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2016 Monaco Grand Prix Discussion Thread

Started by swifttiger75 · · 👁 15 views · 150 replies

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Participants swifttiger75Jason Campbell70Ashley Ramirez4Linda Peterson43Douglas Roberts49Jack Kelly5gentlebear47neonfox65Raymond Ortiz89Amy Castillo4darkmarlin16graniteharbor502northerncobra31cosmiccyclist8rustyridge10analogpilot16swiftmaker12wiredscout14hiddensailor7jadeseal7Amanda KellyTyler Bennett5Drew Bennett68Timothy Castillo6 …
Grace Cruz Grace Cruz Newcomer
3 messages
joined Oct 2014
#81 ·
There is just one thing weighing on my mind. I actually went as far as sending an email to ESPN about it.

How much longer must we endure Martin Brundle? Or, as I prefer to call him, Martin Blunder.
Honestly, listening to his biased, fanboy commentary makes my blood boil. It is painfully obvious he’s enamored with Hamilton; in Blunder's eyes, Hamilton can do no wrong.

Take the Los Angeles race, for instance. Blunder placed the entirety of the blame on Rosberg for the collision. His reasoning? Apparently, Hamilton's front wing and tire were aligned with the rear of Rosberg's car, meaning Rosberg was obligated to leave him space. According to Blunder, Rosberg closed the gap too late, making him the sole culprit.

Then look at the Monaco race. Ricciardo's front wing was level with Hamilton's rear tire. By that exact same logic and set of rules, Hamilton should have yielded sufficient space to Ricciardo. Yet, we saw the same lack of space Rosberg showed previously. The only reason they didn't both crash out is because Ricciardo refused to follow the "Hamilton Method"—which is essentially: either I get my way, or we don't finish the race.
Now, suddenly, Mr. Blunder claims Hamilton had every right to squeeze Ricciardo out and that he handled it perfectly. It is fascinating how quickly the narrative shifts, but for Mr. Blunder, Hamilton is always right, regardless of the outcome.

It would be refreshing if ESPN brought in someone who actually won races in NASCAR, rather than this clown who hasn't stood on a winner's podium once in 158 career starts. At least NBC had Coulthard, a man who actually knew how to win and maintained a far more objective perspective than Mr. Blunder.

As for Hamilton's questionable driving, that has been a known issue for quite some time. To borrow an old saying: You can give a peasant a BMW, but you can't teach him how to drive it.
neonfox65 neonfox65 Regular
534 messages
joined Jun 2021
#82 ·
stormybadger8 said:Man, from what I can tell... he didn't just blow that third-place finish... Maybe they might even pull off a win... if things go their way... 🤔

You're out of your mind. According to you, Ferrari ruins his race every single time...🙂

Haven't even gotten around to watching the replay yet—but honestly, I don't think I even will...
Right from the jump, stuck behind the SC—it feels like this race is actually going to be a live one...

Yeah, I get you—if your favorite driver isn't fighting for the win right out of the gate, the whole thing just feels boring... 🙂 But my favorite guy was fighting for that win—it was such a blast to watch... 👋
Jack Kelly5 Jack Kelly5 Active Member
117 messages
joined Sep 2019
#83 ·
stormybadger8 said:From what I can gather, it’s not just that he blew his chance at third place, but maybe he even threw away a real shot at actually winning the whole thing.🤔

You really have the potential to outdo yourself.
😬
analogpilot16 analogpilot16 Member
45 messages
joined May 2010
#84 ·
Roger Wright94 said:As far as the race goes, Hamilton was basically handed that win on a silver platter. IMHO
And even when he made that driving error—he got lucky, no consequences. And honestly, it wasn't just some minor infraction either, IMHO.

Then he starts throwing himself around, jumping... just acting out. Look, winning isn't everything—especially not in Monaco—so there's no need to overdo the celebration. You should celebrate, sure, but this wasn't exactly a victory worth a massive blowout.
Though, let's be real, he does love playing the clown sometimes.

I disagree—Ham actually made a brilliant call by sticking with those rain tires while everyone else swapped to intermediates. He was running on wets on a track that was drying out, putting up competitive lap times, and managed to erase the advantage Ric built up while Ham was still stuck behind Rosberg—all with just one pit stop. Then he hammered out about 48 laps, or whatever it was, on tires that nobody else wanted to touch. You have to read the race perfectly to play your cards like that.
So, I don't think his win was a handout; I'm 100% certain nobody else in his position could have pulled off a drive like that yesterday.
stormybadger8 stormybadger8 Veteran
1.8K messages
joined Apr 2013
#85 ·
Hold up...
Ricciardo can cry all he wants, but let's be real: he didn't even put up a decent fight against Hamilton...

Then again, Hamilton definitely wouldn't have been sitting there letting him hang around back there...
They either would've collided or Hamilton would've just blown past him on the track, but there's no way Ricciardo was winning this one, regardless of pit strategy.
stormybadger8 stormybadger8 Veteran
1.8K messages
joined Apr 2013
#86 ·
neonfox65 said:You're out of your mind. According to you, Ferrari ruins his race every single time.🙂

I told you Ferrari screwed him. 🤔
Ferrari tactics aren't actually the villain this time around... at least not regarding that first pit stop. Sure, they could've jumped on Perez earlier to catch him off guard, but honestly? Taking that risk would’ve probably been a disaster. Can't really blame them for playing it safe.

If anyone's to blame, it’s Vettel. He should've dealt with Massa immediately during that first pit stop. Honestly, I doubt Massa would have even put up a fight if Vettel had just forced the issue.

neonfox65 said:Yeah, I get you. If your golden boy isn't fighting for the win, the whole thing just feels boring. 🙂 But my guy was fighting for that win, and honestly? I was glued to the screen. 👋

What’s even the point of watching NASCAR if you're just staring at those obnoxious yellow flags, VSCs, and an SC right at the start? 😍

Jack Kelly5 said:You’re actually capable of outdoing yourself.
😬

Why? 🤷
It’s not like he had zero chance. He was leading during the intervals, and it's obvious Ferrari had the pace.
Dammit, if he’d just cleared out Massa, Rosberg, and those other snails at full tilt, he would've been glued to Hamilton's bumper and already passed Ricciardo before the guy even hit the pits on fresh tires.
Just look at the pace Ricc was pulling on those fresh intermediates. He caught up to Hamilton so fast, and he didn't even have to brake like Massa did.
I can't believe I'm actually looking at this. Just a link to some mess about Ricciardo. Honestly, my brain hurts just thinking about it.
mellowtiger83 mellowtiger83 Regular
466 messages
joined Aug 2014
#87 ·
stormybadger8 said:I missed the race because my house was packed with guests.🙂
But I was tucked away somewhere tracking the live commentary.😬
From what I gathered, he didn't just blow his chance at third; he likely threw away a genuine shot at winning.🤔

Anyway, he claims the issue was where he passed Massa and blames himself rather than the strategy.

I haven't gotten around to watching the replay yet, though I probably won't...
even right from the restart behind the SC, it seemed like a lively race so far.

A quick observation:
http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?p...Felipe%20Massa
It's evident that once Massa cleared out, he became significantly faster—about 6 or 7 seconds per lap faster. The question remains how much of that was due to Massa moving, and how much was simply better track conditions.

Regardless, compared to Hamilton...
http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?p...wis%20Hamilton
he actually lost about 15 seconds during that specific stretch behind Massa, which ultimately resulted in a larger gap than what he was trailing by at the end of the race.

You seem to have missed something. Vettel had a smaller gap to close after Massa until the end of the race, but don't forget that after switching to ultrasofts, Hamilton drove extremely slowly on several occasions because he was worried about tire degradation. He knew Ricciardo wouldn't be able to catch him, so he exploited that, aggressively accelerating and then dropping his pace at certain points. Perez was sitting around 7 seconds, then Hamilton would surge and push that up to 12 seconds over a few laps, repeating this pattern several times.

He was controlling the pace ahead because he knew he was going to finish on those tires. If he had planned to pit, he would have tried to go wild on faster rubber to pull away from Ricciardo.

To be clear, Ricciardo deserved the win. Hamilton faltered in those opening laps when Ricciardo pulled away from Nico.

By the way, Nico stated quite simply that he just didn't trust the car; he didn't dare push any harder.

Essentially, Hamilton was the only one with Ricciardo's pace; in terms of Race pace, he was actually faster. However, he opted for a strategy that both Jason Campbell70 and I thought was madness. Neither of us could have imagined the ultrasofts would last that many laps—honestly, even Hamilton probably didn't dream it. That’s why he drove so incredibly slow; Ricciardo nearly capitalized on it a few times.

That is precisely why Vettel managed to close the gap.
swifttiger75 swifttiger75 Active MemberOP
179 messages
joined Nov 2013
#88 ·
It’s hard to simplify how you're reading the situation. The race pace was all over the place—constant fluctuations thanks to way too many yellow flags in certain sectors, not to mention the VSC issues.
stormybadger8 stormybadger8 Veteran
1.8K messages
joined Apr 2013
#89 ·
The ultra soft doesn't even matter in the Vettel story. What matters is the intermediate vs. wet tire situation right when Vettel switched to inters... and then he got stuck behind Massa 😵
If he had just cleared Massa immediately (which he almost did after exiting the tunnel, but then messed up the chicane and had to give the spot back)
then he would've been dropping 2 seconds or more per lap on Hamilton and the others out on wets without breaking a sweat...
And get this—the gap between Hamilton and Vettel was 18 seconds when Vettel pitted, meaning Hamilton would have had a hell of a time pitting and coming back out ahead of him...
But if Vettel had started cranking out those fast laps, the whole race would've looked totally different. The Bear would probably have jumped on him to cover, and Red Bull would've done an emergency switch to inters too...
In the end, Vettel went for the inters specifically to undercut Hamilton and Rosberg, but before that, he was just stuck in a train behind them...
That’s exactly why they told Rosberg to move out of Hamilton's way—to make sure Vettel didn't overtake both of them because Rosberg was being too slow...

If I remember correctly, ESPN said his race engineer made the call on the ultra soft, not him 🤔
From what I recall, they said he calculated the tires would last at least 50% longer since they'd be driving at least 25% slower and the temperatures were way lower...
mellowtiger83 mellowtiger83 Regular
466 messages
joined Aug 2014
#90 ·
swifttiger75 said:It’s difficult to simplify things quite as easily as you seem to be suggesting. The race pace fluctuated constantly due to an excessive number of yellow flags in certain sectors, not to mention the VSC.

There isn't even any rhetoric involved here; it was crystal clear that Hamilton was intentionally driving much slower than his actual capability. It was plainly visible. Ultimately, Mercedes confirmed it themselves—this wasn't about pushing the limit, it was pure tire management and control.

He was only able to pull that off because overtaking opportunities are practically non-existent here. In Canada, for example, he wouldn't have stood a chance at doing that; this specific track simply allowed it.

Let’s be realistic: the only reason Perez had such a small gap at the end was because of those circumstances. In reality, Mercedes and Red Bull are at least 20 seconds ahead. At least.
Jason Campbell70 Jason Campbell70 Veteran
1K messages
joined Jun 2017
#91 ·
mellowtiger83 said:Essentially, Hamilton was the only one with Ricciardo's pace. He actually had more speed in terms of Race pace, but he opted for a strategy that both I and Jason Campbell70 thought was insane. We couldn't have imagined those ultrasofts would last that many laps—probably not even Hamilton himself dreamed of it. That’s why he was driving so incredibly slow; Ricciardo almost capitalized on it a few times.

Hamilton was driving slow?
Hamilton was dropping fastest laps on an ultrasoft that was over 20 laps old, eventually clocking the fastest lap of the race at the very end.
He probably pulled a two-second gap just to let Ricciardo try to respond.

It's pretty much what Rossi likes to do in MotoGP, except Rossi does it when he's chasing someone down.

And considering the pace he was hitting at the finish, those ultrasofts still had plenty of life left in them.
Interesting, because if we were at Barcelona, after five laps that same ultrasoft wouldn't be garbage; it would be the reason you lose several seconds per lap.

With all that in mind, I'm still more fascinated by what Lewis managed to pull off on a full wet track.
swifttiger75 swifttiger75 Active MemberOP
179 messages
joined Nov 2013
#92 ·
mellowtiger83 said:There’s no debating this—it was obvious. Hamilton was intentionally driving way slower than he actually could have. It was crystal clear. In the end, Mercedes confirmed it themselves—he wasn't pushing for pace, he was just managing the situation and saving his tires.

Jason Campbell70 said:Hamilton driving slow?
Hamilton was out there absolutely shredding it—running fastest laps on those old ultrasoft tires for over 20 laps—before ultimately snatching the fastest lap of the race at the very end.
He’d drop two seconds—then just leave it to Ricciardo to handle the comeback.

Nothing else to add.
Timothy Castillo6 Timothy Castillo6 Active Member
148 messages
joined Apr 2010
#93 ·
Jerry Moore61 said:There’s just one thing on my mind, and I actually went out of my way to shoot an email over to ESPN about it.

How much longer are we supposed to sit here and deal with Martin Brundle, the guy everyone else knows as Martin Blunder...

I remember tearing people apart like this a few years back, and man, did they come for me immediately. That's just how this works. 🤷
mellowtiger83 mellowtiger83 Regular
466 messages
joined Aug 2014
#94 ·
Jason Campbell70 said:Hamilton was driving slow?
Hamilton was putting down fastest laps on a twenty-something lap old ultrasoft, eventually securing the fastest lap of the race.
He would have pushed two seconds further, then left Ricciardo to respond.

It is somewhat akin to what Rossi prefers doing in MotoGP, except Rossi does it when he is trailing someone.

And given the pace he maintained at the end, that ultrasoft tire had plenty of life left in it for quite a few more laps.
It is curious. If this were, say, Barcelona, after five laps that ultrasoft wouldn't be garbage; it would be the reason for losing several seconds per lap.

With all that in mind, I am still more fascinated by what Lewis achieved on the full wets.

I maintain my stance that Hamilton drove extremely slowly on several occasions quite intentionally; even you noted this in your live posts during the race.

Hamilton accelerated a few times simply to shake Ricciardo off his back, spooked by previous experience with Ricciardo's attacks. The fact that he clocked the fastest lap in those moments signifies nothing, because he would slow down immediately afterward. He was driving significantly slower than his true potential. It was quite obvious.
Jason Campbell70 Jason Campbell70 Veteran
1K messages
joined Jun 2017
#95 ·
mellowtiger83 said:I’m sticking to my guns here: Hamilton was driving incredibly slow at several points on purpose. Even you noticed it in your live updates during the race.

Hamilton only sped up occasionally just to shake Ricciardo off his tail, likely because he'd learned from previous encounters with Ricciardo's aggressive moves. Just because he clocked a fastest lap in those moments doesn't prove anything. He would just slow right back down immediately after. It’s obvious—he was driving way below his actual potential.

Essentially, Hamilton was in total control of the race.

Exactly what I’ve been saying.
jadeseal7 jadeseal7 Active Member
169 messages
joined Dec 2013
#96 ·
Jason Campbell70 said:So, Hamilton was essentially running the whole show out there.

That’s exactly my point—I couldn't agree more.

He had things so tightly under control that if it weren't for that messy pit stop situation with Red Bull, he would have cruised straight into second place.☕
Jason Campbell70 Jason Campbell70 Veteran
1K messages
joined Jun 2017
#97 ·
jadeseal7 said:He managed things so tightly that if there hadn't been that Red Bull blunder during the pit stops, he would have finished second.☕

We're talking about controlling the race once those pit stops are out of the way.☕
neonfox65 neonfox65 Regular
534 messages
joined Jun 2021
#98 ·
stormybadger8 said:Hold on...
Rick can cry all he wants—but let’s be real, he didn't even put up a legitimate challenge against Lewis Hamilton...

🙂

Did you even watch the race? Seriously... That first attack from Rick before he pitted was insane—he put in a massive in-lap on those intermediates. Even Christian Horner mentioned how incredible it was. The tires were about 10 seconds behind, yet he came out of the pits almost neck-and-neck with Lewis Hamilton. That just shows you how fast that in-lap actually was... Absolutely incredible! The second attack happened right after he came out of the tunnel—Lewis Hamilton was being so aggressive with his defense there. They both could've completely wrecked each other if Rick hadn't backed off the gas just a bit...

On the other hand, there's no way Lewis Hamilton would be chasing him down...
Either they would've collided or Lewis Hamilton would've just blown past him on the track—but honestly, Rick would’ve pulled off the win regardless of when he hit the pits...

Is this like 2015 all over again...?
jadeseal7 jadeseal7 Active Member
169 messages
joined Dec 2013
#99 ·
Jason Campbell70 said:We're really talking about managing the race once those key pit stops have gone down. ☕

It’s definitely a tough gig out there in Las Vegas ☕
Jason Campbell70 Jason Campbell70 Veteran
1K messages
joined Jun 2017
#100 ·
jadeseal7 said:It's a tough gig working in Monaco, anyway. ☕

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