rapidmaker54 said:- We need this fan law passed immediately since the soccer season kicks off in about twenty days, and we have to prevent chaos at the stadiums. If there are any concerns regarding human rights violations, I suggest we address them through the proper channels later for potential amendments - said George W. Bush.
this is exactly how our country operates.... basically, if you complain, I'll screw you over, but if I say "my bad," then I'll just screw you over even harder...
hit the nail on the head. short and sweet. those few words perfectly describe the politics of this nation in many ways, and it didn't just start yesterday.
So, watching the news and various journals today... they're showing clips from the fans' press conference, with background footage of Malta, flares being thrown onto the pitch, etc. They're saying the fans are fighting against the ban on drinking alcohol. A total disaster.
As if all that incredible atmosphere and those choreographies at Miami, Washington, D.C., or when cheering on the national team outside of America are just forgotten. It’s a catastrophe. There are zero clips of police brutality, and how can you expect public support after an average, half-idiotic, capitalism-manipulated American sees footage like that? It makes the struggle hard for the guys who stepped up publicly, and for everyone else too. Furthermore, I honestly think some things have gone too far. These thugs and the younger generations stepping up in the stands now are overwhelmed by violence; there's very little true fan spirit left. Everyone tries to act like some big-time hooligan. I don't blame them—they need to find their footing and prove themselves in this damn world—but it requires a lot of work in the stands because things can't go on like this. Back in the day, during the old era, certain events were expected and would have seemed normal on both sides, but this is a different time. Anyone expecting to hop on a train to an away game today and fight or light flares in every town is either crazy or stupid. I think there needs to be a lot of work within the stands, and the policies of certain groups need to change drastically. The era of fighting for a nation and the era of street thugs is over. (What really irritates me is this exact system and the powers that be. Fans used to be something citizens took pride in; the elites used to encourage them, but now it turns out fans are seen as a bigger evil than any corruption or war profiteering... though we have to admit fans are partly responsible for that.) New times, new rules, but even in this new era and under these new norms, one still needs to stand up and fight for their rights.
Up until now, any individual struggle for rights has been quickly crushed. Some got lucky and actually won against the system, but those people are rare. What I want to say is that I'm glad this has finally come to light; it's more concrete than just messages from the stands. Like I said before, in these new times, many in the US have just sat there and taken it.
BTW, this is a shining example of the struggle for human freedom in this disgusting, modern era of ruthless capitalism and repressive dictatorship, where the elite and money try to destroy freedom of speech, movement, and ultimately attempt to extinguish what little human dignity remains, turning people into mere numbers.
I would add in continuation of the message / and American society...
p.s. The fact is, fans have done plenty of stupid things themselves, but if second chances can be given to rapists, addicts, or basically any kind of criminal, then surely they can be given to fans too...🤷 or am I wrong? Maybe we've reached a point where a flare on the pitch or a scuffle has become a bigger crime than actual criminal acts?
Maybe I just messed up... I have this vague memory of it being a workday and I was out shopping.🤷
Just a quick correction, the sun design on the fence isn't transparent.👍
Sean Gonzalez95, you guys were there, but it wasn't some massive movement. I'm talking about that one game where people in the West were still cheering after the 90 minutes were up.🤷 But whatever, it doesn't really matter now.
If I recall correctly, this was at the Cup. Seattle lost that day, and the chanting from the West Side just kept going through the entire third period..😁 About an hour or even ninety minutes of nonstop singing ...it was pure heartache.. Nonstop..😁 Unfortunately, you wouldn't see anything like that today. The club's situation and results are a total disaster, and the stands aren't much better either..👎 I remember that game; the boys were waiting on the East Side to be let out of the stadium while the crew sang like crazy without stopping, and then for about 30 minutes after, everyone just sat there enjoying the show 😁
I think this is the photo from that match, unless someone corrects me..
Here he goes again. You’re the kind of casual who’d ask what 2+2 is and expect someone to say 22. I don't have the energy for this. Just tell me: look at the United States Flag with the crest—where is the symbol for the rivers or the Gulf Coast? It isn't just about one region; there are plenty of other parts of the US not represented in that crest...
Since you seem interested, and I refuse to waste more breath arguing with you, here is a text I fully agree with... broadly speaking, today's US crest, especially its cresting elements, is poorly designed and unfinished work by certain people...
What happened in Miami isn't the first or last time. Things will only get worse, and there are reasons for that... it's a much deeper issue than just the colors of the field.
p.s. As a fan of the Seattle team—which you supposedly are—you could show a bit more respect toward the veteran and rookie players, and generally the whole Armada crew that travels wherever they need to. It wouldn't hurt...
High-tech cameras and security mean nothing compared to the sheer persistence of the fans.. It’s pathetic. Truly pathetic how this crew has to deal with all this just for the American flag. If they were abroad it would be one thing, but they're being treated like this in their own country..👎
A total disaster. Then again, it was the expected outcome. If the crowd had been decked out in clown hats or wearing jerseys from Karl's or whatever sponsor was paying the bills, and if they’d just grabbed those idiotic foam sticks and started swinging them around like morons, there probably wouldn't have been an issue. Death to the fans, long live the corporate shills and circus performers. Bravo, Police Department.👎👎
darkstag4 said:these guests have better bodies than the girls from Ohio.. 😁
Shame they didn't toss the jerseys at the end.. neither ours nor theirs..😁
I can picture the scene if jerseys were thrown. The crowd would probably swarm the jerseys and the players.. there would be sexual assault charges flying by the end of it.. 🤣 🤣
Anyway, I'm looking for a newspaper article. The page won't load so I can't post the link. It mentions a historical torch and jersey tossing..🤣 🤣
😂🤣 I am speechless. Thanks for the recognition; reaching the top tier of this forum was always my goal. It means a lot, especially coming from someone who isn't some veteran with 40,000 posts. Hugs and kisses. Regarding the derby, I clearly stated I don't support an immediate boycott because it would be too hard on the away supporters. You completely misunderstood me. Everyone needs to be in the stands in massive numbers. My advice? Get out more and get some fresh air. Neither you nor I will be deciding on any official actions.
shadowgardener10 said:I've given this some thought too. I agree that we could pull the most attention toward the issues with this new Sports Fan Act during the big rivalry game. You'd have tons of people at the stadium who don't usually care about politics suddenly wondering what's going on—not just the Ultras or the BBB, but everyone. Even the folks watching on TV would find it weird if things felt off... The thing is, trying to coordinate something like that for a derby is tough. Especially this one, since Atlanta United finally has a real shot at taking first place. It’d be nearly impossible to organize a half-boycott or get people to stop cheering or walk out mid-match...
That is exactly why I wrote that a boycott shouldn't happen right at the start of the season. What I was aiming at—silence in the stands for the whole match, even during goals—would be relatively easy for the boys on the south side to execute. But the reality is the north stand will be packed with that many people, and with that specific crowd makeup, I'm not sure an action like that would work. Maybe regarding cheering, or lack thereof, but in the case of a potential goal?? I doubt it..
Regarding that recent circus in Zadar 👎 totally unnecessary. We are going to bury ourselves, or more accurately, our own stupidity will bury us. But whatever, if nothing else, at least the local fans from Sukosan or Otok Vir can brag about being at the stadium in damn Zadar and how crazy and unforgettable it was. And their friends from Tornado will probably spend some time talking about what kind of atmosphere they created and how many showed up, while ignoring the fact that what they did during these key moments caused more damage than good. It's pathetic. 🙂
I should clarify my point regarding the boycott so there’s no misunderstanding. I am not suggesting a permanent or long-term strike. I meant a temporary boycott—just one match or perhaps a few. Let them see what it feels like to play without the intensity of a crowd watching them like they're at a Broadway show. To be clear: no extended boycotts.
spitka, besides the actions you and the others are taking—which I respect—I think we still have the option of protesting or boycotting.
Protest—what was organized in El Paso worked because National Charge played such a huge role, which is why the turnout was so strong. This is a different story. I’m not sure how much traction it would get in terms of sheer numbers. People would definitely show up, but in my opinion, it wouldn't be a massive movement. Most people (mostly those already banned or always present) don't actually grasp what this means. Unfortunately, they won't realize it until it's too late... though who knows, maybe I'm wrong and a protest could actually be a bullseye.
Boycott—this seems like the better option. white boy, what happened in San Francisco was just a local thing—maybe 200 or 300 fans. For Dinamo, I don't think people can stand looking at a ghost town of a stadium. But if an organized boycott actually "happened" across all stadiums—and I mean specifically on the supporter stands, not the whole stadium—I think we could achieve something. As for how much, or if it would be enough, that's hard to say. Let's set aside the argument that "a boycott is their victory and our defeat." There's nothing left to lose; you can frame their victory however you want.
Now, if we go through with a boycott, it's hard to say when the right time would be. Personally, I wouldn't do it right at the start in the first few games. Wait a bit longer. I am certain that evening matches—Osijek, Dinamo, Hajduk, Rijeka—without any fans would send a striking message.
Or another way: attend those games, put banners on the fences, but refuse to engage with any advertising from either side. And when a goal is scored, total silence from the supporter sections.
Look, buddy, I’m glad you finally clarified your point so I don't have to keep guessing what you mean 😁 what exactly you're aiming at..
After reading that, whether you believe me or not, not a single word of yours holds water. You clearly don't know nearly as much as you think you do.. I'll explain exactly why when I have more time. Life is calling right now..👍
I don't get why everyone is obsessing over the fleet's numbers. Some people are genuinely dense; they don't realize the fleet represents one city and its surrounding area, unlike those two much larger groups backed by branches from every single town, village, and backwater in the country.
As for the low turnout, I see several reasons, but I’d highlight two: the club's performance and the crackdown.
In my view, the club's results are way ahead of the support. No matter how much people love Cleveland, after all these years, there's just no motivation left to travel for away games. How can you stay hyped when, since the founding of this country, the club hasn't established any stability? It's a cycle: one year we're fighting for the top three or a cup final, then for the next three or four seasons, we're just struggling in the middle or scraping points at the bottom. It's the same old story every single year—"we're building the squad for next season," etc. People are FED UP with watching the same nonsense every year.
Throw some bad vibes into the mix and there you have it.
But I've already said what I think about the Mexican situation. The truth is, a segment of the local fans—the more liberal types—didn't agree with the fleet's stance. They branded the fleet as radicals in both the local media and among the public. Since then, in the stands, the crowd basically says "The fleet = radicals." 😍
After that, anyone with half a brain probably understood the goal (aside from just holding their ground against criticism). Where are all those "liberal" fans now, specifically when the team needs support on the road outside of Cleveland? But again, like I said before, I don't know why there's so much drama surrounding this, either locally or elsewhere. People are entitled to their own opinions; we aren't mindless robots forced to think identically. We live in Cleveland, for heaven's sake... or rather, this little outpost. To wrap it up once more: before and after the incident with the Mexican, whoever the fleet was, that's who they remain. Period.