Posts by Anonymous

Enchantress said:But honestly, what do you actually KNOW about this supposed "true nature" if you strip away everything you’ve ever read, learned, or heard from others, and if you ignore your own psychological and emotional experiences? All I’ve figured out so far is that I am (or at least it feels like 😛) constantly CONSCIOUS, and while that doesn't change, the forms themselves certainly do. As for deep, dreamless sleep—I have no clue. To me, that "state" only exists because I notice time passing on a clock or see the sun come up and go down. I remember the moment right before I drifted off and the second I woke up. I’ve never been unconscious, but I guess it’s probably similar. When you AREN'T conscious, you don't exist—but when you ARE, then you DO. For us, there is always that moment of awareness, and it is always the present. Everything else—the body, thoughts, memories, feelings, events, people, stuff—it's all fluid, unstable, in constant motion, and it doesn't always follow logical cause-and-effect rules.
I don't know anything more real than that, and I have no idea what other "true nature" is supposed to be?

I barely know anything myself, and even my little bit of insight comes from following the guidance of people who mastered this long ago.

And really, what would you know about anything if you tossed out books, mentors, TV, the internet, schools... if you had been raised among wild animals? In cases where people actually are raised that way, they live like animals, and their peak understanding is basically just figuring out how to find cover or hunt for food that day.

All our knowledge and experience are sparked by something. Why would you throw away the experiences of those who actually know what they're talking about? And why would you ignore your own lived experiences? It's like saying, "Oh, I won't bother learning how to use a grill," and then sitting down at a BBQ like an idiot without any clue how the world works.

The wisdom of those further along the path and our own personal experiences are the only things that can actually guide us.

Long live the texts, death to the platitudes! 🙂

...on average it takes about 10 hours, though she's always complaining that she could shave some time off if she could just 🙂

🙂

[Username] says:
No, I am none of those things—not nature, not illusion, not even my own mind or body. 🙂 That’s what they say, anyway. 🤣

People are talking about everything under the sun. 😁

Truth is eternal. It doesn't have a beginning or an end, and it’s completely untouched by the shifting whims of the physical world. It exists entirely outside the realm of nature and has nothing to do with the illusions of Maya.

Let it be that way.

Isn't the whole point to strip away that superficial, ever-shifting version of reality we're all forced to deal with, just so we can finally reconnect with who we actually are at our core?

But seriously, what do you actually KNOW about "true nature" if you strip away everything you’ve read, everything you’ve been taught, and everything you've heard from others? What if you set aside your own emotional baggage and psychological conditioning too? All I've managed to figure out so far is that I am—or at least, that's how it feels to me. 😛I’m always conscious. That part doesn't change, even if the way it feels shifts around. As for that whole "dreamless sleep" thing? I can't tell you anything about it. For me, that state only exists because I look at a clock and realize hours have passed, or I notice the sun has gone down and come back up. I can vividly recall the exact second before I drifted off and the moment I snapped awake. I’ve never actually been unconscious, but I assume it’s something like that. When you aren't conscious, you basically don't exist; when you are, that's when "you" are. But for us, there is always that spark of awareness, and it's always right now. Everything else—our bodies, our thoughts, memories, feelings, the people we meet, the things we own—it's all just flux. It's unstable, constantly shifting, and honestly, it rarely follows any kind of logical cause-and-effect rulebook.
I can't think of anything more authentic than this. Honestly, what other "true nature" is there supposed to be?

Look, the body is eventually going to die anyway, so why stress over it? As long as I keep it in decent shape for now, it’ll cause me fewer headaches down the road.

Sure thing. 🙂

What can we actually take away from this experience? Take dreaming, for example. Once you hit that moment of lucidity and realize you’re actually dreaming, the dream doesn't just stop—it keeps going. If you think about the other people in that dream world, from their perspective, nothing has changed; they see us exactly as we were before, just with a bit more insight. But from our side of things, we aren't just some random character in a dream anymore. We’re essentially our waking selves, just playing a different kind of game. For those who are still "asleep" in the dream, we wake up—meaning we basically exit their reality—just like they exit ours. But for us, that core consciousness remains constant; we just step out of one specific form and move on.

I’ve had a pretty much identical experience to what was described above. For me, consciousness stays exactly the same—whether I'm wide awake or deep in a dream. Even when I hit that lucid dreaming stage where I actually realize I'm dreaming, my sense of self doesn't shift at all; the only thing that changes is the perspective from which I’m viewing the dream.
I honestly can’t tell if enlightenment feels like a lucid dream. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. It might just be some profound, gut-level realization.

It's like what they say about reincarnation—it isn't about a soul jumping into a new body, but more like reading a book. The pages keep turning, but who we truly are stays the same (kind of like the reader in this analogy), untouched by the plot.

That might be true, but there's no way for us to know for sure.
We can make up all kinds of theories. For instance, I feel like death might be similar to falling into a deep sleep or a new dream—the same consciousness, just a different form. But hey, that's just me speculating.

A shift in perspective changes everything. If you take away a teenager's car, it's the end of the world to them; if it happens to you, you barely blink.

Exactly. 🙂 Ever since I wrapped my head around what I mentioned earlier—that constant state of awareness and living in the "now"—everything has shifted for me. I don't stress about finding "purpose" or searching for deeper meaning anymore. 🙂 (well, occasionally 😁 ). I think that's really the most we can do for ourselves. If something greater reveals itself, great. If not, oh well. 😛

Enchantress said:Wait, did they actually pull that off? And what does it even mean?
Take enlightened people, for instance—they didn't suddenly transform into some kind of biological superhumans. They lived out their natural lifespans, physically and mentally, just like everyone else, and eventually passed away. Sure, maybe they gained a different perspective or a deeper insight into reality, but how much does that fundamentally change the core of things? What exactly did they "break free" from?

I don't claim to know who they truly are, but this whole idea feels like we're interpreting things through our own conditioned lens.

If we look at what experience can teach us... take dreams, for example. Even when you realize you're dreaming, you're still dreaming. If you imagine those other people in the dream are distinct individuals, then from their point of view, we’re just the same as we were before, just with a little more insight. But from our perspective, we aren't quite the same as we are in the dream; we're basically our waking selves just playing a part in a game. For these "sleepers," we wake up (meaning we die to the dream world) just like they do, but the underlying consciousness remains the same—it just sheds a specific form.

Like I said, I have no clue about the specifics; I'm just trying to draw some parallels here.

It's like that saying about reincarnation: the body isn't a soul entering a vessel, it's more like reading a book. The pages turn in front of us, but who we actually are (the reader in this analogy) stays constant and untouched by the plot.

A shift in perspective is everything. If a kid has his bike taken away, it's the end of the world to him. If it happens to you, you probably won't even blink.

Or maybe it's all just a blur. 😁

Enchantress said:But you *are* nature. You *are* the illusion itself. How can you possibly be anything else? 😕

Nah, I'm not nature, I'm not the illusion, and I'm definitely not my mind or my body. 🙂 At least, that's what they say. 🤣

The truth—that eternal thing—doesn't own anything, has no end, and isn't subject to the shifts of the physical world. It’s completely detached from nature and the illusion.

Isn't the whole point to separate our true essence from this nonsensical habit of identifying with a shifting, temporary reality?

Enchantress said:Fair enough. But none of that changes the fact that you’re going to die sooner or later. 😛

The body will die eventually, so what's your point? While I've still got it, I might as well take care of it—it'll make life a lot easier.

Balkanijan Pig said:Yeah, I want control. I want to be stronger than nature, stronger than Maya. I refuse to be one of those sheep that any mental lightweight can herd around wherever they please. Or maybe you're just one of those deluded, empty souls... 🤣

Nature is our ultimate adversary; we need to conquer it.

But here's the thing—you ARE nature. You ARE Maya. How can you possibly be anything else? 😕

Of course there's a desire for control. Why would I accept my own impermanence? Is it just because it's easier than actually changing it? If people have managed to change before, why can't we? Why should we just follow the path of resistance set by Maya?

But did they actually achieve it? And what did they actually accomplish?
Take "enlightened" people, for instance—they didn't turn into superheroes. They lived out their physical and mental lifespans just like everyone else, and eventually, they died. Maybe they had a different perspective or a clearer view of reality, but what does that fundamentally change? What exactly did they free themselves from?

Sure, some people are born with one body type and others with another. But whether you're an elite NFL athlete or someone in a wheelchair, exercise is essential to living a high-quality life. Even a doctor, if they take their job seriously, will recommend a specific diet and lifestyle adjustments when you're sick. They won't tell you, "Well, your leg was amputated or you've got shingles, so just lie down and die."

That's fair. But none of that changes the fact that you’re going to die sooner or later. 😛

A Woman from Rijeka said:Lately, we keep circling back to this one topic that seems to pop up more often than not: the actual value of our hard work.
It feels like everyone expects a specialist to be an endless fountain of positivity—someone who’s always ready to listen, perform their medical duties perfectly, explain everything clearly, and answer every single random question. On top of that, you're expected to be some kind of stoic saint when a patient is being rude, aggressive, or venting frustration about something totally unrelated to you. You have to grind through roughly 70 exams or procedures a day, feeling genuine joy when a patient recovers and true heartbreak when things go south (and trust me, those emotions are very real, even if nobody believes us)... all while working for $12 standard specialist hourly rates.
What’s your take on all this?

Personally, I believe that if a doctor has a list of priorities, the relationship with the patient should sit right at the top, with everything else following after. ☕

Balkanijan Pig said:Is it like some kind of sautéed veggie medley, or maybe one of those Buddhist temple retreats?🤔

Singing his little song about Bhaja,
"I" am just dragging my ego around.
In the ashram, he lost himself to the illusion,
With a guru who's nothing more than a joke.
😲 😁 😲

Herpes said:😲 😁 👍 🙏

What are you even talking about, you scavenger? 😁

Jason Johnson4 said:BHAJA

Are we talking about bhaja, like those seasoned sautéed veggies, or that Buddhist temple in the pool?🤔

Jason Johnson4 said:Man, this whole thing feels way too much like some low-level political drama, and honestly, I can't wrap my head around it...
I just don't get how someone calling themselves a "true believer" can fail to see that everything he's bringing up—all those "supporting arguments"—is basically just fluff.

😲 😁 👍 🙏

Jason Johnson4 said:Man, this is getting way too intense for me. Seriously, I can't wrap my head around it...

I just don't get how someone claiming to be such a "guru" fails to see that everything he’s bringing up is basically just fluff—just secondary arguments used to pad his point. 😕 😢

🙂

You must have me confused with someone else.🤣

Not all women are created equal 🙂

Yeah, I want control. I want to be stronger than nature, stronger than biology itself. I refuse to be just another sheep being herded around by some mediocre idiot. Or am I supposed to be one of those mindless, empty souls 🤣

Nature is our biggest adversary—we need to overcome it.

Of course there’s a desire for control. Why would I just accept my own mortality? Is it because it's easier than actually changing things? If people have managed to change their fate before, we can too. Why settle for whatever hand we were dealt?

It's true—some people are born with certain bodies and others aren't. But whether you're an elite athlete or someone using a wheelchair, staying active is essential for a decent quality of life. Even a doctor, if they actually take their job seriously, will prescribe a specific diet when you're sick. They'll suggest exercise tailored to your situation, too. They won't just tell you, "Well, you lost a limb or you've got shingles, so just lie down and die."

Balkanijan Pig said:It’s the same with the body. If you stop working out, you’re going to lose your shape. Does that mean you shouldn't exercise? Not when you still have a physical form to manage. Once you move beyond the physical—when you're no longer tied to a body and exist only as pure consciousness, soul, or whatever term you prefer—there won't be any need for it. But as long as you inhabit and experience a body, you ought to maintain it. It’s the same deal with the mind. When you transcend thought entirely, sure, meditation might seem pointless, but even Ramani recommended it as an incredibly effective method (atma vichara) for his students. As long as the mind exists, you have to keep it sharp, otherwise, it gets sluggish.

Something just clicked for me regarding this topic:
You can strengthen your body or try to feed it better, but how much does that actually matter? I mean, we don't control our bodies through sheer willpower—we can't just command our cells to divide faster, tell our blood where to flow, or order our digestive systems to work on cue. You see people who obsess over their health and eat nothing but organic kale, yet they pass away young and sickly. Then you see others who work grueling jobs and live on junk food, yet they live to be ninety. There are endless examples of this. Genetics is the ultimate deciding factor.
So why would the mind be any different? Isn't the mind also bound by certain inherent abilities, talents, and limitations? Can we really force our minds to perform better or improve our memory just by thinking about it? Maybe the mind is just as genetically predetermined as the body, and while we can nudge it slightly, there's a ceiling. For instance, science suggests that logical intelligence is largely innate and doesn't shift much throughout life. What if most other mental traits are the same? Maybe we can only make superficial, minor adjustments, much like we do with our physical appearance?
If that's the case, what's the actual difference between living life as it is versus trying to exert this tiny, marginal influence over it? 😕 At the end of the day—after a few years or decades—neither our bodies, nor our minds, nor our personalities will even exist anymore.
And where does all this intense dissatisfaction with our own bodies and minds come from? Why strive to be "thoughtless"? Why would being void of thought be "better" than actually thinking? 😕

As I read through these various spiritual philosophies on the forum, I’m starting to feel like there’s a hidden desire for control at the core of them all. I suppose it’s just incredibly hard for humans to accept their own impermanence and constant state of flux. We look for some kind of anchor—something solid to grab onto. And the irony is, as long as we keep searching for that anchor, we find nothing. It’s only when we stop looking that we realize we're doing just fine. 🙂

Timothy Murphy7 👋

When it comes to enlightenment, I’d say I’m an agnostic. 😂

Balkanijan Pig said:If that's how it works, then fine by me.

But honestly, that’s just what happens when you first start meditating or trying to focus. It takes time and actual practice to move past that stage. In fact, it feels like your mind only starts going haywire once you actually begin doing the work. Or maybe it's not even that it "goes crazy," but rather that you finally become aware of just how restless it really is.

It’s the exact same thing as when you start a new fitness routine—your body rebels at first because it isn't used to the strain.

The mind seems to get agitated when you try to force it—basically, whenever you attempt to control your thoughts through sheer willpower. The moment you let go of that struggle, the thoughts stop being such a nuisance. They just drift in and out, flowing one after another. It’s actually pretty wild to watch how easily the mind jumps from one thing to the next. Before I realized you could just *exist* like that, 😉 I hadn't even noticed how incredible the human mind truly is. One second it's pulling up a memory from years ago, the next it's racing ahead into the future, and then it snaps back to the present. You'll be reading a book and it'll play out scenes on a mental screen, or you'll watch a movie and it practically transports you to another world... and it all happens at such an insane speed.

Karen Sanchez19 said:Hey Pigonja, you still haven't answered my main question! !!!!!!!!

How can you even tell if you aren't enlightened??

Look, if an enlightened person doesn't actually know they've reached enlightenment, then the whole concept is a myth and there's really nothing left for us to debate.😁

Karen Sanchez19 said:I’m being dead serious here😉 😉

🙂 🙂 🙂

Man, I really need to give the Enchantress a piece of my mind🙂

So, since you're already making offers... should we head to your place or mine? 😈

Balkanijan Pig said:Who is this entity that stays present while we sleep, while we dream, and even during our deepest slumber? This witness to both our mental processes and the physical world—the thing that allows us to bridge the gap between who we were ten years ago and who we are at fifty, connecting our waking life and our dreams into a single identity—that is the part of us capable of true control.

I always suspected there was a deep-seated desire for control driving all of this.😛 😁