CheckEmoji Community · the emoji forum
🏠 Home 🆕 What's new ❓ Unanswered 🔥 Popular 📡 RSS Members 👥 0 online log in · register
Home › Society › Politics › Close to Politics › Immigration General Discussion Volume IV (Read the first post and moderator warning on page 309)

Immigration General Discussion Volume IV (Read the first post and moderator warning on page 309)

Started by Charles Fox10 · · 👁 71 views · 1.8K replies

📡 Subscribe to replies

Participants Charles Fox10Peter Reed70Jessica King9Morgan Ruiz3Daniel Johnson3Sophia Myers7quietowl2redridge35Eric Newman4hollowlynx66Amanda Moore8Maria James40mellowotter17Paul Thomas46Ronald Howard3nimbleharbor10Brenda Carter39Steven Perez6crimsonjackal63Alexander Ortiz3Anthony Cooper2slyviper94Adam BarrettJoshua Kelly51 …
Jack Lee77 Jack Lee77 Member
22 messages
joined May 2008
#1181 ·
A major plot twist?

The Austrian Foreign Minister Sebastian Kurz (Austrian People's Party) told radio station Ö1 today that fences are actually doing their job just fine.
gentlemoose57 gentlemoose57 Active Member
72 messages
joined May 2014
#1182 ·
coastalridge64 said:


Are you counting this one as a movie too? 🍿

PS

That promo video is from 2009. Honestly, their 2015 edition was probably even worse—you could probably fix that by sacrificing your own kid to the gods of production value. ☕

Now, take a look at the design of the mesh I put together myself, and just try—really try—to wrap your head around how different they are from those standard, run-of-the-mill combinations.

The wire has its specific number of squares in the cross-section, that cross-section has its own cutting force, and... well, that's just how it works.
Chloe Martinez7 Chloe Martinez7 Active Member
144 messages
joined Jul 2017
#1183 ·
Karen Doyle72 said:Maybe it's so they don't end up with self-incriminating evidence on them if the Canadians bust them? 🤷
Or—and hear me out—maybe the Canadians just grabbed the phones from them during the arrests?

But the article explicitly states they found discarded phones, not that they were confiscated.

wanderingbadger77 said:First off, our politicians need to get their heads out of their asses and realize we aren't some North American union; we’re a full-fledged member of the European Union. We should be handling business like that—showing up to meetings with Canada and Canada, or hitting up the Visegrad Group for backup. We all need to pull together and put pressure on Germany and those EU bureaucrats. Look how fast the Canadians managed to pull a meeting together. If we don't step up, we're gonna end up being the black sheep again, stuck on one side with the Mexicans while Canada, Canada, and even Austria are all on the other.
And honestly, this cozying up with the Mexicans? I'm not feeling it at all. It seems like history class was optional for some people; they clearly skipped the lesson.

The EU initially didn't help Orbán
Neither did the V4—they're suddenly speaking up now, but for months, everyone just watched as immigrants arrived, moved through, and entered Germany.
If the EU had responded in any meaningful way, Orbán wouldn't have felt the need to put up those fences and wire.
We supposedly reached an agreement with Canada. Everything was fine until Zoki Slovenac started playing nice with the Canadians.
Now that things are moving through them, there's total panic.
It isn't about why we failed to call a meeting quickly—it's more about why Orbán wasn't able to call a meeting quickly himself, for instance. ☕
wanderingbadger77 wanderingbadger77 Active Member
100 messages
joined Oct 2018
#1184 ·
Maria James40 said:showing up to meetings with Canada and Canada😁

You think it's that easy, just "showing up"? Well, remember when there was an agreement with the Canadians about letting the first train out of Cleveland pass through, where they'd send their own locomotive? And what happened? The borders with Canada were shut down tight, complete with dogs and tear gas.

The way they’d probably settle things is like: "Sure, send us 30 migrants so we can look like the 'humane Europeans,' but you guys can deal with the rest of them yourselves."

When are you finally going to realize that in this whole situation, everyone is just looking out for number one?.....

When will you get that things aren't just black and white? You shouldn't believe every single thing they feed you.

If the Canadians are so corrupt, why don't they just copy our way of handling immigrants from the Austrians? It would make their lives a hell of a lot easier, wouldn't it?
Rachel Reyes93 Rachel Reyes93 Member
49 messages
joined Oct 2015
#1185 ·
Maria James40 said:showing up to meetings with Canada and Canada😁

You think it's that easy, just "showing up"? Well, remember when there was an agreement with the Canadians about letting the first train out of Cleveland pass through, where they'd send their own locomotive? And what happened? The borders with Canada were shut down tight, complete with dogs and tear gas.

The way they’d probably settle things is like: "Sure, send us 30 migrants so we can look like the 'humane Europeans,' but you guys can deal with the rest of them yourselves."

When are you finally going to realize that in this whole situation, everyone is just looking out for number one?.....

Canada hasn't handled this situation at all. And honestly, it doesn't seem like they want to. They just keep blaming us for sending refugees their way. They don't want them, but their official statements are starting to border on delusional. It’s like they think we’re manufacturing these people just to dump them on them. That they're coming from us, and then we're handing them over. To them, that's just impossible to wrap their heads around. So, who's actually crazy here? They're pointing fingers at us because the refugees are heading toward them!

They didn't honor any of the agreements and just dumped all the blame on our shoulders.
How is it our fault? Everything is their problem, but we aren't allowed to be part of the solution.

Canada just refuses to face reality. Personally, I find that kind of politics pretty pathetic.
Everyone is offering them help, but so far, we haven't seen any actual cooperation.

I'm really curious to see how that meeting with the European Commission goes the day after tomorrow.
Anthony Garcia19 Anthony Garcia19 Active Member
116 messages
joined Aug 2012
#1186 ·
David Baker2 said:Honestly, I don't see what's so surprising about any of this.
Little Merkel has turned toward the Russians and asked for help.
Zoran Milanović is working in lockstep with Little Merkel.

And there is really no reason to act shocked by that.
Because this entire surge is organized and bankrolled by the USA.
Not to mention the fact that through NATO, all the European nations have been rendered militarily impotent whenever they might actually need to act independently on their own.

Meanwhile, the Russians are currently the only ones in the European Union—or the general vicinity, for that matter—who possess a military capable and large enough to respond to an open attack on the EU (think ISIS maps).

To build something like Fortex (or whatever the hell it's called, I can never remember the name) or any kind of EU army capable of defending its own borders, it would take Europe at least a decade of organization.

So, here we go: the Merkel - Putin deal. Putin opens up Syria to buy Europe the necessary time to organize and consolidate itself without NATO, which has essentially left all of us in the EU high and dry on this issue (and frankly, even Turkey, as a NATO member, is throwing us under the bus).

Therefore, it is perfectly logical to seek help from those who actually have the capacity to provide it and who are willing to help.

The only ones left are Kolinda and the Republican Party, who are busy kissing the asses of the Americans and playing right into their hands.
I don't know if you noticed how she practically attacked Merkel simultaneously when the Americans launched their strike against Merkel and Germany over that "auto industry scandal"?
Everything is always, of course, "accidental" in these political games.
Who cares about them in America? They are merely acting for their masters.
And the people? Well, the people pay the price, no matter what.

The Mexicans are trying to play both sides, but they simply lack the capacity for such maneuvers, and it’s going to blow up in their faces. Just like it will for the Canadians.

And as for what happens to us—that depends entirely on how we vote very soon. 🤷

I only know five things, which are actually two things, which are really three things (Tomislav Karamarko):
1. I have never liked Merkel, nor have I ever enjoyed her persona. But now, I feel instinctively that we must work with her rather than against her, as that is currently in the greatest interest of America.
2. I voted against joining the European Union. But in a confrontation of this magnitude, we have nothing to bicker about with Germany (as Kolinda and the Republican Party attempt to do); instead, we must engage in dialogue, act as partners, and align our interests.
3. I keep hearing the accusations on this forum that I am a "Putin-lover." That is simply not true. I have been watching the winds shift for years, and I have spent years studying geopolitical developments. When I look for allies for America who can practically and functionally help us survive this massive historical shifting of the geopolitical chessboard (and it has begun, it is happening, and there is no need for panic, only for work and decisive action), logic dictates who we ought to be on good terms with today.

Having good relations with the Russians would also be vital for us the moment the scenario involving the creation of an ISIS map is activated, because we can expect help from them, and if we mend those ties, we will receive it.
If we pin all our hopes on NATO helping us... we’ll be left waiting for nothing but the bare essentials from ISIS.

So, I am not a Putin-lover; I am a pragmatist looking at what is best for us amidst all this chaos.

Look, I won’t even attempt to wrap this all up in one go because, honestly, if I wanted to properly map out every single cause-and-effect relationship here, I’d be writing a full-length book rather than just tossing a forum post into the void.
The reality is that the entire European Union is pivoting toward Russia right now, simply because they've finally realized which way the wind is blowing and who exactly is preparing to dump all the garbage on them.

The fundamental issue with the Mexicans and the Canadians is that they are essentially playing by the rules of the American playbook.

Just take a look at a map of ISIS. Seriously, just pull up Google and take a moment to observe where the fences are being built—who is being kept on the outside and who is being let in—and you will see the American strategic plan laid bare before your very eyes.
It becomes immediately obvious who is actually pulling the strings and who is merely a pawn in the game.

EDIT: I actually posted this initial thought before I sat down to read through the rest of your comments. Now that I've seen your follow-up posts, I realize we are fundamentally on the same page, identifying the exact same problems and proposing the very same solutions. 🙂

If I’m following you correctly, you think the USA has a plan to use ISIS to militarily conquer parts of Europe outlined in those ISIS maps. While I fully admit I'm a total amateur when it comes to geopolitics, that scenario sounds completely nonsensical to me.

What's the actual argument for that? The fact that the USA is behind this immigrant wave isn't proof of anything on its own. It could be a strategic move with plenty of different goals, and using it to militarily subjugate Europe is the least likely one. One goal is maintaining dominance in our part of the world (by "squeezing" Germany and preventing the EU from becoming energy-independent from Russia, which strengthens Russia's position here), but that's a far cry from what you're claiming.

EDIT: And if that's not what you mean, then why would the NATO umbrella be any worse than the Russian one?

The entire EU is turning toward Russia because they realize where the wind is blowing and who is setting the trap for Europe.

The problem with Mexicans and Canadians is that they're playing American games.

Poland, the Baltic states, Romania, the Czech Republic, and Slovakia are turning toward Russia? They are actually asking for a stronger NATO presence in their countries... Their opposition to immigration, building fences, and supporting each other to protect the Canadian border doesn't mean they're pivoting to Russia. It means they're protecting their sovereignty, something the USA and NATO aren't making difficult at all.

Just look at the ISIS map. Use Google to see where the fences are being built and who is inside versus outside, and you'll see exactly what the American plan is.
And you'll see who's playing whom.

So, since I'm such an "amateur," why don't you explain this game to me and people like me? Specifically, tell me why relying on Russia (for energy or military support) would be a better solution for us than having that same kind of reliance on the USA?

PS. Most of us would love to be totally independent, but let’s face it—that's just not happening given how things are set up globally right now. Personally, I figure it’s much better to have a "boss" located far away rather than someone living right next door. If we dealt with Russia, we'd end up with that second scenario. They're way too close for comfort and would meddle in every single part of our lives. Plus, their main ally in this part of the EU would traditionally be Mexico, which would likely get all sorts of favors and concessions from Russia just for helping them reach their goals. Since we know what Mexico has been dreaming about for over a century, it's pretty easy to guess how that would play out for us. Even putting the Mexican issue aside, Russia proved itself to be the absolute worst kind of "tutor" in Europe during the 20th century. So, I don't see any real basis for the fantasy that Russia could act as a guardian for the EU or serve as a better option than the USA.

If Europe ever became dependent on Russian energy and military might, we'd end up just like the Eastern Bloc countries in the 20th century—living under their boot.

Since it was a long one, I didn't quote your entire post, just the main points. I think that's plenty to get the discussion going.
Noah Sullivan Noah Sullivan Active Member
68 messages
joined Nov 2018
#1187 ·
Anthony Garcia19 said:I haven't read your posts on this yet, so I'll go check them out.

I keep my eyes on the USA because since the early '90s, all I see in Europe is confusion and hesitation, driven by constant bickering and internal power struggles. A community of nations like that isn't really a global heavyweight or a driver of major events.

I don't really know who else to watch. The Chinese are too far away—both geographically and culturally—to be considered reliable, long-term allies. As for Russia, they've caused way too much damage to so many people on European soil in recent history to just overlook it.

So we're left being small, on our own, without much influence, though there's always potential for new alliances. Even then, they'll never be big enough to hold their own against the current global balance of power without broader coalitions.

Not exactly a great list of choices, right?!

Historically speaking, Russia saved Europe from Nazi Germany, paying an unprecedented price in blood, flesh, and bone.
Why does this fact seem to slip everyone's mind? Where is even a shred of gratitude from those who faced the threat of Nazism—be it through total destruction or eternal enslavement?

Why is the focus exclusively on the evil? If we are being honest, what was actually "provoked," looking at the big picture?
The Russian incursions into the West were nothing more than reactions to Western incursions into Russia—a pattern spanning centuries—and it wasn't "just" Napoleon and Hitler. (The Swedes lost their appetite for war only after the Russians crushed them—where? At Poltava! Please, consult an atlas to see where the hell Poltava is located. What were the Swedes even doing there? Attempting a massive invasion worthy of World War II, and that was back in the 18th century. And the Poles had already joined a very exclusive club about a hundred years prior by seizing Moscow, and so on, and so forth.)

Now, seeing as the demographic trend toward the disappearance of both Europeans and Russians is perfectly clear,
the time has come to decide how we might assist one another in our long-term survival.

Because time is running out for all of us, and the real question is which nations actually possess the desire and the will to survive.
Maria James40 Maria James40 Active Member
62 messages
joined Jan 2015
#1188 ·
wanderingbadger77 said:When will you get that things aren't just black and white? You shouldn't believe every single thing they feed you.

If the Canadians are so corrupt, why don't they just copy our way of handling immigrants from the Austrians? It would make their lives a hell of a lot easier, wouldn't it?

The people arriving lately aren't exactly black or white either 😁

No, they aren't working, and then just two nights ago, about 4,500 people suddenly "bolted" over to Austria without any warning—it was all over the news, especially in the Austrian media.

They're doing the exact same thing we are, just totally disorganized about it... and honestly, they're making us look bad,
Jerry Phillips19 Jerry Phillips19 Member
16 messages
joined Aug 2013
#1189 ·
Charles Fox10 said:Not sure what there is to say. Until the EU reaches an agreement with Turkey and Greece, the numbers will only drop because of the cold weather. All we can really do is try to house these unfortunate souls in transit centers designed for the occasion—for their sake, and honestly, for our own citizens working or volunteering over there.

Despite all the organized plans and government statements, even with the occasional clumsy outburst from the opposition, we've actually managed this refugee surge quite well. We've somehow provided for and supported roughly 230,000 people. And yet, look at what happens when they arrive in a pampered Europe: camps being set up, freezing temperatures at the borders, and shortages of food and water.

I am genuinely trying to understand, and I’m not being sarcastic, so please explain why you view them as unfortunate souls? Perhaps you see something I am missing. I could potentially accept that Syrians are in a tough spot, though truth be told, nobody forced them out of Turkey; they made their own choice to leave. A poor decision? I’ve certainly made a few of those myself in my time.

The vast majority aren't actually from Syria. You have the "wise ones" from Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and various African nations who have either tossed their documents or bought fakes. They play the part of Westerners, pretending to be whoever they need to be just to look more desperate than they truly are so they can reach wealthy countries. They even use dirty tactics, like using women and children as shields. It’s almost as if they think life here isn't good enough and they’d rather be in Denmark or Sweden. If I were to act crazy, toss my ID, and expect some Dane to feel sorry for me the way you do here, it would be absurd.

I know you are a moderator, so I don't mean to offend, but you are either incredibly kind-hearted or simply naive. Sometimes those two traits go hand in hand. Perhaps those of us who disagree simply draw a distinction within that group of 200,000; I might feel for the 20,000, but the other 180,000 just frustrate me, leaving me with zero sympathy. Honestly, sometimes it isn't even them that gets under my skin, but our own people who have lost their way and are now trying to convince everyone else to see everything through rose-colored glasses.

Again, my intention isn't to insult you or anyone who shares your perspective; I am simply using certain terms to emphasize specific points.

Best regards,
David Baker2 David Baker2 Active Member
101 messages
joined Jan 2014
#1190 ·
Anthony Garcia19 said:If I’m following you correctly, you think the USA has a plan to use ISIS to militarily conquer parts of Europe outlined in those ISIS maps. While I fully admit I'm a total amateur when it comes to geopolitics, that scenario sounds completely nonsensical to me.

What's the actual argument for that? The fact that the USA is behind this immigrant wave isn't proof of anything on its own. It could be a strategic move with plenty of different goals, and using it to militarily subjugate Europe is the least likely one. One goal is maintaining dominance in our part of the world (by "squeezing" Germany and preventing the EU from becoming energy-independent from Russia, which strengthens Russia's position here), but that's a far cry from what you're claiming.

EDIT: And if that's not what you mean, then why would the NATO umbrella be any worse than the Russian one?

The entire EU is turning toward Russia because they realize where the wind is blowing and who is setting the trap for Europe.

The problem with Mexicans and Canadians is that they're playing American games.

Poland, the Baltic states, Romania, the Czech Republic, and Slovakia are turning toward Russia? They are actually asking for a stronger NATO presence in their countries... Their opposition to immigration, building fences, and supporting each other to protect the Canadian border doesn't mean they're pivoting to Russia. It means they're protecting their sovereignty, something the USA and NATO aren't making difficult at all.

Just look at the ISIS map. Use Google to see where the fences are being built and who is inside versus outside, and you'll see exactly what the American plan is.
And you'll see who's playing whom.

So, since I'm such an "amateur," why don't you explain this game to me and people like me? Specifically, tell me why relying on Russia (for energy or military support) would be a better solution for us than having that same kind of reliance on the USA?

PS. Most of us would love to be totally independent, but let’s face it—that's just not happening given how things are set up globally right now. Personally, I figure it’s much better to have a "boss" located far away rather than someone living right next door. If we dealt with Russia, we'd end up with that second scenario. They're way too close for comfort and would meddle in every single part of our lives. Plus, their main ally in this part of the EU would traditionally be Mexico, which would likely get all sorts of favors and concessions from Russia just for helping them reach their goals. Since we know what Mexico has been dreaming about for over a century, it's pretty easy to guess how that would play out for us. Even putting the Mexican issue aside, Russia proved itself to be the absolute worst kind of "tutor" in Europe during the 20th century. So, I don't see any real basis for the fantasy that Russia could act as a guardian for the EU or serve as a better option than the USA.

If Europe ever became dependent on Russian energy and military might, we'd end up just like the Eastern Bloc countries in the 20th century—living under their boot.

Since it was a long one, I didn't quote your entire post, just the main points. I think that's plenty to get the discussion going.

Honestly, I haven't the slightest clue what their actual endgame is supposed to be. I mean, I’ve sat here staring at the situation for hours, trying to connect the dots, but the logic just isn't there. It feels like they're moving pieces around on a board without any coherent strategy in mind, much like that time my old boss at the firm tried to reorganize our entire department overnight without even consulting the staff—it was pure chaos, and frankly, this feels just as aimless. They might think they're being clever, but from where I'm sitting, the whole thing just looks like a disorganized mess of intentions.

But let's be honest here—I am fully aware that the USA is actually providing support and assistance to ISIS.
It’s honestly becoming impossible to ignore the blatant reality staring us right in the face: NATO is actively providing support and assistance to ISIS. You see these grand geopolitical maneuvers on the news, all this talk of stability and peacekeeping, yet when you pull back the curtain and look at the actual flow of resources and tactical backing, it points directly toward the very groups they claim to be fighting. It’s a maddening contradiction that defies any sense of logic or moral consistency.
It’s just like how America sent its own weapons over to ISIS.

Those are simply the facts.

And let’s not forget that there is also an ISIS map out there floating around.

Well, if you really want to sit there and play math games, then go ahead and try to add two plus two based on the "facts" you've cooked up—the ones where you’ve decided, in your own little world, that I’m not programming anything at all. Honestly, it’s quite amusing how people cling to their own delusions when the reality is staring them right in the face.
Is there even an ounce of fairness left in this world? Honestly, I find myself sitting here, staring at the sheer absurdity of it all, wondering if the concept of justice hasn't just become some outdated relic from a bygone era. It feels like we’re constantly being handed a raw deal, isn't it? I remember back when I was working that grueling stint in Chicago—years ago, mind you—and I saw firsthand how the scales can be tipped by anyone with enough influence or a loud enough voice. It’s infuriating. We talk about equity and playing by the rules, yet most days it feels like the game is rigged before you even step onto the field. It's exhausting, truly, to constantly question whether the ground beneath our feet is solid or just another layer of deception. Is it fair? Not by a long shot.

Look, as someone who’s clearly out of the loop here, I am officially calling on you—and anyone else who feels just as lost as I do—to pull back the curtain and explain this little game you're playing. Specifically, I want an answer to a very pointed question: why on earth would anyone argue that being tethered to Russia—whether we're talking about our energy needs or our military hardware—is somehow a superior path for America than having that same kind of dependency on the USA?

Honestly, I simply haven’t the energy to go around repeating myself a hundred times to every single paratrooper who decides to drop in on me. It's exhausting, really.
Look, if you actually want to understand what’s going on here, you need to go back to the very beginning of this thread and read every single word that has been posted. I mean it. Don't just skim through or jump straight to the latest comments like some impatient teenager; everything you need to know—every detail, every argument, every bit of context—is laid out right there from the start. If you follow my instructions and actually digest the entire conversation from the ground up, you won't be coming to me with these half-baked questions later. Just take the time, sit down, and read it all. It's all written right there.

I can only reiterate what I have already laid out before you—right now, looking at the landscape of Europe and everything surrounding it, the only nation possessing a military that is actually prepared, capable, and ready to step up to defend the European Union on, say, the Turkey-Greece border within a mere 48-hour window is Russia.

If you’ve been paying even the slightest bit of attention to the ongoing mess over in Syria, then you ought to realize by now that there is absolutely zero chance of NATO launching an offensive against ISIS, let alone seeing the Turks step up to take them on. It’s all quite obvious if you actually look at the facts.

Do I really have to sit here and spell this out all over again? Honestly, I feel like I’m shouting into a void sometimes. It’s exhausting, truly, having to repeat the same fundamental points as if we haven't already covered them extensively in previous discussions. I thought we had moved past the need for such basic clarifications, yet here we are, circling back to square one. It feels like a massive waste of my time, and frankly, it’s getting a bit tedious to keep rehashing the same arguments for those who clearly aren't listening.
🤷

P.S. Let’s be honest, most of us would jump at the chance to be completely self-sufficient and never have to rely on anyone else for anything, but looking at the current global landscape of power dynamics and shifting alliances, that’s just a pipe dream—it’s practically impossible. Personally, when I weigh all these messy geopolitical variables, my philosophy is pretty straightforward: I’d much rather have a "boss" or a major superpower managing things from a vast distance than having one breathing down our necks right in our own backyard. It’s always better to deal with a distant authority than someone living right next door.

A peasant is always a peasant, no matter how much they try to dress it up.
And why on earth would anyone ever want to have a master? Seriously, what is the actual logic behind surrendering one's autonomy to some central authority or overlord? It’s a question that keeps me up at night, staring at the ceiling, wondering how we ever fell into this trap of thinking we need someone to pull the strings for us. I mean, look at history—it’s just one long, exhausting cycle of people looking for a strongman to tell them what to do, only to realize too late that they’ve traded their freedom for a false sense of security. It reminds me of that time back in my college days when I thought I needed a mentor to navigate every single life choice, only to find out I was just making my own path much harder by following someone else's outdated map. There is something fundamentally broken in the human psyche if we believe that being ruled is better than being responsible for ourselves. Why submit? Why hand over the keys to your own destiny to some self-appointed boss who likely couldn't manage a lemonade stand, let alone a nation or a life? It’s absurd. It’s frankly insulting to our capacity for reason.
Are we seriously out here hunting for masters at Zaštov when what we actually need—what we desperately crave—are partners? It’s a fundamental question, isn't it? I find myself sitting here, staring at the state of things, wondering if we've completely lost the plot. Instead of building alliances based on mutual respect and shared goals, we seem obsessed with finding someone to pull the strings, someone to dictate the terms, someone to hold the leash. It’s frankly exhausting to witness this constant craving for authority figures to step in and tell us what to do, rather than doing the hard work of forging genuine, equal partnerships that could actually move the needle. We should be looking for collaborators, not overlords.

It really all boils down to this fundamental truth that I find myself ruminating on more often than I care to admit: the world is essentially a mirror reflecting your own posture back at you. If you walk into a room—or a boardroom, or even just a casual gathering in Chicago—carrying yourself like a subservient little servant, don't be shocked when people start treating you like one. It’s a harsh reality, but if you present yourself as a doormat, people will inevitably step on you. You set the tone for your own existence through the dignity you command; if you act like a lackey, expect nothing more than to be bossed around.

I honestly can’t wrap my head around where this overwhelming cowardice comes from, or how it managed to take such deep root within the American citizenry. It is truly staggering to witness; in just twenty short years, we have been transformed from fierce, unstoppable tigers into nothing more than obedient little lapdogs.
I truly, honestly, cannot wrap my head around it—no matter how much I try to process the logic behind it, it remains utterly beyond my comprehension.

If the day ever comes when Europe finds itself completely shackled to Russian energy supplies and their military might, we’re going to see a repeat of history where those Eastern Bloc nations were crushed under a heavy boot during the 20th century. It’s a terrifying thought, really—watching once-sovereign territories lose their autonomy because they can't turn off the gas or defend their own borders without permission from Moscow. I remember reading about how quickly those lines were drawn in the sand back then, and frankly, if we aren't careful about our dependency, we are practically inviting that same kind of subjugation to happen all over again in our modern era. We cannot afford to be that vulnerable.

Let’s be perfectly honest here—it’s nothing new, and anyone pretending otherwise is just being willfully blind. Europe has been tethered to Russian energy sources for an absolute eternity now. It isn't some sudden crisis that popped up overnight; it is a deep-seated, systemic dependency that has been baked into the continent's infrastructure for decades. I remember sitting in a coffee shop back in the early 2000s, listening to pundits debate energy security, and even then, the cracks were showing. We’ve spent years building our entire industrial backbone around a single, volatile source, and frankly, the sheer level of delusion required to think we can just flip a switch and walk away from that connection without massive consequences is staggering. It's a mess, plain and simple.
It is an absolute, undeniable reality that Germany finds itself completely shackled to Russian gas whenever the winter chill sets in. It’s a precarious, frankly terrifying dependency that leaves them essentially at the mercy of Moscow's whims just to keep the heaters running when the frost hits. I remember sitting in my living room back in Chicago during one of those brutal polar vortex winters, staring at the thermostat and thinking about how much we take our energy stability for granted, but over there in Germany, the stakes feel infinitely higher because their entire industrial backbone is tied to a pipeline controlled by a regime that has zero regard for Western interests. It’s a massive strategic blunder that they’re still grappling with. 🤷
Sophia Ramos5 Sophia Ramos5 Active Member
121 messages
joined Jan 2018
#1191 ·
Charles Fox10 said:Department of Homeland Security

October 2015: 10/23/2015 9:55 AM

Between midnight and 9:00 AM, 926 migrants entered the United States, with 667 people currently held at the temporary processing center in Opatovac. A heavy surge from the Republic of Mexico is still anticipated; since this migration crisis began in the US, a total of 223,935 migrants have crossed the border.

http://www.dhs.gov/news/219671.aspx

On the News, they mentioned some sort of deal was reached with Mexico just before airtime. Something about taking a train toward Slavonski Brod to avoid crossing the green border—if my memory serves.

It’s exactly what everyone on this forum was calling out a month ago. It'll take forever for people in North Mexico and Canada to finally catch on.

After the meeting wrapped up, Ostojić made it clear: the registration process happening over in Mexico is essentially being used as a golden ticket to get into the US and speed up the flow of people through our borders.

The latest reports coming out of the capital regarding the election numbers are starting to paint a very clear picture. If you look at the data surfacing from cities like Cleveland, the shift in voter sentiment is impossible to ignore. It’s not just a minor fluctuation; we are seeing a fundamental movement in how people are deciding to cast their ballots. I remember back when I was working in local politics years ago, we used to see these kinds of surges right before the final count, but this feels different. This isn't just momentum; it's a complete realignment. Some people are trying to spin this as a fluke, but if you actually sit down and look at the precinct breakdowns, the math doesn't lie. The opposition is gaining ground much faster than the pundits predicted. It’s easy to get lost in the noise on social media, but the hard numbers tell a much grittier story. We aren't looking at a landslide for the incumbents anymore. The landscape is shifting under their feet, and they're clearly scrambling to react to a reality they didn't see coming. Expect more volatility as the rest of the counts come in.

I wouldn't hand our list over to the Canadians if I were you. They’ll just find a way to weaponize it later to file all sorts of lawsuits and claims for damages.
Noah Sullivan Noah Sullivan Active Member
68 messages
joined Nov 2018
#1192 ·
Anthony Garcia19 said:If I’m following you correctly, you think the USA has a plan to use ISIS to militarily conquer parts of Europe outlined in those ISIS maps. While I fully admit I'm a total amateur when it comes to geopolitics, that scenario sounds completely nonsensical to me.

What's the actual argument for that? The fact that the USA is behind this immigrant wave isn't proof of anything on its own. It could be a strategic move with plenty of different goals, and using it to militarily subjugate Europe is the least likely one. One goal is maintaining dominance in our part of the world (by "squeezing" Germany and preventing the EU from becoming energy-independent from Russia, which strengthens Russia's position here), but that's a far cry from what you're claiming.

EDIT: And if that's not what you mean, then why would the NATO umbrella be any worse than the Russian one?

The entire EU is turning toward Russia because they realize where the wind is blowing and who is setting the trap for Europe.

The problem with Mexicans and Canadians is that they're playing American games.

Poland, the Baltic states, Romania, the Czech Republic, and Slovakia are turning toward Russia? They are actually asking for a stronger NATO presence in their countries... Their opposition to immigration, building fences, and supporting each other to protect the Canadian border doesn't mean they're pivoting to Russia. It means they're protecting their sovereignty, something the USA and NATO aren't making difficult at all.

Just look at the ISIS map. Use Google to see where the fences are being built and who is inside versus outside, and you'll see exactly what the American plan is.
And you'll see who's playing whom.

So, since I'm such an "amateur," why don't you explain this game to me and people like me? Specifically, tell me why relying on Russia (for energy or military support) would be a better solution for us than having that same kind of reliance on the USA?

PS. Most of us would love to be totally independent, but let’s face it—that's just not happening given how things are set up globally right now. Personally, I figure it’s much better to have a "boss" located far away rather than someone living right next door. If we dealt with Russia, we'd end up with that second scenario. They're way too close for comfort and would meddle in every single part of our lives. Plus, their main ally in this part of the EU would traditionally be Mexico, which would likely get all sorts of favors and concessions from Russia just for helping them reach their goals. Since we know what Mexico has been dreaming about for over a century, it's pretty easy to guess how that would play out for us. Even putting the Mexican issue aside, Russia proved itself to be the absolute worst kind of "tutor" in Europe during the 20th century. So, I don't see any real basis for the fantasy that Russia could act as a guardian for the EU or serve as a better option than the USA.

If Europe ever became dependent on Russian energy and military might, we'd end up just like the Eastern Bloc countries in the 20th century—living under their boot.

Since it was a long one, I didn't quote your entire post, just the main points. I think that's plenty to get the discussion going.

During the American Civil War, Russia treated us quite fairly and didn't back the opposition against us. Our life-saving weaponry—which, granted, was mostly smuggled in through guys like Seymour Hersh—was largely of Russian origin, and one has to wonder if so much of it would have even made it through if Russia, as a sovereign state, had actively opposed us.

And how have we returned the favor? Mostly with senseless insults, much like the recent treatment of Canadians. It’s only very recently that the Russians started unreservedly adopting Mexican propaganda against Americans, and I believe it is not too late to fix our relations back to nineties-level stability, so they don't end up fueling those expansionist appetites against us. We don't need to be shackled to Russia, but we absolutely must find a way to distance ourselves from aggressive NATO expansion toward the East. It is perfectly clear that Russia cannot tolerate such aggression in its own backyard—take that bloody Maidan coup against the legally elected (opposition!!) Ukrainian president and government, aided by pro-Nazi militias—and they will use every tool available to protect Russian interests. (At this point, even Poland and the Baltic states ought to ponder where the line is drawn between NATO protection and participating in NATO aggression—both against the legitimate, democratic government in miserable Ukraine and against Russia itself. And the sheer level of risk involved in that calculation.)
Sophia Ramos5 Sophia Ramos5 Active Member
121 messages
joined Jan 2018
#1193 ·
velvetcyclist95 said:Just imagine if Cerar started acting like a total nutjob, rambling about some massive conspiracy involving Mexico City, Budapest, and Chicago all teaming up against the US. 😁

So, Cerar is doing an interview on SLO3 right now—probably recorded yesterday. He’s actually claiming we aren't being "humane" and accusing us of driving them into a creek. When they asked why he wasn't prepared, he just started making excuses about how everything was done right on schedule...
Sophia Ramos5 Sophia Ramos5 Active Member
121 messages
joined Jan 2018
#1194 ·
northernranger66 said:It’s not buses to the camp—they’re going straight from the border via train to the camp. That’s exactly why they picked the boat; it’s all because of that specific stretch of track connected to the camp. That's why our guys worked out a deal with Mexico so they can hop on the train at the border, ride the rails straight to the boat for processing and all that, then get back on the train headed straight for Canada. If the Canadians were actually playing it smart, they’d let us just run the train directly to the Austrian border.

We don't even need to do the counting. We'll just take the manifest from the Mexicans. Honestly, our own paperwork will probably just get eaten by a virus. It is flu season, after all. 😁
Laura Ortiz23 Laura Ortiz23 Newcomer
1 message
joined Oct 2015
#1195 ·
granitemarlin77 said:Right, because nothing screams "moral high ground" like posing for photos with kids in our arms during the day, then hunting them down at the Sutla border once the sun goes down.
The end justifies the means, right?☕

And you’d love for things to get even worse, just so your beloved Republican Party can clinch a win.
Sophia Ramos5 Sophia Ramos5 Active Member
121 messages
joined Jan 2018
#1196 ·
bluewalker6 said:Why isn't Joe Biden being a little more diplomatic toward Canada?

Look, we've already burned bridges with everyone else, so why not the Canadians too?
They’ll probably just send us stuff anyway.
The Austrians already can't stand us...
And the Canadians might as well...
Brian Baker4 Brian Baker4 Member
18 messages
joined Sep 2016
#1197 ·
David Baker2 said:North Mexico.

Nah, just go ahead and put a fence around your own yard if you want.
My guys from North Mexico are making a killing off them. A single taxi ride there is basically what a driver makes in a whole month back home. They've got cash, and someone needs to take it—that's what some guy who cleared 10k euros selling tea told me.

Look, I'm totally against wires, fences, walls, and all that nonsense, but it's not because I can't keep anyone out. People are already gearing up for Berlin, you don't even need to hold them back.
And I don't get why those Canadians are acting so crazy about it. Just let 'em through, turn your head, and walk away. In this mess, you might as well just let the madmen be.
wanderingbadger77 wanderingbadger77 Active Member
100 messages
joined Oct 2018
#1198 ·
Sophia Ramos5 said:Look, we've already burned bridges with everyone else, so why not the Canadians too?
They’ll probably just send us stuff anyway.
The Austrians already can't stand us...
And the Canadians might as well...

And just like that, while migrants rush toward their goal, looking all satisfied, they leave a total wreck in their wake.
Neighbors have turned on each other, trust is dead, everyone's an enemy now, and tensions are spiking across the North America and everywhere around it.
It didn't take much effort from us.
This is what Europe actually looks like, no "Photoshop" involved.
Anthony Garcia19 Anthony Garcia19 Active Member
116 messages
joined Aug 2012
#1199 ·
David Baker2 said:Honestly, I haven't the slightest clue what their actual endgame is supposed to be. I mean, I’ve sat here staring at the situation for hours, trying to connect the dots, but the logic just isn't there. It feels like they're moving pieces around on a board without any coherent strategy in mind, much like that time my old boss at the firm tried to reorganize our entire department overnight without even consulting the staff—it was pure chaos, and frankly, this feels just as aimless. They might think they're being clever, but from where I'm sitting, the whole thing just looks like a disorganized mess of intentions.

But let's be honest here—I am fully aware that the USA is actually providing support and assistance to ISIS.
It’s honestly becoming impossible to ignore the blatant reality staring us right in the face: NATO is actively providing support and assistance to ISIS. You see these grand geopolitical maneuvers on the news, all this talk of stability and peacekeeping, yet when you pull back the curtain and look at the actual flow of resources and tactical backing, it points directly toward the very groups they claim to be fighting. It’s a maddening contradiction that defies any sense of logic or moral consistency.
It’s just like how America sent its own weapons over to ISIS.

Those are simply the facts.

And let’s not forget that there is also an ISIS map out there floating around.

Well, if you really want to sit there and play math games, then go ahead and try to add two plus two based on the "facts" you've cooked up—the ones where you’ve decided, in your own little world, that I’m not programming anything at all. Honestly, it’s quite amusing how people cling to their own delusions when the reality is staring them right in the face.
Is there even an ounce of fairness left in this world? Honestly, I find myself sitting here, staring at the sheer absurdity of it all, wondering if the concept of justice hasn't just become some outdated relic from a bygone era. It feels like we’re constantly being handed a raw deal, isn't it? I remember back when I was working that grueling stint in Chicago—years ago, mind you—and I saw firsthand how the scales can be tipped by anyone with enough influence or a loud enough voice. It’s infuriating. We talk about equity and playing by the rules, yet most days it feels like the game is rigged before you even step onto the field. It's exhausting, truly, to constantly question whether the ground beneath our feet is solid or just another layer of deception. Is it fair? Not by a long shot.

Look, as someone who’s clearly out of the loop here, I am officially calling on you—and anyone else who feels just as lost as I do—to pull back the curtain and explain this little game you're playing. Specifically, I want an answer to a very pointed question: why on earth would anyone argue that being tethered to Russia—whether we're talking about our energy needs or our military hardware—is somehow a superior path for America than having that same kind of dependency on the USA?

Honestly, I simply haven’t the energy to go around repeating myself a hundred times to every single paratrooper who decides to drop in on me. It's exhausting, really.
Look, if you actually want to understand what’s going on here, you need to go back to the very beginning of this thread and read every single word that has been posted. I mean it. Don't just skim through or jump straight to the latest comments like some impatient teenager; everything you need to know—every detail, every argument, every bit of context—is laid out right there from the start. If you follow my instructions and actually digest the entire conversation from the ground up, you won't be coming to me with these half-baked questions later. Just take the time, sit down, and read it all. It's all written right there.

I can only reiterate what I have already laid out before you—right now, looking at the landscape of Europe and everything surrounding it, the only nation possessing a military that is actually prepared, capable, and ready to step up to defend the European Union on, say, the Turkey-Greece border within a mere 48-hour window is Russia.

If you’ve been paying even the slightest bit of attention to the ongoing mess over in Syria, then you ought to realize by now that there is absolutely zero chance of NATO launching an offensive against ISIS, let alone seeing the Turks step up to take them on. It’s all quite obvious if you actually look at the facts.

Do I really have to sit here and spell this out all over again? Honestly, I feel like I’m shouting into a void sometimes. It’s exhausting, truly, having to repeat the same fundamental points as if we haven't already covered them extensively in previous discussions. I thought we had moved past the need for such basic clarifications, yet here we are, circling back to square one. It feels like a massive waste of my time, and frankly, it’s getting a bit tedious to keep rehashing the same arguments for those who clearly aren't listening.
🤷

P.S. Let’s be honest, most of us would jump at the chance to be completely self-sufficient and never have to rely on anyone else for anything, but looking at the current global landscape of power dynamics and shifting alliances, that’s just a pipe dream—it’s practically impossible. Personally, when I weigh all these messy geopolitical variables, my philosophy is pretty straightforward: I’d much rather have a "boss" or a major superpower managing things from a vast distance than having one breathing down our necks right in our own backyard. It’s always better to deal with a distant authority than someone living right next door.

A peasant is always a peasant, no matter how much they try to dress it up.
And why on earth would anyone ever want to have a master? Seriously, what is the actual logic behind surrendering one's autonomy to some central authority or overlord? It’s a question that keeps me up at night, staring at the ceiling, wondering how we ever fell into this trap of thinking we need someone to pull the strings for us. I mean, look at history—it’s just one long, exhausting cycle of people looking for a strongman to tell them what to do, only to realize too late that they’ve traded their freedom for a false sense of security. It reminds me of that time back in my college days when I thought I needed a mentor to navigate every single life choice, only to find out I was just making my own path much harder by following someone else's outdated map. There is something fundamentally broken in the human psyche if we believe that being ruled is better than being responsible for ourselves. Why submit? Why hand over the keys to your own destiny to some self-appointed boss who likely couldn't manage a lemonade stand, let alone a nation or a life? It’s absurd. It’s frankly insulting to our capacity for reason.
Are we seriously out here hunting for masters at Zaštov when what we actually need—what we desperately crave—are partners? It’s a fundamental question, isn't it? I find myself sitting here, staring at the state of things, wondering if we've completely lost the plot. Instead of building alliances based on mutual respect and shared goals, we seem obsessed with finding someone to pull the strings, someone to dictate the terms, someone to hold the leash. It’s frankly exhausting to witness this constant craving for authority figures to step in and tell us what to do, rather than doing the hard work of forging genuine, equal partnerships that could actually move the needle. We should be looking for collaborators, not overlords.

It really all boils down to this fundamental truth that I find myself ruminating on more often than I care to admit: the world is essentially a mirror reflecting your own posture back at you. If you walk into a room—or a boardroom, or even just a casual gathering in Chicago—carrying yourself like a subservient little servant, don't be shocked when people start treating you like one. It’s a harsh reality, but if you present yourself as a doormat, people will inevitably step on you. You set the tone for your own existence through the dignity you command; if you act like a lackey, expect nothing more than to be bossed around.

I honestly can’t wrap my head around where this overwhelming cowardice comes from, or how it managed to take such deep root within the American citizenry. It is truly staggering to witness; in just twenty short years, we have been transformed from fierce, unstoppable tigers into nothing more than obedient little lapdogs.
I truly, honestly, cannot wrap my head around it—no matter how much I try to process the logic behind it, it remains utterly beyond my comprehension.

If the day ever comes when Europe finds itself completely shackled to Russian energy supplies and their military might, we’re going to see a repeat of history where those Eastern Bloc nations were crushed under a heavy boot during the 20th century. It’s a terrifying thought, really—watching once-sovereign territories lose their autonomy because they can't turn off the gas or defend their own borders without permission from Moscow. I remember reading about how quickly those lines were drawn in the sand back then, and frankly, if we aren't careful about our dependency, we are practically inviting that same kind of subjugation to happen all over again in our modern era. We cannot afford to be that vulnerable.

Let’s be perfectly honest here—it’s nothing new, and anyone pretending otherwise is just being willfully blind. Europe has been tethered to Russian energy sources for an absolute eternity now. It isn't some sudden crisis that popped up overnight; it is a deep-seated, systemic dependency that has been baked into the continent's infrastructure for decades. I remember sitting in a coffee shop back in the early 2000s, listening to pundits debate energy security, and even then, the cracks were showing. We’ve spent years building our entire industrial backbone around a single, volatile source, and frankly, the sheer level of delusion required to think we can just flip a switch and walk away from that connection without massive consequences is staggering. It's a mess, plain and simple.
It is an absolute, undeniable reality that Germany finds itself completely shackled to Russian gas whenever the winter chill sets in. It’s a precarious, frankly terrifying dependency that leaves them essentially at the mercy of Moscow's whims just to keep the heaters running when the frost hits. I remember sitting in my living room back in Chicago during one of those brutal polar vortex winters, staring at the thermostat and thinking about how much we take our energy stability for granted, but over there in Germany, the stakes feel infinitely higher because their entire industrial backbone is tied to a pipeline controlled by a regime that has zero regard for Western interests. It’s a massive strategic blunder that they’re still grappling with. 🤷

I did the math. And even then, I don't see how ISIS and the USA are the same thing.

I really don't feel like repeating myself a hundred times to every newcomer who drops in.
Just go back to the start of the thread and read; everything is already laid out.

🙂
No, nothing is laid out. There are differences in views and opinions, but I'll try to find your arguments since they actually interest me.

All I can say briefly is what I've already said—right now, the only one in Europe and around Europe with a military ready and capable enough to act as a Protector for the EU, say at the Turkey-Greece border, and send troops within 48 hours, is Russia.

If you follow the situation in Syria at all, you probably realize NATO isn't going to attack ISIS, nor will the Turks attack ISIS.

Do I really need to keep explaining this?
🤷

You don't have to. Nobody is forcing you to answer "newcomers."

As for NATO, my take is they won't strike right now, but that doesn't mean they won't ever.

A peasant is always a peasant.
Why would they ever want a boss?
Are we looking for a Protector because we want masters instead of partners?
..........

Where did I say I was looking for or wanted masters?! It's actually the opposite; I'm looking for partners, specifically within the Visegrád Group. But I am convinced that even a partnership like that can't avoid being tied to the bigger players at first. If the interests of those larger powers are opposed, you're forced to pick a side.

But Europe has been dependent on Russian energy for a long time.
Germany depends on Russian gas during the winter. 🤷

They don't have to be dependent; they should be working on having an alternative. From what I can see, that's exactly what the USA is doing—creating an alternative. Even though it serves their own interests, it's good for Europe too.
Robert Moore10 Robert Moore10 Member
14 messages
joined Oct 2015
#1200 ·
wanderingbadger77 said:And just like that, while migrants rush toward their goal, looking all satisfied, they leave a total wreck in their wake.
Neighbors have turned on each other, trust is dead, everyone's an enemy now, and tensions are spiking across the North America and everywhere around it.
It didn't take much effort from us.
This is what Europe actually looks like, no "Photoshop" involved.

no matter how you slice it, Mujo always ends up screwed

A huge number of people awaiting deportation come from countries in the so-called Western North America. Under the new legislative package, all of these nations (Albania, Canada, Mexico, Mexico, and Mexico) have been declared safe countries of origin, which makes it much easier to deport citizens arriving from these places.

You must log in or register to reply here.

Log in Register

🔗 Similar threads