Immigration General Discussion Volume IV (Read the first post and moderator warning on page 309)

Grace said:An American Red Cross rep from Germany is saying they’re opening refugee centers every single day over there. Full apartment complexes and new developments, just like what was shown on the news last night.

Then you hear the British reporter go, "Uh... every day??"

The guy just responds totally deadpan, like he's surprised by the question: "Yes."

Hold on. They're handing out brand new housing?😁

David Baker2 said:Did those water cannons actually stop anyone at the US-Mexico border?
Or did everyone just pivot toward our side after that, making it look like the folks down south were some kind of unstoppable force when, in reality, we just took the brunt of the shift?

But fine, whatever. Who am I to try and enlighten any of you.
Go ahead and cling to your little fantasies for as long as they provide you comfort.

...a literal utopia on earth, right? 🙂

Honestly, I’m leaning toward the idea that nothing is actually being stopped.
The Canadians managed to dodge the brunt of this mess (for now, anyway), but if you watch the footage or listen to what the politicians are saying—like how Joe Biden might remark that "the Canadians are getting worked up, but they'll realize in a few days that there's nothing they can do about it"—it’s pretty clear these people aren't going to be deterred by a bit of spray.

The only way you could realistically stop them would be through pure force, like literal open aggression against them while they're actively trying to cross the line.

That brings up a massive moral dilemma: how would leaders over in the Middle East (the ones currently sending out humanitarian aid and everything) react if they saw "European Union police or military opening fire on unarmed Muslims, including women and children, who are just looking for help"?

It’s a total checkmate situation, regardless of whether we want to spend all our time bickering over whether this counts as an invasion or some sort of unplanned migration driven by specific circumstances.

Peggy said:If they're paying to move through Mexico, they could just as easily be paying for food. Honestly, they probably are buying supplies right now because they clearly have the funds available.

But really, how much money do they actually have left to sustain them?
I was thinking, if the Mexicans were to simply transport them directly to the border with America, they wouldn't be anywhere near the local supermarkets, which means they wouldn't have the opportunity to stock up on groceries in bulk, and would ultimately find themselves entirely dependent on whatever "Mexican humanitarian aid" might come their way.

Karen Richardson3 said:Honestly, I’m leaning toward the idea that nothing is actually being stopped.
The Canadians managed to dodge the brunt of this mess (for now, anyway), but if you watch the footage or listen to what the politicians are saying—like how Joe Biden might remark that "the Canadians are getting worked up, but they'll realize in a few days that there's nothing they can do about it"—it’s pretty clear these people aren't going to be deterred by a bit of spray.

The only way you could realistically stop them would be through pure force, like literal open aggression against them while they're actively trying to cross the line.

That brings up a massive moral dilemma: how would leaders over in the Middle East (the ones currently sending out humanitarian aid and everything) react if they saw "European Union police or military opening fire on unarmed Muslims, including women and children, who are just looking for help"?

It’s a total checkmate situation, regardless of whether we want to spend all our time bickering over whether this counts as an invasion or some sort of unplanned migration driven by specific circumstances.

That is the only way. Without casualties, there is no blockade. It is a grim reality, but it is the truth.

This is precisely why I keep insisting that the Canadian border fence serves more as a psychological deterrent for domestic consumption than as any actual external defense.

For the moment, it's purely a matter of psychology and populist posturing, though we shall see what the future holds. ☕

David Baker2 said:I would truly love—honestly, for the sake of all of you who seem to believe some fence is going to be your magical salvation—if the Department of Homeland Security would just decide to unload three or four trains and about a hundred buses full of people onto that Canadian wire all at once, just to see ten thousand refugees pile up against it within a twelve-hour window.

After twenty-four hours of watching that happen, I’d love to sit down and ask you what you think about the effectiveness of that wire. ☕

The only reason that barrier on the border actually "works" isn't because of the steel; it's solely because the flow was redirected toward us from Mexico, and then we diverted the direction toward the Americans in the Midwest.

So, the wire hasn't solved a single thing.

And I would really, truly—even if you call me a villain for saying it, but sometimes a man has no other way to make a point—love to see DHS gather ten thousand people in a staging area and perform one express delivery right onto that line.

Just so the idea that a wire is a solution finally gets hammered into your heads.

Without firing shots and using force, you aren't stopping those people.
You could install sixteen rows of concertina wire, but if you don't intend to use lethal force, you're just wasting your time painting the fence. ☕

But hey, go ahead, keep drooling over how "ingenious" Viktor Orbán is. If that's what brings you satisfaction and makes you happy, who am I to stand in your way? 🤷

If someone is truly charging at you, there are milder ways to push them back—things like tear gas, water cannons, or rubber bullets, as we’ve already seen. But if they’re persistent enough that those don't work, then you're looking at an invasion of sovereign territory. At that point, lethal force is on the table.

No matter how much you might dislike Viktor Orbán, or whether you think he’s just playing to the crowd for populist points, there is no denying that his logic is airtight.

11:00 - Late Wednesday, the Canadian Prime Minister, Viktor Orbán, called on leaders across Europe to overhaul their immigration policies and deter migrants from entering Europe; failing that, he warned, they will face a political meltdown that threatens the very foundation of democratic order.
Speaking to M1 television ahead of Thursday's European People's Party congress in Madrid, Viktor Orbán argued that European leaders simply lack the mandate to allow hundreds of thousands of refugees into the European Union with little to no oversight.
He noted that the purpose of the Canadian fence along the southern border is to deter migrants from reaching Europe entirely, rather than merely funneling them through other routes toward Germany. He added that he has already urged neighboring North American nations to take back those refugees.
"This is destabilizing European democracy," he insisted. "We need to start having an honest debate about the future of our continent—one that isn't stifled by 'political correctness,' without pretense, and where we actually speak openly," Viktor Orbán stated.
"We have to listen to the people and integrate their perspectives into policy. If we fail to do that, we are heading straight for a political crisis at the peak of this migrant crisis," he remarked.
Viktor Orbán maintained that instead of providing a gateway to Europe, the correct approach is to return individuals to the refugee camps where their journey began, reasoning that "the further they are moved from their problematic home countries, the harder they become to repatriate." Consequently, he concluded that these people "must remain in their own region," where "humane conditions must be established for them," according to the Canadian Prime Minister.

Honestly, there is far too much political "correctness" surrounding this issue. It makes my skin crawl every time I see a report on our TV networks or in the papers where every second headline is some sanitized version of "it's mostly just women and children."

David Baker2 said:Those people in Canada can play the genius role all they want, but just wait until we start piling refugees up against that precious little fence of theirs; I guarantee their laughter will turn to pure panic instantly. Especially after they get that first frantic phone call from Soros.

And don't even get me started on the rest of you fence-worshippers who are right there alongside them. ☕

But how exactly would that happen? I’m worried this is just wishful thinking... ☕

Jerry Phillips19 said:But how exactly would that happen? I’m worried this is just wishful thinking... ☕

As things stand, they’re trying to push everything through Canada.

Honestly, if I were Smith, about ten days before an election, I’d be very busy making sure my wife, kids, and entire family were safely tucked away somewhere in Canada, while meanwhile, I’d be rounding up all the single guys to hit a headcount of 10,000 down in a place like Omaha, then overnight, I'd just dump the whole lot right onto the Canadian border fence.

Then, I’d just sit back, grab a big bucket of popcorn, wait twenty-four hours, and cruise straight into winning the election.

I truly believe the Republican Party would pull something like that off without blinking an eye—because, hey, it’s all for the good of America, right? ☕

Ashley Robinson58 said:If someone is truly charging at you, there are milder ways to push them back—things like tear gas, water cannons, or rubber bullets, as we’ve already seen. But if they’re persistent enough that those don't work, then you're looking at an invasion of sovereign territory. At that point, lethal force is on the table.

But honestly, from what we're seeing in the footage, the police are really just trying to hold the line and maintain order by using stuff like tear gas, yet the crowds just regroup and push right through anyway. It’s wild because they’re actually putting kids in the front lines—you can see it in the officer statements and the photos—basically using children as human shields to break through the cordons.

At the end of the day, the police just end up giving in because they can't be given an order like "start shooting if the tear gas isn't working." Technically, we're dealing with asylum seekers here, and since they're refusing to even register themselves—which we can figure out based on how people have been burning tents over in Canada—it becomes impossible to tell who actually has a legal claim to asylum and who’s just bypassing the system.

The whole situation is just pure chaos.
It’s heartbreaking to see women giving birth right by the roadside and then having to get back on their feet immediately to keep moving.
These migrants aren't willing to spend even a day or two in a processing center to get registered and moved along via organized transport.
They’re wading through rivers and we're watching them soaked to the bone, even though they don't even need to be crossing water like that.
Then they turn around and accuse us of being inhumane, throwing out these moralizing talking points that sound great on paper but don't match reality.
European Union politicians are basically just putting on a show for the public (Canada is running the same kind of political theater we saw back when the border issues first started; the only difference was we blocked truck traffic just so Joe Biden could score some election points, wasn't that his one big "statesman" move? 🤣 😁 ).
Total mess.

Nobody seems to be addressing the fact that we’re really just seeing the first wave of economic migrants here. Once the leaders of these families—usually the men—give the word, the rest of the relatives will start following suit to reunite. People are being incredibly naive if they think this whole situation is going to magically resolve itself by spring. 🤦

David Baker2 said:Whoever ends up in power—and we really ought to ensure it isn't us—is going to be making a killing.

When Christiana Amanpour and her cohort finally corner him, and George Soros dismantles his economy, he won't have a thousand-year empire left to rule...

History has consistently shown us that nations are preserved by those who recognize their own strength and act upon it, rather than those who live in a perpetual state of trembling fear before every passing shadow.

What are you talking about regarding George Soros? That man is likely six feet under by now. Even if he isn't, he’ll have far more pressing matters to attend to—like basic biological functions—than worrying about some migrants out there.

If we follow that flawed logic, Mexico would never have emerged from its isolation over the next nine centuries, nor would Americans have felt the need to sanction Russia over Ukraine for the next seven hundred years or so.

A border wall? Of course, it will help. But let’s be realistic: a wall alone, stripped of genuine political will, is incapable of stopping anyone.
However, as a starting point, such a barrier serves as an exceptionally potent tool.

electricorca112 said:http://www.24ur.com/novice/slovenija...ve-naloge.html

It’s pretty wild—just two days into this little crisis in his neck of the woods, the Canadian Prime Minister Cerar is already tapping the European Union on the shoulder asking for financial assistance.

Meanwhile, over here in the States, after we've spent over a month watching millions of dollars from American taxpayers vanish into thin air, our guy—who is easily the most decent of the arrogant bunch (and definitely the most arrogant of the decent ones)—isn't even asking for a single cent. Instead, he’s asking for help with supplies to set up hot spots (think tents, shipping containers, blankets, clothes, mattresses, and all that good stuff).

Just great..... 👍

Oh yeah, sure, we’ve got piles of cash just lying around, right? Who needs help from the rest of the world? I’m sure Zoran Milanović and unknown will just pay for everything out of their own pockets. My bad—I forgot they'll use *our* money, the money we worked our tails off to put in their pockets in the first place.

Quote:>

David Baker2 says: For now, they’re routing everything through Canada. Honestly? If I were in charge, about ten days before the election, I’d be sending my wife, kids, and entire family off to Canada for safety. Then, I'd round up all those single guys until I had a group of 10,000 gathered in a spot like Omaha, and just unload them onto the Canadian border overnight. Then I’d just sit back, grab some popcorn, wait 24 hours, and cruise right through to an election victory. I bet the Republican Party would pull it off without breaking a sweat—because hey, "it's all for America," right? ☕

And nothing would actually happen. They’d just slip past the Canadian fence and head straight for the American countryside—fields, vineyards, you name it. No obstacles. No matter how many thousands there are, they're cowards.

The nations currently dealing with this mass exodus should honestly be looking into suing Germany—they’re basically putting migrants and refugees in harm's way while simultaneously destabilizing the security of the entire European Union.
I mean, look, Germany’s chaotic policies have essentially engineered the exact crisis we're seeing right now. If they were actually desperate for more workers, they should have just gone straight to the source—organizing direct transport from places like Turkey, Lebanon, or Jordan for the specific people they wanted to bring in as labor. It's not that complicated, really.
We need to handle refugees the way things used to be done before this whole mess started: transport them directly to the countries that actually want them, but make sure the heaviest burden falls on those specific nations that created this global situation by pushing their particular brand of democracy on everyone else.

Melissa Peterson19 said:You should mention first that those countries practically bowed down to Joseph Stalin; they spent half a century being crushed by a bear and trampled under a boot. We didn't. That’s why we can laugh at them and claim the high ground.

Even now, during this crisis, we carry ourselves like civilized adults, while fascism is starting to stink off them. We dealt with our demons when it mattered, while they were busy sucking up to Adolf Hitler. To hell with the whole lot of them!

Laugh at them? You mean laugh at the people who have absolutely outpaced us in every single way when it comes to quality of life and standard of living?

Honestly, it looks like you’ve still got fascism stuck in your brain—I truly pity you and anyone else who still views the entire world through the lens of 1945. You guys are just stuck in that era. Times have changed; fascism and Nazism are gone, replaced by nothing but Islamic fundamentalism.

Gregory Hall66 said:History has consistently shown us that nations are preserved by those who recognize their own strength and act upon it, rather than those who live in a perpetual state of trembling fear before every passing shadow.

What are you talking about regarding George Soros? That man is likely six feet under by now. Even if he isn't, he’ll have far more pressing matters to attend to—like basic biological functions—than worrying about some migrants out there.

If we follow that flawed logic, Mexico would never have emerged from its isolation over the next nine centuries, nor would Americans have felt the need to sanction Russia over Ukraine for the next seven hundred years or so.

A border wall? Of course, it will help. But let’s be realistic: a wall alone, stripped of genuine political will, is incapable of stopping anyone.
However, as a starting point, such a barrier serves as an exceptionally potent tool.

To put what that guy was saying into my own words... 2016 is a lifetime ago now.

Roger Morgan41 said:Quote:>

David Baker2 says: For now, they’re routing everything through Canada. Honestly? If I were in charge, about ten days before the election, I’d be sending my wife, kids, and entire family off to Canada for safety. Then, I'd round up all those single guys until I had a group of 10,000 gathered in a spot like Omaha, and just unload them onto the Canadian border overnight. Then I’d just sit back, grab some popcorn, wait 24 hours, and cruise right through to an election victory. I bet the Republican Party would pull it off without breaking a sweat—because hey, "it's all for America," right? ☕

And nothing would actually happen. They’d just slip past the Canadian fence and head straight for the American countryside—fields, vineyards, you name it. No obstacles. No matter how many thousands there are, they're cowards.

You know, there’s an old bit of wisdom floating around that suggests it is always better to overestimate an opponent than to underestimate them.

Otherwise, you might just lose the whole war because you were too busy worrying about a cup of tea.

coastalridge64 said:Nobody seems to be addressing the fact that we’re really just seeing the first wave of economic migrants here. Once the leaders of these families—usually the men—give the word, the rest of the relatives will start following suit to reunite. People are being incredibly naive if they think this whole situation is going to magically resolve itself by spring. 🤦

But then again, silence is the prevailing theme here, isn't it?
For instance, does anyone contemplate how an average American feels when a migrant is settled into a brand-new apartment with everything provided, while he himself is forced to grind away at his job until he's 67 just to earn a retirement?
Or what about the sheer hardship of a pregnant woman trudging through this kind of weather, wading through the mud? She is putting both her own life and the life of her unborn child at risk.

coastalridge64 said:Nobody seems to be addressing the fact that we’re really just seeing the first wave of economic migrants here. Once the leaders of these families—usually the men—give the word, the rest of the relatives will start following suit to reunite. People are being incredibly naive if they think this whole situation is going to magically resolve itself by spring. 🤦

The fathers have already started the journey, leaving their wives and kids behind on the battlefield. Once they finally get their papers, separating those families is going to be nearly impossible. There weren't even that many cases like yours back in the day.

Now you've got these guys in their prime, undocumented, showing up at the US border right against the fence trying to force their way in, while the police are just holding the line.
Why on earth are we expected to feel empathy for them? Just because there's a massive crowd of them?

electricorca112 said:Look, I don't have a crystal ball like you do, so I can't predict the future, but I do know how things work. I know what happens when you follow the lead of "idiots and fools" acting under the guise of careful statecraft:

There haven't been any illegal crossings at the US-Mexico border over the last two days, reported György Bakondi, an advisor to the Prime Minister, during a Wednesday briefing with the media.

According to him, 22 people crossed illegally into the US on Monday, followed by 36 on Tuesday, according to the Associated Press, which didn't specify where these migrants originated.

He claimed this demonstrates how the situation has almost returned to normal , Bakondi added.

🍿

People need to shove this in the face of every single "know-it-all" who asks, "Well, how would a wall actually help us?" It helps exactly the same way it helped Canada! Unlike America, where thousands of immigrants are still finding ways to sneak in through illegal routes every single day, Canada saw their numbers drop to just 22 after they put up the fence. Twenty-two! Can you believe that?