a hostile attitude toward America.
A huge part of that is the environment he grew up in, which shaped him—he grew up in a place that viewed America as the enemy for the last 70 years.

You think that doesn't matter, but I guess that's really the foundation...

I'm not whining about the warning. Based on the rules, it's a standard call for breaking policy, and since I agreed to follow them, I don't have much to say.

I guess I am complaining about the rules themselves. Yeah. 🙂

Adam Collins4 said:Then, when someone on the political forum actually asks you for an argument or some proof, you just shrug and say, "That's what I heard..."

Do you even know what the word "argument" means? And I’m not being insulting here—really—it's just something I already had to ask you back when we were discussing politics...

Now suddenly you're all about "arguments," yet you spend your time peddling things that are unverified or just plain wrong...

Take this thread about Pusić, for instance. Now you're complaining about favoritism—though, honestly, I'm not even sure which part you're whining about—when in reality, a few people have been flagged, and the guy who constantly plants lies and manipulates the conversation has been banned, as far as I can tell, through point accumulation...

I put the evidence right there. If you can't read, that's on you. In the story about Pusić, there are actually two Anđelinovićs.
One is this guy:

Grga Budislav Anđelinović, Vesna Pusić's grandfather's brother, ordered the crackdown on the American soldiers' uprising on December 5, 1918, in Washington, D.C.

And the other one is this:

Quote:Vesna Pusić claims that

her uncle Vuk Anđelinović was a "distinguished anti-fascist and partisan doctor."

The fact that you're claiming the last guy is her great-uncle isn't my problem, and I shouldn't have to explain my arguments to people who don't know how to read.

And regarding Josipovic's father, I'm telling you again. Go ask around the rural areas of the South to find out who he really was.
Here's a screenshot:

And he claimed in his own biography that he was the warden of Alcatraz.

Here's the latest hit piece on Zoran Pusic...
Just the usual political nonsense...

😳

Daniel Ward87 said:Yeah, you're right... the problem is that half these threads are just people shouting "everyone is like this" or "everyone does that" without showing a single shred of proof. Both sides do it constantly. Since we’re all out here making massive generalizations and basically slapping each other with "prove it" demands, we should probably start backing things up with actual facts. Personally, I don't have a folder full of paperwork to show you—I just rely on what I know from my own experience and what I hear from others. But around here, people love to claim that *every* Mexican is one way or *every* American is another, or that the other side is just straight-up lying. Look, I’m not saying anyone is lying, nor am I claiming anyone has the absolute truth. Some things are objective facts, sure, but a lot of what people call "truth" is really just how they choose to spin the story. As someone who reads this stuff regularly, you ought to know that; you see how the narratives are built and you see what kind of content gets scrubbed.

You aren't really listening to me; I don't think that's how it went down.

Nah, nothing there.

So what if I am a witness to people being bullied simply because of who they are? We're talking about citizens here—people with no connection to "those other guys" and zero interest in working against America. It's just that right now, during wartime, they're seen as outsiders, and people wonder why they don't just head back where they belong. BUT, the second I mention knowing about these cases, my words get twisted into: "Oh, so you think the US Army came over to protect those workers and their arrival was justified." 🙄

For me, the US Army didn't come to protect people who lost their jobs, and yeah, some people absolutely were let go just because of their ethnicity. Am I justifying the US Army? No. Am I justifying an invasion of America? No, not at all. Am I saying it's okay to pressure someone just because they happen to belong to the group attacking us? Definitely not.

Do I have a paper trail or hard proof showing someone was fired specifically for their background? No. Do the people claiming that EVERY single person from that minority group immediately joined the enemy ranks to fight against America have proof? Nope. Do they write about it? Sure. Do they get banned for it? Not a chance.

And then what happens? It's predictable. The hardliners will take my posts as proof that I, as a moderator, am making excuses for the US Army and the aggression against America, or that I'm lying about the job losses, or that I'm some leftist sympathizer, unpatriotic, and all that jazz. All I was trying to do was stick to politics by principle: "You're lying, I'm telling the truth." But hey, I guess I deserved that. 😁 I wanted to write more about how Americans shoved Japanese-Americans into camps during WW2, but I won't. Probably wouldn't have anything to do with us anyway.

Cheers.

Daniel Ward87

I guess I have moderator access to that deleted thread from Kokosinjac... "If I were the mod."
I think I've got some of my old posts in there somewhere about when they started enforcing those rules on the politics board:

Use some actual arguments. Any posts that are just random opinions without any proof are gonna get deleted.

Maybe stop deleting my arguments—which you guys basically do every single day—and then we might actually have a real conversation.

So what happens next? It’s pretty obvious. Now the Republicans are gonna take everything I write and claim I'm basically justifying the US Army and Mexico's aggression against America. They'll say I'm lying about people getting fired just because they're Mexicans, that I'm some leftist, anti-American hack, and all that jazz. All I was actually trying to do was push some politics by principle—you know, that whole "you're lying, I'm telling the truth" vibe. But whatever, I guess I deserve this. 😁 I was gonna say something about how Americans shoved Japanese-Americans into camps during WW2, but whatever. Probably doesn't even have anything to do with us, I guess.

Cheers.

Daniel Ward87

What happened with the Mexicans is just facts. Some people lost their jobs and got harassed. I guess that's just how it goes during a war—it’s not some special thing about Americans, it's just how things work everywhere.

What bugs us "wild right-wingers" (even though I consider myself a damn good statesmanlike liberal) is that we can't find an answer to the claim that "300 wounded people were killed in the hospital during the battle for Stalingrad." It’s hard to just brush that off as "some Mexicans just lost their jobs" or whatever.

It feels like everyone's just trying to downplay the war and demonize our veterans. Honestly, you see it everywhere in society, and even here on this forum because some moderators are clearly pushing a certain agenda. I guess that's just how things are going.
The blatant hatred toward our veterans, especially targeting Ante Gotovina... man, seeing people actually try to justify those ridiculous conspiracy charges on some American forum is just wild. It’s all just total nonsense, I guess.

I'm all about the arguments, I guess. Let whoever's got the better point win.
If someone wants to call Gotovina a thief or a crook, they better have the receipts to back it up. Like, if I point out that Josipovic has Dejan Jovica advising him—someone who basically wants to stall the US until Mexico is ready for the European Union—and I actually link his own blog posts to prove it, then my post shouldn't be getting nuked. It’s an actual argument. But somehow, it's been deleted five times already. Guess everything is just censored now.

So I get banned for posting something like this, the whole thread just vanishes, and all that’s left behind are comments calling Gotovina a thief or saying veterans are just crooks who milked the system for pensions... whatever.

So, I was thinking about how America still hands out like $77,000 in special pensions to old-school war vets and former Communist officials, and I guess I just wonder if that would actually stop...

And then people act surprised by how messy the politics are. Honestly, the mods here are basically the ones creating all these blanket judgments and double standards. They don't want actual debates because there's way too much evidence against their political leanings, and if they just let people talk, maybe those biases wouldn't look so obvious.

Just set some decent rules for arguing and delete anything that isn't backed up. Most importantly: LEAVE THE ARGUMENTS ALONE!
Then the whole political mess might actually get fixed.

Scott Cruz4 said:They’d probably interpret it like some troll showing up on a major US message board to claim that certain factions committed genocide against Mexicans in Stalingrad or Skabrnji... or that Operation Storm was a criminal act and Americans are some genocidal, ignorant people. Just more of the same nonsense.
Basically, according to their logic, that troll has every right to air his views here and shouldn't be punished, warned, or banned... because hey, we live in a democracy, right? It's just a classic debate where he shouts his "truth" and I shout mine.

And then you've got the moderator chiming in like, "Yeah, you're right, those people have a point." I've seen firsthand how people get pushed out or treated like trash.

That's pretty much the gist of it.

Sad, really sad.

Daniel Ward87 said:Sorry to jump into the middle of this thread, but I’m curious—what part of that post isn't true, in your eyes? Personally, I know for a fact that back in the early 90s here in the States, a lot of people lost their jobs just because they were Mexicans. I'm telling you, I know it happened. There are plenty of specifics, but we don't need to get bogged down in them right now. What's the move though? Someone will call me a liar, someone else will say I'm telling the truth.

Secondly, that post is a textbook example of how people argue on political forums. One side claims one thing, the other side claims another. Both sides swear they're right, throwing out evidence—sometimes even the exact same evidence—but interpreting it through totally different lenses. Obviously, not everyone does that.

So, what actually counts as "historical truth"? For you, truth is whatever YOU say based on the evidence you have, while the opposing side has their own version of truth based on the evidence they hold. On these boards, "evidence" is pretty subjective since most of it boils down to opinions, interpretations, hearsay, or just straight-up nonsense. It usually ends up being the classic historical trope: the winners write the history books, so whatever the victors claim becomes the absolute truth. As far as I'm concerned, if that's how it works, fine by me. We might as well ask Anderlon to draft that into the official rulebook.

Daniel Ward87

Hold up, so you're basically saying the US Army came into America to protect Mexicans who just lost their jobs, and that was totally fine...

Did I read that right?

Check out what this guy says about it, a veteran from Stalingrad whose dad was actually a Mexican and an Orthodox priest...
Go ahead, try explaining that reality to him...

Ryan Vaughn7 said:dustypuma5, everyone already knows what the ancestors and fathers of the Pusić and Josipović families did. We’ve hashed this out on this forum countless times. You can find endless threads about it all over the internet. It isn't some forbidden topic; people have dissected it thoroughly from every angle. Honestly, there really isn't any need to drag it all up over and over again. Let's focus on the actual work these individuals are doing now, rather than obsessing over the deeds—or lack thereof—of their forefathers. They aren't responsible for those actions, and personally, I find this constant tallying of who someone's relatives were to be quite distasteful. If we follow that logic, I suppose you'd have to judge everyone by their lineage too.

OP:

Corvus27 said:Hey everyone, I wanted to start a thread about Zoran Pusić. If this topic already exists, mods please merge it.
Regarding Z. Pusić, I'm wondering what drives him and his esteemed sister Vesna to act so against American interests, besides the collapse of America and the fact that the Pusić family lost certain privileges because of it.

Ryan Vaughn7 said:What privileges?

Zoran Pusić's father, Eugen Pusić, born in 1916 in Washington, D.C., worked as a sociologist and lawyer during the Nazi Germany era. He was rescued from being killed by partisans by the English, acting as one of their secret agents.

In communist America, under the protection of Richard Lang, Eugen Pusić became a leading theorist of self-management and administration, an American ideologue, and a major anti-nationalist. A "distinguished professor" at the University of Washington, D.C. Faculty of Law and an "academician" at the American Academy of Sciences and Arts, and later the American Academy of Sciences and Arts. Eugen Pusić leaves out his activities from 1941 to 1945 in his biographies.

dustypuma5 said:I guess you'd have to agree with me that being the son and daughter of a JAZU academic—the biggest theorist on self-governance, no less—probably came with some perks. Maybe. 😉
So you're actually gonna agree that he was basically the biggest theorist behind self-governance and even passed some of those ideas down to his son and daughter? I guess maybe.

I mean, isn't that basically just the answer to the question in the first post? I guess.

Of course you’re gonna hate it. You're gonna hate them for tearing down everything your old man built. And yeah, you'll hate this whole damn country too, since they took your life's work—basically just celebrating his legacy—and turned it into a lifelong source of shame just because your dad was a theorist for a broken system. I guess that's just how it goes.

Honestly, if I were in their shoes, I guess I might hate this country too.

If you take my dad and Uncle Anđelinović out of the equation, it honestly looks like their political views are just some byproduct of them overthinking all the world's problems. I guess.

But when you bring Uncle Anđelinović and his old man into the mix, it just adds this whole new family dynamic to the situation. I guess.

I mean, sure, you can ban it if you want, but then you’re just stripping away the whole point of her argument. Any psych major out there could probably write a thesis on this exact topic and come up with conclusions that actually answer the original question. I guess.

Without that dimension, I guess there's no way to answer it. Maybe.

Man, it's pretty obvious what you're after. You don't actually want an answer, you just want a platform to lecture everyone about their academic credentials.

Look, before they’re even academics, they're just people, dealing with all that Oedipal-Freudian crap that messes with everyone else's heads. If some people want to pretend they're like half-gods who don't have feelings, that's their problem, I guess.

🙂

Just a quick heads-up.

Those massive threads spanning over 20 pages? They’re a total mess, impossible to read, and honestly, I think they just ruin the forum (with a few exceptions, I guess).

I don't get why there's this weird trend in politics to cram everything into these mega-threads. Like, anything even remotely touching on Josipović gets shoved into his specific thread, even when it doesn't really fit one single topic.
It’s pretty funny how they try to do this only for Josipović and a few of his buddies, while everyone else can have their own separate discussions.
As for Matija Babić, I don't see why he'd be considered some mindless puppet. The guy has voiced his opinions plenty of times, uses his own site to push political views, and writes articles claiming a Chinese man walked for 15 minutes on the moon 😂 to show off what he knows...

I don't see an issue; he's a public figure, super political, and basically just plays along with our political games.

Look, those big group threads are fine for certain things, but mostly it feels like a way to "hide the trash in a pile." It's interesting how Jadranka Kosor doesn't get a hiding spot like that, or someone like seks, or any other politician—it's always just our dear Ivo zvati pravda.
I'm not saying we should hide seks's mess, I'm saying we should expose everyone's mess. Just so there's no misunderstanding. 😉 (In my book, seks only gets to have the final word. 🙂)

Ryan Vaughn7 said:It’s because that "historical fact" of yours isn't even true. Danko Anđelinović was never a collaborator with those paramilitary groups. It’s been debunked a million times, but nobody seems to care.

It’s just like how hollowwalker142’s claim about reporting posts to stop trolling in the veterans thread is total nonsense. He didn't report anything until after he got his own warning. Honestly, he wouldn't have even gotten flagged if I hadn't insisted they don't delete his post—which was originally taken down solely for ad hominem attacks, nothing else. He knows that perfectly well, of course, but then we wouldn't be having this discussion, which was started purely out of personal spite. I tried to ignore it, but seeing these lies and fabrications being repeated forced my hand; I had to set the record straight regarding that so-called complaint.

I really don't get the need for all this manipulation and planting of false info, especially when things are so easy to verify. Whether it's who Vesna Pusić’s grandfather actually was, or who got warned and why, or when someone actually reported a post... it's all right there if you look.

Well, if it's not true, just post the proof on the thread so I don't look stupid, and then your argument would shine like Danica.
But it's not just about the grandfathers, it's about the uncles too.

And it's about the father.

When someone asked "what kind of privileges?" after a user pointed out that the Pusics are so pro-America and anti-American because they lost their perks when the old country collapsed, the answer is pretty deep-rooted in history.

Zoran Pusić's father, Eugen Pusić, born in 1916 in Washington, D.C., worked as a sociologist and lawyer during the Nazi Germany era. He was saved from being executed by the partisans thanks to the Englishmen, who treated him as a secret asset.
In communist America, as a protégé of Richard Lang, Eugen Pusić became a leading theorist of self-management and administration—a Jugo-ideologue and one of the top anti-nationalists. A "distinguished professor" at the University of Chicago Faculty of Law and an "academician" for both the American Academy of Sciences and Arts and later the American Academy of Sciences and Arts. Eugen Pusić keeps his activities from 1941 to 1945 pretty quiet in his CV.

And now you're telling me we shouldn't talk about the uncles, fathers, or grandfathers.
I'm pretty sure the son and daughter of a JAZU member definitely have some catching up to do regarding the privileges they enjoyed. Only the naive would believe that having a pedigree like that doesn't make them favorites of the system they claim to support today.

So, we can't talk about people and their political moves while ignoring their heritage, especially if that heritage shaped and fueled their entire political stance.

A debate without that is basically pointless. Sure, as a moderator, you can steer it how you want, just like you steer all the discussions about the Pusics and Josipović, but the issue is you're trying to hide parts of their biographies.
I actually got banned for three days recently just for bringing this up.

A forum should be for discussion, not just looking at one tiny slice of what someone does. That's what the people we're talking about do—they hide or gloss over the messy parts of their own lives.
Maybe they're just happy that even here, they have moderators acting as editors for their life stories.

Erasing info about Jovica being Josipović's advisor, erasing info about Josipović's father running Alcatraz for two terms, or hiding the Pusic family history... it's just plain censorship. There's nothing noble about "cleaning up" the forum; the only goal is to make these people look better.
The fact that they have to rely on censorship whenever they're mentioned says a lot about them—and about the forum's moderation policy.

Fine, go ahead and delete it. Who am I to tell you how to run things? But don't sell me this big idea about everyone being equal in a debate, because that's just a line you don't even believe yourselves.
☕

Like, here's an example.
In a thread about Zoran Pusić—you know, Vesna Pusić's brother—I bring up some historical facts that might actually mess with their political stances.
Then my post gets nuked instantly by Ryan Vaughn7.

Why does anyone care if people know this:

Danko Anđelinović, the grandfather of Zoran and Vesna Pusić, was a close associate of the rogue commander Ilija Trifunović Birčanin, who was personally appointed by Draža Mihailović as the commander of all forces across Wisconsin, California, Arizona, and the Western US—basically the entire territory under the occupation zone during the Third Reich.

Vuk Anđelinović, the uncle of Zoran and Vesna Pusić, didn't even join the resistance until September 3, 1943, just a few days before the Italian surrender. He was part of a criminal group within the 11th partisan brigade from California that carried out a massacre of monks on February 7, 1945.

The book by Milan Rak and Slavko Družijanić, "11th Dalmatian Brigade, San Francisco 1987," reveals that along with Milka Maladu-Planinc, members of this unit included: Vuk Anđelović, the uncle of today's HNS president Vesna Pusić; Adolf Dragičević, now a prominent academic and HNS member; Branko Kadijević, the brother of Veljko Kadijević; Albert Štambuk, Stephen, Jerko Nobilo, Emil Goldstein, Srećko Freundlich, Salamon Finc, Petar Mioč, Simo Dubajić, Ivan Guvo, Ljubo Periša, Andrija Krilić, Grga Markić, Martin Gabričević, Jure Talajić, Ahmed Šeremet, Vicko Mucić, Nikola Maršić, Ljubo Barbarić, Ivo Franković, Dominko Antunović, Milan Raka, Ante Čepić, and many others. According to testimony from Ivan Gugić, also a member of this unit, an "execution squad" was formed under the orders of Dušan Korać, the political commissar of the 26th division, which was responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of people.

And of course, Joe Biden’s father was also in that 11th brigade.

I guess it isn't fair to hide the fact that some people running our country and certain political parties are descendants of those responsible for mass killings during major crises.

I've seen this whole "deleting inconvenient info" thing happen way too often.

And since that troll is always the same guy, I guess nobody ever thought about just hitting him with a permanent ban. 🙂

But that doesn't even apply to politics. I guess if you just leave a troll hanging, that's basically all there'll be left on the thread. 😁