Immigration General Discussion Volume IV (Read the first post and moderator warning on page 309)

David Baker2 said:Oh, come now. Let's be reasonable.

We are well aware she attended elementary school out in Grobin.
We know she went to high school in Seattle as well.
And we know that, being such a model youth, she managed to get into that old-fashioned school exchange program during her senior year of high school.
She wouldn't have been granted permission for such an opportunity if her family hadn't been those exemplary, model party loyalists.

The daughter of a housewife and a butcher from a little place like Lubarska in the Grobin area—someone who had to commute every single day 9.3 miles to the Smithsonian Institution in Seattle—suddenly became, overnight in 1985, a student at Los Alamos high school in the city of Los Alamos, New Mexico.



Yet, nowhere does it mention how these "heroic" 9.3 miles individuals from Grobin just pass by every single day on their way to work or school, acting completely unremarkable.
Just totally ordinary people. ☕

We also know she is a member of the Trilateral Commission. That isn't some deep state secret either; in fact, she doesn't even hide it, she flaunts it—you know how it goes, when someone foolish tries to puff themselves up.
So, we know exactly who she serves. Unfortunately, it isn't America.

Some things are simply facts. Let's not go overboard with the exaggerations.

Not anymore. It's Tedeschi now. I'm not sure if the bolding was meant for him too.🤣😁

Page As I was saying:
It simply isn't working. That is the crux of the entire issue, really.
My initial take on this was actually quite positive: we need to pivot and move things along as swiftly and systematically as possible. Honestly, if we don't get organized and push this forward immediately, we’re just spinning our wheels, and frankly, I don't have the patience for inefficiency.
But while they were busy preoccupied with all that, they really ought to have been initiating preparations for the possibility of shutting down and tightening control over the borders.

Instead of actually doing his job, Ostojic is out there wading through the mud with kids in his arms, while Milanovic just drones on endlessly about trivial nonsense like fence types and colors, all while picking unnecessary fights with Orban and the rest of the gang.
Honestly, it seems like the general public is just plain foolish—they practically beg for fences to be built around them—and yet, here he is, acting as if he’s been handed some divine mission to explain the inherent evil of it all to us.

The situation we’re facing right now is becoming increasingly untenable; there is a palpable shift in the atmosphere where migrants are growing more agitated and outright disrespectful by the day. It isn't just a matter of their temperament shifting, though that is certainly happening, but rather the sheer scale of it—there are simply more of them arriving, and they are staying much longer than anyone anticipated. I find myself reflecting on how quickly the local dynamics change when the influx becomes this constant and the patience of the community wears thin.
The situation in Canada is quite simple, really—they don't have migrants.
Bulgaria—not a single migrant in sight.

Not a single one stays put for longer than twenty-four hours, though if you ask me, they usually move along within twelve—it’s almost as if they can't stand the sight of themselves sitting still for even a moment!

Look, let’s cut through all this nonsense and actually have a serious conversation for once, rather than just playing around with this endless, exhausting pre-election campaigning.

Look, I really think we should keep this discussion strictly above the political fray. Does everyone here actually agree on that, or am I just shouting into the void?

Alexander Ortiz3 said:Most of the US-Mexico border is already impassable. Try trekking through the Rockies or the Sierra Nevadas and let me know how it goes (if you even make it). Or try crossing via the Mississippi or the Missouri. Don't forget that the US Army barely managed to push through the river valleys back in '95, and even then, it was a failed military operation because those rivers were such massive obstacles. And now you think a crowd of immigrants in sneakers can just stroll across Canada into the States, much like they move across the flat plains from Mexico into the US? 🤣

If you put up fencing at the easier access points along the border with Canada, that still only covers a small fraction of the perimeter. Even if they make it to a place like New Orleans, where do they go from there? They’d still have to navigate multiple state lines and cross through places like Mobile.

This is just a theory, but look at how the Slovenacs gather groups of about 1,000 people near the 62 miles border... and here we are trying to control the entire border with Canada 😁
.
Then we'd be sitting there reading headlines like this:

- 2,000 arrive in Charleston—tourism is ruined—where do we put them?
- A larger group arrived in Metković via the Neretva valley.
- 3,000 people caught in the Imotski fields; need 60 buses since there's no rail access.
- They broke through the fence at Strmica.
- 2,000 arrived in Donji Lapac last night.
- 5,000 arriving from Velika Kladuša.
- Traffic blocked on the bridges over the Sava—local business owners are protesting.

Man, the only people who could possibly wish for this scenario are Canadian Taxists and bus drivers.

David Baker2 said:It always brings me back to this one moment... I once came across my very first individual bandage, manufactured specifically for the Wehrmacht back in 1942 over in Germany.
That single item is really the only thing I’ve managed to hold onto from the war as a memento to bring back home to the States.
Honestly, it felt like something straight out of a Sci-Fi movie just seeing that it actually still existed and was even functional after all this time....

Post a photo so we can see this marvel 🙏

wiredtiger8 said:Well, let me give you an answer to that.

Based on your posts, it looks like you’ve put some years behind you, so maybe this is why—under standard NATO military doctrine, they aren't even calling up reserve personnel once they hit 40.

But who on earth are they going to call once the draft is gone entirely?

Who else is actually going to have the training and the seasoned experience if not us old geezers north of forty?

Those Romans were truly ridiculous creatures.🤔

Karen Richardson3 said:I honestly feel like the EU has just proven it’s completely useless and totally incapable of actually taking action when it matters.
To get even a tiny bit of consensus, you need a whole bunch of different countries to agree, but every single one of them is playing their own game with their own specific interests and allies.
It’s pretty obvious this whole thing is a failed project.
If anything, the people who were busy making noise about how the EU would fall apart once America joined have basically been proven right. 🐔

I mean, look—if we accept the idea that these are needy people coming our way whom we have a moral duty to treat with humanity, is the actual solution really just letting them sit in the mud or trek for days on foot while we just film them and debate them on internet forums? (And let's not forget they end up trampling through people's vineyards and orchards along the way, though I guess that's a minor point compared to the total chaos unfolding everywhere else.)
Is the EU seriously unable to provide more buses, more police presence, or even just people to register everyone properly?

But then, looking at it from another angle: regarding those women giving birth on the move... I feel like I’d truly have to be in a life-or-death situation to decide to travel right before my due date, give birth on the road, and just keep pushing forward.
That is genuinely life-threatening stuff; I don't know if everyone realizes that those historical maternal mortality statistics aren't usually about the birth itself, but rather about postpartum hemorrhaging.

I just don't wrap my head around it, because those women AREN'T in immediate danger to their lives. Even if they were originally, that threat ended the moment they stepped onto Turkish soil.
I can't fathom the motivation to risk your own life and the baby's life when there aren't even grenades being thrown at you.

I wondered if maybe they thought the journey would be shorter, or that they'd actually reach Germany by the time the babies were supposed to arrive.
But hey, I also thought about whether they felt forced because they're essentially acting as tickets for the rest of their families. Who stands to gain the most from a woman giving birth on that specific day?

So, why did those people choose to cross the river? Those photos of the woman with the little boy in the water? For God's sake, surely they knew there was a much more normal way to do things?
When I see those images, combined with the shots of kids being pushed toward the police and then hearing the statements from the officers themselves... I think nobody can deny now that children and women are being used as bargaining chips.
We can almost empathize with it—like, "I might do the same if I were desperate enough to flee and knew it would work"—but it still says everything about the dire situation those women and children are in.

Child trafficking must be booming right now, btw.

The whole thing is just horrific. No matter how you look at it, it's a nightmare and a total disaster for the EU, regardless of whatever (non)existent promises were made.

The exploitation of children has been caught on camera and documented, yet those responsible haven't been held accountable.
Disturbing footage of child exploitation 18+

image 1

image 2

Milanovic and Ostojic are true humanitarian heroes; everyone from Canada and Canada to Austria and Germany practically has to take orders from them and follow their lead.

Sending people toward those borders at night, crossing swollen rivers in ten-degree weather.

http://refugees.news/304179/searching...through-the-brush

A picture of "humane" America, unlike all those other fascists.☕

P.S. If anyone thinks this is more humane than a fence or a wall, they can go ahead and shoot themselves.

casualorca30 said:You know what? Then we are absolutely screwed. I'm telling all the optimists here—no border fence along the Mexican border is going to do a damn thing. Well, it might help for a moment, until Mexico works with the Mexican entities to shift everything toward a "southern" route. Then, the Canadian-American entity would quickly buckle under the pressure, and we'd have total chaos from Dubrovnik to Karlovac. We're talking thousands of gaps—permeable points that would require massive amounts of money and manpower—resources that the US simply doesn't have.

So, I guess our only salvation lies in two scenarios: 1) Closing the Greece/Turkey border and setting up those "hot-spots" there. 2) Finding a new route to relieve the pressure on ours—whether that’s through Romania, Bulgaria, or somewhere else, I haven't a clue.

Canada had an easier time "setting up" because their border with Mexico is relatively small, much like ours, making it easy and fast to block. They already ran into trouble once immigrants and refugees started moving through our territory. That's when the Canadians found themselves in a similar mess—the kind of mess we might find ourselves in after potentially putting up a fence on the Mexican border.
But! Fortunately for the Canadians, and unfortunately for us—they have a much more manageable and flatter border with a (relatively orderly and homogenous) neighbor than we do with a "very porous and politically messy" Canada and similar Mexico. Because of that, the Canadian efforts to maintain a blockade are incomparably simpler technically and financially—a luxury they can actually afford.
Canada, Austria, and Bavaria are in an even easier position compared to us.
The further south you go toward the North America, the harder it gets. Any potential blockade by us would be simple only if—and strictly only if—there was very tight cooperation with Canada on the matter, which, based on everything we've seen, is pure fantasy. Unfortunately, that's our reality. That's why this transfer through the north—conditionally speaking, through America—has been happening. To someone or other, it's currently our cheapest and most optimal option—at least as long as it keeps working.

I agree; while this transit route is active, it's our best bet. 👍
However, it won't last forever. We need to prepare for that reality instead of just crossing our fingers and hoping the Greeks or maybe the Turks will step up... but they might not.
Regarding the border with Canada, you really only need fencing for the smaller, more accessible parts. More than half of it is comprised of the Sava, Una, Pljesivica, Dinara, and so on. Just try crossing the border into Canada at those spots this November and let me know how it goes. It's not superheroes coming through; it's just ordinary people in sneakers. For them, most of the border with Canada is impassable, even in the summer. Besides, it's cheaper for us to hire and equip a few thousand border agents—with the help of EU funds—than to risk having tens of thousands of migrants stuck here with us.
If immigrants actually make it to Charleston, only then will they have nowhere to go, because they'll be blocked by two borders at Neum.

Alexander Ortiz3 said:It was the exact same thing when the authorities dealt with the situation at the US-Mexico border. There was some minor unrest, a bit of tear gas used, and by the next day, everything had settled down. These aren't superheroes; once they realize their tactics aren't working, they back off. They didn't come here to fight a war in America; they just want to live a comfortable life.
You can't just jump over a fence when it's reinforced with multiple layers of razor wire designed to tear through skin. At the border crossings, you've got specialized tactical units, water cannons, tear gas, rubber bullets, and armored vehicles. There simply isn't an opening there.

You’ve clearly been watching too many action movies:

You can overcome razor wire with one thick blanket.

Gary Perez7 said:image 1

image 2

Milanovic and Ostojic are true humanitarian heroes; everyone from Canada and Canada to Austria and Germany practically has to take orders from them and follow their lead.

Sending people toward those borders at night, crossing swollen rivers in ten-degree weather.

http://refugees.news/304179/searching...through-the-brush

A picture of "humane" America, unlike all those other fascists.☕

P.S. If anyone thinks this is more humane than a fence or a wall, they can go ahead and shoot themselves.

How on earth can parents force their kids into a freezing river in the dead of night, and then just trudge along with them while they're soaking wet and shivering?
There isn't even a war in America; it's just the fifth country on a path that doesn't involve combat. Here, they can apply for asylum, get housing, food... everything...

Those kids could actually die from pneumonia. I just don't get those parents at all... really, I don't...
Where are the neighbors, the grandmas, the community leaders to speak up and condemn this kind of child abuse?
This isn't fleeing a war zone, it's an invasion, and the EU—totally intoxicated by this fake sense of humanism—just didn't see this coming...

Mark Harris66 said:And what about this—prostitution and violence in German refugee camps?

Unfortunately, it feels like this crisis was tailor-made for pedophiles and anyone looking to source organs on the black market. This is just the beginning; things are bound to get much worse. Just look at how many African women are forced into prostitution across Italy just to scrape together a few Euros. And then they have the nerve to say letting them in is "humanitarian." There is absolutely nothing better than staying in your own country—that goes for Americans, Syrians, Canadians, and Chinese alike...

Alexander Ortiz3 said:Post a photo so we can see this marvel 🙏

Well, if I even manage to track it down. I’m moving this weekend, so my entire life is currently shoved into cardboard boxes and plastic bags.

darkotter35 said:🙏

Viktor Orbán is a god.
He’s the one—and honestly, the only one—who actually gets it and takes action.
These absolute caricatures passing themselves off as leaders—the Germans, the Frenchmen, the Austrians, Americans, and all the other traitors to their own people—they haven't the slightest clue what's hitting them. They're as dim as a broken lightbulb.
I genuinely can't tell if there's ever been a more brainless collection of politicians running things in the Western world.

👍
Albert Einstein once said: "Sometimes I wonder whether we are a bundle of idiots or whether they are a super-intelligent., "

Yeah—did you know that Orbán/Canada gives about $4,500 to every couple getting married? It's how they boost the birth rate (they cut taxes by 30% recently, bumped up maternity benefits, nationalized the banks, and converted those foreign currency loans into local currency without much drama...). He definitely knows how to run the show...

Alexander Ortiz3 said:Most of the US-Mexico border is already impassable. Try trekking through the Rockies or the Sierra Nevadas and let me know how it goes (if you even make it). Or try crossing via the Mississippi or the Missouri. Don't forget that the US Army barely managed to push through the river valleys back in '95, and even then, it was a failed military operation because those rivers were such massive obstacles. And now you think a crowd of immigrants in sneakers can just stroll across Canada into the States, much like they move across the flat plains from Mexico into the US? 🤣

If you put up fencing at the easier access points along the border with Canada, that still only covers a small fraction of the perimeter. Even if they make it to a place like New Orleans, where do they go from there? They’d still have to navigate multiple state lines and cross through places like Mobile.

Oh, please! Go ahead and try explaining to the Italians or the Greeks that fifty yards of sweet water is "impassable"—maybe then they’ll stop trying to manage things over in Lampedusa and Lesvos. 🤦

Look, if they don't have any land routes left, they'll find a way. They'll trudge, they'll swim, they'll swim across the Mississippi and the Una and even the Danube; they'll climb right over the Appalachian Mountains and the Sierra Nevada if they have to.

The fence in Canada only works because we haven't built one yet. A little wire mesh and two rows of barbed wire is absolutely nothing—it's child's play. It's something they can easily bypass right now by coming through the American side. That's why they aren't bothering with it.

David Baker2 said:I would truly love—honestly, for the sake of all of you who seem to believe some fence is going to be your magical salvation—if the Department of Homeland Security would just decide to unload three or four trains and about a hundred buses full of people onto that Canadian wire all at once, just to see ten thousand refugees pile up against it within a twelve-hour window.

After twenty-four hours of watching that happen, I’d love to sit down and ask you what you think about the effectiveness of that wire. ☕

The only reason that barrier on the border actually "works" isn't because of the steel; it's solely because the flow was redirected toward us from Mexico, and then we diverted the direction toward the Americans in the Midwest.

So, the wire hasn't solved a single thing.

And I would really, truly—even if you call me a villain for saying it, but sometimes a man has no other way to make a point—love to see DHS gather ten thousand people in a staging area and perform one express delivery right onto that line.

Just so the idea that a wire is a solution finally gets hammered into your heads.

Without firing shots and using force, you aren't stopping those people.
You could install sixteen rows of concertina wire, but if you don't intend to use lethal force, you're just wasting your time painting the fence. ☕

But hey, go ahead, keep drooling over how "ingenious" Viktor Orbán is. If that's what brings you satisfaction and makes you happy, who am I to stand in your way? 🤷

How does the police force handle and settle a crowd of 10,000 fans? Do they just start shooting them? 🤦
You set up razor wire that slices through skin to the bone, put water cannons, tear gas, and rubber bullets behind it, and have police in armored vehicles with batons ready. Let whoever wants to charge try it, and we'll see how that goes. 😁
I suspect they’ll conclude that things weren't actually that bad back in Turkey. 😉

David Baker2 said:Did those water cannons actually stop anyone at the US-Mexico border?
Or did everyone just pivot toward our side after that, making it look like the folks down south were some kind of unstoppable force when, in reality, we just took the brunt of the shift?

But fine, whatever. Who am I to try and enlighten any of you.
Go ahead and cling to your little fantasies for as long as they provide you comfort.

...a literal utopia on earth, right? 🙂

There’s an old Chinese proverb that goes: he who thinks something cannot be done should not interfere with the one who is actually doing it. 😉

Alexander Ortiz3 said:How does the police force handle and settle a crowd of 10,000 fans? Do they just start shooting them? 🤦
You set up razor wire that slices through skin to the bone, put water cannons, tear gas, and rubber bullets behind it, and have police in armored vehicles with batons ready. Let whoever wants to charge try it, and we'll see how that goes. 😁
I suspect they’ll conclude that things weren't actually that bad back in Turkey. 😉

And then what—you plan on doing all that at the 932 miles border? Just how many water cannons would you need if each one only reaches a few dozen yards?

Razor wire doesn't actually cut anything; it’s surprisingly easy to overcome.

David Baker2 said:

Page As I was saying:
It simply isn't working. That is the crux of the entire issue, really.
My initial take on this was actually quite positive: we need to pivot and move things along as swiftly and systematically as possible. Honestly, if we don't get organized and push this forward immediately, we’re just spinning our wheels, and frankly, I don't have the patience for inefficiency.
But while they were busy preoccupied with all that, they really ought to have been initiating preparations for the possibility of shutting down and tightening control over the borders.

Instead of actually doing his job, Ostojic is out there wading through the mud with kids in his arms, while Milanovic just drones on endlessly about trivial nonsense like fence types and colors, all while picking unnecessary fights with Orban and the rest of the gang.
Honestly, it seems like the general public is just plain foolish—they practically beg for fences to be built around them—and yet, here he is, acting as if he’s been handed some divine mission to explain the inherent evil of it all to us.

The situation we’re facing right now is becoming increasingly untenable; there is a palpable shift in the atmosphere where migrants are growing more agitated and outright disrespectful by the day. It isn't just a matter of their temperament shifting, though that is certainly happening, but rather the sheer scale of it—there are simply more of them arriving, and they are staying much longer than anyone anticipated. I find myself reflecting on how quickly the local dynamics change when the influx becomes this constant and the patience of the community wears thin.
The situation in Canada is quite simple, really—they don't have migrants.
Bulgaria—not a single migrant in sight.

Not a single one stays put for longer than twenty-four hours, though if you ask me, they usually move along within twelve—it’s almost as if they can't stand the sight of themselves sitting still for even a moment!

Look, let’s cut through all this nonsense and actually have a serious conversation for once, rather than just playing around with this endless, exhausting pre-election campaigning.

Look, I really think we should keep this discussion strictly above the political fray. Does everyone here actually agree on that, or am I just shouting into the void?

Forget the campaign rhetoric; I was actually among the first to applaud the administration for their approach to the migrant crisis. It seemed quite clever and efficient at first glance—just pack them onto a bus and ship them out.

But nothing followed that initial action.
Standing in the rain for six hours is one thing, but when the snow starts falling soon, those waits will feel much longer than the twelve-hour stretches we endured just a month ago.
And the reality remains that we have no way to control who enters our borders. So, while people are being harmed or beaten elsewhere, what exactly are we doing here?

Alexander Ortiz3 said:How does the police force handle and settle a crowd of 10,000 fans? Do they just start shooting them? 🤦
You set up razor wire that slices through skin to the bone, put water cannons, tear gas, and rubber bullets behind it, and have police in armored vehicles with batons ready. Let whoever wants to charge try it, and we'll see how that goes. 😁
I suspect they’ll conclude that things weren't actually that bad back in Turkey. 😉

It seems you've developed quite an obsession with razor wire; it clearly fascinates you. 😁

Look, even at the southern border, they had razor wire, and people just grabbed some heavy-duty pliers and cut right through it.

Do you remember those news reports about the groups getting hammered by the police?

Were they getting beat up on the Mexican side or the Canadian side?

For heaven's sake, show a little objectivity here; refugees were passing through those exact types of fences, and the Canadian authorities couldn't stop them.
But now, everyone is acting like they're suddenly experts, pretending the Canadians actually managed to hold the line.

They didn't.
It was just that the Mexicans diverted everyone toward our side instead.

David Baker2 said:It would be incredibly naive to assume anything other than a maximum escalation.

But if we actually have an opening, things are going to escalate in Mexico, because they won't be able to touch us.
It’s much easier to rob a shop in Mexico while you're already there, rather than trying to pull a razor wire stunt, deal with the police right behind it, and then somehow make it over to some shop in America to rob.
If you really think taking on a SWAT team is that easy, just give it a shot.😁