Proposal to abolish PDF PŽK

I voted for the moderator option because the author treated us like absolute garbage, just dividing us up like we're nothing but cattle.😍

Why? Because the complaint subforum is completely useless. In some desperate attempt to please everyone and act like they’re all about being super-democratic, the admins opened up "complaints and grievances" and a "banned users corner" (which has been around forever). Now that move is coming back to haunt them every single day. In their pathetic rush to be "fair" and "democratic," those two subforums turned into a playground for idiots, and honestly, the site feels way less fair than it did before they even existed.

Major props to anyone standing up against injustice—I've been there myself, playing the black sheep among the mods more than once—but let's be real: over 90% of the complaints (maybe even more😉) are a total joke. Before a thread even gets locked or someone gets handed a few warnings, it turns into a complete farce, like a bad comedy sketch. You want proof? Just ask me. I can pull up 15 ridiculous examples in fifteen minutes, though the most insane ones usually get deleted first.😢

I don't know if you guys have checked out anything besides Reddit, but I have, and I haven't found anything anywhere else even close to this mess. No endless warnings, no other nonsense. Users should act like users, mods should mod, and if someone goes too far, give them a warning—if they keep acting up, just ban them for good and move on. It shouldn't be a circus. There shouldn't be petitions, comedies, or tragedies; there's nothing like what's happening here. Justice is five times more effective elsewhere, so you decide. You think I'm full of it? Go ahead, look around for yourselves.😉

Well, the massive, glaring issue with this Reddit community is the inconsistency; some people are allowed to get away with absolutely anything, while others face the hammer for the slightest slip-up. It’s purely selective enforcement...
The second hurdle is the lack of cohesion between the different subreddits, which creates total confusion for those of us who jump between multiple boards on a daily basis.

You hit the nail on the head regarding the other forums; most of them maintain uniform rules across the board, which makes the moderation process much more streamlined and logical.

And thirdly, let’s be honest—this isn't a democracy. For anyone looking in from the outside, it’s nothing more than an illusion of one, a sort of Potemkin village, if you will...

As for the influx of foolish complaints, that part is obvious... you reap what you sow, and the quality of the grievances is a direct reflection of the users making them.

feraltrucker5 said:You have no idea what you're even talking about.☕ Moderators make mistakes—they often admit to them, too—and the admins step in to fix things. A lot of those pathetic complaints from trolls sent to the FBI usually don't even tell half the story, so it becomes easy to just assume the poor forum user is right and the admins and moderators are the villains in this whole saga.

This forum serves its purpose, and there's really no need to tear it down.☕

I haven't seen this side of the argument before...
So, you were mentioning that closed-off section where moderator errors get corrected..
I seem to remember a suggestion once about having an admin serve as a mod for the FBI stuff. Wouldn't that be more transparent?

And please, don't start dumping a hundred links here to stupid complaints; it's not up for debate that there are plenty of dumb ones out there.
What *is* debatable is why that one smart person is being labeled as stupid.
Besides, nobody is actually attacking the mods. I always say I admire the people who spend hours cleaning up trash and dealing with people on some random forum, all for absolutely zero pay...
If someone files a complaint, it doesn't necessarily mean they're targeting the mods or the admins, even if that's how you guys choose to perceive it. And honestly, it's funny how there are always five fellow mods ready to jump in and defend their own..
It reminds me of that old trope about politicians—when a doctor, a professor, or a judge gets busted for taking bribes, the first thing one of their colleagues says is: "Well, we should mention that the vast majority of doctors do their jobs honorably..."
😁

Just a few questions:
- Have you mods ever actually asked why the forum is unavailable in that closed-off corner of yours?
- Do you really think it's not a loss that the forum lost several members who actually knew how to write great posts (we can all think of someone)
- Do you honestly think it's okay that every fifteen days we have a complaint, like against unknown, regarding people being treated unfairly, and not a single admin responds to any of them? You've even got one active right now.
- Are actual, sensible forum complaints even discussed in that private little corner of yours?
- Can someone provide a list of topics from that private section...
You don't need to post the full threads, just a list of the topics...

I think it's pretty ridiculous that you're jumping in to defend everyone when nobody attacked the moderators. We're just attacking the idea that moderators and admins are flawless, perfect beings.

If you're defending that notion, then I don't think there's a problem with this thread, and it's definitely justified.

But, if we look at everything through the lens of this being a private forum where the mods live by two rules:
1. I am always right.
2. When I'm not right, Rule 1 still applies.

Then we arrive at the point where this thread becomes "problematic." But with that logic, the FBI section becomes problematic too, because it just becomes a place where fools—who have this illusion they can actually change anything—go to file complaints. Even though, well, fools have a right to the truth. Just tell people straight up: your complaints are useless, and then there will be way fewer problems.
We'll all know where we stand, and then things will be much clearer.

boldhound8 said:I voted for the moderator option because the author treated us like absolute garbage, just dividing us up like we're nothing but cattle.😍

Why? Because the complaint subforum is completely useless. In some desperate attempt to please everyone and act like they’re all about being super-democratic, the admins opened up "complaints and grievances" and a "banned users corner" (which has been around forever). Now that move is coming back to haunt them every single day. In their pathetic rush to be "fair" and "democratic," those two subforums turned into a playground for idiots, and honestly, the site feels way less fair than it did before they even existed.

Major props to anyone standing up against injustice—I've been there myself, playing the black sheep among the mods more than once—but let's be real: over 90% of the complaints (maybe even more😉) are a total joke. Before a thread even gets locked or someone gets handed a few warnings, it turns into a complete farce, like a bad comedy sketch. You want proof? Just ask me. I can pull up 15 ridiculous examples in fifteen minutes, though the most insane ones usually get deleted first.😢

I don't know if you guys have checked out anything besides Reddit, but I have, and I haven't found anything anywhere else even close to this mess. No endless warnings, no other nonsense. Users should act like users, mods should mod, and if someone goes too far, give them a warning—if they keep acting up, just ban them for good and move on. It shouldn't be a circus. There shouldn't be petitions, comedies, or tragedies; there's nothing like what's happening here. Justice is five times more effective elsewhere, so you decide. You think I'm full of it? Go ahead, look around for yourselves.😉

Just opening up a complaint book doesn't prove you're democratic. Someone actually needs to sit down, read through them, and deal with what’s being reported.

boldhound8 said:I voted for the moderator option because the author treated us like absolute garbage, just dividing us up like we're nothing but cattle.😍

Why? Because the complaint subforum is completely useless. In some desperate attempt to please everyone and act like they’re all about being super-democratic, the admins opened up "complaints and grievances" and a "banned users corner" (which has been around forever). Now that move is coming back to haunt them every single day. In their pathetic rush to be "fair" and "democratic," those two subforums turned into a playground for idiots, and honestly, the site feels way less fair than it did before they even existed.

Major props to anyone standing up against injustice—I've been there myself, playing the black sheep among the mods more than once—but let's be real: over 90% of the complaints (maybe even more😉) are a total joke. Before a thread even gets locked or someone gets handed a few warnings, it turns into a complete farce, like a bad comedy sketch. You want proof? Just ask me. I can pull up 15 ridiculous examples in fifteen minutes, though the most insane ones usually get deleted first.😢

I don't know if you guys have checked out anything besides Reddit, but I have, and I haven't found anything anywhere else even close to this mess. No endless warnings, no other nonsense. Users should act like users, mods should mod, and if someone goes too far, give them a warning—if they keep acting up, just ban them for good and move on. It shouldn't be a circus. There shouldn't be petitions, comedies, or tragedies; there's nothing like what's happening here. Justice is five times more effective elsewhere, so you decide. You think I'm full of it? Go ahead, look around for yourselves.😉

Even if 90% of the complaints are a circus, that doesn't mean we should ignore the rest. You want links?

Sandra Parker3 said:Just opening up a complaint book doesn't prove you're democratic. Someone actually needs to sit down, read through them, and deal with what’s being reported.

Even if 90% of the complaints are a circus, that doesn't mean we should ignore the rest. You want links?

I'm with you on that.

Sandra Parker3 said:Just opening up a complaint book doesn't prove you're democratic. Someone actually needs to sit down, read through them, and deal with what’s being reported.

Even if 90% of the complaints are a circus, that doesn't mean we should ignore the rest. You want links?

Look, 90% of this place is a total joke. The remaining 10% is actually decent, and that’s what we need to focus on fixing. The real issue is when an entire subforum gains a reputation for being nothing but a circus. When nine out of ten threads are just mindless trolling, people stop showing up. It becomes a complete disaster. And don't get it twisted—I'm not making excuses for the irresponsible moderators here. They should be stepping up regardless, because keeping things under control is literally their job. I'm just calling it like I see it.

That’s exactly why I think we'd be better off without him. Honestly, those tiny amounts of complaints—like 10% or less—are incredibly easy to handle directly with the Prime Minister or through some other way of just talking it out. It's not that deep.🙂

Andrew Sanchez572 said:Well, the massive, glaring issue with this Reddit community is the inconsistency; some people are allowed to get away with absolutely anything, while others face the hammer for the slightest slip-up. It’s purely selective enforcement...
The second hurdle is the lack of cohesion between the different subreddits, which creates total confusion for those of us who jump between multiple boards on a daily basis.

You hit the nail on the head regarding the other forums; most of them maintain uniform rules across the board, which makes the moderation process much more streamlined and logical.

And thirdly, let’s be honest—this isn't a democracy. For anyone looking in from the outside, it’s nothing more than an illusion of one, a sort of Potemkin village, if you will...

As for the influx of foolish complaints, that part is obvious... you reap what you sow, and the quality of the grievances is a direct reflection of the users making them.

Everything said here holds water.

Donald Trump:

I saw it, I really did.
And frankly, that’s a much fairer way to handle things—not pretending to be something you're not.
(I actually provided a link to some legitimate, unresolved appeals—so go ahead, feel free to weigh in on those.
I have zero doubt you could pull a dozen ridiculous grievances out of your hat if you tried.
I'm not arguing that they don't exist.

But what's problematic is when mods only react to the nonsense while ignoring the actual, well-reasoned arguments.
It really makes you think the mods are just playing games—if they're only ever responding to things that are laughably stupid.

boldhound8 said:I'm with you on that.

Look, 90% of this place is a total joke. The remaining 10% is actually decent, and that’s what we need to focus on fixing. The real issue is when an entire subforum gains a reputation for being nothing but a circus. When nine out of ten threads are just mindless trolling, people stop showing up. It becomes a complete disaster. And don't get it twisted—I'm not making excuses for the irresponsible moderators here. They should be stepping up regardless, because keeping things under control is literally their job. I'm just calling it like I see it.

That’s exactly why I think we'd be better off without him. Honestly, those tiny amounts of complaints—like 10% or less—are incredibly easy to handle directly with the Prime Minister or through some other way of just talking it out. It's not that deep.🙂

That just doesn't hold water.

If that were true, we wouldn't have that 10% of justified, well-argued cases that currently go completely ignored.

boldhound8 said:I'm with you on that.

Look, 90% of this place is a total joke. The remaining 10% is actually decent, and that’s what we need to focus on fixing. The real issue is when an entire subforum gains a reputation for being nothing but a circus. When nine out of ten threads are just mindless trolling, people stop showing up. It becomes a complete disaster. And don't get it twisted—I'm not making excuses for the irresponsible moderators here. They should be stepping up regardless, because keeping things under control is literally their job. I'm just calling it like I see it.

That’s exactly why I think we'd be better off without him. Honestly, those tiny amounts of complaints—like 10% or less—are incredibly easy to handle directly with the Prime Minister or through some other way of just talking it out. It's not that deep.🙂

Haha, Donald... if that were actually possible, people wouldn't be posting here. In fact, we wouldn't even have that 10% of valid or at least argued complaints, because:

either they would be handled without this PDF entirely
or they would be settled right here

get my point? When there's actual will, the venue doesn't matter.

darkseal15 said:Everything said here holds water.

Donald Trump:

I saw it, I really did.
And frankly, that’s a much fairer way to handle things—not pretending to be something you're not.
(I actually provided a link to some legitimate, unresolved appeals—so go ahead, feel free to weigh in on those.
I have zero doubt you could pull a dozen ridiculous grievances out of your hat if you tried.
I'm not arguing that they don't exist.

But what's problematic is when mods only react to the nonsense while ignoring the actual, well-reasoned arguments.
It really makes you think the mods are just playing games—if they're only ever responding to things that are laughably stupid.

I can't, and I freaking won't.🙂
Believe it or not, I’m just one tiny little moderator—one out of over a hundred.😉Look, I just moderate the Internet and Soccer forums, nothing more, nothing less. And while we're at it, let me add something to my bio: I’m not even listed on the moderator list. Honestly, the reason why doesn't matter to you, but the bottom line is that I don't attend those "staff meetings." I'm not making big decisions, I'm not voting, and I'm not doing anything other than running those two specific boards. Basically, I'm not some expert qualified to chime in or comment on stuff that has zero to do with me—especially when I don't have a clue what's even going on. Now, I'm not saying there aren't legitimate complaints out there, but let's be real: 90% of this forum is just pure, unadulterated trolling. It serves absolutely no intelligent purpose. If anything, it’s just toxic. It hurts "you," it hurts "us," it hurts everyone. Period.😉

And yeah, I think you guys totally misread why I even showed up here. I didn't come here to play some fake "opposition" role or get into endless shouting matches with you people. I’m not here to play bodyguard for the moderators or talk trash about everyone else just for the hell of it. No. I came here to state my piece and leave it at that. I have zero interest in starting a fight or dragging out some massive showdown. Users vs. Mods. It’s the same old story, isn't it? Every single time.Honestly, I'm way past all that. It just doesn't move me anymore.😉
If you’ve got a specific question or a legit grievance regarding my account, come talk to me right here. Otherwise, just pretend I don't even exist...

Look, everything's fine,
I honestly wasn't sure who was who here—I actually thought you were one of those higher-ups running the show.

No biggie. 👍

He’s basically acting like some high-ranking official without even having a wallet, always hanging around the users more than the actual staff themselves...
😁

I don't have much experience with the FBI, but I read up on them often—plus the ban list, just for kicks 🤣. From what I've seen, the complaints are occasionally actually solid, so there’s no point in clinging to this illusion ☕

I didn't cast a vote for either side
Since there seems to be some confusion floating around here, let me clear things up:
It isn't my place to act as a judge on whether a moderator’s decision was right or wrong,
but what I actually do—and try to do—is attempt to maintain some semblance of order around here, which, frankly, is a massive uphill battle given how many people show up already seeing red and completely frustrated.
Now, look, I get it; I can empathize with that frustration, but being upset doesn't give anyone a free pass to use certain language or behave poorly, and more often than not, that kind of attitude just works against the very thing they're trying to achieve.
Furthermore, I frequently send private messages to alert the mods or admins to specific issues, but at the end of the day, I have zero control over whether any of them decide to step up and address it publicly.
I hope people understand what I mean when I say that everyone is most sensitive about their own skin; the same goes for us users, and even for me—we tend to get most agitated by things that affect us personally, and we frequently find ourselves stuck in a situation where we're being subjective and viewing problems strictly through our own lens.
If you want proof, just look at how often former users, once they become moderators, find themselves facing the exact same criticisms they used to dish out when they were just regular members.
What really bothers me is this growing sense of "sides" being formed, rather than all of us working together toward the common goal of making this community—the one we've all made our home—better and higher quality.
As users, we read threads and reply to posts purely based on our own interests.
But as moderators, we have a responsibility to read everything and try our best to remain objective, and honestly, it can be exhausting when you feel like someone is going to start a complaint thread and demand a public explanation for every single move you make.
At the end of the day, we're only human, and mistakes happen; besides, let's be real, there's always a subset of people who find it fun to dance right on the edge and play games with the rules and the spirit of a subforum, much like how we all love searching for and exploiting loopholes in the law.
🙂

Haven't voted for any option yet, just wanted to make a point. http://www.reddit.com/r/example_thread. Check out the language and the attitude people use when they "appeal" on this sub. Some say 90% of these complaints are legit, while others think it’s all just pure trolling and nonsense meant to annoy or confuse the mods... maybe we should just bait them into making an obvious mistake instead.
The issues stem from a few things:

a) It’s always more or less the same crowd complaining. Just the usual types who love to whine regardless of whether it actually makes sense.
b) A lot of people complain simply because they have a personal grudge against certain moderators and want them gone. They'll go out of their way to pick fights in subforums run by mods they don't like. Basically, they're just "stalking" a mod they can't stand.
c) You've got the clones, spammers, and trolls who just want to stir up chaos because they live for the drama.
d) Then there are those who are actually right, but they don't know how to handle an appeal. Instead of being reasonable, they come at the mods with this aggressive, negative energy that totally backfires. No chance of getting a penalty lifted—they usually just end up getting hit with another one.
e) There’s also that group—let's call them "the bystanders"—who don't even file complaints themselves but show up in every single argument, automatically siding against the mods for basically no reason.
f) The FBI section consists of Messages, Wishes, Comments plus three separate sub-sections (Congratulations, Complaints and Grievances, Banned Corner). Obviously, Congratulations gets zero traffic, and while the FBI section sounds positive based on its title, once you actually click it on the Reddit main page, you realize it's a total nightmare.

Here are the "wishes": http://www.reddit.com/r/wish1, http://www.reddit.com/r/wish2, http://www.reddit.com/r/wish3, http://www.reddit.com/r/wish4, http://www.reddit.com/r/wish5

🤣

Should I keep posting the other three hundred wishes or what?

Think I've said enough... 🙂

Yeah, you could drag stuff like this out until the day after tomorrow...
But look, if five different people complain about the exact same behavior within three months—unless they're all in some weird conspiracy together—there's a massive chance that specific behavior actually exists...
Or maybe it's just a coincidence. I mean, I believe in coincidences, but I don't believe they happen by accident....

Here’s an example:
Topic 1

Topic 2

User comment on Topic 2

Another user's comment on the same topic

Response from a respected moderator....

And not a single admin showed up for any of these complaints to say, "Hey, maybe something isn't right here..."
And sorry for dragging up something that actually hurt my feelings and making me sound biased (and petty 😁), but everyone scratches where it itches, and honestly, I haven't been following the FBI lately so I don't have a bigger sample size to work with...

EDIT: I think I need to post this too...
When this happens, things go totally sideways and the mods are forced to hand out permanent bans...

Rachel Sanchez11 said:I don't think it was a coincidence before, either.

Dammit, we have a pattern here...

Am I being too quick to accuse? Well, what's the other side of the story? I haven't heard it yet, at least not with any actual arguments. It's just like when you shut down my laptop because you didn't have a real point, instead just rambling about domestic vs. international law and whatever else you throw in regarding "quality debate."

I'm laying out my arguments which show that three hours after our argument, you issued a warning under my post and then edited my post (without even trying to reach out via DM or a post to discuss changes—I mean, you have the right to do that, but usually, you ask the creator to edit the post, like how Dedy used to do it).

And your response to that is just, "No, you're imagining things."
So, I read the law quite often (I don't write it, that's probably my only post involving legal stuff, maybe my only one), but I have never seen anyone pull a move like yours.

Hm, a coincidence?
Hm, I don't think so...
You were probably expecting me to rebel there, which would have led to a flood of posts that would be flagged as OT or spam, making you the winner of our little spat while I ended up posting in the ban corner. But nope, I won't give you that satisfaction.
Too bad for you.

My evidence is right here, and anyone else running into similar issues can point to it, so you've lost your ability to manipulate the situation using that tool.

It's not hard to find stupid complaints; the hard part is finding a justified complaint that actually serves the common good!

Oh, and I actually have a theory as to why admins don't punish the mods, but I probably shouldn't say it out loud...
😁

Honestly, this PDF is an endless source of entertainment.
Sometimes it’s even more amusing than browsing through junk threads or those mindless internet arguments.
Every once in a while, when I'm feeling particularly bored, I find myself drifting back here just to read about how someone in the Religion section offended a user over some Easter bunny nonsense, or how a moderator in Politics went absolutely scorched-earth on some right-winger—excuse me, left-winger, excuse me, extremist...🍿

Rachel Sanchez11 said:Yeah, you could drag stuff like this out until the day after tomorrow...
But look, if five different people complain about the exact same behavior within three months—unless they're all in some weird conspiracy together—there's a massive chance that specific behavior actually exists...
Or maybe it's just a coincidence. I mean, I believe in coincidences, but I don't believe they happen by accident....

Here’s an example:
Topic 1

Topic 2

User comment on Topic 2

Another user's comment on the same topic

Response from a respected moderator....

And not a single admin showed up for any of these complaints to say, "Hey, maybe something isn't right here..."
And sorry for dragging up something that actually hurt my feelings and making me sound biased (and petty 😁), but everyone scratches where it itches, and honestly, I haven't been following the FBI lately so I don't have a bigger sample size to work with...

EDIT: I think I need to post this too...
When this happens, things go totally sideways and the mods are forced to hand out permanent bans...

It's not hard to find stupid complaints; the hard part is finding a justified complaint that actually serves the common good!

Oh, and I actually have a theory as to why admins don't punish the mods, but I probably shouldn't say it out loud...
😁

Maybe it's because they have nothing to say? 🤔 Or honestly, maybe they don't even feel the need to speak up? Maybe everything's already been said? 🤔

No way, I'm not buying it. 🤷

Look, I'm bored too. 😁

Rachel Sanchez11 said:Yeah, you could drag stuff like this out until the day after tomorrow...
But look, if five different people complain about the exact same behavior within three months—unless they're all in some weird conspiracy together—there's a massive chance that specific behavior actually exists...
Or maybe it's just a coincidence. I mean, I believe in coincidences, but I don't believe they happen by accident....

Here’s an example:
Topic 1

Topic 2

User comment on Topic 2

Another user's comment on the same topic

Response from a respected moderator....

And not a single admin showed up for any of these complaints to say, "Hey, maybe something isn't right here..."
And sorry for dragging up something that actually hurt my feelings and making me sound biased (and petty 😁), but everyone scratches where it itches, and honestly, I haven't been following the FBI lately so I don't have a bigger sample size to work with...

EDIT: I think I need to post this too...
When this happens, things go totally sideways and the mods are forced to hand out permanent bans...

It's not hard to find stupid complaints; the hard part is finding a justified complaint that actually serves the common good!

Oh, and I actually have a theory as to why admins don't punish the mods, but I probably shouldn't say it out loud...
😁

I agree that admins should look into cases where multiple users complain about the same moderator. If something is actually wrong—which it usually is if multiple people are flagging it—they should step in. But maybe the admins just miss the serious issues because they're buried under all these tasteless jokes. Then users complain that the FBI needs to be shut down because nothing ever gets fixed.🙄

1) They don't think anything is a problem, when in reality, it is.
2) Even when there is a problem, it gets ignored by the group mentioned in point number 1.

Honestly, I’m starting to think every single moderator jumping into this thread has completely lost their marbles, like they’ve got way too much time on their hands and just live for the thrill of tilting at windmills 😂

Wait, what am I even doing here? 😕 😁

Richard Perez3 said:Maybe it's because they have nothing to say? 🤔 Or honestly, maybe they don't even feel the need to speak up? Maybe everything's already been said? 🤔

No way, I'm not buying it. 🤷

Look, I'm bored too. 😁

And once again, we've turned this thread into whatever boldhound8 was rambling about regarding U vs M.
But I guess that happened because the mods feel like they're being attacked...
Hmm, does it count as "already said" if you were just stating your own opinion?

Yeah, I love thinking like that, and usually, I'll double down on that kind of logic...
😁

Especially when I've got nothing better to do...
☕

P.S. smartie, if everything really had been said, there wouldn't be a brand new thread all about her...
Let's make a bet:
If a similar thread about her pops up within a month, you resign and get a permanent ban...
If it doesn't happen, I'll never become a moderator (Lord knows what I'm even betting here) and I'll get a permanent ban...

Deal?